Rifle Scopes OPTICS NOT MADE IN CHINA.

#51
308pirate said:
Get ready to sell every fucking vehicle you own. Not a single one of them, regardless of the brand, is 100% made in the USA according to your definition.

A lot people on this thread don't understand the realities of modern manufacturing businesses. You guys probably think GMC and Chevy trucks are different and made in GMC plants and Chevy plants.......
Click to expand...

Nah, I think we all understand that Chinesium is in everything we own. Like the OP, I understand it’s impossible to buy 100% made in USA. Hell, even 50% made in USA. Our goal should be to do what we can to reduce the Red Spread by being more conscientious about who we give our money to.
 
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#55
clcustom1911 said:
Most of Trijicon is USA, with the exception of their accupower and accupoint line which are assembled here, but source parts from Japan and Czech Republic.

I'm good with that.
Click to expand...

Their thermal stuff is US-made as are the iron sights. Everything else is mostly Japan. With ACOGs, I think all the optomechanical stuff is made in Japan, but the eyepieces and objectives come here as separate pieces. They add tritium and fiberoptic stuff fin the US, then attach the eyepiece to the body.

The RMRs and other red dot sights they make are likely built here now that I think about it, but anything magnified is mostly from Japan.

Given the current political situation, I do not think anyone has any major issues with Japan. By the way, it looks like Japanese government will be strongly insentivising Japanese companies to diversify their supply chains away from China.

ILya
 
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#56
Schott Glass has a factory in china, and many of the names people associate with quality also get stuff from there.

How do you think smaller OEM scopes and stuff like lower budget builds from bigger companies happen. They just use Chinese glass from a different name, same origin, just rebranded. Glass is discreet, you can make it to any spec you want it's just complicated sand.

It's not uncommon, like guys saying USO is using Schott Glass, I spent time there, and never saw Schott Glass. At Shot Show John Sr always hung with the Chinese from Asian Optics which previously was Hakko, which is how Horus got their start, from USO and Hakko. Same when I was at Leupold, I saw the boxes of lenses, the writing is not German, or English. They come in optical packs.

Sure you can try to avoid Chinese made stuff, but I think if you strip away the marketing and propaganda there are a lot more Chinese origins than people realize.
 
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#57
Birddog6424 said:
You're accurate that the XTR3 uses foreign parts. The glass is sourced from Japan.

But the reticle is etched in Greeley. As well as the entirety of remaining parts and pieces. The scope was designed from the ground up in Greeley Colorado, and is fabricated and assembled there.

So it's about as American made as a fella could hope for these days.
Click to expand...

Apparently still not enough to warrant a "Made In USA" label. Which by this thread is becoming a more prestigious feature.
 
#58
308pirate said:
Get ready to sell every fucking vehicle you own. Not a single one of them, regardless of the brand, is 100% made in the USA according to your definition.

A lot people on this thread don't understand the realities of modern manufacturing businesses. You guys probably think GMC and Chevy trucks are different and made in GMC plants and Chevy plants.......
Click to expand...

Tesla?
 
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#59
I have been to the Greeley Factory, it's super small.

It's more a warehouse and place they batch check. Yes they have a design lab, and they do make things, but the one-off designs before they are put into production. And the Cleanroom is pretty new, I was there once prior to its creation, and then after.

Unless Greeley added a building and a factory, it's just a lab there, and place they can batch test inventory. They had pallets of scopes and the workers would take some and test them for QC.

I have been to Leupold, the Old USO, Burris/Steiner, Kahles / Swarovski, and others, compared, USO and Burris are more like labs, even Kahles is small but has Swarovski support to handle things not completed inhouse.
 
#60
If you want to know glass origins, look at the Telescope forums and website,

Those guys are 100x worse than we are, and they KNOW their glass assemblies. These guys can recite every lense in the optic and where they came from. It's crazy, and funny because guys come on all the time like Telescope Philip and want to claim stuff like Schott glass and they correct them, "Schott doesn't make that lens, with that coating, it's Fuji, blah, blah, they know the codes and origins.

