Piston vs Gas for an AR???

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jacklulu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi guys,
Sorry for all this but another question
I am leaning towards the LMT .223
Now the question is gas or Piston
What do you think
Thanks
John </div></div>

I suggest you go with a DI rifle unless you have a spefic reason not to. I know they aren't "in style" anymore, but they have been winning matches and defending lives for many years.

I can use whatever I choose, but my work M4 and my match rifles are DI.

Hovever bear in mind that Direct Impingement and prison driven systems are both "gas operated".

 

[K_4c]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-m4-carbine-controversy-03289/

Just wanted to point this out... I served overseas in OIF 1&3.... These after action reviews were being conducted even in my unit (2/502nd 101st airborne).

I'm not saying the piston AR is superior to the DI... But as a grunt who "lugged a gun around" for two years in a target rich environment I too have an opinion... And so far my piston AR has exceeded my expectations.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jakhamr81</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WOW!! Now if someone wants to pay an extra $1,000 for a gun that is no more capable than any other gun in that family that is there business.

I just hate to see guys come on here being so naive to believe everything that a gun manufacturer's marketing division tells them.

AGAIN THERE ARE NO BENEFITS TO HAVING A GAS PISTON AR15!!

No one has come on here and cited any type of government or independent testing in which a gas piston AR15 out performed a DI gas AR15.

The only thing I have read here is someone regurgitating what they read in an article of SWAT magazine or saw on the last episode of Future Weapons.

Its not evolution, updating a poorly engineered design, or whatever else you tell yourself. Its just genius marketing to be competitive in a cut throat business. Notice how many of the top tier gun makers have not fallen for it; KAC, GAP, Larue, Novekse,...

</div></div>

 

[Jacklulu]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

Thanks
I do understand the mechanicals and the physics behind this weapon system
Lol Hahah
Thanks
I am a real New gear guy
And have spent a lot of $$$$$ on the next great thing
But in NY LMT does not even make a NY compatible yet

 

[KillShot]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K_4c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-m4-carbine-controversy-03289/

Just wanted to point this out... I served overseas in OIF 1&3.... These after action reviews were being conducted even in my unit (2/502nd 101st airborne).

I'm not saying the piston AR is superior to the DI... But as a grunt who "lugged a gun around" for two years in a target rich environment I too have an opinion... And so far my piston AR has exceeded my expectations.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jakhamr81</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WOW!! Now if someone wants to pay an extra $1,000 for a gun that is no more capable than any other gun in that family that is there business.

I just hate to see guys come on here being so naive to believe everything that a gun manufacturer's marketing division tells them.

AGAIN THERE ARE NO BENEFITS TO HAVING A GAS PISTON AR15!!

No one has come on here and cited any type of government or independent testing in which a gas piston AR15 out performed a DI gas AR15.

The only thing I have read here is someone regurgitating what they read in an article of SWAT magazine or saw on the last episode of Future Weapons.

Its not evolution, updating a poorly engineered design, or whatever else you tell yourself. Its just genius marketing to be competitive in a cut throat business. Notice how many of the top tier gun makers have not fallen for it; KAC, GAP, Larue, Novekse,...

</div></div></div></div>

I read the entire article and I am convinced, <span style="font-style: italic">THERE <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">IS</span></span> <span style="text-decoration: line-through">NO</span> BENEFIT TO HAVING A GAS PISTON AR15</span> and evidently, the higher ups in the military seem to think so as well.

 

[K_4c]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

I didn't post that link to stir up shit again...I used a m4 in combat and saw its downfalls. As I stated in my very first post ... I had a bad taste in my mouth from those experiences and picked up a piston AR and haven't looked back. I also have a Larue OBR and a Noveske and both shoot lights out. So I'm not totally bias.

 

[Jacklulu]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

K4c
Thanks
I want a piston
But will shoot this new DI
Clean it
And buy a piston upper someday for sure
Go Big or Go Home
Thanks guys

 

[BELLYCRAWL]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

Jackulu,

If you are new to the AR world, welcome its gets expensive. You will probably be happy you are not in the full auto world as it gets even more expensive. Again, welcome to the world of spending money.


