Pin and Weld Question

[IWillNotComply]

So I recently purchased a new 14.5 ELW BHF Upper from BCM... I have a sandman in jail, so naturally I wanted to have a key mount pinned and welded for the future suppresor. It's my first time getting a P&W, but I'm familiar with the process that is done.

Yesterday, I picked up the upper from the GS I was referred to by a decent amount of sources.

Here's my question... Outside of visual appearance (which doesn't matter to me, it's just a tool), is this P&W job functionally acceptable, as in did it F-up my barrel in a way that will hurt it's reliability or accuracy? I'm honestly not sure what the F happened, I know it's a simple job, I'm not sure why it looks like he welded in other spots, I'm like to not get roasted for this and rather have experts tell me if they think the rifle is ok. I just want to not worry about it and know that the function is fine, but I'm not an expert, clearly.

 

[IWillNotComply]

Another view...

 

[Docsherm]

View attachment 7586525

Another view...

WTF did they do to it? I have seen no less then 50 different P&W nobs and I have never seen anything like that.

 

[BullGear]

If the threads are true, the weld shouldn't matter other than for appearance. Look down the barrel from the chamber end. If the light looks to be round then you're probable okay, if it's egg shaped, then you have a problem. This is a very elementary way of checking it, but should work. Not the best way to check it, but it gets you started.

 

[Docsherm]

What kind of barrel is it?

 

[IWillNotComply]

WTF did they do to it? I have seen no less then 50 different P&W nobs and I have never seen anything like that.

I have no idea... I tried to do everything right .. get referrals, get a professional to do it, etc... I still don't understand what happened, but I don't want to ask unless there's something that is functionally going to hurt the performance or reliability. I've learned my lesson but it's not something that matters to me, bc it's not noticeable on the full rifle.

 

[IWillNotComply]

What kind of barrel is it?

BCM ELW Cold Hammer Forged version.

 

[Docsherm]

BCM ELW Cold Hammer Forged version.

Have you shot it yet? That will be the true test. I aas concerned if it was stanless.

 

[IWillNotComply]

Have you shot it yet? That will be the true test. I aas concerned if it was stanless.

I haven't, just got it back yesterday.. my knowledge is limited, but I don't see anything inside the barrel... So unless there is something about how it's F'd up that could impact anything, I'm going to get over the appearance which doesn't matter since I plan on keeping it forever and just want to make sure he didn't mess up function or ability to attach sandman S (in jail atm)

 

[101stinfantry]

I don't think it should affect the function, but I wouldn't take anything else back to that dude.

 

[the monk]

You need to see if the suppressor will engage. It does appear that he welded in other spots. So odd as its such a simple process.

 

[IWillNotComply]

I don't think it should affect the function, but I wouldn't take anything else back to that dude.

Yeah I agree and won't. But thank you... I needed that or else I was going to lose it as I went through a journey to get this build done during these times and would be devastating if I grenaded the upper.

 

[IWillNotComply]

You need to see if the suppressor will engage. It does appear that he welded in other spots. So odd as its such a simple process.

Yeah I'm so freaking confused, when I dropped it off, we talked about it, and how he's done many so we'll that it was hard to tell... It's so simple to just weld the damn pin hole for a half a second. I don't want to bring it up with him, no point as he's a nice guy and I fucked up by not getting someone else to do it, despite many referrals. Ugh.

I'll take it to the suppresor shop next week and see if they will let me test fit it.

 

[TurboTrout]

Well it ain’t pretty, does it function?
I’d say if it functions, maybe someone with a similar suppressor could help you see, I’d at least want a no charge for that, if it doesn’t I’d say he bought a new barrel and fitting.

Can’t you just use permanent red loctite for these applications?

Also has anyone had a government official actually take their firearms from them and measure it?

 

[Docsherm]

I'll take it to the suppresor shop next week and see if they will let me test fit it.

Hopefully it will lock in. Let us know how it goes.

