Hunting & Fishing Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Stop It

[BasraBoy]

Re: Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Stop It

Maybe there should be a new sport....hunting the helihunters?

Pass me that Stinger will ya?

 

[leathel]

Re: Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Stop It

The chopper pilots are not happy as they have also been told they will not be able to "heard" the animal to the shooter and NO shooting is to be done from the chopper so they wont be able to wound them with a shotty to slow them down for the "hunter"

That type of hunting will still be done on private land so those with disability issues etc still can do it but on Public land it is looking less likley to happen.......so the wilderness will not be so cluttered with choppers and hunters may get a chance for a trophy, the chopper boys had applied for huge numbers of animals

 

[DBohn]

Re: Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Sto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: takeaim1st</div><div class="ubbcode-body">50calcruiser, No confusion here at all. Conservation, used in the context of wild game management practice can and should by all means be implemented in a highly ethical manner. For your information, ethics meaning to do what is morally right or wrong.If you choose to have no respect for wild creatures, then let that bear on your conscience,and be representative of your character.The choices an indivdual makes in matters such as the one discussed herein usually reflect the standards one lives up to in the other aspects of their life. </div></div>

It sounds to me like New Zealanders don't have respect for wild creatures by not putting a system in place to control numbers and limit the amount of animals taken each year.

I agree with 50calcruiser that if a person has a tag for an animal and it is taken legally and in season then it shouldn't matter how it was taken. Morals and ethics are opinions and will never be agreed upon by everyone. Someone on this thread brags about hunting elk on foot with a bow without sights being a "fair chase." Let someone like him make the rules and we won't be hunting with scopes on our rifles, hell we won't even be hunting with rifles!

If you don't like the way someone else is hunting then don't hunt that way yourself.

 

[striker nz]

Re: Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Sto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DBohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: takeaim1st</div><div class="ubbcode-body">50calcruiser, No confusion here at all. Conservation, used in the context of wild game management practice can and should by all means be implemented in a highly ethical manner. For your information, ethics meaning to do what is morally right or wrong.If you choose to have no respect for wild creatures, then let that bear on your conscience,and be representative of your character.The choices an indivdual makes in matters such as the one discussed herein usually reflect the standards one lives up to in the other aspects of their life. </div></div>

Note: As far as im aware no operators have signed a permit and hence are still completely and utterly ilegally operating

It sounds to me like New Zealanders don't have respect for wild creatures by not putting a system in place to control numbers and limit the amount of animals taken each year.

I agree with 50calcruiser that if a person has a tag for an animal and it is taken legally and in season then it shouldn't matter how it was taken. Morals and ethics are opinions and will never be agreed upon by everyone. Someone on this thread brags about hunting elk on foot with a bow without sights being a "fair chase." Let someone like him make the rules and we won't be hunting with scopes on our rifles, hell we won't even be hunting with rifles!

If you don't like the way someone else is hunting then don't hunt that way yourself or get the laws changed, but stop whining about it in the meantime. </div></div>

we are trying to get the laws changed and an animal management system in to place how ever the system is been held up by the due process and legislation which we can not control. also you say dont complain about hunting methods used if the animal is taken legally and until feb this year all helihunting has been LEGALLY DEFINED AS AN ILEGALL ACTIVITY. they currently have a temperay permit system in place how ever all current information regarding these operators are still violating their permits terms and conditions. the effects over public land via noise disturbance and animal harssament from the air is hell of a lot of difference than land based hunting

 

[DBohn]

Re: Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Sto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: striker nz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

we are trying to get the laws changed and an animal management system in to place how ever the system is been held up by the due process and legislation which we can not control. also you say dont complain about hunting methods used if the animal is taken legally and until feb this year all helihunting has been LEGALLY DEFINED AS AN ILEGALL ACTIVITY. they currently have a temperay permit system in place how ever all current information regarding these operators are still violating their permits terms and conditions. the effects over public land via noise disturbance and animal harssament from the air is hell of a lot of difference than land based hunting </div></div>

I removed the "or change the laws" part from my previous post because it seems like you are all for changing laws based on ethics and how you think people should hunt. If I misunderstood the way you feel I apologize now before I continue. You stated that helicopters affect hunting on public land via noise disturbance and animal harassment which are two completely legitimate things to consider when making laws on PUBLIC land, private land IMO is a completely different matter. What is not legitimate to consider is whether or not the hunting practice is a "fair" hunt.

One person's idea of a fair hunt is exactly that, their idea, not everyone elses. What about all the people that want to hunt out of a helicopter? They shouldn't be able to do it because some people think it is unfair? That is ridiculous. How is hunting ever going to be fair and what would fair be when it comes to hunting?

