Rifle Scopes OPTICS NOT MADE IN CHINA.

[EJ1001]

We screwed the pooch a long time ago when we went global and let China become a powerhouse. Our own fault.

+100 to this. Forward thinking for corporate profits, short sighted in respect to long term strategic advantage for the US. Say what you want about the 'service economy', the real value/power is in the ability to make stuff. We survived the 40's on our ability to make more stuff quicker than our enemies. Memories are short and I guess we collectively forgot that lesson.

@army-eod, you're right.. It is our fault, or was our fault from behaviors a while back. We have an appetite for the lowest possible price - we are addicted to it.

What if we never let the majority of our manufacturing go over seas? What if we continued to invest in manufacturing here and focus on efficiencies and automation (all the rage now anyway) and built up that infrastructure and capacity? I bet we would benefit now from the economies of scale in the form of reasonable prices for things made in America. At least we would have more opportunities to buy American than today.

I won't even start on "globalization" as I'll just get more pissed than I already am...

Sorry for the rant - this whole thing just really angers me as 30 yrs ago anyone could have seen the rise of China coming if they put some thought into it.

Back to topic - I'll try my best to avoid buying a Chinese scope, but like most Americans I don't have a money tree or trust fund, so I have to balance my wants and desires against what is fits my family budget. For now a max of $1K for a scope will have to do for me.

 

[seanh]

If the goal is to find 100% us made you're going to have an extremely difficult time doing so. It's been awhile since I've done this but what I found, when pressed, was that even us manufacturers of Optics here in the Statesgot their blanks from Japan or Germany. Hell, even Zeiss was getting their glass from Japan for a while.

 

[rainshot]

A lot of things go together to make China products sell. Labor here is high and China's labor costs are miniscule. We've allowed them shipping enhancements. The EPA, OSHA and other agencies have hamstrung our manufacturing. They manipulate their money.
The government sued Redfield for dumping "toxic waste" into a river. (creek?) Never said what it was. It could have been anything from a dirty diaper to sodium cyanide. Nobody makes glass here. As far as i know there's only Schott and Light Optic.

It's what we've made it over the years. Leupold puts together stuff with parts made elsewhere I think. They have a hard time competing with the Asian imports. Their warrantee has been good but is changing. You can send your scope in and they'll fix it or check it but won't upgrade it.

It's what it is and that's what we've got to work with. It could get better if we'd quit electing democrats but that won't happen.

 

[koshkin]

LOW makes so many scopes now that I’ve lost count! Most of what LOW makes is pretty good. I’m a big fan of the LOW made Brownell’s MPO scopes. Yeah to the OP, no rifle scopes are 100% American just like no vehicles are 100% Am.

MPO is not made by LOW.

There are four OEMs in Japan, including LOW.

ILya

 

[hunter8793]

MPO is not made by LOW.

There are four OEMs in Japan, including LOW.

ILya

Which one is the best? Or is it all just made to spec?

 

[acudaowner]

snb German not made in china yet , zeise German unless they went Japanese / Chinese glass to cut cost , Ior Romania German glass assembled in Bucharest there are a few more

 

[koshkin]

Which one is the best? Or is it all just made to spec?

LOW and Kenko are probably the best with LOW definitely being the better known one. Some Kenko designs are really stepping up though.
JOL has had a rough patch, but this latest batch of designs like MPO and Crimson Trace are looking pretty good. Their 3-18x50 is definitely one of the better designs for the money out there.
Tokyo Scope is the one I am least familiar with, but their reflex sights are very good. Quite a few Japanese reflex sights come from them and I have been uniformly impressed with the build quality.

ILya

 

[gdonley308]

MPO is not made by LOW.

There are four OEMs in Japan, including LOW.

ILya

Who’s making the MPO’s then? Brownell’s says 100% Japanese?

 

[daylate]

Who’s making the MPO’s then? Brownell’s says 100% Japanese?

I think he said JOL which is a one of the four Japanese companies I presume...I think the crimson trace 5 series made in Japan while the 3series are made in the phillipines and down from there

 

[JMGlasgow]

A lot of things go together to make China products sell. Labor here is high and China's labor costs are miniscule. We've allowed them shipping enhancements. The EPA, OSHA and other agencies have hamstrung our manufacturing. They manipulate their money.
The government sued Redfield for dumping "toxic waste" into a river. (creek?) Never said what it was. It could have been anything from a dirty diaper to sodium cyanide. Nobody makes glass here. As far as i know there's only Schott and Light Optic.

It's what we've made it over the years. Leupold puts together stuff with parts made elsewhere I think. They have a hard time competing with the Asian imports. Their warrantee has been good but is changing. You can send your scope in and they'll fix it or check it but won't upgrade it.