Many of us, think we know, they know,

 
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#61
2aBaCa said:
Tesla?
Click to expand...
Maybe.....but California and Nevada absolutely do not have the concentration of tier 2, 3, and 4 automotive suppliers that the I-75 corridor from Michigan to Tennessee has.

I bet there's more Mexican and Asian shit in a Tesla than in a US built Honda or Acura.
 
#62
I don't speak lawyer talk.... so on the bottom of a Leupold when it says - USA Designed, Machined, and one more thing- maybe assembled? (don't stare at the bottom of my scopes very much) the internals could still come from anywhere?

I did wonder why they didn't just say "made in USA". Still better than buying a scope where none of those things take place here.
 
#63
308pirate said:
Get ready to sell every fucking vehicle you own. Not a single one of them, regardless of the brand, is 100% made in the USA according to your definition.

A lot people on this thread don't understand the realities of modern manufacturing businesses. You guys probably think GMC and Chevy trucks are different and made in GMC plants and Chevy plants.......
Click to expand...
?????????
Exactly.
 
#65
Yes, there is a very poor quality schott glass that is licensed in China. That is not the same glass as what you will find in european alpha scopes. And it's important to keep in mind that the video is made by vortex. Naturally their explanations and the information they choose to present is designed to ehance the salability of their product.
 
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#67
SmartDonkey said:
I don't speak lawyer talk.... so on the bottom of a Leupold when it says - USA Designed, Machined, and one more thing- maybe assembled? (don't stare at the bottom of my scopes very much) the internals could still come from anywhere?

I did wonder why they didn't just say "made in USA". Still better than buying a scope where none of those things take place here.
Click to expand...
it's because of the truth in labeling law. Some of their products are assembled in the USA. But the components are not all made here. All Leupold glass is Asian. Some Japanese, some chinese. they used to say that on their website, just like they used to say that their scopes are not as bright as some counterparts because their erector systems are designed to allow for more windage and elevation.
 
#70
My input: Scopes/Optics are more of a matter of buying into confidence imho. You want to be confident your purchase gives no remorse and that the product your buying will stand the test of time/accidents and be True to what its designed for. Buying an "American" made scope isnt like buying an American made knife per say, a custom knife is simple to manufacture but takes alot of skilled labor. The knife has way less raw material going into it, that can be had locally, steel and hand grip material,maybe kydex for a sheath...a rifle scope/telescoptic sight on the other hand has many, many parts, and the chance that each and everyone of those little parts are made here is truely unfathomable to me, these days at least. Its a world market, and companies look for the lowest cost for their desired requirements needed to accomplish that. So if I were to suggest getting a "quality" optic, Id look to where they have the Most control over their Own products, A Reputable company, and a Proven track record to match. If you want to buy a "Good" optic, go to a "Good" company. They should be able to distill Confidence in your purchase Reguardless of where its made, minus Chicom.

-Reagan
 
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#72
lowlight said:
I have been to the Greeley Factory, it's super small.

It's more a warehouse and place they batch check. Yes they have a design lab, and they do make things, but the one-off designs before they are put into production. And the Cleanroom is pretty new, I was there once prior to its creation, and then after.

Unless Greeley added a building and a factory, it's just a lab there, and place they can batch test inventory. They had pallets of scopes and the workers would take some and test them for QC.

I have been to Leupold, the Old USO, Burris/Steiner, Kahles / Swarovski, and others, compared, USO and Burris are more like labs, even Kahles is small but has Swarovski support to handle things not completed inhouse.
Click to expand...

Ilya was at the Burris facility just before they began production of the XTR3. He may have more insight on it.

But folks at Burris have been clear that with the exception of the glass, all production is in Greeley. Maybe they appropriated someone's corner office. ;)
 
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#73
Birddog6424 said:
Ilya was at the Burris facility just before they began production of the XTR3. He may have more insight on it.

But folks at Burris have been clear that with the exception of the glass, all production is in Greeley. Maybe they appropriated someone's corner office. ;)
Click to expand...

