That these are finally shipping is a concern...I had promised myself no more rifles...I have enough...
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New Sig CROSS
- Thread starter oda175365
- Start date
I'm curious what you all think would be the best impromptu way to secure the action while removing the barrel nut. Sig references a reaction rod type tool in their manual, but I don't think they are available yet. Maybe a 2x4 trimmed to fit in the magwell, protruding out the bottom and clamped in a vice?
I've got material coming this week to make a rear entry action wrench. Personally I prefer that method vs a magazine well block.
PM me if you're interested.
I am using the gen 2 APA "Little Bastard" self-timing muzzle brake, it does seem to work. APA claims about 40% less recoil. They now have a gen 3 out that is a bit longer, with an extra set of ports, and can be tuned by removing set screws.
www.americanprecisionarms.com
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Looks awesome! im going to cerakote it too with Magpul OD green or Coyote tan. Will post when done.
what are the special considerations when installing a muzzle brake on this tapered barrel?
Just take the thread protector off, but leave the black ring on so that you have a strait edge for the brake to tighten against.
Did a lot of research. think i am leaning towards the Hypertap.
Hypertap® Muzzle Brake
Upgrade to the best performing AR15/Bolt Action muzzle brake at up to 84% recoil reduction. Offered in over 40 caliber and thread options, see it in action.
precisionarmament.com
What about a subsonic .338 Federal instead of .300BO so you don't have to find a new boltface?
Just need to custom load for subsonics.
What are your plans for this rifle? The Hypertap will do a good job of reducing recoil, but (if it is going to be used for hunting) it has a 35degree port angle so IMO that is a little too much for even one shot without ear pro (if that is even a consideration). I think your Hellfires are something like 15degrees and then maybe 5degrees for the 2P version. The slim version in the stainless would definitely be a looker tho.
I have a cherry bomb that I had sitting around from my Fix on mine. Doesn’t do shit except protect the muzzle but the recoil was honestly not all that bad. No issue maintaining site picture.
probably 10% hunting and 90% messing around at the shooting range. I am very interested in following the bullet to impact with the possibility of a scope cam. What brand of sling is that on your Cross? nice setup...
It is a Blue Force Gear padded sling. Really works well on the rifle. Thank you
I threw a cherry bomb on mine as well... I will second that it doesn’t do anything for recoil.
There any reason in particular you are keeping the taper adapter on?... Q uses the same taper as Sig so the CB just threads right on.
The cherry bomb really is nothing more than a mount. Not much for flash and not much for recoil reduction. I’m personally not a Q fan but I had it laying around and it is a decent suppressor mount and I’ll probably use it once my Nomad once I get it.
On the taper adapter, my rationale for using it with the APA, is it requires the barrel diameter to be at least .75" at the muzzle and a flat surface to tighten against. That might not be true for other muzzle brakes. But with mine snugged up, it has not moved or come loose with the adapter.
Picked up a 6.5 Creed today on an impulse purchase. For anyone wondering- as it sits with Omega 30, Atlas CAL, and Optic, it weighed in at 11.4 lbs on the bathroom scale. Can’t wait to see how it shoots and I see this being a perfect youth gun as well for my boys when they start shooting.
For lightweight rigs...these things are getting heavy quick, it seems. My M70 goes right about 9 lbs...and if I ever got around to putting a can on it (didn't build it that way), it would be around 10 lbs.
Starting weight is really all that matters. Then it allows you to customize as you please. I don’t mind mine being 11 pounds with the suppressor, bipod, mark 6 scope. It’s easy to lighten it up with no can, bipod, and a lightweight scope. I bought it so I could get away from a heavy Remington 700. This with the same gear weighs about 3lbs less.
I like the fact it starts out light so I can add whatever I want and not worry about it. I can put a heavy optic, suppressor and a bipod and be at the weight of a 700 or you can take all that off and run super light. I haven’t been this satisfied with a box stock gun yet.
As far as accuracy I am getting a consistent .6 with some groups under a half.
As far as accuracy I am getting a consistent .6 with some groups under a half.
