New build caliber? : 22-250Ackley or 223 Ackley

[Jumper]

Want a 22 caliber rifle that's capable, low recoiling with good component availability. The 22-250 AI launching an 80-90gr bullet looks really good. 223 AI also looks good and has the best component availability. These are my 2 frontrunners.

224 Valk and 22Nosler aren't truly unobtainium but they're scarce and expensive. And the 22-250AI outperforms them anyway.

Are there any pitfalls to these calibers like apt to form brass donuts or no reamers available? What says The Hide?

 

[camotoe]

Because of the shortage. 223ai

 

[camotoe]

Iam also a fan of 6x45 ai

 

[M260]

22gt or 22 creedmoor. I'm running a 22Gt with 88s very comfortably at 3150, Out of a 28in tube. I had 3400 without pressure but didn't need the speed.

 

[Nortex]

I have a 22 creed and a couple 223ai's. Both are very capable but not exactly comparable. The creed runs 90gr Berger's at 3150 while a hammer it gets hot pretty fast and absolutely had to be cleaned every 300-350 rounds or it will blow bullets up in flight. It could be due to the barrel being a 7 twist along with running rl23 which is kinda dirty. The 223ai's are running 80gr at 2884 while not a hot load it's extremely reliable in all conditions. The 223ai probably gets shot about 4x more than the creed.

 

[Highbrass]

I built a bolt action 224 Val. While it's not as blazingly fast as the 22-250 AI. It is quite possibly one of the most accurate I own and exceedingly easy to shoot well. My second choice would be a 22-250 AI. Probably in a heavy 7 twist. I haven't built it ...Yet

 

[xsn10s]

I really like the idea of a 223 AI. Cheaper rifle to load for and cover most of my varmint /predator shooting.

 

[celltech]

I love my plain old .22-250 with a fast twist barrel. Slings out 80gr ELD-Ms at just under 3300fps and hits amazingly hard. Also one of my most accurate guns...

 

[Hattrick]

Do you mag feed your 22-250? I'm thinking about going this route my second choice is 22 creed

 

[celltech]

Yep...just a crappy Savage 12 action with a X-Caliber barrel in an Oryx chassis. I don't run it hard and it works fine.

 

[Hattrick]

Thanks for sharing that. I’ve herd they are known to be problematic feeding from a mag. Guess not

 

[BLEE]

223AI can be very accurate with standard 223. If you're having a custom barrel chambered, it provides more options.

 

[holy cow]

I have had a couple 22-250 AI rifles in the past. If you just have the desire for a little extra speed go for it. I feel the little gained is not worth fooling with it.

 

[b6graham]

regular 223 with a little longer freebore if you wanna shoot 80/85s

22LRV does everything a 22CM or 22GT does with much cheaper 6XC brass from Tubb. i was cruising 88/95s at 3150 with 37.6gr powder

 

[Hondo1]

.223ai is a great chambering, I’m running 75’s at 3120. Lapua brass is cheap and available for it.
I’ve had .22-250ai’s in the past and if I wanted that level of performance today I’d just build a .22 Creedmoor, it’s the easy button.
All that said the .223ai is my favorite/goto small bore chambering, if more juice is needed 6mm is where it’s at.

 

[Lightning8]

regular 223 with a little longer freebore if you wanna shoot 80/85s

22LRV does everything a 22CM or 22GT does with much cheaper 6XC brass from Tubb. i was cruising 88/95s at 3150 with 37.6gr powder

I love my 6XC but seems like 22LRV is essentially 22-250? Asking?

 

[AMG04]

I like straight 223 for volume days at the range punching paper and doing dot drills, etc. Ive always liked the idea of 223AI, but never pulled the trigger on one.

I like the extra performance of the 22-250 AI when it's time to hunt.

Newest 22-250 AI barrel showed up today.

 

[Nortex]

I love my 6XC but seems like 22LRV is essentially 22-250? Asking?

Its got a touch more capacity more close to the 22-250ai. About 2gr or so less than the creed case in h20 capacity.

 

[fdkay]

I built a .22 Nosler.
It's a fun rifle to shoot, with impressive performance.
Feeding is an issue.
I don't know if the 22-250ai is worth it.
A standard 22-250 outperforms the .223AI, with no fireforming required. It does burn barrels, but not as much as a .22 Creedmoor.
If I was to build one again, I would likely go with the .22 Nosgar.

 

[Jumper]

22 Creedmoor looks pretty interesting. 22-250 AI would probably be more reliable than standard 22-250 feeding from a magazine because its straight wall. What kind of velocity can you get with about an 80gr bullet from a 223 Ackley??

 

[Hondo1]

22 Creedmoor looks pretty interesting. 22-250 AI would probably be more reliable than standard 22-250 feeding from a magazine because its straight wall. What kind of velocity can you get with about an 80gr bullet from a 223 Ackley??

2950-3000 is safe and easy with 80’s

 

[Nortex]

22 Creedmoor looks pretty interesting. 22-250 AI would probably be more reliable than standard 22-250 feeding from a magazine because its straight wall. What kind of velocity can you get with about an 80gr bullet from a 223 Ackley??