BC

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K_4c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I didn't post that link to stir up shit again...I used a m4 in combat and saw its downfalls. As I stated in my very first post ... I had a bad taste in my mouth from those experiences and picked up a piston AR and haven't looked back. I also have a Larue OBR and a Noveske and both shoot lights out. So I'm not totally bias. </div></div>

What were it's downfalls?

FYI: I carried the same A2 for 2 years, it was a POS, but my last tour I got a pretty new A3, and that was the heat! Keep in mind, the Army was pretty dumb when it came to properly lubing weapons back then.

 

[K_4c]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

Properly lubing or drowning your a3?


Oil attracks dirt.... Dirt and oil mixed with burnt powder residue create malfunctions... I deployed as a certified 4b my second tour... You didn't always have the luxury of breaking your weapon system down and properly clean it. And adding more oil to an on going problem might work on the range but murphys law showed face a time or two in a rather untimely manner.

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K_4c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Properly lubing or drowning your a3?

Oil attracks dirt.... Dirt and oil mixed with burnt powder residue create malfunctions... I deployed as a certified 4b my second tour... You didn't always have the luxury of breaking your weapon system down and properly clean it. And adding more oil to an on going problem might work on the range but murphys law showed face a time or two in a rather untimely manner.

</div></div>

Seems like your thinking is still old school.

Trust me, I know sand, I live in the desert and I rarely clean my guns "Military Style" For the most part, I only wipe down the gunk and re-lube. Mobil-1 is that good! It's not only a lube, but it seems to keep the gun clean with no carbon build up.

The gun is going to attract dirt and sand with oil or with no oil. At least with the oil, it keeps everything slick and pushes the excess dirt out of the gun.

Do you think the gun can hold 10 gallons of sand? It cannot, there is only so much sand a gun can hold. If you keep it slick, you will find out that the excess sand gets pushed out easier.

Not just DI guns benefit from extra lube, piston guns can also benefit from using lube. Metal to metal contact is not a good thing, always nice to have lube between the metal.

I have gone 500+ rounds of Wolf Ammo with only an initial drench of lube in my DI guns. I remember the Army teaching us that only 30 rounds of small arms fire are used in the average firefight, and only 90 rounds are used in the "average heavy firegight"... so 500+ rounds with only one lube session is more than plenty.

The Military is even taking the stance that you should lube your gun! Here http://www.militarytimes.com/news/2007/07/army_carbine_lubrication_070716/

I guess you did not get the memo?

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

Also, check out this video of a DI AR being fired until the handguards catches fire. Took about 900 rounds in full auto. Believe it or not the barrel was still in good shape. I hightly doubt a piston M4 could handle this kind of abuse.

http://youtu.be/Kzfm4pYhIyY

 

[K_4c]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

To each his own....

I will try the mobile 1 trick with my OBR and Noveske... Couldn't hurt with clean up and cost for a quart is hands down cheaper... You sold me on that idea.

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K_4c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To each his own....

I will try the mobile 1 trick with my OBR and Noveske... Couldn't hurt with clean up and cost for a quart is hands down cheaper... You sold me on that idea. </div></div>


I lube all my guns with Mobil-1, there is no reason why you should not keep them slick.

I use to be sold on the "Piston Fad" myself. Like I said, my LWRC and FAL ran great until I tried to run them suppressed.

One thing great about a DI, is it could be over gassed and work fairly well, when a LWRC (or any other Piston gun) is over gassed, you get broken parts.

Even the FAL, a gun we consider to have AK like reliability get mashed return springs when running suppressed.

 

[K_4c]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

I just bought a TBAC 30-BA that I'll run on all my guns... I'm sure my a3 will preform better then your a2 has... But I'll keep an eye on that return spring and report back if or when I have issues.

I keep all my rifles maintained... I just don't feel soaking a gun with motor oil is a good fix.

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K_4c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just bought a TBAC 30-BA that I'll run on all my guns... I'm sure my a3 will preform better then your a2 has... But I'll keep an eye on that return spring and report back if or when I have issues.

I keep all my rifles maintained... I just don't feel soaking a gun with motor oil is a good fix. </div></div>

I don't see it that way, the way I see it is: Gears (sealed or not), have to be lubed.