It's what it is and that's what we've got to work with. It could get better if we'd quit electing democrats but that won't happen.

The Vortex AMG 6-24 has glass made in the USA in it. The only thing not made in the USA in that scope is the reticle, which is made in Germany.

 

[koshkin]

I think he said JOL which is a one of the four Japanese companies I presume...I think the crimson trace 5 series made in Japan while the 3series are made in the phillipines and down from there

Correct. There are a lot of similarities between MPO and Crimson Trace 5-series and both are made by JOL.

ILya

 

[gdonley308]

Correct. There are a lot of similarities between MPO and Crimson Trace 5-series and both are made by JOL.

ILya

The MPO (I have the 5-25x56) seems to be very good quality. At $1000 it’s a very good buy.

 

[AllAheadFull]

Thanks for this post. Doing my best to NOT buy anything from China when I have the choice.

 

[arob]

Some of the Kalhles are made in Greeley as well.

This is not correct

 

[Bender]

This is not correct

Really..... lol

@JMGlasgow, check it out.

 

[JMGlasgow]

I've never seen any Kahles scopes being assembled in Greeley at Burris, or had any sent in for repairs. They did make scopes for Springfield, Pentax, Ruger, and a few others. Obviously Steiner has scopes manufactured there as well.

 

[Bender]

Really..... lol

@JMGlasgow, check it out.

Welp. I’m retarded. I was thinking Steiner not Kahles lol. My bad.

 

[gdonley308]

trijicon makes a great product, and they are not produced by our enemies the chinese.

Except my MRO died in my safe? Sent it back, they replaced it two years ago. Now in two years, on setting 2 where it should have a 5 year battery life, battery died?I love my ACOGs but not impressed with the MRO. For red dots I’ll stick with Aimpoint.

 

[707FreedomFan]

This is a great thread, but I was hoping for a full listing of optics models with manufacturing origins ha

This guy has a good start, but as pointed out in the thread, "assembled in" isn't half the story.

Optics Database


I'm intending to get in to manufacturing, and thusly am vigorously opposing supporting Chinese manufacturing.

I bought some Keen shoes, "Built in USA"
Some stitching failed (let's assume the worst where the stitching was done ha) revealing some Chinese characters printed on a major component, felt duped but what did I expect ha

Landed here looking for non-Chicom binos. Shattered my illusions seeing the Vortex Razor HD was made in China. Really bummed.. Not just because I was being guided there, but I thought that was all Japanese, the Razor line.

All the guys who post things like "I don't care if it's Chinese if the quality is there" or "I'll buy Chinese at the value price point" or the absolute worst most ignorant "It's Chinese with (US/German/Japanese) QC"... Heeyy Yyoouuu gguuuyyyyyssss, wake up, you're funding the enemy at every level. Live with principles, or live without them.. Have a backbone, make a sacrifice. Bunch of A holes with duplicity of gear setups afforded by funding communism. Don't blame the government either because you're a lazy, greedy d bag!

Love you guys though ha
I'll have your back when the commies come ha

 

[Maggot]

A bunch of companies make glass in the US, but it is not coming used in higher end products, not riflescopes.

There most prominent is probably Corning.

ILya

Corning made the mirrors/glass for the Hubble Space telescope. Then when they found out it was just a hair off our astronauts went out and fixed it. Touch that shit, China.

Murica.

 

[Milf Dots]

For those who want to be patriotic and ethical but don't know where to start, it's fairly easy, just avoid the chinese, turkish, and UAE owned companies in the gun industry. Take two minutes to research the background of a company.

 

[cschastain2]

Corning made the mirrors/glass for the Hubble Space telescope. Then when they found out it was just a hair off our astronauts went out and fixed it. Touch that shit, China.

Murica.

That is funny...and true

 

[PaulHAW]

That is funny...and true

The Hubble telescope glass was made by Perkin-Elmer Corporation. The best glass in the world is Schott Glass which all High end optics uses (Leica, Swaro, Zeiss S&B) and is 100% owned by Zeiss. No US glass makes make glass for rifle scopes.

 

[JMGlasgow]

The Hubble telescope glass was made by Perkin-Elmer Corporation. The best glass in the world is Schott Glass which all High end optics uses (Leica, Swaro, Zeiss S&B) and is 100% owned by Zeiss. No US glass makes make glass for rifle scopes.

Wrong

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Wrong

About what part?

 

[Rob01]

No US glass makes make glass for rifle scopes.

Wrong. AMG uses US glass.

 

[SlimBlundt]

I believe the mil Trijicon optics (SARS, ACOG, VCOG) may use US-made lenses as well. Not sure

 

[JMGlasgow]

About what part?