 

[IWillNotComply]

Can’t you just use permanent red loctite for these applications?

Also has anyone had a government official actually tale their firearms from them and measure it?

I am not sure, but I guess I was just being a good sheep and doing what I've heard needs to be done.... it wasn't worth losing all of my 2A rights risking anything not being compliant in the crazy off chance it was inspected.

The good news is, there's not a damn doubt in the world it's welded on!

 

[IWillNotComply]

Hopefully it will lock in. Let us know how it goes.

Thank you for your input and help. I will post back how that goes next week.

 

[TurboTrout]

I am not sure, but I guess I was just being a good sheep and doing what I've heard needs to be done.... it wasn't worth losing all of my 2A rights risking anything not being compliant in the crazy off chance it was inspected.

The good news is, there's not a damn doubt in the world it's welded on!

your user name is conflicting lol

But I hear ya

 

[IWillNotComply]

your user name is conflicting lol

But I hear ya

Hahaha yeah I guess that is somewhat.... Guess referring to any more infringement beyond current levels!

 

[the monk]

Well it ain’t pretty, does it function?
I’d say if it functions, maybe someone with a similar suppressor could help you see, I’d at least want a no charge for that, if it doesn’t I’d say he bought a new barrel and fitting.

Can’t you just use permanent red loctite for these applications?

Also has anyone had a government official actually take their firearms from them and measure it?

Rocksett would be the proper locking agent. To answer your question I dont think so. The problem is if you are ever involved in a shooting with that gun, they may check it. I know for a fact they do those.

You could always blame it on a smith. I heard of a guy that just did rocksett and then did a tap weld on the muzzle device to make it look like a P&W.

 

[Fret]

This is what the pin and weld looks like on one of my barrels:

 

[IWillNotComply]

This is what the pin and weld looks like one of my barrels:

Yep, that was my expectation, relatively. And it's super easy... I'm still confused

 

[TurboTrout]

Rocksett would be the proper locking agent. To answer your question I dont think so. The problem is if you are ever involved in a shooting with that gun, they may check it. I know for a fact they do those.

You could always blame it on a smith. I heard of a guy that just did rocksett and then did a tap weld on the muzzle device to make it look like a P&W.

But if they are going to go after you for a shooting, I’d wager the weapons charge will be tossed out in the plea deal.

Also is there anything saying red loctite isn’t good to go? It claims it’s permanent, and I could also grind and drill a pin and weld, or just chop saw the thing, I wager if they are going to go after you to the point of minutiae on how muzzle device was attached, you’re getting bent over one way or another

 

[IWillNotComply]

But if they are going to go after you for a shooting, I’d wager the weapons charge will he tossed out in the plea deal.

Also is there anything saying red loctite isn’t good to go? It claims it’s permanent, and I could also grind and drill a pin and weld, or just chop saw the thing, I wager if they are going to go after you to the point of minutiae on how muzzle device was attached, you’re getting bent over one way or another

In a home defense situation, or self defense.... They would love to use that against you. He didn't mean just any shooting.

 

[TurboTrout]

In a home defense situation, or self defense.... They would love to use that against you. He didn't mean just any shooting.

If the DA is going that route, if the “justice system” is going as far as to see if any bit of your gun does not please the state, vs just going off if it was a good shoot or not, it’s a witch hunt, probably a election year, pepper your angus

 

[IWillNotComply]

If the DA is going that route, it’s a witch hunt ether way, pepper your angus

That doesn't matter. It could be entirely outside of the case. The alphabet people could pursue entirely separately. Not worth arguing about this though.

 

[TurboTrout]

That doesn't matter. It could be entirely outside of the case. The alphabet people could pursue entirely separately. Not worth arguing about this though.

Also just found this

“Permanent methods ofattachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over.”

Ether way, hope your suppressor can attach, I’d not use that shop again

 

[IWillNotComply]

Also just found this

“Permanent methods ofattachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over.”