Took mine out and put a few Hornady black and Prime 140gr through it for sight-in and initial break-in. Zeroing was a breeze and took it out to 350 with ease- this little rifle can stack rounds on top of eachother. Was shooting steel so not sure on group size but very happy with the rifle. Recoil is non-existent with the suppressor, trigger is more than you can ask for on a hunting gun. One of the most versatile guns I own.
I did break it down tonight to clean the barrel and bolt, and did notice a big improvement on action smoothness after greasing some of the bolt surfaces and friction faces. With anything more cycles will smooth it up as well, but the only thing this rifle is missing is another sling attachment for the hand guard.
Can’t wait to start building a load for it and see what it likes. Factory Hornady blacks were under 2600 FYI out of mine.
I did break it down tonight to clean the barrel and bolt, and did notice a big improvement on action smoothness after greasing some of the bolt surfaces and friction faces. With anything more cycles will smooth it up as well, but the only thing this rifle is missing is another sling attachment for the hand guard.
Can’t wait to start building a load for it and see what it likes. Factory Hornady blacks were under 2600 FYI out of mine.
I took my new Sig Cross to a Randy Cain Practical Rifle class over the weekend. If you're unfamiliar with the concept of the practical rifle, you really should look into it. The idea is to be able to have one rifle that will handle just about any job. It is similar in many ways to a scout rifle, but doesn't follow the dogma and definitions of a true scout, and fills largely the same role. I purchased the Cross as a back-up to my Steyr Scout. I wanted something that could fill a similar role, but would have some unique features to justify having something different.
Randy teaches students how to run a bolt gun in a fight. Any deer rifle will work. His training class is going to show you the good, the bad and the ugly of your equipment. The guns are run hard and any weakness will manifest itself in short order. I'll cover it all here.
The good:
It is compact and lightweight. I chose this rifle for a multitude of reasons but high on the list was the folding stock which means I can carry it in a VERY compact case. The case is only 29" long and it doesn't look like a rifle case. I put a Sig BDX 2.5-8X scope on it which weighs a bit more than I'd like and the sling I put on it is a little heavy (Andy's Leather Ching Sling in 1.25" width because I won it... I would have chosen a 1"). I added a couple of QD mounts and the thing weighs an ounce shy of 9 pounds empty.
The trigger is phenomenal. It is 2 stage and breaks clean and crisp at 2.25 pounds with no creep and seems to have a very short lock time. There is no clunk when the striker moves.
Bolt lift is smooth and easy. I learned that running the bolt is much faster if I leave my thumb on the right side of the grip. It takes a little getting used to but works very well.
I bought 3 ten round magazines and 3 extra 5 round mags which made my total loaded capacity 50 rounds. That was very nice, especially in a few of the Rolling Thunder drills.
The adjustable stock was nice in two ways. First, I discovered that in prone, the gun wanted to tip to the left. I had to put pressure with my firing hand to correct it which isn't good. The butt pad can be canted to correct this which allowed me to keep it level without any muscle tension from my firing hand. I also discovered that I needed the stock extended by 3/4" when shooting from prone and that was easy to accomplish but as you'll see below, this didn't work out as well as hoped.
The bad:
When shooting from prone, I can't get my support hand directly under the rifle unless I extend my arm way out on the forend. That means no skeletal support and no natural point of aim. The mag well prevents my arm from getting into the correct position for a really stable prone position. Sitting, kneeling and the rest were fine, but prone was not. A bipod would fix this of course but with a weight and bulk and speed penalty.
It is overall uncomfortable to shoot from prone. I got a big and painful bruise on the top of my shoulder that still hurts like hell a few days later. I never felt like my face was correctly behind the scope and perhaps higher rings would help that. It was just a struggle to shoot from prone. For you long range shooters reading this, remember that this is slung prone... not from a bipod or rest.
The bolt knob seems well designed until you cycle it hard and fast a couple hundred times. Then, you discover that those grooves create a callous on your finger and thumb.
Same is true of the M-Lok holes in the forend. My support hand fingers can still feel where it was rubbing in the holes during recoil.
The mag release is oddly placed and makes rapid changes a bit difficult. I would punch it with the tip of my trigger finger.
The mags often required excessive force to get properly seated. This was true of the P-mags and the factory original mag.
