Piston vs Gas for an AR???

#201
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I digress and won't be replying any further. Within this topic, EricCartmann has turned this into a shit storm and in doing so, has proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that you can have an engineering degree and still be <span style="font-style: italic">fuckin stupid</span> and a troll.

I'm now understanding why keeping you banned would be a good idea. </div></div>


Why so angry?

All I said was DI-AR's is more superior than Piston-AR's for multiple reasons. I can go over the reasons again if you want?

Please tell me why you think a Piston-AR is more superior? I will be happy to have this discussion again.
 
#203
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cox380</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BMC yes, but last I checked LMT's start at 1300+ and <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">DD start at 150</span>0+ </span>and if you want the bells and wistles you're right in LWRC and POF range.


What I'm saying is that you don't need to spend $2000 on a a piston rifle like a lot of people think you do. You can get a stag, M&P, Sig, etc for much cheaper and still have a high quallity and reliable piston gun. </div></div>

I certainly wouldn't go so far as to call Stag or M&P reliable piston guns. I'm sure some people have had good ones, but I would not consider them battle worthy at all. As for Ruger or Sig pistons, I wouldn't consider them battle reliable either. They may be good, but you're talking like they're the same level as LMT, POF, or LWRC; and I don't make that connection at all.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kimberseries1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That's just not factual, DD's can be had in the $1,200 and up range as well, I've seen as low as $1,100 new. The BCM I bought was $1,050 brand new from a store. They sell online as well, but I'm not sure I'm allowed to say those kinds of things on here without stepping on toes......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cox380</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Like I said...yes with the BCM. BCM is not in the same level of quality as DD, LMT, etc <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">IMO</span></span>. But I gotta call BS on the new DD for $1100. Maybe a couple years ago. PM me the link and I'll digress</div></div></div></div>



PM coming.....and specifically there are DD's for $1050, $1100, and SEVERAL from $1200.


Also, not trying to start an Eric Cartman flame war, but I'm looking for your opinion on how BCM is not up to the same quality as DD.




<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cox380</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As for LMT... their Defender Piston 16 model(msrp $2117.00) is only $200 more than the same Defender 16 model in DI(msrp $1892.00). So to say a DI LMT is WAY less than a Piston LMT is only true is your talking about a DI basic patol model and a Enhanced Piston model. That to me is apples to oranges. For someone to say a DI LMT can be had for x amount of money...as soon as LMT makes a piston basic patrol model it won't be much more. Of coarse they came out with the Piston model only available in the enhanced version first. Just like most other companys did. They will probably come out with the basic patrol piston model down the road.</div></div>


I'm sure the LMT DI for $1,800 is fine, but unless I'm buying a Noveske, I'm not paying above $1,400 for a DI. I mean, why don't we just compare a $2200 Noveske Switchblock to a $1,000 Stag Piston and say "Pistons are way cheaper than DI's"





<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cox380</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I forgot to mention Ruger and even Bushmaster makes some really nice quality Piston AR's at some pretty low price points </div></div>

Once again, I'm sure they go bang, but to put Ruger and Bushmaster pistons at the same level of quality as LMT or LWRC is a defenseless position.
 
#204
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cox380</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
kimberseries1 said:
cox380 said:
BMC yes, but last I checked LMT's start at 1300+ and <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">DD start at 150</span>0+ </span>and if you want the bells and wistles you're right in LWRC and POF range.
</div></div>


PM sent for a great place to find DD's from $1050 and up, and SEVERAL from the $1200's. If anyone else wants the link, just pm me and I'll reply.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
#206
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cox380</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm not trying to flame your or anything but i would honestly like to know why you believe BCM isn't in the same level of quality as DD or LMT? </div></div>

No flame taken. Maybe quality isn't the right word. DD, LMT, La Rue, LWRC, Noveske and other top end company's just seem to have the better machining, fit and finish, and coatings etc. BCM is great for the price for sure probably one of the best but when cost isn't a factor the other higher end AR's are just better IMO

It's like toyota(BCM) vs Mercedes(DD), Jag(LMT), Porche(LWRC), Ferrari(Noveske)

Not everyone can afford a Ferrari including myself. I'm quite happy with my 4runner and I'd own/shoot a BCM AR anytime

</div></div>

I've actually got a better analogy for you:
Toyota(Spike's, Stag) vs Mercedes(DD, BCM, LMT, Colt, Noveske) vs Jag(Jags suck so I'll skip) vs Ferrari (GAP & other full house customs/semi-customs)

And by the way, I could care less how nice the machining marks are, if it's a Delton and looks like a blued Colt Python, I could still care less, it's still a Delton.......