I read an article in Barrett magazine about someone using the M98 Bravo .338 lapua to shoot a feral hog and then later during the same hunt taking a hog with dogs and a combat dagger. Was the dagger hunt fairer than the rifle because she was on foot and used a knife or was it less fair because she used dogs?

My point is laws shouldn't be based on someone's idea of fairness because none are the same. Also I think laws on public land should be very different than laws on private land. Using a helicopter on public land could interfere with other hunters and keep them from filling their tag. This would interfere with that hunter's rights to use that public land and would be a legitimate law. Now on the other hand if someone wants to fly a helicopter all over their own land, so be it. As long as bag limits are obeyed and the hunt is during the season what difference does it make.

In North Dakota I can't drive my vehicle off an "established trail" to hunt, except to retrieve a downed animal, even on private land. If I have a deer tag to fill and don't care about tearing up my own land why shouldn't I be able to drive all over my own land as long as I only fill my one tag. Because someone thinks it's unfair to drive while hunting? Bullshit. What is it to anyone else how I hunt on my own land as long as I'm obeying bag limits and seasons. If I shoot the deer with a .22 or a 20mm what difference does it make? The deer's dead, tag's full, hunt's over.

I'll stop now because I'm getting a little off topic, and believe me I could go on all day about stupid ass hunting laws, but it pisses me off when people don't like something so they try to pass laws prohibiting anyone else from using or doing said thing. People need to mind their own business and if you don't like something then don't do it and get over it because you're not that fucking important.

 

[kurt]

Re: Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Sto

Wow i did not know that you can not drive off a established trail on private land in nd when deer hunting. that is bull shit you should be able to drive anywhere you want to on your land. i think that people get science and ethics mixed up way to much when making game laws. just like they are trying to ban hf operations in nd. i would never do it but if some on else wants to that is there decision and not affecting me or anyone else. i am all for proper scientific management of animals but ethics gets mixed in there way to much. i agree no helihunting on public land but if some guy wants to shoot some thing in his back 40 and has a tag let him have at it.

 

[IdahoMike]

Re: Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Stop It

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Critter_Capper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So i guess what I'm getting at is, This practice wouldn't be possible without NZ pilots doing this of their own will. The problem not only lies with foreigners, but also from within.</div></div>

+1

If the option to do such hunting appeals to a guy, and is available. The only one(s) to blame are the organizations who provide such a service, and then on up the ladder. You cant blame the guy who pays for this service because nobody has done anything to stop the service from being available. IMHO its a logical fallacy to to say thats its the hunters fault this is happening. NZ has only themselves to blame for this type of hunting to be allowed (even though it might be illigal, I havent brushed up on my NZ regs in a while...) However even though youd like to, and most of us are guilty of this from time to time. You CANNOT lay blame on the low man on the totem pole.

 

[Triggernometry]

Re: Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Stop It

Morals, ethics, and fair chase aside, we as hunters must be cognizant of how the vast majority of society (those who do not hunt, but do not oppose hunting) view us. Shit like that makes us all look bad.

Same applies to driving off established trails. We already have the stereotype that all hunters are fat, lazy SOBs that drive around shooting everything that moves out the window. Further, proper scientific management of wildlife and hf game-livestock operations are not compatible.

Unfortunately, wildlife management has much more to do with managing people than wildlife.

 

[striker nz]

Re: Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Sto

We ARE NOT TRYING to change the laws regarding this activity on or over private land.You want to do it on private land go for it. THEY ARE DOING THIS ON PUBLIC lANDS and we, The greater public want it to stop.There is very very few people pushing for this activity to go ahead but we still cant get this activity stiffled

 

[striker nz]

Re: Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Stop It

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IdahoMike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Critter_Capper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So i guess what I'm getting at is, This practice wouldn't be possible without NZ pilots doing this of their own will. The problem not only lies with foreigners, but also from within.</div></div>

+1

If the option to do such hunting appeals to a guy, and is available. The only one(s) to blame are the organizations who provide such a service, and then on up the ladder. You cant blame the guy who pays for this service because nobody has done anything to stop the service from being available. IMHO its a logical fallacy to to say thats its the hunters fault this is happening. NZ has only themselves to blame for this type of hunting to be allowed (even though it might be illigal, I havent brushed up on my NZ regs in a while...) However even though youd like to, and most of us are guilty of this from time to time. You CANNOT lay blame on the low man on the totem pole. </div></div>

Its on the harder side of things when we are trying to fight the helihunting operators funded by large amounts of tourist cash and fight OUR OWN managers of public lands DOC.

