Picked up my Larue 18" .308 PredatOBR today

[MSTN]

This is from my FedEx pilot colleague who also got one of the three rifles ordered on 3/20/12. Too funny!!!

"Hi Wes, well I have my gun and saying I love it is a big understatement. Even my wife loved it. I was some what shocked when I came in and asked for my gun and the guy said he had no gun but a tool box. When we opened it up we were shocked. I had two people ask to buy it from me at a profit. Can't wait to get it to the range this week. You will get a fedex pack with your check by Monday. Thanks.""

 

[MSTN]

Is there a noticeable weight difference between the tOBR and your OBR? Any comparison between shooting the two?

My previous estimate was off. I reconfigured the gun to (almost) stock and got 9 LB 9 OZ.

 

[MSTN]

curious, what are your thoughts on their barrel nut design?

Well made and simple in the extreme.

Here are some photos that should help. It took me 24 seconds to remove the forend, and I twisted the wing nuts that secure the locking levers the wrong way the first try on both sides.

Here's a shot of the barrel nut. Bling!

Here's the barrel nut tool:

I'm REALLY thinking a nice 24" 6.5-something now.

 

[jaycoux]

I got my field grade 14.5 pinned and welded predator yesterday. Sold it to my dad. We took it out today and ran some fgmm 175 grain through it. 5 shot group right at an inch due to a flier, pretty good overall. Shot at 500, 750 and 1000. Hit everything very well except the wind changed when we shot 1000 and missed tbe first shot because of that. We missed the first shot at 750 because i was guessing on the velocity. Very pleased overall with this "bad" barrel.

J

 

[dvdt]

Got my 18" in today. Looking forward to shooting it. I'm tied to the house b/c of work this weekend but I'll be shooting next week for sure.

MSTN - what's it take to switch over to a PRS ?

Looks like I'll be ordering a LT120...

 

[BillyGoatMachine]

Got my 18" in today. Looking forward to shooting it. I'm tied to the house b/c of work this weekend but I'll be shooting next week for sure.

MSTN - what's it take to switch over to a PRS ?

Looks like I'll be ordering a LT120...

I got my field grade 14.5 pinned and welded predator yesterday. Sold it to my dad. We took it out today and ran some fgmm 175 grain through it. 5 shot group right at an inch due to a flier, pretty good overall. Shot at 500, 750 and 1000. Hit everything very well except the wind changed when we shot 1000 and missed tbe first shot because of that. We missed the first shot at 750 because i was guessing on the velocity. Very pleased overall with this "bad" barrel.

J

If you don't mind me asking what were your wait times?

 

[jaycoux]

If you don't mind me asking what were your wait times?

I ordered may 2012.

 

[GUNNER10]

can you pull and reinstall the barrel in the field or do you need a vice?

 

[Jcgodfrey]

I ordered a 16'' PredatAR in .223 last January and I haven't heard squat. I doubt I'll even get notified about the field grade barrel option.

 

[jaycoux]

can you pull and reinstall the barrel in the field or do you need a vice?

No vise needed.

 

[bluto77]

Wow...I didn't realize this rifle was "modular". I might have to order one for myself now. Maybe I'll get lucky and they'll figure out their barrel issue in the next month or so and have already assembled most of the rifles and just waiting on barrels, and once the barrels start rolling out the wait time decreases drastically.....ok...maybe not. But that's pretty cool if you can swap out barrels/cartridges. I just got rid of an LMT that I never even shot because I knew it wasn't likely to perform like my OBR (that and I have amassed too many rifles...if that's such a thing). The wheels of justification are turning in my head. I have too many rifles now...buuut...I won't have this one for another year...so it's ok right?

 

[MSTN]

Interesting P'tOBR extractor spring. Or, should I say "springs"!?!

There is a smaller (very small - the kind of small that can hide from you) reverse-wound spring inside the usual extractor spring, not the typically encountered rubber insert.

While both the Larue barrel in this P'tOBR and the Lothar-Walther barrel in my older OBR are four groove, 1x11.25", right hand twist. Also, both appear to be what I would refer to as a "modified polygonal", but there is a distinct difference in the profile of the lands.

The throats look amazingly similar, however. Very clean. And both barrels tidy up after shooting suppressed amazingly quickly. I use an oversized bore brush and KG Industries cleaning products with microfiber patches and VFG felt pellets (for the KG-2) from Brownell's.

 

[liv4spd]

Interesting P'tOBR extractor spring. Or, should I say "springs"!?!

There is a smaller (very small - the kind of small that can hide from you) reverse-wound spring inside the usual extractor spring, not the typically encountered rubber insert.

While both the Larue barrel in this P'tOBR and the Lothar-Walther barrel in my older OBR are four groove, 1x11.25", right hand twist. Also, both appear to be what I would refer to as a "modified polygonal", but there is a distinct difference in the profile of the lands.