They had to re-organize the place a little and kick out some non-engineering folk to another location a couple of miles out, but they do build stuff in Greeley and QC scopes that come from overseas.

Tubes and some other critical components are machined in house, glass is farmed out (some to Steiner in Germany, some to Asia), assembly is done in Greeley. The only Burris products built that way are XTR3. The rest of what they build there is Steiner: T5Xi and a couple of other models that are sold in Europe.

ILya
 
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#75
I've bought a variety of Nightforce NXS and Atacr scopes in last 2 years. All used. All say Made in USA on top. So guessing other than the Atacr, they must be 6 years old or older. Actually pretty happy to have them and quite pleased with them. In the current world environment, I'd have no issue using Japanese made optics.
 
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#76
This is not true. If it says Leupold on it, and it goes on a rifle or pistol, its "designed, manufactured, and assembled" in their plant in Oregon. That is what i got directly from one of their customer service dudes.
[/QUOTE]

leupold does not make their own glass. period. end of story. it is all from asia. Leupold puts together components at their plant in Oregon.

what small parts are made where or where the scope was designed has nothing to do with what I said.

Leupold has modified their website many times over the years, with information being added or changed.
currently this is all they will disclose:
  1. Where does Leupold get its glass?
  2. At this time, there are no American manufacturers that can supply enough high quality lenses to support our Golden Ring Optics production. Our lens systems are designed at Leupold, by American optical engineers, in our state-of -the-art optics labs. The glass is then procured from vendors who must meet stringent quality standards. Incoming parts are carefully inspected in our testing facility before they are accepted into the build process.

FAQS

We’ve been making world-class optics that bear our family name for over 100 years. We honor that legacy every day as we design, machine and assemble…
www.leupold.com www.leupold.com
 
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#77
30338 said:
I've bought a variety of Nightforce NXS and Atacr scopes in last 2 years. All used. All say Made in USA on top. So guessing other than the Atacr, they must be 6 years old or older. Actually pretty happy to have them and quite pleased with them. In the current world environment, I'd have no issue using Japanese made optics.
Click to expand...

All my NXS said made in Japan on them but haven't had one in about 8 years.
 
#79
Birddog6424 said:
You're accurate that the XTR3 uses foreign parts. The glass is sourced from Japan.

But the reticle is etched in Greeley. As well as the entirety of remaining parts and pieces. The scope was designed from the ground up in Greeley Colorado, and is fabricated and assembled there.

So it's about as American made as a fella could hope for these days.
Click to expand...
It's fucking sad that this is now acceptable and true...
 
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#80
I would like to add, Im pretty sure that Leupold who like many others outsource their glass, still has QC requirments reguardless of what country is selling the glass needed to them, that tue glass has to meet. Leupold also does most of the scope body and erector tube manufacturing in-house...that might be as American made as you can get these days...

-Reagan
 
#81
Darayavaus said:
This is not true. If it says Leupold on it, and it goes on a rifle or pistol, its "designed, manufactured, and assembled" in their plant in Oregon. That is what i got directly from one of their customer service dudes.
Click to expand...

leupold does not make their own glass. period. end of story. it is all from asia. Leupold puts together components at their plant in Oregon.

what small parts are made where or where the scope was designed has nothing to do with what I said.

Leupold has modified their website many times over the years, with information being added or changed.
currently this is all they will disclose:
  1. Where does Leupold get its glass?
  2. At this time, there are no American manufacturers that can supply enough high quality lenses to support our Golden Ring Optics production. Our lens systems are designed at Leupold, by American optical engineers, in our state-of -the-art optics labs. The glass is then procured from vendors who must meet stringent quality standards. Incoming parts are carefully inspected in our testing facility before they are accepted into the build process.

FAQS

We’ve been making world-class optics that bear our family name for over 100 years. We honor that legacy every day as we design, machine and assemble…
www.leupold.com www.leupold.com
[/QUOTE]
yes, they dont make their own glass. like 99.99% of the rest of the scope companies. Which is why im guessing they dont write 'made in US'.