The ugly:
I probably put 300 rounds through the rifle in the first 2 days of the class and had 5 failures to strip a round from the magazine. The bolt just slid over the top of the next cartridge. The magazine was seated properly and I'm 99.9% sure that I ran the bolt fully to the rear. I am not easy on a bolt gun and run them hard and fast.
The mechanism that holds the butt pad for length of pull fails under recoil. I adjusted it to about 3/4" from the shortest setting and within 5 shots, it is back to it's shortest position. If I extend it all the way, it seems to hold, but from a fairly short position, it will not hold.
Overall, I'm not sure I like this thing as much as I once did. I switched to my Steyr Scout for the night shoot and all of day three and that just felt MUCH more natural. The Steyr lacks any longer range capability and is not as compact as the Cross. Being able to select 5 or 10 round mags was nice. I'm just not sure it is worth it.
I'll be posting a class review later but if you're interested, here is Randy Cain's web site: https://www.guntactics.com/rifle.php
Randy teaches students how to run a bolt gun in a fight. Any deer rifle will work. His training class is going to show you the good, the bad and the ugly of your equipment. The guns are run hard and any weakness will manifest itself in short order. I'll cover it all here.
The good:
It is compact and lightweight. I chose this rifle for a multitude of reasons but high on the list was the folding stock which means I can carry it in a VERY compact case. The case is only 29" long and it doesn't look like a rifle case. I put a Sig BDX 2.5-8X scope on it which weighs a bit more than I'd like and the sling I put on it is a little heavy (Andy's Leather Ching Sling in 1.25" width because I won it... I would have chosen a 1"). I added a couple of QD mounts and the thing weighs an ounce shy of 9 pounds empty.
The trigger is phenomenal. It is 2 stage and breaks clean and crisp at 2.25 pounds with no creep and seems to have a very short lock time. There is no clunk when the striker moves.
Bolt lift is smooth and easy. I learned that running the bolt is much faster if I leave my thumb on the right side of the grip. It takes a little getting used to but works very well.
I bought 3 ten round magazines and 3 extra 5 round mags which made my total loaded capacity 50 rounds. That was very nice, especially in a few of the Rolling Thunder drills.
The adjustable stock was nice in two ways. First, I discovered that in prone, the gun wanted to tip to the left. I had to put pressure with my firing hand to correct it which isn't good. The butt pad can be canted to correct this which allowed me to keep it level without any muscle tension from my firing hand. I also discovered that I needed the stock extended by 3/4" when shooting from prone and that was easy to accomplish but as you'll see below, this didn't work out as well as hoped.
The bad:
When shooting from prone, I can't get my support hand directly under the rifle unless I extend my arm way out on the forend. That means no skeletal support and no natural point of aim. The mag well prevents my arm from getting into the correct position for a really stable prone position. Sitting, kneeling and the rest were fine, but prone was not. A bipod would fix this of course but with a weight and bulk and speed penalty.
It is overall uncomfortable to shoot from prone. I got a big and painful bruise on the top of my shoulder that still hurts like hell a few days later. I never felt like my face was correctly behind the scope and perhaps higher rings would help that. It was just a struggle to shoot from prone. For you long range shooters reading this, remember that this is slung prone... not from a bipod or rest.
The bolt knob seems well designed until you cycle it hard and fast a couple hundred times. Then, you discover that those grooves create a callous on your finger and thumb.
Same is true of the M-Lok holes in the forend. My support hand fingers can still feel where it was rubbing in the holes during recoil.
The mag release is oddly placed and makes rapid changes a bit difficult. I would punch it with the tip of my trigger finger.
The mags often required excessive force to get properly seated. This was true of the P-mags and the factory original mag.
The ugly:
I probably put 300 rounds through the rifle in the first 2 days of the class and had 5 failures to strip a round from the magazine. The bolt just slid over the top of the next cartridge. The magazine was seated properly and I'm 99.9% sure that I ran the bolt fully to the rear. I am not easy on a bolt gun and run them hard and fast.
The mechanism that holds the butt pad for length of pull fails under recoil. I adjusted it to about 3/4" from the shortest setting and within 5 shots, it is back to it's shortest position. If I extend it all the way, it seems to hold, but from a fairly short position, it will not hold.
