Opinions, Please, on Turning a Very Nice 1903A3 into a 1903A1

[Flatbush Harry]

Some weeks ago I found and acquired a really nice RA 1903A3, ser. no. 4.1mm (late '43, I think). It both looks good and shoots even better with both HXP M2 Ball and Hornady M1 Garand Match 168gr A-MAX. I'm thinking of turning it into 1903A1, which would require the removal of the rear sight and drilling and tapping for a scope mount. I've considered either a Hi-Lux Wm. Malcolm Unertl 8x replica, or a Winchester B-5 scope from Montana Valley Arms, or even a Hi-Lux M82 scope replica.

I have both a local smith and CMP's Custom Shop who could do the work...and I have a very high regard for the CMP Custom Shop since I took the AMC in Anniston in Jan. 2015 and met Chris and crew.

Should I seriously consider this or pick up a Creedmor 1903A3 through CMP and mod that.

Your opinions are asked, and I will take them seriously.

Thanks,

Flatbush Harry

 

[sirhrmechanic]

If you have a really nice original.... don't mod it. They are getting too rare and valuable. If you can find one that's already been modified or otherwise messed with... you can likely bring it up to the standard/variant you want just as easily and then have a modified rifle... and a nice original.

So many of these have been monkey'd with over the years.... it's a good idea to keep the survivors as... survivors!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sandwarrior]

Why don't you ask either your smith or the CMP custom shop if they know where to get a restorable A1? The other thing I would say is don't ruin the best sights on those by taking it back to an A1 from an A3.

 

[kraigWY]

Keep the A3 as an A3, and start collecting the parts you need to make a A1.

You wont find an A1 that shoots like a A3 (mainly because of the sights) sniper versions not withstanding. At best you're gonna have a buggered up action where the A3 sights go.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I once owned a Smith Corona 1903A3 that someone had carried out your suggestion on. It was neither fish nor fowl. I sold it and immediately regretted doing so, but after much reflection, it was the right thing to do.

It shot great, and obviously, had some resale value, but in the end, it was just another kluge. Folks would look at it, ask me what it was, then shake their heads. Not in the best way, either.

If you want a nice 1903A1, do it the right way; find one and pay what they ask. There is no such thing as a sorta-1903A1.

Greg

 

[pmclaine]

You can not turn an A3 into an A1.

The receivers are different.

You can buy a CMP "C Stock" and put a pistol grip cut stock on your A3 making it more shooter friendly.

"A1" designation refers to an M1903 Springfield in a "C" stock with full pistol grip.

Very few true A1s were built but lots of standard 03s were rebuilt and stocked in "C" stocks.

An A3 is a war time emergency production rifle that used a lot of short cuts, changes in design, to expeditiously make rifles available to second echelon troops while the First to Fight were provided Garands.

Some '03 parts are utilized by match shooters to upgrade there A3's for match purposes. Milled bottom metal as an example.

You shouldn't build your A3 into anything that cant be built back. You have good reason now to buy a new rifle.

The tangent leaf sight '03 is a cool gun to shoot but it requires a site micrometer to make it really user friendly if trying for groups.

The sights on an '03 can be more accurate than those on the A3 if you have the eyes for it.

Both rifles require a certain bit of Kentucky windage.

These are my '03s that have been stocked in C stocks during their time in service. They are considered A1s by the US Army definition of the time, even a scant stock with the half pistol grip was an A1, but they were not specifically built as A1s as far as the records show.

 

[pmclaine]

Upon full reading of your post...

If you are looking to scope your rifle....

You could build an A4 which was the scoped sniper version of the A3 widely used in WWII and later as a sniper rifle.

You mention the William Malcolm scope and that would be used to build the USMC specific " Springfield 03 rifle with telescopic sight" sometimes called an M1941.

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You will be cutting and hacking an A3 in order to make it a M1941.

Better to get the right Springfield 03 rifle if you go that route.

Making your rifle an A4 requires some drilling and modification of the bolt handle.