Is your position that they don't design, manufacture, and assemble in oregon? From the youtube videos i have seen it appears they make a lot of the scope parts (maintubes, small parts, dials, dialsystems) at their plant.
 
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#82
[/QUOTE]
Is your position that they don't design, manufacture, and assemble in oregon?
[/QUOTE]

not trying to sound too frustrated here, but reading is fundamental.
I've said numerous times in this thread that Leupold does not make their own glass, it's either chinese or japanese.

whatever else you guys are trying to force into my posts....well I have no control over that. As I said,
Darayavaus said:
it's because of the truth in labeling law. Some of their products are assembled in the USA.
Click to expand...
the glass is the most important part of any optical device. I don't care if they screw it together and glue the golden ring on in Oregon.
 
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#83
I have built Remington 700 M40 Viet Nam War era clone sniper rifles. All I use is Redfield scopes, bases and rings from the mid to late 1960s and all were made here in the good ole USA. I do have an M40 clone in .223 that has a Leupold 6-18×40 AR scope on it. From what I read here I'm surprised the parts are outsourced. I always thought They were made here. They have great warranties though, the scope works great too. No problems with any Leupy I've never owned.
 
#84
308pirate said:
My Accord is one of the absolute most American (by value content) vehicles sold in this country today.
  • Engine manufactured at Honda's Anna, OH engine manufacturing plant
  • Body stampings made at Honda's Marysville, OH assembly plant and at KTH's St Paris, OH stamping plant
  • All sorts of components (fuel, exhaust, electronics, interiors, etc) manufactured at a slew of American, European, and Japanese parts makers with American plants all over the Midwest
  • Vehicle assembly at Honda's Marysville, OH assembly (since 1982)
  • The only foreign major component is the 6 speed manual transmission, made at a Honda plant in India. Accords with automatic transmissions get them from Honda's Russell's Point OH transmission manufacturing plant
Click to expand...

I got some crap from a family member when I bought my first new Accord in 2009: “Why didn’t you buy an American car?” I got a kick out of showing him that my Hondas were built in Ohio, while his Impala was built in Mexico.

Still have that 2009, going strong at 164k miles with just scheduled maintenance, tires and brake pads. Bought the wife a new 2020 Accord Sport 2.0t 6M in November. Love that car.
 
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#85
Tac Beard said:
Bought the wife a new 2020 Accord Sport 2.0t 6M in November. Love that car.
Click to expand...

Ohhhh yeeaaahhhhhh..............The only reason I have the same car with a 1.5T is because I didn't want debt. Paid that motherfucker with cold hard cash on the spot. I would have had to borrow another 5K and I just want to owe no one.

My other Honda is a 2010 Fit. I passed it to my kid with 235,000 miles on it. The only thing that has broken in it was the alternator, and that happend after the 190K mile mark.

Made in Japan, USA, Mexico, Canada, or the UK, doesn't matter. Hondas are just outstandingly well made.
 
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#86
Tac Beard said:
I got some crap from a family member when I bought my first new Accord in 2009: “Why didn’t you buy an American car?” I got a kick out of showing him that my Hondas were built in Ohio, while his Impala was built in Mexico.
Click to expand...

:D @Tac Beard

This was 6 years ago and they just keep on coming
1586566973769.png


Four years later, another 5 million Hondas down the lines
1586567131245.png


Marysville, Ohio's Honda Performance Assembly center. The only place in the world where the $160,000 NSX is manufactured. Not in Japan. Less than 60 miles from home......
1586567245104.png
 
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#87
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#88
2aBaCa said:
Tesla?
Click to expand...

Yes even the Tesla. Quick search and look what you can find. That’s just the batteries. I am sure there are plenty of other parts that are not made in the U.S.A.

www.nasdaq.com

Who Are Tesla's Lithium Suppliers?

Tesla 's (NASDAQ: TSLA) appetite for lithium is becoming increasingly ravenous as the electric-vehicle (EV) pioneer ramps up production of the Model.
www.nasdaq.com www.nasdaq.com
 
#89
Man, I'm late to this thread. Which sucks in it's own right.