The throats look amazingly similar, however. Very clean. And both barrels tidy up after shooting suppressed amazingly quickly. I use an oversized bore brush and KG Industries cleaning products with microfiber patches and VFG felt pellets (for the KG-2) from Brownell's.

Thanks for the updates - keep em coming! Most informative and impartial feedback I've seen since they released the "Field Grade" SCOBR's.

 

[John D.]

Wes,

First of all, good to see around. I had no idea about the health issues. I wish you well. My MSTN uppers are still the gold standard.

Excellent look at the P'tOBR. When the match barrels are available, I'd be curious to see the accuracy compared to my early OBR. I can't make that comparison myself because CT's new laws prevent me from ever getting a LT rifle again. Take care!

 

[MSTN]

Wes,

First of all, good to see around. I had no idea about the health issues. I wish you well. My MSTN uppers are still the gold standard.

Excellent look at the P'tOBR. When the match barrels are available, I'd be curious to see the accuracy compared to my early OBR. I can't make that comparison myself because CT's new laws prevent me from ever getting a LT rifle again. Take care!

Don't worry about the health stuff. Just because I am a so-called cardiac cripple doesn't mean I plan to succumb to it anytime soon! Forewarned is forearmed, right? And modern meds actually work, sometimes. I can still PT, just gotta substitute the bike for running. Up to 12 chins after rotator cuff surgery. Totally enjoying being retired, too.

I can't believe my field grade barrel can be representative of how all of them will shoot. I'm getting in another 18" any day now for a buddy just like this. He asked me to shoot it some, so I will be able to get another data point. Then, I have a 16" P'tOBR inbound at some point (Oct 2012 order date).

There will be a shoot-off between my two P'tOBRs. The loser will become a 6.5CM.

 

[MSTN]

Note the different profile to the new P'tOBR upper receiver in first photo compared to the older OBR in the second. Not sure when that changed.

 

[scatsob]

Interesting. Looks like the old upper matched the lower better than the new one. Wonder if they will change the lower or the upper to match up. I know it's just cosmetic, but I'm a sucker for detail in a weapon.

 

[MSTN]

Interesting. Looks like the old upper matched the lower better than the new one. Wonder if they will change the lower or the upper to match up. I know it's just cosmetic, but I'm a sucker for detail in a weapon.

Maybe these are not the most demonstrative photos. The upper-to-lower fit is the same with the P'tOBR and the OBR; plus, the uppers fit either lower interchangeably with the same snug fit.

My guess is material was added in some key areas to stiffen the P'tOBR upper, perhaps since the P'tOBR lacks the reinforcing 30 MOA rail of the OBR. Or, maybe the P'tOBR upper simply takes less machine time. From my own aesthetic perspective, the P'tOBR upper is more attractive and matches the surface finish of the lower perfectly.

 

[poison123]

Whats interesting is the Tobr upper looks more like a KAC upper now.

 

[MSTN]

Whats interesting is the Tobr upper looks more like a KAC upper now.

Yes - As does the LMT MWS. And the KAC, LMT, and Larue uppers and lowers are all completely interchangeable. If I were KAC, I might be looking over my shoulder.

 

[dvdt]

anyone know what the pin like horizontal hole is to the left of the bolt catch ?

 

[GUNNER10]

Yes - As does the LMT MWS. And the KAC, LMT, and Larue uppers and lowers are all completely interchangeable. If I were KAC, I might be looking over my shoulder.

thats some funny stuff right there Wes,lol


Really...

So While Kac, has developed, Enhanced BCG's, integrated QD suppressors with recoil reducing muzzle devices, Ball Milling to reduce weight while maintaining accuracy, a new generation of two stage triggers, as well as a reliable rifle length gas system in a 16 inch package , submitted weapons for the latest round of DoD testing, will be able to take that data and apply it to future models, they should watch over their shoulder for a company that can barely handle the civilian market, and openly admitted they have no clue how to make a barrel.

Got it.

 

[MSTN]

thats some funny stuff right there Wes,lol


Really...

So While Kac, has developed, Enhanced BCG's, integrated QD suppressors with recoil reducing muzzle devices, Ball Milling to reduce weight while maintaining accuracy, a new generation of two stage triggers, as well as a reliable rifle length gas system in a 16 inch package , submitted weapons for the latest round of DoD testing, will be able to take that data and apply it to future models, they should watch over their shoulder for a company that can barely handle the civilian market, and openly admitted they have no clue how to make a barrel.

Got it.

Your assessment - not mine.


I like my Larue with the beater barrel, thank you.

 

[MSTN]

LaRue Grip Adapter Panels | LaRue Tactical

Wes they do make fde gap covers. They are on the site.

Check!

Shot 40X rounds on steel in a full value 15 MPH gusting to 30 MPH wind today. Humbling experience.