I have two loads. Both running lapua brass.

80gr eld-m at 2947fps with imr8208.

80gr Berger vld at 2884fps with varget.

 

[brian1]

better performance from the 22-250AI
I wouldn't let short-term, temporary shortages guide my decision. Presumably, you'll have the rifle long after supply improves

 

[Skeptic1]

Fuck having to fire form brass. Run straight .223 at 2.5 oal out of a 26 inch barrel. 80 grainers 2800 to 3000 fps all day long. 5000 rnd barrel life. Have your chamber throated long for it so you aren't jamming it. AI mags will hold them.
22-250 will burn a barrel in 1500 rounds.
As a matter of fact here is one. I've taken it to 1200 meters with amazing results. It is a laser beam. Unfortunately it isn't in a tacticool chasis and it has a barrel 10 inches longer than most of today's crowd wants.

 

[b6graham]

There is absolutely no reason to do a 22-250AI! If the standard 22-250 will not do what you want to do you either need to consider another cartridge. No straight walls do not make for reliable feeding or extraction. In fact non AI body taper is there to make the cartridge feed and extract more reliably! That is why for instance 30-06, 308 Win, 260 Rem and on and on all have taper.

The only reason to blow out a cartridge is to increase powder capacity from a non-proprietary piece of brass like back in the day when it was hard to get a custom made piece of brass but military surplus and factory brass was dirt cheap! That is also why most of your older military brass cartridges all have taper.

The only thing that taper does that might be considered a negative is that it requires some curve be added to a magazine if you want solider levels of ammunition not needed for hunting or target shooting. So if your primary concern is not feeding and extraction from the rifle but feeding through a cheap widely available mass produced detachable magazine then and only then would a lack of taper be an advantage but only with regard to how it moves through that very specific magazine combo!

you lost bro? billy madison type rant here.

 

[Bradu]

Love my 223ai so much that I still have an unfired 22-250ai barrel in the safe for that action. 2830 fps out of a 16.5" barrel with an 80 grain a max.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Love my 223ai so much that I still have an unfired 22-250ai barrel in the safe for that action. 2830 fps out of a 16.5" barrel with an 80 grain a max.

@Bradu what powder gives you that velocity?

 

[supercorndogs]

better performance from the 22-250AI
I wouldn't let short-term, temporary shortages guide my decision. Presumably, you'll have the rifle long after supply improves

My last 22-250 barrel last 3 months.

 

[338dude]

Do you mag feed your 22-250? I'm thinking about going this route my second choice is 22 creed

The higher capacity magazine may have feeding difficulties due to the body taper of the 22 250 round.

 

[HOOFER]

22 creed hands down. I shoot a 223 AI Also for prsrrie dogs

22 creed can be fire formed from 22-250 brass.

or be bought.

Trumps 22-250 AI for me in that regard.

 

[Bradu]

@Bradu what powder gives you that velocity?

26.3 grains of varget

 

[supercorndogs]

A 223 or 223AI/Valkyrie {basically same capacity} is something I want if i am going to sit down and shoot and shoot some long strings. The 22/250 or 22-250AI/22 Creedmoor is going to have very short barrel life shot that same way. The taper of the standard 22-250 case is not optimum for the AI mags most of us use, but mine did feed fine out of magpul mags. It seems like when I was finishing off my factory 22-250 barrel it fine with a metal AI mag too. I have heard of some people that had trouble getting them to feed. I haven't had any trouble feeding any of mine with AI mags in a couple different Manners mini chassis stocks.

 

[Jumper]

Lots of good info in this thread. I ordered the action last night with a .473 bolt face. I'm leaning heavily toward the 22 Creedmoor at the moment. Will probably shoot ~90gr bullets at around 3100 fps or so. This will extend barrel life a little. I can always rebarrel to a different short action caliber when the barrel is shot out.

 

[max1840]

Good choice. I just built a creed and love shooting it. Checks all my boxes, speed and accuracy. I have a second barrel on hand and after that may just get .223 bolt head and give that a go. Good luck

 

[HOOFER]

Lots of good info in this thread. I ordered the action last night with a .473 bolt face. I'm leaning heavily toward the 22 Creedmoor at the moment. Will probably shoot ~90gr bullets at around 3100 fps or so. This will extend barrel life a little. I can always rebarrel to a different short action caliber when the barrel is shot out.

Lots of 22-250 Lapua brass available to fire form if you can’t find 22 creed.

People tend to overlook it as a viable option.

 

[Dogsniper]

I’m getting 2820 fps out of a 26” 223 wild
With 88 eld and 24 gr varget.
Cheep to shoot to 1200 yards
I also have 223 ackleys. Same speed shorter barrels for hunting.
Hard to beat for price and practice

 

[StickyBolt]

There is absolutely no reason to do a 22-250AI! If the standard 22-250 will not do what you want to do you either need to consider another cartridge. No straight walls do not make for reliable feeding or extraction. In fact non AI body taper is there to make the cartridge feed and extract more reliably! That is why for instance 30-06, 308 Win, 260 Rem and on and on all have taper.

