New Sig CROSS

Picked up a Cross. Got it home and I wish I had spent more time inspecting it at the FFL. No shots down the barrel yet.

Things I noticed that I didn't like.
1. The safety has an extra detent like many of you have experienced.
2. The barrel is not centered in the handguard. Not sure if this is handguard or barrel that is the problem. I loosened up the rail and it's better, but still not perfect.
3. I just noticed damage to the crown. A gouge out of the lip and one on the flat. Nothing near the bore. I'm not sure whether this will affect accuracy or not.

I have a Manson 11 degree crowning kit. I'm considering re-crowning this thing and tossing a brake on it afterwards.

Thoughts on the crown?
 

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Ok, I can understand wanting 6.5 CM over .308 for most uses, but if that power factor is really a driving requirement, it seems like pretty much any .308 hand load would meet it. Power factor favors bullet weight, so, you might be able to get over the ~2,435 fps needed with something like the 156gr EOL. If you have some RL26 you should be able to make that PF with anything 140gr and up. I'm planning on trying some 147gr ELDs with RL16 today, if I do, I'll post up the velocities I get.
.308 is on my mind. I don't reload .308 so that is the main reason why I prefer to stick with 6.5 since I reload for that caliber and have plenty of components.
 
My LGS had a 6.5 in the other day and the barrel was off just like that. How does that pass qc and make it to the customer?

Has anyone had their barrel fluted?
 
I unscrewed the handguard and 1 screw on the optic mount. I re-aligned the handguard and it seems better now. It's not perfect though nowhere near as noticeable.

I called Sig service and sent pics. They said they would gladly take a look and address everything though it would likely be a 3 week turnaround.
The rep suggested I try and remove any high spots off the crown with some 0000 steel wool and oil and if it shoots wonky they would take it in. He made notes on my serial # that this was damage done before shooting or using it.

So service-wise I feel like I've been taken care of.

I have to get my optic on and hit the range to see what it does.
 
I unscrewed the handguard and 1 screw on the optic mount. I re-aligned the handguard and it seems better now. It's not perfect though nowhere near as noticeable.

I called Sig service and sent pics. They said they would gladly take a look and address everything though it would likely be a 3 week turnaround.
The rep suggested I try and remove any high spots off the crown with some 0000 steel wool and oil and if it shoots wonky they would take it in. He made notes on my serial # that this was damage done before shooting or using it.

So service-wise I feel like I've been taken care of.

I have to get my optic on and hit the range to see what it does.
Re: the handguard alignment... I have a few rifles/handguards that attach similarly to the Cross (I have a Cross too) and that type of handguard is a pain in the ass to get dead-center. There's enough deflection available when the screws aren't tight that you can move the handguard quite a bit in any direction, then when you tighten down the screws they don't really self-center things like you'd think they would. What you've gotta do is kind of a guess-and-check thing where you hold or preload the handguard in one direction, then carefully go around and snug down the screws and see if it looks centered before tightening them fully. With some time you can get it pretty much right on. On the other hand, if it's off a bit it doesn't make any difference in how the rifle shoots, it just looks bad.
 
Has anyone done a video or picture sequence of the extension removal?
This might be a rehash of somewhere else in this long thread but here it goes.

First, if you don't know how to properly barrel a bolt gun I don't recommend you do this. Take it to a gunsmith and let them do it. You can pull off the extension nut and reinstall per the Sig manual all you want but once you touch the barrel nut knowledge of headspacing and the proper tools and techniques come into play. If you do it wrong you're asking for trouble including injury or worse. TAKE IT TO A QUALIFIED GUNSMITH. My post is not an instruction manual. It's just for information.

Ok, Sig's design is somewhat unique in the fact that it uses two separate nuts that DON'T interface or touch each other. Essentially one nut, I'll call it the extension nut, holds the barrel extension to the receiver. The other nut is the barrel nut. The barrel nut operates exactly the same way as a regular barrel nut from a Savage, Remage, Howage and so on except that it secures the barrel to an extension instead of a receiver. Both nuts interface the extension on the same shoulder (but don't overlap or touch) and have very different purposes. Using a 12 point, 1 - 1/16" box end wrench you can actually remove the barrel from the extension while the extension is still installed and secured by the extension nut in the receiver.