Cleaned and lubed the weapon before this outing. Still running well. 150 rounds total. All of the shooting so far has been suppressed.

 

[jaycoux]

Check!

Shot 40X rounds on steel in a full value 15 MPH gusting to 30 MPH wind today. Humbling experience.

Cleaned and lubed the weapon before this outing. Still running well. 150 rounds total. All of the shooting so far has been suppressed.

Good to hear it is running good. I like tbe panels, looks even better. Did you heat those screws up or did tbey break free with a little elbow grease?

Thanks again.
J

 

[liv4spd]

MSTN - any indication of "chamber pressure" issues in these new SCOBR's, as mentioned in this thread: LaRue .308's and popped primer issue - M4Carbine.net Forums ?

 

[jaycoux]

MSTN - any indication of "chamber pressure" issues in these new SCOBR's, as mentioned in this thread: LaRue .308's and popped primer issue - M4Carbine.net Forums ?

WOW!! That is an interesting read!

 

[MSTN]

No "chamber pressure issues" here. Running Ok. Just really sucks in high crosswinds.

I read the thread, but I have to admit I'm having a problem following the logic of:

1. It's the gun, not the ammo?

2. But, M118LR works OK in the same gun?

Is it not long term common knowledge that FGMM brass is too soft for this type application? I recall issues with it 20 years ago in my first SR-25. Even Zediker's reloading book (first published in 1991) references it.

 

[MSTN]

Good to hear it is running good. I like tbe panels, looks even better. Did you heat those screws up or did tbey break free with a little elbow grease?

Thanks again.
J

No problem getting the screws free.

 

[Naish]

Nice gun glad to see that these rifles are finally shipping out.

 

[liv4spd]

No "chamber pressure issues" here. Running Ok. Just really sucks in high crosswinds.

I read the thread, but I have to admit I'm having a problem following the logic of:

1. It's the gun, not the ammo?

2. But, M118LR works OK in the same gun?

Is it not long term common knowledge that FGMM brass is too soft for this type application? I recall issues with it 20 years ago in my first SR-25. Even Zediker's reloading book (published in 2002) references it.

I'm not trying to be confrontational (I have a SCOBR in the mail as we speak) - but doesn't Larue use FGGM 168gr to test these rifles? Hell, it's what I used in the OBR 90% of the time. I would think if the FGMM was not appropriate for "this type of application", Larue wouldn't use it to benchmark their rifles before they left the factory...

Regardless, glad you're not seeing any issues! Look forward to testing things out on mine.

 

[MSTN]

FGMM has a good rep for accuracy. My own OBR came with a test target shot shot with FGMM.

A handful of rounds fired in an accuracy test clearly won't hurt. A long term, steady diet of FGMM can lead to issues, given the soft brass they use.

 

[Blaster7Romeo]

FGMM has a good rep for accuracy. My own OBR came with a test target shot shot with FGMM.

A handful of rounds fired in an accuracy test clearly won't hurt. A long term, steady diet of FGMM can lead to issues, given the soft brass they use.

.

can you please explain how soft brass can lead to " issues" ?

 

[MSTN]

In very general terms, during the firing cycle in a semi-auto, the brass expands upon the round firing and then contracts to a degree a nanosecond after the pressure abates, just prior to extraction. The extractor does not care if the brass has sufficiently relaxed to allow extraction; the extractor is going to attempt to do its job when its time comes, regardless. There's an optimum hardness for brass to perform reliably in a semi-auto, one that doesn't exist to the same degree in a bolt gun.

In my own experience, the FGMM brass on my first extended outing with a new SR-25 severely fouled the bolt head and the extractor groove. I've never seen anything quite like that happen before or since. Extremely tiny pieces of brass could be found throughout the upper receiver and even inside the magazine.

Was it just this particular rifle or just this lot of ammo? I can't say. One data point is not, I realize, the basis for a scientific conclusion. The problem went away when I switched to Black Hills ammo. I now steer clear of FGMM for my .308 gas gun use. I would not hesitate to use it in a bolt gun, however. Its reputation for accuracy is well deserved.

 

[VJJPunisher]

maybe i missed it but did this thing come with a dillo dust enima with applicator?

 

[jaycoux]

maybe i missed it but did this thing come with a dillo dust enima with applicator?

He has been objective and unbiased in his review of tbe predatobr. I dont see where he would deserve a comment like that.

 

[BillyGoatMachine]

He has been objective and unbiased in his review of tbe predatobr. I dont see where he would deserve a comment like that.

Pretty sure all of VJJ comments are crude and comical, regardless of post content

 

[MSTN]

He has been objective and unbiased in his review of tbe predatobr. I dont see where he would deserve a comment like that.

Ha - Kids these days!