Repro and original A4 scopes with Redfield Jr base are available

The Malcolm scope requires some reworking of Chinese parts in order to make it a good shooting scope. If you can find a Unertl do it but 8X models are pricey. I went with a 10X.

Id recommend CMP for the work as well as a party goes by the name Chuck in Denver.

 

[Ledzep]

I'll echo what others have said. The M1903a3, if original and in good shape, I would leave alone. Modifying an A3 receiver to get an M1903 receiver out of it is a lot of work to get something people will run away from if you ever want to resell.

If you want an M1903a1 target rifle, start with M1903 parts, or spend the money for a real M1903a1.
If you want an M1903a4, you could use your M1903a3, but honestly I'd start from parts for a replica sniper rifle, or again, save up the big bucks and buy an original.
If you want an M1903 w/Unertl set up, again I'd start with parts.

I built a USMC M1903 with Unertl bases, and it's a collection of parts (1918 receiver, 1942 barrel, brand new CMP stock set). It shoots great, but I had a hard time even convincing myself to drill and tap a parts rifle to make it. That said, I'm happy with it. Shoots the lights out with handloads.

 

[Random Guy]

"If you have a really nice original.... don't mod it. They are getting too rare and valuable. If you can find one that's already been modified or otherwise messed with... you can likely bring it up to the standard/variant you want just as easily and then have a modified rifle... and a nice original."

I agree, why destroy the value of a WWII era 1903A3? There are a lot of already "sporterized" 1903s and 1903A3s and even 1903A1 sniper replicas on the market that can be bought and used for what you are seeking to do. You could put a "WTB" ad on various forums and likely find a turn-key product or nearly turn-key rifle. If your 1943 A3 is really nice, keep it that way as its value will only go upward, but drilled holes in the receiver will destroy its value. My 2cts.

 

[Flatbush Harry]

Guys,

I really appreciate your comments and will follow the unanimous recommendations to keep these rifle as is. I can buy a 1903a3 or 1904A4 replica through CMP through Creedmor and will go that route for my Vintage Sniper rifle. I thank you all for your consideration and help. This very nice rifle will stay as I found it and hope that, when I'm near to passing, will find a fellow lover of history and fine arms.

I'll try to post some pics of this rifle below.

Cheers, and best, regards,

Harry

PS-my cousin Joel brought home a 1903 drill rifle upon his discharge from the Army in 1954, when I was 8, and I fell in love with them then.

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nQmLMP4.jpg

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cHCO2S7.jpg

 

[sandwarrior]

Guys,

I really appreciate your comments and will follow the unanimous recommendations to keep these rifle as is. I can buy a 1903a3 or 1904A4 replica through CMP through Creedmor and will go that route for my Vintage Sniper rifle. I thank you all for your consideration and help. This very nice rifle will stay as I found it and hope that, when I'm near to passing, will find a fellow lover of history and fine arms.

I'll try to post some pics of this rifle below.

Cheers, and best, regards,

Harry

PS-my cousin Joel brought home a 1903 drill rifle upon his discharge from the Army in 1954, when I was 8, and I fell in love with them then.

oueyhRI.jpg

GuejmGe.jpg

nQmLMP4.jpg

D3byAe2.jpg

cHCO2S7.jpg

i had to laugh. I checked out your photos and hit "next" thinking it would take me to the next pic. Instead, I get police K-9 opening a door with a whirlybird hat on.

That is an absolutely gorgeous rifle. Don't change it. shoot it as is an appreciate it.

 

[pmclaine]

Thats a great looking A3.

 

[cplnorton]

If you sort of want to see the 1903A1 USMC sniper next to the 1903A4 Army sniper. Here are two side by side so you can sort of see the differences.

 

[ScharfshutzeK98]

As others have stated why not try to rescue a sporter that was already D&T'd? I may be wrong but the reproduction snipers may have been available with match barrels.

 

[Flatbush Harry]

Thanks to all for your comments and suggestions. I appreciate your consideration of my questions, and as noted earlier, will keep my 03A3 as is.

Cheers,

Harry