This rifle is getting a new 6CM barrel and while it's apart I thought I would take some pics. It was originally a 308. Shockingly there doesn't seem to be any pics of the extension or how it works with the receiver on the internet. At least I could not find any. One last note, when I was disassembling this gun both the extension nut and barrel nut were not even close to being tight. This might explain why some rifles are not grouping well or have off center barrels. Also, check your crown, this rifle was not crowned at all. It actually had a burr that was wearing down when I noticed it. Crowning a barrel is pretty easy and it did improve the accuracy but the main accuracy culprit of this rifle I suspect was the loose nuts.

I hope these pics help answer questions.

Assembled minus scope rail and hand guard.
IMG_1119.jpg


Extension nut removed with standard AR wrench. At this a point very gentle pull and wiggle of the barrel will allow the barrel extension to slide out of the receiver with the barrel.
IMG_1121.jpg


Barrel and barrel extension removed from receiver. The barrel was secured in a Viper Barrel Vise for extension nut and barrel nut removal.
IMG_1132.jpg


Bare extension. This is the point of no return if the barrel nut is loosened at all. If the extension is turned in relation to the barrel even in the slightest it will change the headspacing on the rifle. This is where tools, knowledge and experience are needed to safely reassemble the rifle. The barrel nut is removed with a 1-1/16" box end wrench. Just like any other variable shoulder barrel, the barrel nut is a jam nut. The barrel nut must move towards the muzzle to separate it from contacting the extension. Then the extension simply screws off by hand and the barrel nut right behind it. There are NO left hand threads in this design. Just good ole' fashion Savage cost cutting engineering.
IMG_1123.jpg


Extension, breech end. Bolt head lug raceways at 10, 2 and 6 along with the feed ramp.
IMG_1137.jpg


Extension, barrel thread end. Lugs visible at the bottom.
IMG_1136.jpg


Extension nut. Shoulder that interfaces with the extension visible.
IMG_1122.jpg


Extension and extension nut relationship
IMG_1129.jpg


Extension, extension nut and barrel nut relationship
IMG_1130.jpg


Barrel nut sitting inside extension nut. You can see they do not interface or touch each other.
IMG_1135.jpg
 
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This might be a rehash of somewhere else in this long thread but here it goes.

First, if you don't know how to properly barrel a bolt gun I don't recommend you do this. Take it to a gunsmith and let them do it. You can pull off the extension nut and reinstall per the Sig manual all you want but once you touch the barrel nut knowledge of headspacing and the proper tools and techniques come into play. If you do it wrong you're asking for trouble including injury or worse. TAKE IT TO A QUALIFIED GUNSMITH. My post is not an instruction manual. It's just for information.

Ok, Sig's design is somewhat unique in the fact that it uses two separate nuts that DON'T interface or touch each other. Essentially one nut, I'll call it the extension nut, holds the barrel extension to the receiver. The other nut is the barrel nut. The barrel nut operates exactly the same way as a regular barrel nut from a Savage, Remage, Howage and so on except that it secures the barrel to an extension instead of a receiver. Both nuts interface the extension on the same shoulder (but don't overlap or touch) and have very different purposes. Using a 12 point, 1 - 1/16" box end wrench you can actually remove the barrel from the extension while the extension is still installed and secured by the extension nut in the receiver.

This rifle is getting a new 6CM barrel and while it's apart I thought I would take some pics. It was originally a 308. Shockingly there doesn't seem to be any pics of the extension or how it works with the receiver on the internet. At least I could not find any. Once last note, when I was disassembling this gun both the extension nut and barrel nut were not even close to being tight. This might explain why some rifles are not grouping well or have off center barrels. Also, check your crown, this rifle was not crowned at all. It actually had a burr that was wearing down when I noticed it. Crowning a barrel is pretty easy and it did improve the accuracy but the main accuracy culprit of this rifle I suspect was the loose nuts.

