At below $4k... that's, uh, suddenly really difficult to pass on, given the preliminary reviews.
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TheWonder if they'll stay at that price? Or if its just a sale because they aren't moving like they hoped.
Especially after watching Ilya's video, he said the 6-36 is a slight hair behind the TTs. Coin flip at that point.The former is my suspicion. For whatever reason another $1K+ on a Theta is hard to swallow and the 36mm tube just makes it harder.
I thought the Schmidt that I tried during the SH class had a 34 mm tube.The former is my suspicion. For whatever reason another $1K+ on a Theta is hard to swallow and the 36mm tube just makes it harder.
I’m able to see targets at a mile fairly clearly even in heavy NC mirage with my decrepit 5-25. If the 6-36 is any better it would be a massive upgrade at this price.I thought the Schmidt that I tried during the SH class had a 34 mm tube.
I kind of like the 36mm that ZCO and TT offer but the price of this Schmidt is pretty crazy.
Hard to justify an almost $2K premium for the TT.
Schmidt 34mm. TT 735p 36mm. Apologies if I was unclear.I thought the Schmidt that I tried during the SH class had a 34 mm tube.
I kind of like the 36mm that ZCO and TT offer but the price of this Schmidt is pretty crazy.
Hard to justify an almost $2K premium for the TT.
I wish this was the case here.Also...the NEW S&B 5-25 is also much cheaper than the previous Gen 5-25........ and cheaper than the 6-36..
I'm sure it will be soon.I wish this was the case here.
Don't love the p5 or gr2id enough to justify it....Just got the email from EO. It’s a limited time sales event. So get them while you can at that price.
Not likely that they’ll stay at this price, to see a brand new Schmidt drop in price like this is highly unusual, it sure seems #FOVGate is affecting USA sales. From all accounts the scopes are amazing, but the US is likely Schmidts largest market for this scope outside of any mil/le contracts and if interest is waning that could influence Schmidt USA to offer below MAP pricing.Wonder if they'll stay at that price? Or if its just a sale because they aren't moving like they hoped.
Got this from a friend who has all three (I've had the ZCO 5-27 and the TT 5-25 but yet to get the S&B 6-36 because I'm biased with the neutered FOV)With the current price on the S&B 6-36, I'm debating between that and a ZCO 5-27. I'm aware of the USA FOV situation. But, how does the FOV of these two scopes at say 12x and above differ?
Got this from a friend who has all three (I've had the ZCO 5-27 and the TT 5-25 but yet to get the S&B 6-36 because I'm biased with the neutered FOV)
TT Gen 5-25 3xr
SB PM II 6-36 P5FL (USA Version)
- 10x: 20.2 mil
- 20x: ~10.3 mil
- 25x: 8.4 mil
ZCO 527 MPCT3
- 10x: 18.6 mil
- 20x: 9.5 mil
- 25x: 7.7 mil
This confirms my suspicion that the ZCO FOV specs are incorrect. AFOV based on specs provided by ZCO show it at 23.20° while the specs for TT are 22.92° and specs for S&B (USA) are 21.66°.
- 10x: ~18.2 mil
- 20x: 9.1 mil
- 25x: ~7.7 mil (there is no index for 25x, so I approximated)
According to the specs, the ZCO ought to have the widest FOV of all three of these scopes, but actual real world performance shows it has the least FOV. This was confirmed with my alpha scope review last year as well so I am pretty confident that the ZCO specs provided on their website are for those sold outside the USA but similar to S&B they have neutered the FOV (due to the Swaro patent issue) for scopes intended for the USA. ILya has said he can see the field stop when looking inside the ZCO...
Lawsuits are expensive. Noone wants to deal with it and noone wants to sue Swaro just to deal with it.@koshkin so, regarding the general silence from scope manufacturers about #FOVgate, why do you think this is?
I know Leica actually invested time and energy in the courts to fight that stupid Swaro patent (won one, lost one). But if some small company held that patent I’d think the scope manufacturers would have issued forth on Twitter, in videos, during trades shows, or something. More than Leica’s one or two little press releases.
Is it the silence because many manufacturers need Swaro for something? Like…(guessing here)…certain glass coatings or the ability to actually apply coatings?
Totally agree on why Swaro does what it does.I suspect that, Swaro corporate being a bunch of arrogant Euro pricks, they simply do not care about anyone other than a couple of high end European companies. Everyone else they just do not consider their competition.
Sorry for the dumb question but why are you stating FOV in mils? Never seen that beforeGot this from a friend who has all three (I've had the ZCO 5-27 and the TT 5-25 but yet to get the S&B 6-36 because I'm biased with the neutered FOV)
TT Gen 5-25 3xr
SB PM II 6-36 P5FL (USA Version)
- 10x: 20.2 mil
- 20x: ~10.3 mil
- 25x: 8.4 mil
ZCO 527 MPCT3
- 10x: 18.6 mil
- 20x: 9.5 mil
- 25x: 7.7 mil
This confirms my suspicion that the ZCO FOV specs are incorrect. AFOV based on specs provided by ZCO show it at 23.20° while the specs for TT are 22.92° and specs for S&B (USA) are 21.66°.
- 10x: ~18.2 mil
- 20x: 9.1 mil
- 25x: ~7.7 mil (there is no index for 25x, so I approximated)
According to the specs, the ZCO ought to have the widest FOV of all three of these scopes, but actual real world performance shows it has the least FOV. This was confirmed with my alpha scope review last year as well so I am pretty confident that the ZCO specs provided on their website are for those sold outside the USA but similar to S&B they have neutered the FOV (due to the Swaro patent issue) for scopes intended for the USA. ILya has said he can see the field stop when looking inside the ZCO...