Unless you absolutely know that all raw materials are sourced from all countries outside of China, it would be an absolute tragedy to back a product up because of it's origin then come to find out, it got sourced from cheapland.

Say if ZCO or (interject your favorite scope manufacturer) had the flag tattooed on their chest and rested assured that ALL materials where not touched by China or Russia or whatever the shit communist counties exists in the world then come to find out their lying to get a sale, who are you going to trust then?

Find a damn lathe, dig material with your hands, and make the product.
 
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#90
#91
alfmoonspace said:
Man, I'm late to this thread. Which sucks in it's own right.

Unless you absolutely know that all raw materials are sourced from all countries outside of China, it would be an absolute tragedy to back a product up because of it's origin then come to find out, it got sourced from cheapland.

Say if ZCO or (interject your favorite scope manufacturer) had the flag tattooed on their chest and rested assured that ALL materials where not touched by China or Russia or whatever the shit communist counties exists in the world then come to find out their lying to get a sale, who are you going to trust then?

Find a damn lathe, dig material with your hands, and make the product.
Click to expand...

This.

You won’t find ANY products NOT infected with Chinesium unless it’s a company who starts from the ground up by sourcing every atom themselves. You can’t eliminate China on the first day, but you can work to reduce your commie footprint. It’s going to take a LOOOONG time and a lot of concerted effort by a lot of people for this shift to take place. So let the shift start with us.

Once you’ve accepted that almost everything you own is the product of totalitarian Communist slave labor, you can either begin to do something about it or... accept that you’re funding our destruction.
 
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#92
So say I’m buying a scope from company X which offers several different models/tiers in terms of quality and price. Top tier having less Chinese components and more comprised of parts from friendly countries or even the USA. Lower tiers being straight up Chinese.

I purchase that high tier scope feeling good about not supporting the Chinese economy/government. With my purchase and that of many other customers, Company X grows allowing them to invest more with their Chinese partners to develop and manufacture their low tier scopes which is probably what most average shooters buy.

At the same time, Company X is largely U.S. based and my purchase will also be directly supporting U.S. jobs.

Seems like maybe the only way to minimally support China in your optics buying decisions is with high end European, TT (Canadian right?) or ZCO. So ZCO is your answer.

Not a troll post. Just a little thought experiment. I’d love to have a ZCO someday. For now I’m quite happy with my Vortex’s. AMG, RZR I & II, PST I & II, and some other Chinese ones probably.
 
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#93
seafury said:
So say I’m buying a scope from company X which offers several different models/tiers in terms of quality and price. Top tier having less Chinese components and more comprised of parts from friendly countries or even the USA. Lower tiers being straight up Chinese.

I purchase that high tier scope feeling good about not supporting the Chinese economy/government. With my purchase and that of many other customers, Company X grows allowing them to invest more with their Chinese partners to develop and manufacture their low tier scopes which is probably what most average shooters buy.

At the same time, Company X is largely U.S. based and my purchase will also be directly supporting U.S. jobs.

Seems like maybe the only way to minimally support China in your optics buying decisions is with high end European, TT (Canadian right?) or ZCO. So ZCO is your answer.

Not a troll post. Just a little thought experiment. I’d love to have a ZCO someday. For now I’m quite happy with my Vortex’s. AMG, RZR I & II, PST I & II, and some other Chinese ones probably.
Click to expand...

If only there was some other country that could be an alternative...
 
#95
I get the feeling that the attempt to move to the US is why we aren't seeing all that much out of Vortex. Everything sent to China can basically be considered open source with the way they treat intellectual property.

You won't find much in the way of pure american glass. It's not necessarily a bad thing either. Germans and the Japanese know how to make some damn good glass, and they aren't commies.
 
#97
seafury said:
So say I’m buying a scope from company X which offers several different models/tiers in terms of quality and price. Top tier having less Chinese components and more comprised of parts from friendly countries or even the USA. Lower tiers being straight up Chinese.

