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Newbie Asks: Why do you say the Production (Rifle) Division is a Joke?
- Thread starter TechPilot
- Start date
So go on and keep doubling down on stupid.
Smart people learn from the experiences of the others. Idiots ignore them and think they've figured it all out.
This is about to get out of hand. Everyone, go back and look at my idea.
However, one word about “production.” I’ve seen people squabbling over, complaining about, crying in their beer, pissin all over the ground about production firearms. There are two ways to classify firearms outside of caliber of round shot, and speed of bullet. One is a box rule. If it fits into a predefined box, which the interior is in the shape of a rifle having the perimeters desired. Or, put a limit on weight. Weight works great. Weigh that sucker, and if it weighs too much, can’t shoot. As black and white as can be under the Lords’s sun.
Or, combine the two.
However, I believe weight combined with certain elements (such as a steel barrel, no carbon fiber wrap or carbon fiber components) will fit your needs. Especailly if the weight is not excessive. Under 12 or under 13 pounds. Other limits can be imposed if desired such as max power of the scope, caliber restrictions (as in minimum power factor).
All the ideas mentioned in the above paragraph have been used, many successfully in other centerfire shooting sports. If the powers that be, really want to fix an unfixable system, to my thinking, weight is the only way to go.
However, one word about “production.” I’ve seen people squabbling over, complaining about, crying in their beer, pissin all over the ground about production firearms. There are two ways to classify firearms outside of caliber of round shot, and speed of bullet. One is a box rule. If it fits into a predefined box, which the interior is in the shape of a rifle having the perimeters desired. Or, put a limit on weight. Weight works great. Weigh that sucker, and if it weighs too much, can’t shoot. As black and white as can be under the Lords’s sun.
Or, combine the two.
However, I believe weight combined with certain elements (such as a steel barrel, no carbon fiber wrap or carbon fiber components) will fit your needs. Especailly if the weight is not excessive. Under 12 or under 13 pounds. Other limits can be imposed if desired such as max power of the scope, caliber restrictions (as in minimum power factor).
All the ideas mentioned in the above paragraph have been used, many successfully in other centerfire shooting sports. If the powers that be, really want to fix an unfixable system, to my thinking, weight is the only way to go.
If someone wants to handicap themselves with a carbon wrapped insulated barrel, let them.
I think a weight limit on factory guns makes a helluva lot more sense than a price cap equal to customs. Give the HMR’s and CTR’s a place to compete.
I think a weight limit on factory guns makes a helluva lot more sense than a price cap equal to customs. Give the HMR’s and CTR’s a place to compete.
This is just chasing a moving target outside of the sport's (and shooter's) control and a characteristic that has nothing to do with performance.
Just like MSRP.
@Dead Eye Dick has the right idea.
Depends on what you mean. The average target size may have been bumped slightly higher recently, but the small targets are only getting smaller.
I see more matches moving toward a "separator" model rather than an all out ball buster to keep the mid pack attendance healthy. That means the targets where you can gain ground on the field are smaller, but there are more meaty targets out there for mid and lower pack. Does that make the matches easier or harder? Depends on where you land in the lineup. They're harder to be in the top 5, but easier in the sense that your hit percentage will likely be higher.
Use Clay's match as an example. 2023 had pretty much .4 targets across the board in 15-30 mph winds. 2024 had more big-small target engagements. "Easier" match, but it was just as difficult to make the top 10 if not moreso.
This makes more sense than any other model I have seen (or shot at). Reminds me of the Altus Outlaw matches of recent.
You can’t keep a sport healthy by catering only to the “elite.” (The donks will get tired of killing dirt and find some other sand pile to play in) And there’s no interest or challenge or reason for the good shooters to stick around if they score a clean match every week (what is the point ).
Make it hard for the cool kids and give us donks something we can shoot at. Fun for all.
That's not true at all. The old skills stage with a 2 MOA target at 600 used to be a difficult target. Now a 2 MOA target is a meatball.
There were no skills stages as there was no PRS back then. We shot 6” movers at 500 yards. Hell we shot movers. Not many do that anymore. Also shot a lot of small paper targets but no paper either anymore.
Texas Precision Matches put a mover at their 500 y berm and I was super stoked, (‘17 or ‘18?). We shot it for maybe 2 matches and it went away. Well, it was still there, but not in the course of fire. It always irked me that it was RIGHT THERE but we weren’t shooting it. I assumed that peeps were shooting the mechanism and it was broken. Maybe there were complaints from the top. I drifted to other things not too long after- lockdown then HS shotgun for the oldest. Maybe they brought it back. Idk.
Movers aren't common anymore because they're difficult and expensive to get right. K&M can run them because their movers are purpose built into the range. They have electricity run underground so no generator problems. Berms protect the tracks and wheels, and the movers themselves are built like tanks because they stay put year round.
MD's on rented ground don't get those luxuries and going range cold 9 times a day isn't a good option. If you can't get it running again in under 5 min, chances are the stage gets tossed anyway.
I have not read the complete thread......
Having said that.....there is no reason the budget cap shouldn't be $1500 rifle and $1000k scope. There are plenty of great options within these budgets and it is low enough to keep the purpose built low cost items out of the class. Hell you might even get those companies to donate and sponsor.......go figure.
Ern
Having said that.....there is no reason the budget cap shouldn't be $1500 rifle and $1000k scope. There are plenty of great options within these budgets and it is low enough to keep the purpose built low cost items out of the class. Hell you might even get those companies to donate and sponsor.......go figure.
Ern
The reason is that boutique rifle builders can't build a custom rifle and make any money with those caps. A production minimum of 500 rifles is a joke for a "real" manufacturer. You could call the division the "wink wink production division."
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