questions about reducing bolt lift; savage action

[logic factory]

i have already read most the common thread pertaining to the title. i will be finishing up my 38 special/357 case with set screw or ball bearing tomorrow. i will then machine down my bolst assemble screw (bas) to create a cleaner look than adding a spacer the thickness the cartridge rim and ball bearing or set crew pertude above normal surface. i will take an image or two for those that may be confused by my pour description.

i also plan on polishing the surfaces highlighted in the following link; http://www.steyrscout.org/savscout.htm

here in lies my question:
have any of you ever removed some material from the ramp the cocking mechanism rides? i do not want to make it knife edge but i think because there is not much pressure on it i should be able to grind some of the inside edge away resulting in less available surface thus possible reducing friction. after this i will polish the surface to.
this image is taken from the above link to describe the surface i am referring to.

i am open to other advice as well.

 

[turbo54]

Re: questions about reducing bolt lift; savage action

I didn't change the geometry of the cocking ramp, but I did polish it, and it helped a bit.

I also *slightly* cut away some of the material that forms the detent the top of the ramp to make the feel of the cocking piece popping into the detent a little less pronounced and smoother.

That, plus the 357 case with 5/32" ball bearing, plus getting the action and bolt nitrided really, really smoothed my action out. It's hard to believe it's a Savage now!

 

[logic factory]

Re: questions about reducing bolt lift; savage action

thank you for sharing your experience. i will now remove a little material from that detent spot as well, thank you. i will spend some time and think about if there are any other surfaces that make contact when cocking the rifle.

just to be clear, i am maintaining the stock slope the cocking mechanism slides up but my goal it to make that slope a little thinner. that bolt is too hard for most files and tools i have so i may have to abandon this idea soon after i try.

we may have been on the same page but i just wanted to make sure.

 

[rusty815]

Re: questions about reducing bolt lift; savage action

An oversized bolt knob helps with reducing bolt lift.

 

[turbo54]

Re: questions about reducing bolt lift; savage action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: logic factory</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thank you for sharing your experience. i will now remove a little material from that detent spot as well, thank you. i will spend some time and think about if there are any other surfaces that make contact when cocking the rifle.

just to be clear, i am maintaining the stock slope the cocking mechanism slides up but my goal it to make that slope a little thinner. that bolt is too hard for most files and tools i have so i may have to abandon this idea soon after i try.

we may have been on the same page but i just wanted to make sure. </div></div>

No steel is too hard for stone! Grind it!

That said, be careful!

I believe Karl Feldcamp has recut the ramp on savages to make lift easier. Give him a ring...Helluva guy.

 

[bear_blade]

Re: questions about reducing bolt lift; savage action

I installed a ball bearing lift kit in mine. Bolt lift is smooth, and effort required is reduced considerably.

 

[logic factory]

Re: questions about reducing bolt lift; savage action

rusty815,
thank you for the suggestion. i already altered my bolt in the following ways. i welded some material onto the sides to make it the same rectangle shape it is as it come off the loop; it normally tappered and also had a slight bend backwards in it. these are all gone. i then welded a 9/16" 12pt deep socket to the end and added more than enough filler to then reshape with some files. i was worried at first it was too oversize and i cut it off. i then thought more and took a little length off and welded it back on the next day. i am happy enough to keep it on there. i will put a skin coat of jb weld on there and use some plastic just before it dry to a tacky feel than pull the plastic off to get some texture to the bolt handle. i read about people doing this to their stocks and i think it will work okay in my application as well.

 

[logic factory]

Re: questions about reducing bolt lift; savage action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.</div></div>
i will try to grind it. if i can not gain access to the inside ramp edge with a proper tool to grind the edge a little thinner i will likely just polish the ramp angle up the best i can and call it done.

i have also seen mr. feldcamp's procedure mentioned but never followed up by an image or specifically what he has done. it sounds like he may want to keep this a secret. as long as i do not make the edge to thin i see only gains to be had in reducing friction.

ill update this thread when i am complete.
thank you for the advice.

 

[logic factory]

Re: questions about reducing bolt lift; savage action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bear_blade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.</div></div>
thank you for the great images detailing the modification you chose to reduce bolt lift. i knew that was an option and one i may eventually have to upgrade depending upon how much the surfaces of the ball bearing/set screw and the bas get worn. as of now i am favoring the pointed set screw as i think it has the smallest surface area in contact with the bas. if the bas or set screw point wears to quickly i will have to adopt the thrust? bearing idea you have imaged.
thank you for sharing your images and i hope i can also notice a reduced bolt life from my efforts.

 

[logic factory]

Re: questions about reducing bolt lift; savage action

as i was standing in the hardware section with a 5/32 ball bearing and a 10/32 set screw in my hand something dawned on me. i had not read of anyone locating the ball bearing freely in the primer pocket; read of people using red loctite to secure it in place. i will use some thick grease to keep the ball bearing from falling out the pocket but once the bas is on it there is no chance of it falling out and this should further reduce wear and also friction. i may not get around to assembling it all tonight and taking the material off the bas but when i do ill make a post about my impressions.

 

[logic factory]

Re: questions about reducing bolt lift; savage action

i finally got around to working on her tonight. i trimmed up the .38 special case flush with the primer pocket and added some moly engine assembly lube with graphite to keep the 5/32" ball bearing in place while assembling. i then chucked up an allen key on the drill press that fits in the bas and proceeded to remove the thickness of the rim and ball bearing protrusion. i did this quickly with a file and then spent some time bringing it to a finer finish; almost mirror. i used a couple grits of sand paper and then added some polish to a belt for the last smoothing.

i also removed about half the thickness of the cocking ramps with a carbide bur from inside the bolt. i made sure only the shaft was near the internal bas threads to reduce the chance of screwing them up.

i took a little off the edge just prior to the detent spot.

at this time, it is difficult for me to notice a difference. i would have to compare to a stock stevens/savage with few rounds fired to to help me discern the difference.

i still have to polish all the surfaces minus the bas base. i
was thinking about cycling the bolt many times in the rifle with some lapping compound. is this a bad idea? would there be a better micro abrasive i should use?

 

[p3ripperfw]

Re: questions about reducing bolt lift; savage action

Where can you get that ball bearing kit at?

 

[logic factory]

Re: questions about reducing bolt lift; savage action

the following is taken from this link; http://archery.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=5&t=307564
"http://www.mcmaster.com

Item# 6655K11
Steel Thrust Ball Bearing Steel, for 1/8" Shaft Diameter, 7/16" OD
In stock at $1.88 Each"


for your information: a 5/32" ball bearing will create less friction and less work than the solution above.