 

[cox308]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, check out this video of a DI AR being fired until the handguards catches fire. Took about 900 rounds in full auto. Believe it or not the barrel was still in good shape. I hightly doubt a piston M4 could handle this kind of abuse.

http://youtu.be/Kzfm4pYhIyY </div></div>

Towards the end of the video the gun had to be cycled manually. What do you think happened? Seems like the gas tube may have failed. Forget the fire. This video shows the DI system FAIL.

Why do you do you think that a piston AR couldn't handle?? Is it because you think the piston might seize? The gas block will expand with the piston as they heat up together. The rest of the system is already proven and would see litte heat relitively.

I'd like to see the same done with a piston set up to see if it fails. I think a beefy gas block will take MUCH more heat to fail than a gas tube.

I'm not trying to fuel any flames or anything. I'd just like to hear your thoughts on this.

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cox380</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, check out this video of a DI AR being fired until the handguards catches fire. Took about 900 rounds in full auto. Believe it or not the barrel was still in good shape. I hightly doubt a piston M4 could handle this kind of abuse.

http://youtu.be/Kzfm4pYhIyY </div></div>

Towards the end of the video the gun had to be cycled manually. What do you think happened? Seems like the gas tube may have failed. Forget the fire. This video shows the DI system FAIL.

Why do you do you think that a piston AR couldn't handle?? Is it because you think the piston might seize? The gas block will expand with the piston as they heat up together. The rest of the system is already proven and would see litte heat relitively.

I'd like to see the same done with a piston set up to see if it fails. I think a beefy gas block will take MUCH more heat to fail than a gas tube.

I'm not trying to fuel any flames or anything. I'd just like to hear your thoughts on this. </div></div>


You are not fanning the flame at all.

First off, the M16/M4 is not considered a "machine gun" in the eyes of the Military. They are "full automatic rifles". It was never meant to reliably sustain the rate of fire that a GPMG such as M249/M60/M240 can.

For the M60, I remember being taught to keep the gun reliable (again this is called "sustained rate of fire"), we had to shoot about 100 rounds per minute, and even doing this, we had to change the barrels about once every 10 minutes.

For the M249, it is even worse, the sustained rate of fire was 50 rounds per minute. This is not what you were taught in Call of Duty or the movie Rambo right? I am sorry.

Now understanding "sustained rate of fire" and getting back to the M4... do you not now see how impressive that video of the M4 is?

 

[cox308]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

I understand that the M4 wasn't desidned for that type of sustained fire and the gun in the video was impressive for sure. I just think a quality Piston AR would have gone on longer before failing. I'd still like to hear your thoughts on this...

 

[cox308]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

Another thing I'd like to mention how a lot of people keep mentioning that a Piston AR is so much more expensive. Extra $1000 etc. I'm pretty sure Piston AR's start around $1000 just like DI's. If you want to talk about the price of LWRC's and POF's you'll have to compare those prices to Noveske and Vltor AR's and they are just about on par with eachother

 

[5RWill]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cox380</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another thing I'd like to mention how a lot of people keep mentioning that a Piston AR is so much more expensive. Extra $1000 etc. I'm pretty sure Piston AR's start around $1000 just like DI's. If you want to talk about the price of LWRC's and POF's you'll have to compare those prices to Noveske and Vltor AR's and they are just about on par with eachother</div></div>

We're comparing quality not price. Not piston kits for DI rifles either. Reputable piston companies are expensive. BCM, LMT, DD, can be had for under a 1000$ if you work at it. Thats just a fact, because the DI system has the advantage of being standardized where as the piston isn't.

 

[cox308]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We're comparing quality not price. Not piston kits for DI rifles either. Reputable piston companies are expensive. BCM, LMT, DD, can be had for under a 1000$ if you work at it. Thats just a fact, because the DI system has the advantage of being standardized where as the piston isn't. </div></div>

BMC yes, but last I checked LMT's start at 1300+ and DD start at 1500+ and if you want the bells and wistles you're right in LWRC and POF range.

What I'm saying is that you don't need to spend $2000 on a a piston rifle like a lot of people think you do. You can get a stag, M&P, Sig, etc for much cheaper and still have a high quallity and reliable piston gun.

 

[tomahawk84]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

Piston vs Gas,

Gas FTW.