Ether way, hope your suppressor can attach, I’d not use that shop again

Interesting. Over my head! But Thank you and I hope it does! If it attaches and ratchets down, I'm good right?

 

[TurboTrout]

Interesting. Over my head! But Thank you and I hope it does! If it attaches and ratchets down, I'm good right?

Outside of cosmetics, yup

 

[loveha]

Man I would be pissed. Whole job could be done in 5 minutes. I would tell the customer to just hang around and I'll be right back. Time, drill, pin, and TIG. Never pinned a muzzle device, but I tig weld stainless sheet metal, so I'm sure I could do it lol. I would be embarrassed to let that out of my hands. Looks like dog shit.
Looks like the "smith" went the silver solder route?

 

[BullGear]

My bet is the Smith was busy and he gave it soeone else in his shop. As many have said, it's not a difficult job, but I guess not everyone can do it.

I'd take it back to the Smith and see what he says. That is unless the Smith looked over the job while the OP was standing in front of him.

 

[IWillNotComply]

Man I would be pissed. Whole job could be done in 5 minutes. I would tell the customer to just hang around and I'll be right back. Time, drill, pin, and TIG. Never pinned a muzzle device, but I tig weld stainless sheet metal, so I'm sure I could do it lol. I would be embarrassed to let that out of my hands. Looks like dog shit.
Looks like the "smith" went the silver solder route?

I know I know! I'm trying to forget about the cosmetic part... Just want to make sure it will shoot the same.

 

[NukeMMC]

First picture looks like he tried to do a fillet between the flashider and the threads.
If that muzzle device had never been fired, it looks like he just cooked whatever finish is on the muzzle device when he welded. If it had been used before, it looks like the carbon and any remnant oil cooked out. Regardless, it looks like a bit of effort with a wire brush will clean it up. Of course, then the finish is gone, so might as well blast with 120g and spray on the KG Gunkote and cook the barrel for an hour.

 

[IWillNotComply]

First picture looks like he tried to do a fillet between the flashider and the threads.
If that muzzle device had never been fired, it looks like he just cooked whatever finish is on the muzzle device when he welded. If it had been used before, it looks like the carbon and any remnant oil cooked out. Regardless, it looks like a bit of effort with a wire brush will clean it up. Of course, then the finish is gone, so might as well blast with 120g and spray on the KG Gunkote and cook the barrel for an hour.

Never fired any of it.

 

[sam4886]

That's fucking terrible. I'd be demanding a fix, probably a new barrel and brake. The smith, or whoever he employs, fucked it up and it should be his responsibility to fix it. If you don't want the conflict, then that's your call, but I know what I'd be doing.

 

[IWillNotComply]

That's fucking terrible. I'd be demanding a fix, probably a new barrel and brake. The smith, or whoever he employs, fucked it up and it should be his responsibility to fix it. If you don't want the conflict, then that's your call, but I know what I'd be doing.

I know.... Unfortunately, it's not the type of thing I can pursue... If it didn't change the function, I am fine to move on.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

My local smiths first ever p&w:

His second:

Your guy sucks. At the very least he should've refused payment.

 

[IWillNotComply]

My local smiths first ever p&w:View attachment 7586657
His second:View attachment 7586658
Your guy sucks. At the very least he should've refused payment.

Ugh I know I would get this reaction. I already feel like dog shit. I tried to do everything right, and fucked up. I just hope it doesn't impact suppresor lock or anything else.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Ugh I know I would get this reaction.

I'm not trying to be a dick towards you, I've had my fair share of poorly done machinist or smith work. I started out nice like you, letting it slide and hoping for the best. But eventually you just gotta get mean and tell them when something is unacceptable, otherwise it'll keep you up at night.

 

[IWillNotComply]

I'm not trying to be a dick towards you, I've had my fair share of poorly done machinist or smith work. I started out nice like you, letting it slide and hoping for the best. But eventually you just gotta get mean and tell them when something is unacceptable, otherwise it'll keep you up at night.