I'm concerned about what's UNDER the hood.
 
#208
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

I hate these vs threads as they never accomplish anything.
Anyhow I have both systems piston and DI and never have ran into any issues with either system under conventional use.* see under combat use note.

However once you switch to suppressed it is a whole different game. I shot 200rds of Black Hills 77 smk in my DI and in my piston system. After about 10rds the DI was coated with carbon and some was on top of the rounds in the magazine. Using the piston system after about 100rds did not notice any carbon anywhere on the bolt or mag. At about 200rds it started to gather small amounts of carbon on the bolt face, and on the top of the magazine.

I am going to see how long each one will go before I need to clean them.

*note: I have 3 M4s go down in combat ops, they where not mine soldiers of mine. One the gas tube bent on the second shot where the bolt meets. The 2nd one the bolt fell apart where the gas tube is attached on the 1st shot. The 3rd one after about 60 or so rounds full auto fire, the bolt and gas tube seized ripping the tube somewhat out of the gas block causing malfunction.
 
#209
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

http://www.usnews.com/news/washington-wh...-laden-revealed

Piston ar's haven't been in service for 50+ years either... but the said shitty piston AR has some noticeable customers (i.e contractors, SF and CIA agents) and was apparently used in a pretty successful mission..

But whos to say...guess those bullshit marketing schemes tricked even our nations brightest individuals.
 
#210
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K_4c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.usnews.com/news/washington-wh...-laden-revealed

Piston ar's haven't been in service for 50+ years either... but the said shitty piston AR has some noticeable customers (i.e contractors, SF and CIA agents) and was apparently used in a pretty successful mission..

But whos to say...guess those bullshit marketing schemes tricked even our nations brightest individuals. </div></div>


It's ok to take a side. No one will fault you (other than all the "OPERATORS" on SnipersHide) for having a preference.
 
#211
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankythefly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hate these vs threads as they never accomplish anything.
Anyhow I have both systems piston and DI and never have ran into any issues with either system under conventional use.* see under combat use note.

However once you switch to suppressed it is a whole different game. I shot 200rds of Black Hills 77 smk in my DI and in my piston system. After about 10rds the DI was coated with carbon and some was on top of the rounds in the magazine. Using the piston system after about 100rds did not notice any carbon anywhere on the bolt or mag. At about 200rds it started to gather small amounts of carbon on the bolt face, and on the top of the magazine.

I am going to see how long each one will go before I need to clean them.

*note: I have 3 M4s go down in combat ops, they where not mine soldiers of mine. One the gas tube bent on the second shot where the bolt meets. The 2nd one the bolt fell apart where the gas tube is attached on the 1st shot. The 3rd one after about 60 or so rounds full auto fire, the bolt and gas tube seized ripping the tube somewhat out of the gas block causing malfunction. </div></div>

Once you learn to ignore the personal attacks, they actually have some pretty cool discussions in them.
 
#213
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kimberseries1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
PM sent for a great place to find DD's from $1050 and up, and SEVERAL from the $1200's. If anyone else wants the link, just pm me and I'll reply. </div></div>

I digress! Youre right. I didn't realize DD's could be had for that much.

I also didn't realize that BCM was held with that high of regards.

I wasn't trying to compair ruger, bushy, etc with LMT, LWRC etc. sorry if it sounded that way.

Lastly, I would post that link as it is a great site with great deals on DD's
 
#214
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K_4c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's cool with me.. If your on a two way range and you prefer the DI AR... I respect that. </div></div>

I would have no problems using it at a one way, 2 way, or 10 way range.
 
#215
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cox380</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kimberseries1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
PM sent for a great place to find DD's from $1050 and up, and SEVERAL from the $1200's. If anyone else wants the link, just pm me and I'll reply. </div></div>

I digress! Youre right. I didn't realize DD's could be had for that much.

I also didn't realize that BCM was held with that high of regards.

I wasn't trying to compair ruger, bushy, etc with LMT, LWRC etc. sorry if it sounded that way.

Lastly, I would post that link as it is a great site with great deals on DD's </div></div>

No problem, I'm sure they are great too, just not near as tall a pedestal.