I hope these pics help answer questions.
Thanks for that explanation and pics.

Would you mind giving your opinion on my above picture with the damaged crown face?
Would you re-crown it? I have an 11 degree crowning kit from Manson ( I could also send back to Sig, wait 3 weeks and see what comes back)
 

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Thanks for that explanation and pics.

Would you mind giving your opinion on my above picture with the damaged crown face?
Would you re-crown it? I have an 11 degree crowning kit from Manson ( I could also send back to Sig, wait 3 weeks and see what comes back)

FYI, I'm not a gunsmith. The gunsmith that taught me how to do basic barrel work was a stickler about the crown so I'm a little sensitive to it. Since recrowning is very easy and it doesn't take much to get a great result I would recrown if it were my rifle. However, if you do it remember that Sig might not warranty the gun in the future.

I don't know anything about a Manson kit but I bet it would make a nice improvement to the crown. I use a 45 degree Brownells cutter with Ultra S/P cutting oil and the appropriate caliber pilot. Then I lightly lap with 600 grit lapping compound and a brass lapping radius tool. I prefer my crowns to be a little deeper so I can see the transition better. I also use a magnifying glass to ensure any minute burr is removed by the lapping. It usually only requires a light touch spun with the fingers a few times.

Below is the before and after. The after shot was just taken with about 250 rounds after the crown work.

I hope this helps.

JB
 

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FYI, I'm not a gunsmith. The gunsmith that taught me how to do basic barrel work was a stickler about the crown so I'm a little sensitive to it. Since recrowning is very easy and it doesn't take much to get a great result I would recrown if it were my rifle. However, if you do it remember that Sig might not warranty the gun in the future.

I don't know anything about a Manson kit but I bet it would make a nice improvement to the crown. I use a 45 degree Brownells cutter with Ultra S/P cutting oil and the appropriate caliber pilot. Then I lightly lap with 600 grit lapping compound and a brass lapping radius tool. I prefer my crowns to be a little deeper so I can see the transition better. I also use a magnifying glass to ensure any minute burr is removed by the lapping. It usually only requires a light touch spun with the fingers a few times.

Below is the before and after. The after shot was just taken with about 250 rounds after the crown work.

I hope this helps.

JB

That looks great.

The damage on mine isn't close to the center of the barrel. It's more the flats I'm concerned with. Maybe I'll give Manson Reamers a call.

My 11 degree cutter would remove the recess of the muzzle and it would end up being like this:
 

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That looks great.

The damage on mine isn't close to the center of the barrel. It's more the flats I'm concerned with. Maybe I'll give Manson Reamers a call.

My 11 degree cutter would remove the recess of the muzzle and it would end up being like this:

I like the look of the 11 degree crown but I've never done one. I know my gunsmith buddy does a lot of them.
 
Thanks for that explanation and pics.

Would you mind giving your opinion on my above picture with the damaged crown face?
Would you re-crown it? I have an 11 degree crowning kit from Manson ( I could also send back to Sig, wait 3 weeks and see what comes back)
Those little dings aren't going to have any effect. It is purely cosmetic that far away from the bore.
 
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So I guess this is a warning for potential Cross buyers.

I received the rifle back from Sig. They aligned the handguard, but the misalignment of the scope interface to my zero is still way off. Sig CS communicated that it was “acceptable.”When asked to define acceptable, the answer was lacking as they only mentioned a Sig Tango 6 was able to zero the rifle at 25 yds. No info was given on the amount of windage left and right. I’m assuming their Tango 6 is a 34mm tube. My EOTECH Vudu could zero too but was grossly off center.

After receiving the rifle back and using a vortex LHT 4.5-22 and a LHT 3-15, I have .6 mils of travel right (4.5-22) and .4 mils of travel to right with the (3-15). With the 4.5-22, this leaves 12.6 mils left for travel and more than that for the 3-15. This is still grossly out of alignment.