Trust me, I will, but this is a local GS (I was told) that has a shop behind his house. I got multiple references, and trust me, if this was a formal shop I would be going all in for a new upper... But I learned my lesson the hard way, don't do anything outside of a company/llc, etc from now on...

 

[DocRDS]

I'm not trying to be a dick towards you, I've had my fair share of poorly done machinist or smith work. I started out nice like you, letting it slide and hoping for the best. But eventually you just gotta get mean and tell them when something is unacceptable, otherwise it'll keep you up at night.

Yeah I am always the nice guy and getting shit on in the process. Its a skill some of us need to learn. And its not really being a dick. Its standing up for yourself. That job wasn't done right. You are not being a dick, you are saying--"Hoss THAT AINT RIGHT"

 

[IWillNotComply]

Yeah I am always the nice guy and getting shit on in the process. Its a skill some of us need to learn. And its not really being a dick. Its standing up for yourself. That job wasn't done right. You are not being a dick, you are saying--"Hoss THAT AINT RIGHT"

I am definitely going to text him tomorrow just to inform him I had multiple opinions tell me it was botched, send him some pictures, and at the very least ask what the fuck happened.

 

[TurboTrout]

I am definitely going to text him tomorrow just to inform him I had multiple opinions tell me it was botched, send him some pictures, and at the very least ask what the fuck happened.

Does he have a Facebook or yelp or something?
Post pictures of the work he’s apparently proud enough to charge for.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Is it really necessary to weld around the whole thing? A simple divot, a pin, and some silver solder over the top is technically compliant.

 

[IWillNotComply]

Is it really necessary to weld around the whole thing? A simple divot, a pin, and some silver solder over the top is technically compliant.

Exactly. This is what I was expecting, a simple weld over the pin hole. I was shocked when inspected. Like I don't know how this was miscommunicated.

 

[IWillNotComply]

Exactly. This is what I was expecting, a simple weld over the pin hole. I was shocked when inspected. Like I don't know how this was miscommunicated.

But... Again I don't care about cosmetics at this point. Just function. Sounds like from what others have said, if the Suppressor ratchets down, I'm functionally ok.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

Integrity wise, @BullGear said how to personally inspect, or get it checked by a reputable Smith.
No self respecting tradie, would let that cosmetic abortion leave their shop.
You paid good money, you deserve good results.
Shit like that, really boils my piss.
Hope you get a decent resolution, and he hasn't bungholed your kit.

 

[loveha]

But... Again I don't care about cosmetics at this point. Just function. Sounds like from what others have said, if the Suppressor ratchets down, I'm functionally ok.

I would also check alignment as well. Never know with that abomination, something may not be straight.
Sold out at PA, but it's just an example.

Home

DetailsThe Geissele Suppressor Alignment Rod (SAR) is a precision gauge used to verify the alignment of a suppressor to the bore of a firearm barrel.Suppressor alignment is determined by several factors:Centerline alignment (offset and angular) of the barrel threads to the bore.Perpendicularity...

www.primaryarms.com

 

[IWillNotComply]

I would also check alignment as well. Never know with that abomination, something may not be straight.
Sold out at PA, but it's just an example.

Home

DetailsThe Geissele Suppressor Alignment Rod (SAR) is a precision gauge used to verify the alignment of a suppressor to the bore of a firearm barrel.Suppressor alignment is determined by several factors:Centerline alignment (offset and angular) of the barrel threads to the bore.Perpendicularity...

www.primaryarms.com

Yeah good call, I was definitely thinking to definitely not shoot it Suppressed until I check the alignment with a gauge like that.

I just tried to check the inside.. looks ok to the naked eye in terms of other damage. I'm not going to sleep well tonight. This shit is so fucking typical for my luck. I tried to build my first do it all rifle to last... And right off the bat when I put the last part together, it's fucked. I just hope it shoots alright...

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

Probably is okay, but never risk it with high velocity or pressurised components.
Nice looking rig though.