Sorry for the dumb question but why are you stating FOV in mils? Never seen that before
Thank you...I didn't consider that but makes perfect senseAssuming the reticle is accurate, with that method used above it's quick and easy to compare relative FOV of various scopes without needing a large wall at a known distance marked with measured graduations.
All you need to do for the method described above is look at the image and see how much of the reticle is visible at a given magnification, and if you want to know the more common measurement of FOV in meters at 100 meters you know how much a mil subtends at a known distance-- so just do the math required.
Again, this is all dependant on having an accurate reticle.
You want fov buy a March 4.5-28. Easily 20% wider
And shorter. And lighter. And less expensive.You want fov buy a March 4.5-28. Easily 20% wider than a ZCO.
Or try a non-US market S&B 6-36, the apparent FOV at a given magnification is even wider than the March.
(Sorry, just trying to stir things up.)
You will NOT regret your decision here!!Thank you very much for this. It was exactly what I was looking for. I just placed an order for an S&B 6-36.
New ver 5-25 here in Aus...approx. USD $2800..
High on crack was last years prices, they've come down a little so I think most of them are just on meth now Hoping Schmidt USA comes all the way back to just being on Benadryl at some point. They did this once before in the mid twenty teens, prices kept rising and then all of a sudden they came back down to earth. I suppose any company is welcome to price their products at what they think they're worth; however, in the end the market will usually dictate whether that is acceptable or not.Which is what they used to be back in 2019... SB appears to just think the us market will bear 4.4k now for that scope and they are high on crack
A new TT 7-35 is circa AUD $10K+ now.. ..... So in Aus TT pricing is real hard to swallow ....so to a degree we get screwed on that!!Which is what they used to be back in 2019... SB appears to just think the us market will bear 4.4k now for that scope and they are high on crack
Chump change, you should be able to sell a few wombats for that But seriously, that is a tough pill to swallow, with the limited FOV of the 7-35 I would think the Schmidt 6-36 would be much better.A new TT 7-35 is circa AUD $10K+ now.. ..... So in Aus TT pricing is real hard to swallow ....so to a degree we get screwed on that!!
I actually had a TT 7-35 pre ordered, BUT i have been so impressed with my S&B 6-36,s..... i cancelled my TT order.Chump change, you should be able to sell a few wombats for that But seriously, that is a tough pill to swallow, with the limited FOV of the 7-35 I would think the Schmidt 6-36 would be much better.
I don't know, maybe @SkyScrapin can give us the mil values (sorry to put you on the spot brother). Based on AFOV values, the 7-35 will not have as wide FOV as the 5-25.
Being that I don't know anything about the Swarovski patent infringement issue, what I was asking is are both the 5-25 and 7-35 TT affected by the same infringement issue?Based on the specs the TT 7-35 has a narrower apparent FOV than the 5-25, so the 5-25 should have a wider image than the 7-35 at the same magnification.
TT 5-25 AFOV: 22.92 degrees
TT 7-35: 21.66 degrees
This of course depends on the specs being correct... notably, it appears the US version of the ZCO 527 might not have as wide as an FOV as the spec sheet claims it does.
Being that I don't know anything about the Swarovski patent infringement issue, what I was asking is are both the 5-25 and 7-35 TT affected by the same infringement issue?
See earlier test @jbailey and I performed:
Compare to TT website which is 0.9 degrees (1.6m @ 100m).S&B at 25x: 1.55 meters or 5'1" (not listed on S&B website, but might be interesting if you want to compare it to your favorite 5-25x56mm)
Got this from a friend who has all three (I've had the ZCO 5-27 and the TT 5-25 but yet to get the S&B 6-36 because I'm biased with the neutered FOV)
TT Gen 5-25 3xr
SB PM II 6-36 P5FL (USA Version)
- 10x: 20.2 mil
- 20x: ~10.3 mil
- 25x: 8.4 mil
ZCO 527 MPCT3
- 10x: 18.6 mil
- 20x: 9.5 mil
- 25x: 7.7 mil
This confirms my suspicion that the ZCO FOV specs are incorrect. AFOV based on specs provided by ZCO show it at 23.20° while the specs for TT are 22.92° and specs for S&B (USA) are 21.66°.
- 10x: ~18.2 mil
- 20x: 9.1 mil
- 25x: ~7.7 mil (there is no index for 25x, so I approximated)
According to the specs, the ZCO ought to have the widest FOV of all three of these scopes, but actual real world performance shows it has the least FOV. This was confirmed with my alpha scope review last year as well so I am pretty confident that the ZCO specs provided on their website are for those sold outside the USA but similar to S&B they have neutered the FOV (due to the Swaro patent issue) for scopes intended for the USA. ILya has said he can see the field stop when looking inside the ZCO...
That is…quite a bit more than the US version! Thx.That is a neat way of checking FOV, never thought about it.
Just did the same with my EU 6-36x56 also with the P5FL, and got the following results:
• 10x: 22.2 mil
• 20x: 11.2 mil
• 25x: 9.0mil
Take the numbers for what it is, I have never done this before and readings are approximate, but no doubt there is a difference. Maybe someone can do the maths to verify the numbers.
Yes, the results surprised meThat is…quite a bit more than the US version! Thx.
As an American, how I feel about the results…lolYes, the results surprised me
Yeah not exactly subtle!!That is…quite a bit more than the US version! Thx.
Yeah not exactly subtle!!
Aussie version is the same as Euro version ....
You broke me, woofie. Broken man walkin’Yeah not exactly subtle!!
Aussie version is the same as Euro version ....