I'm really not completely unbiased. For one, I've always been eaten up with the idea of a .308 semi-auto that will run reliably, shoot like a good bolt gun, not be a complete slug to lug around, and built with exquisite attention to detail. I've been through many, many .308 semi-autos rifles in the past 35+ years. They're all long gone (except this P'tOBR and my earlier P'tAR) and I don't miss them any more than I miss my three ex-wives.

Well, there WAS one near-new G-Series FAL ..... and a new NM M1 Garand prize gun ....

 

[MSTN]

.

can you please explain how soft brass can lead to " issues" ?

Here is a quote from a former employee of a major manufacturer of precision gas guns:

Between Federal, Remington and Winchester (168gr. BTHP), the Federal was the most accurate, but the most unreliable. The reason, the brass was too soft. Yes, soft brass expands in the chamber faster, more consistently, which aids in accuracy, but with soft brass comes brass shavings (fouling up the extractor and ejector) and loose primer pockets.

 

[800mZero]

Woot--glad I was able to link em for ya Wes! Looks great! How you liking the STR for long range stuff? I found that I actually get a less consistant cheekweld on the ACS I was trying and switched to a CTR--I get get the stock into the same point on the cheekbone with the ctr.

 

[BCP]

Here is a quote from a former employee of a major manufacturer of precision gas guns:

Between Federal, Remington and Winchester (168gr. BTHP), the Federal was the most accurate, but the most unreliable. The reason, the brass was too soft. Yes, soft brass expands in the chamber faster, more consistently, which aids in accuracy, but with soft brass comes brass shavings (fouling up the extractor and ejector) and loose primer pockets.

I had that problem with FC brass as well back around 2008 I think. There would be these little scrapes and pieces of the case rims coming off after a couple loadings and the pockets got soft fast. I recently got a bunch more and it seems to be a lot better but I am definitely keeping an eye on them.

 

[MSTN]

Woot--glad I was able to link em for ya Wes! Looks great! How you liking the STR for long range stuff? I found that I actually get a less consistant cheekweld on the ACS I was trying and switched to a CTR--I get get the stock into the same point on the cheekbone with the ctr.

The ACS works quite well for me except prone. Prone, I'd rather have the adjustable cheekpiece height of the PRS. I'd just prefer to keep the gun lighter, so I'm avoiding the PRS for now. But, maybe the PRS on a 24" 6.5CM???

 

[VJJPunisher]

He has been objective and unbiased in his review of tbe predatobr. I dont see where he would deserve a comment like that.

relax nancy I wasnt saying anything derogatory towards the OP, just mocking lapoop's use of dillo dust

 

[jaycoux]

relax nancy I wasnt saying anything derogatory towards the OP, just mocking lapoop's use of dillo dust

No problem, just seemed afwul catty at the time thats all.

 

[Carnivore]

I'm getting in another 18" any day now for a buddy just like this. He asked me to shoot it some, so I will be able to get another data point. There will be a shoot-off between my two P'tOBRs. The loser will become a 6.5CM.

Be gentile with my new baby, I can't wait to see the shoot off. :>)

 

[MSTN]

Got my 18" in today. Looking forward to shooting it. I'm tied to the house b/c of work this weekend but I'll be shooting next week for sure.

MSTN - what's it take to switch over to a PRS ?

Looks like I'll be ordering a LT120...

Same AR' rifle stock tube, but a different, shorter, lighter rifle buffer for the .308 (4.3 vs 5.5 ounces), and different recoil spring.

 

[BCP]

So how crazy are people going over these rifles on barfcom? I can get a 14.5 or 18 for 3300$ from a good buddy dealer just wondering if that's a steal price.

 

[MSTN]

anyone know what the pin like horizontal hole is to the left of the bolt catch ?

There is a pin that secures the bolt stop in place. The pin is driven in, as you look at the photo, from right to left.

The slot to which you refer, left of the bolt stop, is simply space provided for the same pin to be driven out, right to left, in order to be able to remove the bolt stop.

 

[Thebelly]

So how crazy are people going over these rifles on barfcom? I can get a 14.5 or 18 for 3300$ from a good buddy dealer just wondering if that's a steal price.

They are worth whatever folks are willing to pay. The wait for a LaRue rifle is pretty long right now. LaRue also doesn't publish anticipated delivery dates.

 

[MSTN]

So how crazy are people going over these rifles on barfcom? I can get a 14.5 or 18 for 3300$ from a good buddy dealer just wondering if that's a steal price.

Retail is $3370. I had to wait for 19 months for my first one. Larue is catching up to folks who ordered around 14 months ago by now.

The first .308 P'tOBR on Gunbroker went for $4425. The second, $4228. There's one there now for sale. It's up to $3575, with almost four days left to go.

I'd say $3300 - for a P'tOBR right here and now, over the counter - sounds pretty attractive.