Sweet, it really is a great place to buy!!

I buy my guns from <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Cypress Armory!</span></span> I live close by, but they sell online as well, and have a nice website.

Here's a link for the $1,050 and up Daniel Defense's:
http://www.cypressarmory.com/cypress/ind...amp;x=0&y=0

The one for $1,100 and the one for $1,050 are on page 2, but there's more guns on page 1 so I linked it.
 
#216
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

how many piston designs have been done over the past 30 years??........its just getting old.I am older and have seen them come and go, and every time someone came out with one, it was the cats ass,according to those that sold them and those that bought them. most were proven faulty in the end,from what I can remember.

I understand,nowadays, there are quite a few happy campers that like piston AR's with cans, and some feel its a better choice, for various reasons. everyone has different needs and it seems to be quite a few guys that say they have nothing but good luck with their new piston gun purchase. fair enough. I think its great to have threads like this, and through them I have gained some respect for "certain reasons" to get a piston AR. if its old hat for some then dont read such things ,I guess? IMO, DI is still is the best overall.

But its pretty sad,IMO, to see some of these manufacturers, make videos or statements"like improved reliability" they insinuate that DI is a FAILED system. flat out lying and smearing a great design,inorder to sell their product.comments like "well the rifle length DI system,worked fine,but when they went to a carbine system,it was bad and unreliable" totally asinine. yeah,thats bullshit marketing scheme.
 
#217
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

IMO its a solution to a non-existent problem.
ARs will run very well when kept "combat clean".
Having put thousands of rounds through my personal carbines and more when "in country". In my experience and the team I ran with, no one had equipment issues relating to weapons.
M16s, CAR15s, used mostly.
Todays M4s with the improved feedramps help reliability even more.
just my .02
 
#218
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

this is a 22 page thread and so if this has been addressed earlier and I missed when I skimmed -sorry. any significant change in weight distribution with a piston ar v di? also heard others say the piston AR gas block can get really hot.

either of these real AR piston problems or non-issues? only used DI AR's here and wondering..
 
#219
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: medcpt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this is a 22 page thread and so if this has been addressed earlier and I missed when I skimmed -sorry. any significant change in weight distribution with a piston ar v di? also heard others say the piston AR gets very hot at gas block.

either of these real AR piston problems or non-issues if your someone whose only used DI AR's? </div></div>

Pistons typically weigh more. As far as distribution goes I would imagine they'd be heavier on the back end.
 
#220
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: medcpt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this is a 22 page thread and so if this has been addressed earlier and I missed when I skimmed -sorry. any significant change in weight distribution with a piston ar v di? also heard others say the piston AR gas block can get really hot.

either of these real AR piston problems or non-issues? only used DI AR's here and wondering.. </div></div>

The pistons I've handled are usually heavier in the mid-to-front end, but not front end heavy like a 20" bull bbl. They are heavier, but no heavier than a RR, or Ruger, or even a Sig.


Not familiar with FA fire with pistons, so I can't comment on gas block heat.
 
#221
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: medcpt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... heard others say the piston AR gas block can get really hot.... </div></div>

All AR gas block get really hot but with the piston the heat ends there instead of going to your BCG.
 
#223
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

Bump!

I love discussions like these. Part of being a gun fan is to talk about them! In real life I have these types discussions all the time, but for some reason on the internet, it always turns into personal attacks. I guess everyone feels like their authority should not be questioned?

It's even cooler when you disagree with one of the "cool kids" on the internet, this way I can watch there herd chime in and follow.

For some reason I get labeled the troll? I guess as long as I always agree with the cool kids I will not be labeled a troll
laugh.gif
 
#225
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bump!

I love discussions like these. Part of being a gun fan is to talk about them! In real life I have these types discussions all the time, but for some reason on the internet, it always turns into personal attacks. I guess everyone feels like their authority should not be questioned?

It's even cooler when you disagree with one of the "cool kids" on the internet, this way I can watch there herd chime in and follow.

For some reason I get labeled the troll? I guess as long as I always agree with the cool kids I will not be labeled a troll
laugh.gif
</div></div>

Your such a trend setter and non-conformist. Way to take the burden on your shoulders... Lol... BTW the pot & kettle left a message here for you. They want to know what time you're meeting up with them?
 
