Problem with Surgeon Round action bolt timing?

[USMCj]

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After watching this video, I pulled out my new Surgeon Round action to see how much cam I was getting and what clearance there was in front and back of the bolt handle cutout when the bolt is closed, and the results are troubling.

Im only getting half of the cam which the video above explains at 2:40 into the video.

The second thing, (watch 1:30 into the same video) there is 10 thou clearance in the back of the bolt handle and bolt handle cutout when the bolt is closed, and about 20-30thou clearance in the front. it should be the other way around, right? I mean once the lugs start to wear, the back of the bolt handle is going to touch the cutout in the receiver.

should I be worried or what?

And those of you with Surgeon round and regular actions, could you please check this on your action and see if its the same as mine, or is mine just out of spec.

thanks
USMCj

 

[beanland]

Re: Problem with Surgeon Round action bolt timing?

i would not worry. Surgeon designed them this way. I'm pretty sure that's the way there meant to be for purposes of shooting in dirty environments.

 

[USMCj]

Re: Problem with Surgeon Round action bolt timing?

sorry but WTF does cam angle and clearance in the front of the cutout have to do with shooting dirty? really!!!

 

[sawhornsoff]

Re: Problem with Surgeon Round action bolt timing?

The cam angle comes into play when you have a sticky/stuck case. Surgeon actions engage the opening cam when a stuck case holds the bolt forward. Otherwise there is not much cam engagement in normal operation.

As far as wear goes, you would have to shoot thousands of rounds before you see a few thou wear. However if you lap the lugs you could alter that. Therefore I would not lap a Surgeon as you cannot reposition the bolt handle to correct any potential timing issue from lapping a Surgeon.

I don't think you have anything wrong with you action. If you have any concerns just give Surgeon a call.

 

[USMCj]

Re: Problem with Surgeon Round action bolt timing?

Thanks, but I think Im going to call them tomorrow.

If anyone has a Surgeon standard and round action, could you please check them and see if they are similar to mine in those 2 areas.

It almost seems that the internal lugs in the receiver were machined back about 20-30 thou too much, hence the bolt being too far back when closed.

 

[beanland]

Re: Problem with Surgeon Round action bolt timing?

I have seen quite a few of those round actions including their standard action and they are all that way. They leave more clearance in these areas than other action manufacturers for dirt, sand or grime. If you don't believe me, just call them and ask them.

 

[USMCj]

Re: Problem with Surgeon Round action bolt timing?

Looks like Im going to have to.

 

[Glen Seekins]

Re: Problem with Surgeon Round action bolt timing?

Is there actually a problem extracting or are you assuming there is because of the video? It is very possible to have clearance and good timing. It just depends on how it was designed. Its their design and im sure they will be happy to tell you about it. IMO, if you don't actually have a problem exacting i wouldnt worry about it and would have fun shooting a nice rifle....

 

[USMCj]

Re: Problem with Surgeon Round action bolt timing?

The rifle has not been built yet, its just the action. My main concern is not the cam angle as much as the clearance in fron and rear of the bolt handle and the cutout on the receiver.

Ill take a pic to show you what Im talking about.

 

[Hateca]

Re: Problem with Surgeon Round action bolt timing?

You are comparing apples to oranges when you are talking about a Remington action with a two piece bolt and handle and a Surgeon.

They are all that way, they were designed that way, and there is nothing to worry about.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sorry but WTF does cam angle and clearance in the front of the cutout have to do with shooting dirty? really!!! </div></div>

Because when you push the bolt handle forward to give yourself more cam angle (which you may or may not need) you are also going to take up bolt lug and action lug clearance that can cause you a stuck or sticky bolt if you shoot in a dirty environment, or get a blown primer, over pressure load, or any of a number of other things.

Remember a lot of what you see, hear, or read about is directly related to bench rest shooting where all shooting is done in a totally different averment then a down in the dirt rifle. There is a reason most BR action and bolts are nice and polished.

Cam angle and timing are two different things but are also related. Don't confuse the two and don't assume from that video or from anything else that your Surgeon, or your Remington is broken. Again they are all that way and have been for as long as I have built using them and I have never had a bolt failure of any kind with a Surgeon.

Here if it look like this one then you have nothing to worry about.

With the bolt back against the action lugs the bolt handle is in the center of the bolt cut-out, at least by my eye it is.

 

[USMCj]

Re: Problem with Surgeon Round action bolt timing?

 

[cypriss32]

Re: Problem with Surgeon Round action bolt timing?

My action looks good....

 

[USMCj]

Re: Problem with Surgeon Round action bolt timing?

Glen, Randy,

comming from the 2 of you, I feel a lot better! enough to not even call Surgeon tomrrow. My mind is at ease.

Thanks guys!
USMCj

 

[USMCj]

Re: Problem with Surgeon Round action bolt timing?

Randy, on my action its not in the center as you can see in the pics. Is this cause for concern?

 

[Hateca]

Re: Problem with Surgeon Round action bolt timing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Randy, on my action its not in the center as you can see in the pics. Is this cause for concern? </div></div>

No. Like I said it was by my eye and it could be a little more to the rear but I didn't want to go out into the shop and get the feeler gages. Your action looks just fine.

 

[USMCj]

Re: Problem with Surgeon Round action bolt timing?

Cool, thanks Randy!

 

[Glen Seekins]

Re: Problem with Surgeon Round action bolt timing?

I don't know...I think you should send it to me so i can see for myslef. I need a new action to use on anther build. Promise i wont shoot too many barrels out with it

 

[cypriss32]

Re: Problem with Surgeon Round action bolt timing?

Glen dont get any ideas, thats my next WSM action...

 

[USMCj]

Re: Problem with Surgeon Round action bolt timing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heatseekins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know...I think you should send it to me so i can see for myslef. I need a new action to use on anther build. Promise i wont shoot too many barrels out with it

</div></div>

LOL, this is my first custom action, and its going to be a 7WSM! I have every thing ready to go for the build except for the barrel. I got in on the Rock group buy so Im waiting for that to come so I can proceed with the build.

I can not wait!

 

[Glen Seekins]

Re: Problem with Surgeon Round action bolt timing?

I shoot 162's out of my rock and its scary fast and accurate. have some sub 2" groups at 700 yds. Went with a 23.5" barrel and still get 3200fps. Your going to like it..

 

[USMCj]

Re: Problem with Surgeon Round action bolt timing?

Thanks Glen, Im going to go with a 28" finish on the barrel so I can have one set back to 26 when the throat wears. Whats your load for the 162's? and is yours throated for the 162's or 180's?