 

[K_4c]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

M60! And your calling me old school? Ha. Before I was selected into our battalion scout platoon I too was a weapons squad TL.... Where not all low speed high drag like you assume.

If you look under you tube with "LWRC International Rigorous Field Testing" in the context field... The LWRC does a 15 mag dump with no issues... Who's to say it couldn't do more....

 

[Jacklulu]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

belly crawl,
Thanks for the Info
I come from:
Boats
Muscle cars
O/U shot guns
and a number of less than INEXPENSIVE Hobbies LOL Haha
Can not wait
Jacklulu

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

Doing a 900 round mag dump through an M16/M4 is like Red Jacket doing twin water cooled M16's... retarded. When is anyone ever, in combat or otherwise, going to dump 900 rounds in a single sitting? Is there even enough real estate on a full plate carrier for 30 magazines?

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cox380</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand that the M4 wasn't desidned for that type of sustained fire and the gun in the video was impressive for sure. I just think a quality Piston AR would have gone on longer before failing. I'd still like to hear your thoughts on this...

</div></div>

The point of this exercise is that the DI M4 can more than handle it's business as a "automatic rifle", heck most of us do not even have automatics.

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K_4c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">M60! And your calling me old school? Ha. Before I was selected into our battalion scout platoon I too was a weapons squad TL.... Where not all low speed high drag like you assume.

If you look under you tube with "LWRC International Rigorous Field Testing" in the context field... The LWRC does a 15 mag dump with no issues... Who's to say it couldn't do more.... </div></div>

The point of this exercise is that the M4 can more than handle it's role as a "fully automatic rifle".. and most of us do not even have an automatic.

I truly believe the short-stroke Piston-AR to be inferior to the DI. It can't handle being over-gassed (such as when you run a silencer). My 16" LWRC shows extreme wear at about 200 rounds (mashed return springs), while my 14.5" Noveske has about close to 5000 rounds through it, about half of those suppressed without issues.

 

[Bevan]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

this is a terrible thread.


just get a di gun

 

[kimberseries1]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cox380</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another thing I'd like to mention how a lot of people keep mentioning that a Piston AR is so much more expensive. Extra $1000 etc. I'm pretty sure Piston AR's start around $1000 just like DI's. If you want to talk about the price of LWRC's and POF's you'll have to compare those prices to Noveske and Vltor AR's and they are just about on par with eachother </div></div>

If you are talking $1000 piston setups, you are talking DI-intended guns with a piston shoe-horned into it. LWRC, POF, PWS are <span style="text-decoration: underline">engineered </span>from the ground up FOR the piston, not converted. So if you want to compare apples to apples from reliability and quality, you need to compare LWRC to BCM/DD, not Stag's piston to BCM/DD....

 

[kimberseries1]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

.....and you're back to +$1,000 or so over DI.

 

[kimberseries1]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cox380</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We're comparing quality not price. Not piston kits for DI rifles either. Reputable piston companies are expensive. BCM, LMT, DD, can be had for under a 1000$ if you work at it. Thats just a fact, because the DI system has the advantage of being standardized where as the piston isn't. </div></div>

BMC yes, but last I checked LMT's start at 1300+ and <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">DD start at 150</span>0+ </span>and if you want the bells and wistles you're right in LWRC and POF range.

What I'm saying is that you don't need to spend $2000 on a a piston rifle like a lot of people think you do. You can get a stag, M&P, Sig, etc for much cheaper and still have a high quallity and reliable piston gun. </div></div>

That's just not factual, DD's can be had in the $1,200 and up range as well, I've seen as low as $1,100 new. The BCM I bought was $1,050 brand new from a store. They sell online as well, but I'm not sure I'm allowed to say those kinds of things on here without stepping on toes.

 

[Afghanvet09]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

was thinking about a piston AR and now just think I will stick to my piston AK74. low cost, low maintenance, & highly reliable. And if the gun stops working, the bayonet won't. When that breaks - what's left will make a good club...

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

Let's not get off the subject.. Remember EricCartmann is the friggin idiot! A doctor even said so!!!