Note: according to the Infomation I have no operators have signed a temp permit and hence are still illegally operating over public lands

 

[IdahoMike]

Re: Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Stop It

for sure Striker, Illigal is Illigal, so on and so on, that is understood. I dont agree with heli-hunting in the least as the same goes for you. I was just sayin' you cant lay blame soley on the client (american or otherwise). Like CC I would assume the pilots in question are from NZ, therefore the problem cannot be stemming from clients alone.

Sounds like you have some lobbying to do to get yuor govt. involved.

 

[striker nz]

Re: Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Stop It

We are not soley laying the blame on tourists but we have to atack this issue from all angles because we are bacsily being FOBed off by the govt and DOC. Just take a look at how long we have have been lobbying to try and stop the aerial application of 1080 ( sodium fluoroacetate ) and how they continue to ignore us.

 

[leathel]

Re: Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Sto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DBohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: takeaim1st</div><div class="ubbcode-body">50calcruiser, No confusion here at all. Conservation, used in the context of wild game management practice can and should by all means be implemented in a highly ethical manner. For your information, ethics meaning to do what is morally right or wrong.If you choose to have no respect for wild creatures, then let that bear on your conscience,and be representative of your character.The choices an indivdual makes in matters such as the one discussed herein usually reflect the standards one lives up to in the other aspects of their life. </div></div>

It sounds to me like New Zealanders don't have respect for wild creatures by not putting a system in place to control numbers and limit the amount of animals taken each year.

I agree with 50calcruiser that if a person has a tag for an animal and it is taken legally and in season then it shouldn't matter how it was taken. Morals and ethics are opinions and will never be agreed upon by everyone. Someone on this thread brags about hunting elk on foot with a bow without sights being a "fair chase." Let someone like him make the rules and we won't be hunting with scopes on our rifles, hell we won't even be hunting with rifles!

If you don't like the way someone else is hunting then don't hunt that way yourself. </div></div>

There are systems in place to control numbers, There are ground and air culls done by contact shooters, they Target Nanies mostly as they have much higher numbers and are done in smaller periods.

Over here there is no "TAG" system or season, you can hunt year round so I guess you really have no idea what happens over here.
For me it is a hunting ethic and noise nusence in the remote area's, there is plenty of private land for Guides to use choppers for those that think its OK.....just leave the public land out of it.

The ones applying for conscessions are looking to be out every day that weather permits .....goodbye peicefull hunting if it goes ahead and it is just not hunting if you think that is hunting chasing untill an animal cant run anymore you are no hunter

Shooting from within the chopper is not going to be allowed even in the new rules they are trying to get in so those doing that will still be breaking the law.....only contracted Waro and Distruction shooters are permited to do that.

 

[kurt]

Re: Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Sto

if you have no seasons and hunt year round sounds like you have no idea what game management is. maybe they would not have to hire govt shooters to do the work that the responsible sports man can do by managing the herd correctly. if you have all these laws who the fuck is enforcing them? so once all these new regulations are put in place who is going to enforce them?

 

[HOOFER]

Re: Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Sto

there should be the same law thats here, no hunting big game animals the same day having been in an aircraft. hunting and helicopters just dont match, lol, unless haji, coyotes, wolves or hogs are in the mix, then game on

 

[50calibercruiser]

Re: Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Sto

Maybe you guys should stop bawling like a bunch of calves, buy/lease a helicopter, sell hunts, get rich, buy your own land and do what ever the hell you want on it? That would be the American way.

Oh wait...never mind.

 

[leathel]

Re: Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Sto

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCftOy9di2o&feature=player_embedded

Some footage your style 50cal...

Check out the Cham 3/4 the way in....been chased so long they had to go and drag it out of a rock it was hiding behind....

A hunt to be truly proud of

Oh and that stag will probably have been tranked and dropped there like they do on some of the Safari hunts

(not shot on Public land)


The sad part is that sort of hunt is not posable without the NZ guide setting it up....

 

[toddk]

Re: Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Sto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you have no seasons and hunt year round sounds like you have no idea what game management is. </div></div>

That may be because NZ has <span style="font-weight: bold">no native game animals</span> to manage.

I think it's funny people are OK with killing feral hogs in North America out of choppers but it's somehow wrong to do the same basic thing in NZ.

 

[kurt]

Re: Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Sto

pheasants are not native to south dakota and we manage them here. oryx are not native to new mexico and it looks like they have a season and manage them there. so being native or not really has no bearing on if they can or should be managed. sounds like they could ban pissing out side but if they have no one to enforce the laws it doesnt matter people would just keep pissing out side.

 

[leathel]

Re: Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Sto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TMK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you have no seasons and hunt year round sounds like you have no idea what game management is. </div></div>

That may be because NZ has <span style="font-weight: bold">no native game animals</span> to manage.

I think it's funny people are OK with killing feral hogs in North America out of choppers but it's somehow wrong to do the same basic thing in NZ.