The only reason to blow out a cartridge is to increase powder capacity from a non-proprietary piece of brass like back in the day when it was hard to get a custom made piece of brass but military surplus and factory brass was dirt cheap! That is also why most of your older military brass cartridges all have taper.

The only thing that taper does that might be considered a negative is that it requires some curve be added to a magazine if you want solider levels of ammunition not needed for hunting or target shooting. So if your primary concern is not feeding and extraction from the rifle but feeding through a cheap widely available mass produced detachable magazine then and only then would a lack of taper be an advantage but only with regard to how it moves through that very specific magazine combo!

The main reason to AI a .22-250 is so you won't have to trim cases. If you shoot often that is worth it.

 

[Nortex]

The main reason to AI a .22-250 is so you won't have to trim cases. If you shoot often that is worth it.

I used to have that mindset until I bought a giraud. 100pcs in 4 minutes negates any complaints on trimming.

 

[otnot]

Fuck having to fire form brass. Run straight .223 at 2.5 oal out of a 26 inch barrel. 80 grainers 2800 to 3000 fps all day long. 5000 rnd barrel life. Have your chamber throated long for it so you aren't jamming it. AI mags will hold them.
22-250 will burn a barrel in 1500 rounds.
As a matter of fact here is one. I've taken it to 1200 meters with amazing results. It is a laser beam. Unfortunately it isn't in a tacticool chasis and it has a barrel 10 inches longer than most of today's crowd wants.
View attachment 7934034

I too shoot a .223 throated to .169 and 1:7 twist 26 inch barrel. It likes 90 gr SMK at 2775 FPS. Here is a group at a 1000 last night.

 

[MarshallDodge]

I've never had a 22-250 to compare but I'm super happy with my 223AI.

 

[Skeptic1]

I too shoot a .223 throated to .169 and 1:7 twist 26 inch barrel. It likes 90 gr SMK at 2775 FPS. Here is a group at a 1000 last night.

I'm running the same twist in a Schneider 26". Mine did ok with the 90 Berger's but 80 gr amax is where it was at for mine. RL15

 

[ScottVA]

220 Swift

 

[otnot]

I'm running the same twist in a Schneider 26". Mine did ok with the 90 Berger's but 80 gr amax is where it was at for mine. RL15

What I’m finding with the 90 gr. is they like to be close to being jammed. I’m only .009 from a jammed stuck bullet. I use Varget when I have it but I have a ton of Imr4064 and since I’m seating so long I’m able to get 24.2 gr in the case and it barely compressed. It was pushing them at 2750. I really think a 6.5 twist would be better for the 90gr. The 88 gr Hornaday eldm fly really well also but they take a bit longer throat due to their longer ogive. A really good read is A Mouse On Steroids.

 

[Skeptic1]

What I’m finding with the 90 gr. is they like to be close to being jammed. I’m only .009 from a jammed stuck bullet. I use Varget when I have it but I have a ton of Imr4064 and since I’m seating so long I’m able to get 24.2 gr in the case and it barely compressed. It was pushing them at 2750. I really think a 6.5 twist would be better for the 90gr. The 88 gr Hornaday eldm fly really well also but they take a bit longer throat due to their longer ogive. A really good read is A Mouse On Steroids.

This is interesting. I've often thought I should have gone with a 6 twist.

 

[Im2bent]

What I’m finding with the 90 gr. is they like to be close to being jammed. I’m only .009 from a jammed stuck bullet. I use Varget when I have it but I have a ton of Imr4064 and since I’m seating so long I’m able to get 24.2 gr in the case and it barely compressed. It was pushing them at 2750. I really think a 6.5 twist would be better for the 90gr. The 88 gr Hornaday eldm fly really well also but they take a bit longer throat due to their longer ogive. A really good read is A Mouse On Steroids.

Author so I can narrow the search as I can't find it?

 

[otnot]

Author so I can narrow the search as I can't find it?

I can’t find it either. His name is Robert Pitcairn

 

[Im2bent]

I can’t find it either. His name is Robert Pitcairn

That gives me some guy that died in 1902 lulz. You have this book? If so isbn number maybe?

 

[otnot]

This all I could come up with but there’s some good information.

robert pitcairn mouse on steroids site:forum.accurateshooter.com - Google Search

 

[Im2bent]

This all I could come up with but there’s some good information.

robert pitcairn mouse on steroids site:forum.accurateshooter.com - Google Search

Found it using your links here it is on page 35. https://www.dcra.ca/_files/ugd/b84a4b_ef0a3216eef349b19c9cb84235cefee5.pdf

 

[NFshooter150]

I have a 223 wylde chambered 26 inch barrel that I could get 85.5 bergers up to 2900 without pressure and am currently having a new barrel chambered in 223ai for it. I'm curious to test and see how much faster it will be