 

[Bevan]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

I think he said you were fucking stupid actually but I could be wrong

 

[KillShot]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bevan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think he said you were fucking stupid actually but I could be wrong</div></div>


Ha ha ha ha! Now that's pretty funny; just one of the many reasons why I love this place!

 

[cox308]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kimberseries1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cox380</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BMC yes, but last I checked LMT's start at 1300+ and <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">DD start at 150</span>0+ </span>and if you want the bells and wistles you're right in LWRC and POF range.

What I'm saying is that you don't need to spend $2000 on a a piston rifle like a lot of people think you do. You can get a stag, M&P, Sig, etc for much cheaper and still have a high quallity and reliable piston gun. </div></div>

That's just not factual, DD's can be had in the $1,200 and up range as well, I've seen as low as $1,100 new. The BCM I bought was $1,050 brand new from a store. They sell online as well, but I'm not sure I'm allowed to say those kinds of things on here without stepping on toes. </div></div>

Like I said...yes with the BCM. BCM is not in the same level of quality as DD, LMT, etc <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">IMO</span></span>. But I gotta call BS on the new DD for $1100. Maybe a couple years ago. PM me the link and I'll digress

As for LMT... their Defender Piston 16 model(msrp $2117.00) is only $200 more than the same Defender 16 model in DI(msrp $1892.00). So to say a DI LMT is WAY less than a Piston LMT is only true is your talking about a DI basic patol model and a Enhanced Piston model. That to me is apples to oranges. For someone to say a DI LMT can be had for x amount of money...as soon as LMT makes a piston basic patrol model it won't be much more. Of coarse they came out with the Piston model only available in the enhanced version first. Just like most other companys did. They will probably come out with the basic patrol piston model down the road.

I forgot to mention Ruger and even Bushmaster makes some really nice quality Piston AR's at some pretty low price points

 

[5RWill]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cox380</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Like I said...yes with the BCM. BCM is not in the same level of quality as DD, LMT, etc <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">IMO</span></span>. But I gotta call BS on the new DD for $1100. Maybe a couple years ago. PM me the link and I'll digress

As for LMT... their Defender Piston 16 model(msrp $2117.00) is only $200 more than the same Defender 16 model in DI(msrp $1892.00). So to say a DI LMT is WAY less than a Piston LMT is only true is your talking about a DI basic patol model and a Enhanced Piston model. That to me is apples to oranges. For someone to say a DI LMT can be had for x amount of money...as soon as LMT makes a piston basic patrol model it won't be much more. Of coarse they came out with the Piston model only available in the enhanced version first. Just like most other companys did. They will probably come out with the basic patrol piston model down the road.

I forgot to mention Ruger and even Bushmaster makes some really nice quality Piston AR's at some pretty low price points</div></div>

I'm not trying to flame your or anything but i would honestly like to know why you believe BCM isn't in the same level of quality as DD or LMT?

 

[cox308]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm not trying to flame your or anything but i would honestly like to know why you believe BCM isn't in the same level of quality as DD or LMT? </div></div>

No flame taken. Maybe quality isn't the right word. DD, LMT, La Rue, LWRC, Noveske and other top end company's just seem to have the better machining, fit and finish, and coatings etc. BCM is great for the price for sure probably one of the best but when cost isn't a factor the other higher end AR's are just better IMO

It's like toyota(BCM) vs Mercedes(DD), Jag(LMT), Porche(LWRC), Ferrari(Noveske)

Not everyone can afford a Ferrari including myself. I'm quite happy with my 4runner and I'd own/shoot a BCM AR anytime

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bevan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think he said you were fucking stupid actually but I could be wrong </div></div>

this is true!

His exact words were "but to say a gas gun is superior to a piston AR is fucking stupid."

 

[KillShot]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

To say one is better than the other is simply a matter of opinion. It won't be until they can both be put through the same rigor testing until one shows signs of malfunction that you can say one is superior to the other. Additionally, all piston designs are not created the same so to judge them equally would be foolish because there are different methods of operation.

 

[K_4c]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

Notice how I said what you stated was fucking stupid and not you as a individual?

I was attacking your statement... Not you. I even agreed with a few of the subjects/discrepancies you brought up on the piston driven AR.

Take it how you want but that was not my intention to slander you as a person.