I purchase that high tier scope feeling good about not supporting the Chinese economy/government. With my purchase and that of many other customers, Company X grows allowing them to invest more with their Chinese partners to develop and manufacture their low tier scopes which is probably what most average shooters buy.

At the same time, Company X is largely U.S. based and my purchase will also be directly supporting U.S. jobs.

Seems like maybe the only way to minimally support China in your optics buying decisions is with high end European, TT (Canadian right?) or ZCO. So ZCO is your answer.

Not a troll post. Just a little thought experiment. I’d love to have a ZCO someday. For now I’m quite happy with my Vortex’s. AMG, RZR I & II, PST I & II, and some other Chinese ones probably.
Click to expand...
buy Meopta. they are made in the friendly Czech republic. They had been assembling scopes in NY, but that socialist republic apparently ran them out, so the headquarters went to Florida, and the manufacturing went back to Europe. Or get Zeiss. Their top tier stuff is peerless. And Germany isn't bad. Good food. Merkel might look like Hermann Goering in drag, but otherwise it's a decent country.
 
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#98
White_Shark said:
I got to tour the Vortex office and production floor where they make the AMG, it was very cool to see how they make the components and the types of gaging they used. An incredibly awesome facility.
Click to expand...
Darayavaus said:
buy Meopta. they have their own excellent glass, and are made in the friendly Czech republic. They had been assembling scopes in NY, but that socialist republic apparently ran them out, so the headquarters went to Florida, and the manufacturing went back to Europe. Or get Zeiss. Their top tier stuff is peerless. And Germany isn't bad. Good food. Merkel might look like Hermann Goering in drag, but otherwise it's a decent country.
Click to expand...
thats is some funny shit, Hermann goering in drag. I bet she makes man grunts in bed, but then again I bet most German women do.
 
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#100
seafury said:
So say I’m buying a scope from company X which offers several different models/tiers in terms of quality and price. Top tier having less Chinese components and more comprised of parts from friendly countries or even the USA. Lower tiers being straight up Chinese.

I purchase that high tier scope feeling good about not supporting the Chinese economy/government. With my purchase and that of many other customers, Company X grows allowing them to invest more with their Chinese partners to develop and manufacture their low tier scopes which is probably what most average shooters buy.

At the same time, Company X is largely U.S. based and my purchase will also be directly supporting U.S. jobs.

Seems like maybe the only way to minimally support China in your optics buying decisions is with high end European, TT (Canadian right?) or ZCO. So ZCO is your answer.

Not a troll post. Just a little thought experiment. I’d love to have a ZCO someday. For now I’m quite happy with my Vortex’s. AMG, RZR I & II, PST I & II, and some other Chinese ones probably.
Click to expand...


These companies will react to demand. Even though they resell alot of chicom junk, if demand drops for the Chinese stuff and increases for the US, Euro and Jap made stuff, you can bet they will buy/produce what is selling.

In my opinion, our government owns the biggest share of the blame here, not the consumer. The consumer is going to purchase what they perceive to be the best value for the dollar. For the average scope buyer, if they can see through it, its good enough. They don't need quality, or even know what it is.

As long as our governments policy is to allow tariff free imports of Chinese manufactured goods in exchange tariff free exports of farm goods, the Chinese slave labor imports will be the best deal for consumers. They have a comparitive advantage in manufacturing due to slave labor.

The challenge to bringing back manufacturing is that we will have to trade away some of our farming industry in order to get it back.

If our government raised the end user price of Chinese imports using tariffs, it would start bringing back domestic manufacturing. Of course China would retaliate with tariffs on our farmed goods. We would be trading one industry for another.

This has been known forever, and was done on purpose. Manufacturing is dirty, and farms comparatively clean. The decision was made to trade away our polluting industries for cleaner farms.

Examples of this were recently played out. When Trump started imposing tariffs on China, the US farm industry was the first and most vocal in crying foul. More local metal suppliers were carrying steel from US mills, but the prices were higher.

Our local dairy farms were pissed, because they are used to selling every gallon of milk they produced to China. Chinese demand for dairy dropped when they retaliated with tariffs.
 
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