What Rob01 already pointed out. Vortex AMG uses USA made lenses.

 

[PaulHAW]

Wrong. AMG uses US glass.

Please tell us the name of the glass manufacturer then? Vortex does not have a furnace so please share.

 

[Rob01]

Please tell us the name of the glass manufacturer then? Vortex does not have a furnace so please share.

You will have to ask Vortex. I did not say they made it in house but they use US made glass. It’s a well known fact as the AMG was 100% made in the US until the reticle maker couldn’t keep up so they went with a German reticle. Other than that all US including glass.

 

[PaulHAW]

You will have to ask Vortex. I did not say they made it in house but they use US made glass. It’s a well known fact as the AMG was 100% made in the US until the reticle maker couldn’t keep up so they went with a German reticle. Other than that all US including glass.

Well considering I sold millions and millions of dollars worth of Vortex optics I might have a clue. No optical glass maker in the US, best glass in the world is all Schott Glass which is why every expensive scope in the world gladly advertises it. The AMG is a very very excellent scope regardless. Lots of companies charge 2K for a scope made in Japan eve let alone assembled in the US. FYI I would not want a scope with glass made in the US anyway. Nikon, LOW, Schott in Japan and others have been doing Optical glass for a very very long time. All your good cameras are German or Japanese as well. Corning made the sheet of glass for the telescope, but Perkin-Elmer Corporation is who ground it, polished it and screwed it up.

 

[Rob01]

Well considering I sold millions and millions of dollars worth of Vortex optics I might have a clue. No optical glass maker in the US, best glass in the world is all Schott Glass which is why every expensive scope in the world gladly advertises it.

Well guess you know more than Vortex about their products. Lol

 

[JMGlasgow]

We have another Philip in our midst. Schott this and Schott that... Next you're going to try to convince us that IOR scopes are the best because they use Schott glass.

 

[Rob01]

Well considering I sold millions and millions of dollars worth of Vortex optics I might have a clue. No optical glass maker in the US, best glass in the world is all Schott Glass which is why every expensive scope in the world gladly advertises it. The AMG is a very very excellent scope regardless. Lots of companies charge 2K for a scope made in Japan eve let alone assembled in the US. FYI I would not want a scope with glass made in the US anyway. Nikon, LOW, Schott in Japan and others have been doing Optical glass for a very very long time. All your good cameras are German or Japanese as well. Corning made the sheet of glass for the telescope, but Perkin-Elmer Corporation is who ground it, polished it and screwed it up.

Had to quote that edit too as those US assembled AMGs is classic.

And if you own an AMG you do have a scope with US glass.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

What Rob01 already pointed out. Vortex AMG uses USA made lenses.

Eh, I was hoping for a Hubble argument.....

 

[JMGlasgow]

 

[JMGlasgow]

 

[PaulHAW]

We have another Philip in our midst. Schott this and Schott that... Next you're going to try to convince us that IOR scopes are the best because they use Schott glass.

Schott makes many many lines of glass, heck they make glass for everything. Medical devices, satellites, microscopes, etc. All Swarovski, S&B, Khales, Leica and Zeiss etc is Schott. Don't need to convince anyone, show up to SHOT, meet the manufacturers and talk to them. Review the specs on light dispersion, light transmission, chromatic aberration, etc. It's simply numbers that don't lie. For instance, a very very good scope lets in 92% of light, share with everyone what the AMG lets in? You won't find it anywhere in writing. I am not knocking that scope, I have one and freaking love it, more to a rifle scope than just the lens. Both Razors are built like a tank and I think worth every dime. Just educating you from a guy who has sold tens of millions of dollars worth of them all, have them all on rifles, go to SHOT every year and talk to the manufacturers, etc and use them every weekend some small facts that honestly are not likely important enough to really make a difference. You seem emotional on this for some reason. No scope maker on the planet disagrees that Schott glass is where to start if you can afford it for the pricepoint of the scope they hope to make. It's very very expensive. The Zeiss Victory Binos have 12 of the most expensive pieces of glass in the world in them, not going to sell for 500 bucks sorry, the lens cost more than that. My favorite scope on the planet right now and I can buy anything is likely the Leica PRS for whats it's worth.

 

[PaulHAW]

Eh, I was hoping for a Hubble argument.....

Sorry

 

[JMGlasgow]

No emotion, I've just read all the same Schott fanboi shit over and over and over on this site.

I own a Razor, I know they are good.

By the way, nice flex on how much product you've moved, I still don't care.

 

[Ozarkcop]

Lacroix optic in batesville ar has a large contract with vortex to make lenses for the amg line. About as American as it gets

 

[PaulHAW]

Unless it's changed in the last 1-2 years https://www.optics-trade.eu/blog/where-are-vortex-binoculars-made/

 

[koshkin]

How is this thread back again?