#226
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZDCLgUmoG4w"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZDCLgUmoG4w" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

I like this video. Regular DI 3000rds, dust/sand, water, the works. 2 jams due to bump firing which isn't meant for the weapon anyway. Thing is dirty as hell by the end of the test, still running. Piston will more than likely do the same. Just a preference. YMMV that's my take on it probably last post in this particular argumental discussion.
 
#227
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

have these centurian tactical guys ever seen what can happen when you fire an M4 after it's submerged in water? Not something I would try...

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/r3TMh1qkjFk"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/r3TMh1qkjFk" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

 
#228
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

^^^ the gun only blew up because they didn't let it drain for a couple seconds like in the other video. Yes a piston gun can be shot a couple seconds sooner after being under water but in a gun fight whats a couple seconds anyway?? Lol
 
#229
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cox380</div><div class="ubbcode-body">^^^ the gun only blew up because they didn't let it drain for a couple seconds like in the other video. Yes a piston gun can be shot a couple seconds sooner after being under water but in a gun fight whats a couple seconds anyway?? Lol </div></div>

This is true. When I am doing Navy SEALS training with my 5-7 year old nieces in my swimming pool (gun under water, but no live ammo).. I make them drain the barrel for 2 seconds before they yell bang bang. If they forget to drain and yell "bang" then I will say "KABOOM!!" and let them know their gun blew up because the built up gas could not push the water out of the gun, thereby causing extreme pressure to build up.
 
#232
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K_4c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll be damned... Even the Marines picked a piston... a fully automatic squad based weapon system.

</div></div>

I have no idea why they would do such a thing because <span style="font-style: italic">there is no benefit to having a gas piston AR</span>, at least that's what I recall reading somewhere.
wink.gif
 
#233
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K_4c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll be damned... Even the Marines picked a piston... a fully automatic squad based weapon system.

</div></div>

I have no idea why they would do such a thing because <span style="font-style: italic">there is no benefit to having a gas piston AR</span>, at least that's what I recall reading somewhere. </div></div>

Yep, just a solution looking for a problem. Maybe it found one!
 
#234
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

HK makes good stuff. If there is anyone who I think can make a piston AR, it is them.

Also they are one of the big boys so they have resources to make sure the "Decision Makers" get their fair share of lap dances.

Also it's just a replacement for the SAW, until the next gen SAW comes along. Then again, if these things can come with spare barrels and 100 round Sure Fire mags, then I can see it being a more long term solution.

I am sure these things will have beefier pistons and weigh a ton.
 
#235
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K_4c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll be damned... Even the Marines picked a piston... a fully automatic squad based weapon system.

</div></div>

I have no idea why they would do such a thing because <span style="font-style: italic">there is no benefit to having a gas piston AR</span>, at least that's what I recall reading somewhere.
wink.gif
</div></div>

I'm still waiting for someone to prove to me just what it is that a piston gun can do that a a DI gun doesn't, or show me where a DI gun failed that a piston didn't.

And please don't think that because the government bought something it is the best. I have 15+ years of government service, including the Marine Corps and I will tell you that is not the case.
 
#237
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jakhamr81</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K_4c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll be damned... Even the Marines picked a piston... a fully automatic squad based weapon system.

</div></div>

I have no idea why they would do such a thing because <span style="font-style: italic">there is no benefit to having a gas piston AR</span>, at least that's what I recall reading somewhere.
wink.gif
</div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">I'm still waiting for someone to prove to me just what it is that a piston gun can do that a a DI gun doesn't, or show me where a DI gun failed that a piston didn't. </span>

And please don't think that because the government bought something it is the best. I have 15+ years of government service, including the Marine Corps and I will tell you that is not the case.</div></div>

Of course you are and some people, such as yourself, will never accept it no matter what they see, hear, or read so it will never matter because in your mind the gas impingement is superior to the gas piston and that's just the way it is, because you think so.
 
#238
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

I like my DI ar's too (my OBR is the tits for accuracy)... But as I stated before many well known and very respected agency's are currently using piston ar's... Tell me why that is? Regardless, my m6a3 has worked flawlessly with a round count up in the 3k range. Very easy to clean, pretty damn accurate (1.5 moa with a t1) and the adjustable gas block (4 different modes/settings) allows for more flexibility than a suppressed and non suppressed gas block (I know DI's have this option as well).
 