Overall, I'm not sure I like this thing as much as I once did. I switched to my Steyr Scout for the night shoot and all of day three and that just felt MUCH more natural. The Steyr lacks any longer range capability and is not as compact as the Cross. Being able to select 5 or 10 round mags was nice. I'm just not sure it is worth it.
I'll be posting a class review later but if you're interested, here is Randy Cain's web site: https://www.guntactics.com/rifle.php
What a great account of hard use. While I’m sure most will never run it that hard even over the lifetime of the rifle, I really appreciate your taking the time to convey your assessment.
Thanks for the write up. I did cycle 250 rounds through mine with 5 mags and tried to do everything I could to get the bolt to ride over the top of the next round and couldn’t do it. But definitely interested to see if this is a one-off thing or if more people start noticing it. I’ll have to test the stock next time I am out. I also agree that the mag release is trash.
On a semi-related note, the SAAMI standard cartridge/chamber drawings for the 277 Fury just came out, so maybe Crosses in that chambering will start to become available.
That's a pretty substantial failure I haven't heard reported before, are you going to send it back to Sig for repair?
tks...ordered and installed a seekins ATC (have one on my Havak)....the stars aligned and everything threaded down perfect!
Thanks for your feed back on the rifle and the class. Generally if I am shooting prone, it's with a bipod. I have not tried prone unsupported with the Cross. That would be tedious for more than a few shots.
Did you use factory ammo for your class, or did you hand load. Was the max OAL in spec? Just based on your comments about the mag being hard to seat. Is it the same open bolt vs closed bolt? Did you lube the mag release spring per the manual page 74.
I have been using the factory Sig mags and don't find them hard to seat. I am using hand loads with Berger 140 gr hybrids at 2.8" COAL for 6.5 CM.
On the stock loosing and collapsing. Mine did loosen the first time I took it to the range. But I think I just didn't have it in a detent when I tightened it. After I repositioned and retighten it hasn't come loose or moved again.
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Both open and closed. And I'll have to consult page 74 of the manual. I wasn't aware of any lube required to seat the mag.
Ammo was cheap shit. Prvi Partisan M80.
I don't think the bolt over-runs were not connected to the mag seating. The firs time it happened, I gave the mag a tug to make sure it was seated and it was. The next time, I just ran the bolt again and it picked up the next round. It was a weird failure.
After I got home, I started looking at this. I tried extending the stock to its longest position and then smacked it on the floor. It stayed right in place. I then shortened it to perhaps 3/4" from the shortest position and did the same thing. It collapsed. I did it again but this time only hit it with the heel of my palm. Again, it collapsed. It was not loose. In fact, after it collapsed, I had to use pliers to loosen the adjustment knob. I don't think the teeth are cut as well in that part of the adjustment range.
You might have a point about the stock teeth being slightly different. I have the length of pull set to a different spot, a bit farther out from my first trip to the range.
I have the butt pad extended about 5/8" now. In checking the adjustment groves this morning. Mine look uniform, but the angle of the L bracket might affect how it holds at the shortest positions.
On the mag release, the PDF shows some lubercant is needed on the release spring itself. I guess the lever could be a little bigger, but mine holds and releases fine.
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I still like the Cross as a rifle concept...just surprised by the weights I'm seeing. I've got a Tikka T3x that's my "light" rifle right now - about 8.5 lbs empty. I initially got it as a project rifle to do a 7 SAUM, but am also contemplating a 6.5 PRC with an 18 inch tube on it...basically a poor man's Cross in .277 Fury. I wouldn't be surprised to see it get more compact but bulk up slightly when it's all said and done. I just try to keep anything I've gotta carry to 10 lbs or less...ideally less.
Just wondering, does the pic rail and forearm need to be removed to take the barrel out? Or is it just loosening thw two cross bolts and sliding it out? I couldn't find a video on the barrel removal process. Thanks guys!
Down load the PDF user manual, it has several pages that describe how to change the barrel. Starts on page 93, it looks like a barrel assembly tool and barrel nut wrench are needed.
Cross Manual
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