There are quite a few optical glass manufacturers out there, Schott is far from being the only one. Schott might be the largest though, which is likely one of the reasons you see their glass used so much.

The whole glass origin argument is so blindingly stupid that I do not want to rehash the whole thing, especially with Phillip back.

If you really want to think that in order to be good a scope has to have Schott glass, keep in mind that Schott has a factory in the US and if you really want to you can buy raw glass from there. I used to do exactly that a few jobs ago.

Generally, if you are willing to spend the money, you can get equally excellent melts from Schott, Corning, Ohara and a few others.

ILya

 

[koshkin]

Unless it's changed in the last 1-2 years https://www.optics-trade.eu/blog/where-are-vortex-binoculars-made/

That is slightly outdated. Razor UHD binoculars are made in Japan, while the slightly less expensive Razor HD binoculars are made in China (used to be Japan). Razor HD spotters are made in China and re-aligned in the US.

Razor riflescopes are made in Japan with some additional work done in the US where appropriate.

ILya

 

[PaulHAW]

No emotion, I've just read all the same Schott fanboi shit over and over and over on this site.

I own a Razor, I know they are good.

By the way, nice flex on how much product you've moved, I still don't care.

Nice to know you are emotional about your scope, that's awesome you love it. I don't disagree it's not a great scope. I won't why all the other top scope makers in the world disagree and exclusively use Schott glass? They must all be wrong and you must be right, maybe you should reach out to them and give them advice on what makes a good rifle scope? My understanding from Schott came from the Swaro booth, Leica booth, Zeiss guys, etc. Not sure why I would not listen to them? They can buy from anyone, heck buying from Schott is paying their competitor for Swaro, I am assuming they would rather buy it from anyone but them!

 

[JMGlasgow]

You just don't quit. I also currently own Steiner, Burris, Bushnell. And have owned Leupold, Redfield Denver, Springfield ART IV. No emotional attachment or response whatsoever.

 

[PaulHAW]

How is this thread back again?

There are quite a few optical glass manufacturers out there, Schott is far from being the only one. Schott might be the largest though, which is likely one of the reasons you see their glass used so much.

The whole glass origin argument is so blindingly stupid that I do not want to rehash the whole thing, especially with Phillip back.

If you really want to think that in order to be good a scope has to have Schott glass, keep in mind that Schott has a factory in the US and if you really want to you can buy raw glass from there. I used to do exactly that a few jobs ago.

Generally, if you are willing to spend the money, you can get equally excellent melts from Schott, Corning, Ohara and a few others.

ILya

Nope, per above I agree and said exactly that. There is a TON to a scope not just a piece of raw glass! I think LOW in japan who makes Nightforce, used to make some Vortex, Bushnell, etc obviously does a great job, whoever is making the lens for the top of the line Leupold does a great job and they sure seem to make a quality product. Maybe Vortex is having the lens made in the US now, if they are that's news to me. Most of the expensive scopes in the world can buy glass from anyone, and they almost exclusively buy from one place.

 

[PaulHAW]

That is slightly outdated. Razor UHD binoculars are made in Japan, while the slightly less expensive Razor HD binoculars are made in China (used to be Japan). Razor HD spotters are made in China and re-aligned in the US.

Razor riflescopes are made in Japan with some additional work done in the US where appropriate.

ILya

Thanks Yes UHD all say Japan on the box, about 4 years ago the old Razor binos moved from Japan to China. Although the only reason being according to the rep was the factory in Japan flat could not keep up they said.

 

[koshkin]

Nope, per above I agree and said exactly that. There is a TON to a scope not just a piece of raw glass! I think LOW in japan who makes Nightforce, used to make some Vortex, Bushnell, etc obviously does a great job, whoever is making the lens for the top of the line Leupold does a great job and they sure seem to make a quality product. Maybe Vortex is having the lens made in the US now, if they are that's news to me. Most of the expensive scopes in the world can buy glass from anyone, and they almost exclusively buy from one place.

LOW makes Razor HD scope for Vortex.

Your "everyone buys from one place" argument is simply not true. You have no clue where they buy glass and you really should not care. The product should speak for itself and where they buy internal components should be the least of your concern. Statistically, Schott being the largest European maker, it would make sense that they would have a large market share and they definitely have the largest market share with European manufacturers.

ILya

 

[SRPowah]

What is with all of the new no-name randoms coming in acting like industry big shots? If someone moved "millions and millions of dollars" of vortex glass without knowing the big PR deal behind the AMG being originally 100% "Made in the USA", that just screams they are a fraud or they are a small little minion at a big box store talking out of their ass.