#239
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

I have the best solution to this problem everyone send your weapons to me.. i'll test them free of charge. How about that
laugh.gif
never got to put my hands on a top dollar piston rig or a .308 AR platform. I'll pay for shipping what can brown do for you? lol
 
#241
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K_4c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like my DI ar's too (my OBR is the tits for accuracy)... But as I stated before many well known and very respected agency's are currently using piston ar's... Tell me why that is? Regardless, my m6a3 has worked flawlessly with a round count up in the 3k range. Very easy to clean, pretty damn accurate (1.5 moa with a t1) and the adjustable gas block (4 different modes/settings) allows for more flexibility than a suppressed and non suppressed gas block (I know DI's have this option as well).</div></div>

Many cops and troops are asking for pistons most likely because they do not get as dirty. An AR will run just fine dirty, however commanders and armorers do not see it this way.

We are requried to clean our weapons prior to every mission and it really is not a problem, especially with a solvent tank. If you tell a troop they don't have to shine a new style of boots, iron a new uniform, or clean a new weapon system; they will jump on that concept like that whole "change" campaign that so many Americns fell for.
 
#242
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jakhamr81</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm still waiting for someone to prove to me just what it is that a piston gun can do that a a DI gun doesn't, or show me where a DI gun failed that a piston didn't.
</div></div>

Still waiting??? Just watch the second video on the top of this page! Or does that not count?? LMFAO!
 
#243
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

One could always bring up that heat induced into the chamber changes the metals properties (i.e springs, gas rings and other consumable items) and in turn cause premature failure... or just because it can run dirty doesn't mean it functions better than an already clean weapon system.

but I see where your coming from and I'll leave it at that...
 
#244
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cox380</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jakhamr81</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm still waiting for someone to prove to me just what it is that a piston gun can do that a a DI gun doesn't, or show me where a DI gun failed that a piston didn't.
</div></div>

Still waiting??? Just watch the second video on the top of this page! Or does that not count?? LMFAO!</div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cox380</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jakhamr81</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm still waiting for someone to prove to me just what it is that a piston gun can do that a a DI gun doesn't, or show me where a DI gun failed that a piston didn't.
</div></div>

Still waiting??? Just watch the second video on the top of this page! Or does that not count?? LMFAO!</div></div>

Ok, so you could scuba dive with it. I know enough to drain the water out of my barrel/ gas tube, I guess that doesn't mean everyone else does.
 
#245
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jakhamr81</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="font-weight: bold">I'm still waiting for someone to prove to me just what it is that a piston gun can do that a a DI gun doesn't, or show me where a DI gun failed that a piston didn't. </span>

And please don't think that because the government bought something it is the best. I have 15+ years of government service, including the Marine Corps and I will tell you that is not the case.</div></div>

Of course you are and some people, such as yourself, will never accept it no matter what they see, hear, or read so it will never matter because in your mind the gas impingement is superior to the gas piston and that's just the way it is, because you think so. </div></div>


Accepting Piston-AR's are more superior than a DI System is like accepting that donkeys do indeed fly.

I am open to anything, but I would to see evidence. Right now I am not seeing any evidence that a Piston-AR is better than a DI AR.
 
#246
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jakhamr81</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K_4c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like my DI ar's too (my OBR is the tits for accuracy)... But as I stated before many well known and very respected agency's are currently using piston ar's... Tell me why that is? Regardless, my m6a3 has worked flawlessly with a round count up in the 3k range. Very easy to clean, pretty damn accurate (1.5 moa with a t1) and the adjustable gas block (4 different modes/settings) allows for more flexibility than a suppressed and non suppressed gas block (I know DI's have this option as well).</div></div>

Many cops and troops are asking for pistons most likely because they do not get as dirty. An AR will run just fine dirty, however commanders and armorers do not see it this way.

We are requried to clean our weapons prior to every mission and it really is not a problem, especially with a solvent tank. If you tell a troop they don't have to shine a new style of boots, iron a new uniform, or clean a new weapon system; they will jump on that concept like that whole "change" campaign that so many Americns fell for. </div></div>

The Army teaching us a "light coat" of CLP is what gave the DI-AR a bad name. If you go 3 days in the field like this, the lube will dry and all that sand that you collected can be an issue when carbon starts to build up.