This measurement was achieved by using two different Seekins rings options. Using the same combination(s) on my Tikka T3, both scopes are almost dead center in their windage.

SIG’s repairs were able to gain me about .6 mils with aligning the handguard, which strengthens, for me, the case that the rail to barrel alignment interface is WAY OFF.

Not sure on my next step. I’ll recontact SIG, but I may have to settle for using a 35mm tube scope. I have a friend who just bought a CROSS, and he had similar issues with alignment. His rifle is not as bad as mine, but it was way off too. I’m curious if anyone else has issues.

I’m pretty diassapointed in SIG as I wrote a detailed letter explaining the issues. I would have liked to known their windage numbers before they sent it back to me as the whole point of this rifle was to use lighter 1” or 30mm scopes on a hunting rifle.

I should have bought another T3x in super light trim.

Blessings,
BC
 
Hello BELLYCRAWL
I have the same issue with my Sig Cross after zero @ 100 YRD
I only have 4.5 mil left windage usable
8 mill right windage usable almost complete turn of the turret
Using 34 mm scope Burris XTR ii
The same scope I removed from Ruger Precision Rifle was almost center for windage value L and R.
I send email to Sig and back and forth on the emails they want me to send it back but I am still against that.
Just to help you try this might work might not
Normally when we mount scope ring we always butt them FWD against the slots on the rail to prevent recoil moving the scope when all tightened up
Try to split the distance between the rail slots and have the rings cross pin or screw in the middle between 2 rail slots and see if you gain anything
Please all of you experts don’t hold that against me if I miss explained just trying to help based on a case I run to in the past
I run to a case on a different rifle and it worked perfect that rifle was very low recoil. Did not care much about replacing the rails Becuse it was not machined correct center
Regards
 
I'm really new to any longer range shooting. I didn't even bother to consider windage adjustment after sighting in.

It appears I may have similar problems though I'm not sure whether they are as drastic.

About 2 mil to the left
About 8 mil to the right

To be completely honest I've never adjusted for wind before so I don't know whether this adjustability is within a workable range or not.
 
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In my case not a big deal and this why I am not sending my rifle back to Sig
My scope have the H591 reticle based on power setting I have at lest extra 4 mills left
But the fact bugs me and keep circling in the back of my head
 
So I guess this is a warning for potential Cross buyers.

I received the rifle back from Sig. They aligned the handguard, but the misalignment of the scope interface to my zero is still way off. Sig CS communicated that it was “acceptable.”When asked to define acceptable, the answer was lacking as they only mentioned a Sig Tango 6 was able to zero the rifle at 25 yds. No info was given on the amount of windage left and right. I’m assuming their Tango 6 is a 34mm tube. My EOTECH Vudu could zero too but was grossly off center.

After receiving the rifle back and using a vortex LHT 4.5-22 and a LHT 3-15, I have .6 mils of travel right (4.5-22) and .4 mils of travel to right with the (3-15). With the 4.5-22, this leaves 12.6 mils left for travel and more than that for the 3-15. This is still grossly out of alignment.

This measurement was achieved by using two different Seekins rings options. Using the same combination(s) on my Tikka T3, both scopes are almost dead center in their windage.

SIG’s repairs were able to gain me about .6 mils with aligning the handguard, which strengthens, for me, the case that the rail to barrel alignment interface is WAY OFF.

Not sure on my next step. I’ll recontact SIG, but I may have to settle for using a 35mm tube scope. I have a friend who just bought a CROSS, and he had similar issues with alignment. His rifle is not as bad as mine, but it was way off too. I’m curious if anyone else has issues.

I’m pretty diassapointed in SIG as I wrote a detailed letter explaining the issues. I would have liked to known their windage numbers before they sent it back to me as the whole point of this rifle was to use lighter 1” or 30mm scopes on a hunting rifle.

I should have bought another T3x in super light trim.

Blessings,
BC
Would a receiver lapping tool for AR’s work on the cross?