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To say one is better than the other is simply a matter of opinion. It won't be until they can both be put through the same rigor testing until one shows signs of malfunction that you can say one is superior to the other. Additionally, all piston designs are not created the same so to judge them equally would be foolish because there are different methods of operation. </div></div>

Vietnam War, Panama, Gulf War, OIF1, OIF2, etc.. what more testing do you need?

Adding a Piston in place of a gas tube in the AR platform that has worked well for 50 years.. what for?

There is nothing a Piston AR can do that a DI AR cannot. Eugene Stoner was no dummy, if he felt the AR needed a piston, he would have put one in. Stoner did create piston guns, so don't think he is stuck on the DI either.

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K_4c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Notice how I said what you stated was fucking stupid and not you as a individual?

I was attacking your statement... Not you. I even agreed with a few of the subjects/discrepancies you brought up on the piston driven AR.

Take it how you want but that was not my intention to slander you as a person. </div></div>

I don't agree.. I think saying a "DI is superior to Piston" is Fucking smart!

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cox380</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Like I said...yes with the BCM. BCM is not in the same level of quality as DD, LMT, etc <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">IMO</span></span>. </div></div>

You're right, BCM is higher quality than LMT. At least according to the specs. Hell, NOVESKE even cuts a few corners BCM doesn't.

I own products from pretty much all the brands and machining on any of the parts that matter is pretty much equal among LMT, Colt, BCM, DD, etc. Finish? None have perfect finish. Finish doesn't matter much on ARs.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K_4c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Notice how I said what you stated was fucking stupid and not you as a individual?

I was attacking your statement... Not you. I even agreed with a few of the subjects/discrepancies you brought up on the piston driven AR.

Take it how you want but that was not my intention to slander you as a person. </div></div>

I don't agree.. I think saying a "DI is superior to Piston" is Fucking smart! </div></div>

Were I you, I'd qualify that statement with "DI is superior to piston on Stoner-pattern ARs".

You cannot fundamentally say that across platforms one operating system is better than another. Ever seen a DI conversion for an AK? Do you think you ever will? Why? Guns are best left to the operating system which they were designed, rather than shoe-horning something in them causing a whole host of new problems.

 

[KillShot]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

I digress and won't be replying any further. Within this topic, EricCartmann has turned this into a shit storm and in doing so, has proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that you can have an engineering degree and still be <span style="font-style: italic">fuckin stupid</span> and a troll.

I'm now understanding why keeping you banned would be a good idea.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I digress and won't be replying any further. Within this topic, EricCartmann has turned this into a shit storm and in doing so, has proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that you can have an engineering degree and still be <span style="font-style: italic">fuckin stupid</span> and a troll.

I'm now understanding why keeping you banned would be a good idea. </div></div>

But he win's motorcyle races... and he has trophies... I heard he's going to star in new Dos Equis commercials as the most interesting troll. He is better than us...

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[EricCartmann]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

....

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I digress and won't be replying any further. Within this topic, EricCartmann has turned this into a shit storm and in doing so, has proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that you can have an engineering degree and still be <span style="font-style: italic">fuckin stupid</span> and a troll.

I'm now understanding why keeping you banned would be a good idea. </div></div>

But he win's motorcyle races... and he has trophies... I heard he's going to star in new Dos Equis commercials as the most interesting troll. He is better than us...

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tBj4Ny19vfQ"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tBj4Ny19vfQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object> </div></div>


why all the hate?

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K_4c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Notice how I said what you stated was fucking stupid and not you as a individual?

I was attacking your statement... Not you. I even agreed with a few of the subjects/discrepancies you brought up on the piston driven AR.

Take it how you want but that was not my intention to slander you as a person. </div></div>

I don't agree.. I think saying a "DI is superior to Piston" is Fucking smart! </div></div>

Were I you, I'd qualify that statement with "DI is superior to piston on Stoner-pattern ARs".

You cannot fundamentally say that across platforms one operating system is better than another. Ever seen a DI conversion for an AK? Do you think you ever will? Why? Guns are best left to the operating system which they were designed, rather than shoe-horning something in them causing a whole host of new problems.

</div></div>

I thought it was clear we were talking about AR's? Did you think I was talking about puppies? That DI-puppies are better than piston-puppies?