Ever since I liberally coat my AR's with Mobil-1, no problems whatsoever, gun even stays cleaner. The Mobil-1 is like a detergent, keeps it clean and no carbon build up. I mostly just wipe down and relube now, no solvent tank needed. Also gun seems to stay cooler with all that lube.
 
#247
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

I can not believe this thread is still going on. Same people arguing over 6 pages. Pretty sure none of you are going to change the others mind if it hasn't happened by now LOL
 
#248
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

This is the most interesting thread Ive read in a while...this arguement will rage on forever. Some people like DI and others prefer piston. I have both. I shoot my Armalite unsupressed so its a DI and works like a champ....its a .308 so it gets a bit dirty but it has never in thousands of rounds had a single failure of any kind. Maybe I just got a "good" one. Do note that the heat build up in the BCG group is alot different than a piston system and in my opinion thats why some guy came up with the piston system.

Somebody thought that eliminating alot of heat build up would make the weapon run cooler...that doesnt mean it would run andy better....wear and tear on the internals may be a bit less but who gives a crap...DI works...period.

I shoot a LWRC piston gun bc I shoot it strictly suppressed and I wanted a "ferrari as someone put it" of guns before I died. Yes, it was expensive as hell but you get what you pay for. The gun was made by a company that builds and specializes in ONLY piston guns. So, just like most well built DI's it will work if maintained properly.

Take your pick - DI or Piston. Dont bash people bc you like one better than the other. Spend your time on practicing and learning shooting techniques and sending rounds downrange rather than squabbling over this. Its funny as hell to read but come on...6 pages of debate is pretty crazy. I dont give a crap what kind of system it is as long as it goes bang every time.

BTW - US military awarded contract to H&K for the IAR rifle system (it's a piston gun) and the HK 416's used by SF are piston guns just to throw some sh*t on the fire.
 
#249
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can not believe this thread is still going on. Same people arguing over 6 pages. Pretty sure none of you are going to change the others mind if it hasn't happened by now LOL </div></div>

I am open to change, and willing to stick around for 100 pages to make sure I get it right.
laugh.gif
 
#250
Re: Piston vs Gas for an AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SteelShot11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is the most interesting thread Ive read in a while...this arguement will rage on forever. Some people like DI and others prefer piston. I have both. I shoot my Armalite unsupressed so its a DI and works like a champ....its a .308 so it gets a bit dirty but it has never in thousands of rounds had a single failure of any kind. Maybe I just got a "good" one. Do note that the heat build up in the BCG group is alot different than a piston system and in my opinion thats why some guy came up with the piston system.

Somebody thought that eliminating alot of heat build up would make the weapon run cooler...that doesnt mean it would run andy better....wear and tear on the internals may be a bit less but who gives a crap...DI works...period.

I shoot a LWRC piston gun bc I shoot it strictly suppressed and I wanted a "ferrari as someone put it" of guns before I died. Yes, it was expensive as hell but you get what you pay for. The gun was made by a company that builds and specializes in ONLY piston guns. So, just like most well built DI's it will work if maintained properly.

Take your pick - DI or Piston. Dont bash people bc you like one better than the other. Spend your time on practicing and learning shooting techniques and sending rounds downrange rather than squabbling over this. Its funny as hell to read but come on...6 pages of debate is pretty crazy. I dont give a crap what kind of system it is as long as it goes bang every time.

BTW - US military awarded contract to H&K for the IAR rifle system (it's a piston gun) and the HK 416's used by SF are piston guns just to throw some sh*t on the fire. </div></div>


M193 is very hot ammo, no problems with the M16, but when the Army starting using more M4's with a carbine length gas system, we saw more keys coming loose (not properly staked), and lugs breaking.. this is because of the excess pressure in the gas system. Lugs break because of excess heat and excess pressure.

What a piston AR was meant to do, is to relieve some of the heat and pressure from the bolt. I guess it did solve that problem, however, now you have extra parts, which makes the gun more front heavy.. not just that, but now the piston assembly takes the brunt of the heat and pressure. In addition with piston you introduce new problems such as carrier tilt. Carrier tilt is a problem in every single piston gun, yes there are band-aids, but the basic design is begging for carrier tilt.

The real solution for all this, was:
1) Have an adjustable gas block to regulate the gas, to prevent short stroking and over pressure.
2) Lube the gun!

The DI M14/M16 more than handles it's role as a "fully automatic rifle".. as an IAR or squad automatic weapon, then you should look elsewhere.
 
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