</div></div>

Killing Tahr out of choppers for control by contractors is not the issue...That will have to happen still, That only happens a few times a season, what is the issue is haveing choppers hounding animals on a daily basis in areas that are renound for being remote and ground hunting is done with little impact to others....as well as the saftey factors of choppers "herding" the animals to the client already on the ground, there has been plenty of youtube footage allready with the shooter shooting towards the chopper/ camera man......A hunter died last year while Illeagaly choppering Tahr but noone has been charged to date.....Also some have been videoed taking animals from a No Fly zone and DOC have fluffed that case as well,

Kurt you are right.....even if they put some rules down for this type of hunting it has been shown that the ones enforcing the law don't enforce the laws

 

[50calibercruiser]

Re: Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Sto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: leathel</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TMK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you have no seasons and hunt year round sounds like you have no idea what game management is. </div></div>

That may be because NZ has <span style="font-weight: bold">no native game animals</span> to manage.

I think it's funny people are OK with killing feral hogs in North America out of choppers but it's somehow wrong to do the same basic thing in NZ.


</div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Killing Tahr out of choppers for control by contractors is not the issue...That will have to happen still</span>, That only happens a few times a season, what is the issue is haveing choppers hounding animals on a daily basis in areas that are renound for being remote and ground hunting is done with little impact to others....as well as the saftey factors of choppers "herding" the animals to the client already on the ground, there has been plenty of youtube footage allready with the shooter shooting towards the chopper/ camera man......A hunter died last year while Illeagaly choppering Tahr but noone has been charged to date.....Also some have been videoed taking animals from a No Fly zone and DOC have fluffed that case as well,

Kurt you are right.....even if they put some rules down for this type of hunting it has been shown that the ones enforcing the law don't enforce the laws

</div></div>

So what you are saying is, you would rather have the government use your tax dollars than have a private citizen provide the same service, attract foreign tourist dollars, make money and put money into the economy?

 

[striker nz]

Re: Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Sto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 50calcruiser</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: leathel</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TMK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you have no seasons and hunt year round sounds like you have no idea what game management is. </div></div>

That may be because NZ has <span style="font-weight: bold">no native game animals</span> to manage.

I think it's funny people are OK with killing feral hogs in North America out of choppers but it's somehow wrong to do the same basic thing in NZ.


</div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Killing Tahr out of choppers for control by contractors is not the issue...That will have to happen still</span>, That only happens a few times a season, what is the issue is haveing choppers hounding animals on a daily basis in areas that are renound for being remote and ground hunting is done with little impact to others....as well as the saftey factors of choppers "herding" the animals to the client already on the ground, there has been plenty of youtube footage allready with the shooter shooting towards the chopper/ camera man......A hunter died last year while Illeagaly choppering Tahr but noone has been charged to date.....Also some have been videoed taking animals from a No Fly zone and DOC have fluffed that case as well,

Kurt you are right.....even if they put some rules down for this type of hunting it has been shown that the ones enforcing the law don't enforce the laws

</div></div>

So what you are saying is, you would rather have the government use your tax dollars than have a private citizen provide the same service, attract foreign tourist dollars, make money and put money into the economy?
</div></div>

I still dont think you get the seriousness of the situation over here.

how would you like it if we posed as tourists and came over there and with the help of your goverment and organizations managing your game animals and public lands set in place the systematic destruction of all game animals and disruption of your public lands.
they already DUMP hundreds of thousands of tonnes of 1080 laced baits all over our suposeded "GREEN" country.we are GREEN, 1080 GREEN.
we are trying to get in place a game council that will do the animal management and management culls at thir own cost not at taxpayer cost.
the goverment are trying to push this activity through and the department of conservation well the are just an inept pack of w@#kers that cant manage themselves let alone the public lands they are in charge of.

 

[leathel]

Re: Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Sto

50cal
Tahr control done by chopper targets nanies so drops numbers but the "Targeted" bull tahr for its trophy potential is not hit as hard....Where as the heli-hunters will Target trophies and at the rate they have applied for animal numbers the trophy potential will be gone in a few years (tourist hunters wont get results so they are shooting themselves in the foot) but Tahr numbers will still be high as the nanny number will be only increasing

Numbers do need to be managed but I would love it if DOC took it seriously enough to stop the 1080 poison and just did chopper culls....might save some KEA as well as they appear to be a by kill

Me personanly I love to eat Tahr so nanies are just as good to shoot...they are devine on the plate

Just an update some temp consesions have been handed out but with a "NO HEARDING" policy....can't see the chopper boys sticking to the rules.....Hope it gets caught on camera again

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Please Watch.Helihunting New Zealand. Help Sto

Guys, don't you know better'n feeding a troll...?