**ROUND2 !!**, (100YARD), Semi-Auto, 6group, 30round SHOOTOUT!

[elfster1234]

I kinda had the same deal on my entry just above his with my RRA... two bullets each on my two worst groups (4 total bullets) was the only difference it took in not obtaining first place. That's what makes this so fun and piss you off at the same time.

 

[elfster1234]

I think one thing to keep an eye on when doing this test is "are your groups pretty much in the same location in relation to your point of aim"... if your groups are shifting around a lot from your point of aim & you're not screwing around with your turrets (don't screw with your turrets during the test if possible just so you know),,,, then it can be due to things like shifting shooter position behind the scope / not keeping consistent cheek weld to buttstock, not using parallax correctly OR not having a scope with parallax adjustment, or bad powder drop / load development / using different ammo on different groups. Also, make sure you're shooting straight onto the target and not off at a gross angle. Those are just a few and not the end of the list. One of the worst things you can do during your 5shots is to move your eye away from the center of the scope / remove cheek from consistent cheek weld... after your 5shots are done, then take a breather, but once you start you need to commit for those that are all new to this BS. Scope shadow is your friend here also... keep your glass clear when taking shots! If you see any scope shadow, then get centered on the glass, and then COMMIT to your shots.... Trigger pull is just as important also.... I know lowlight is a hug fan of trigger re-set (watch his videos).. I personally do not do this.

for those that don't reload, you would be amazed how much difference in point of impact, for example, reloading for 7.62x51 40.5 to 43.5 grain varget drop can make.... that 3grain powder drop difference can easily make the bullet impact damn near 2" higher at 100yards, and damn near 6" at 300yards!!

like I said before, this is not about bullseye, its all about groups size.... if possible, I try to shoot directly above or below the bulls (not much tho, like only 3/4 of an inch above or below point of aim).... I try not to hit the actual bulls as I like a nice spot to aim at and shooting up your bulls can screw up your point of aim.... shooting to the left or right of the bulls can skew your groups size by just the smallest amount IF your target size is really big (2'x3' paper in comparison to 8"x11" paper) although it would be really small.... then again, every bit helps in this test.

 

[seanhagerty]

I was not trying to be crtitical of Bluto's shooting abilities, I was attempting to start a discussion on what happens when shooting theses groups.

I agree with what you said elf. There is a lot of mental stuff in pulling that trigger. A teeny tiny group will make you more anxious than a high school prom date. It gets tough to settle down and wait for the right sight picture. The ability to wait does not exist. You know you need to get that last round on paper to see how small it ends up. I have found when I shoot groups, the last few rounds tend to get shot a lot faster than the first few. I dont know how to fix this, other than just get more trigger time. The more I shoot the more it seems I get settled into a rhythym, and even the smallest groups dont knock me out of it.

Sean

 

[bluto51]

I was not trying to be crtitical of Bluto's shooting abilities, I was attempting to start a discussion on what happens when shooting theses groups.

I agree with what you said elf. There is a lot of mental stuff in pulling that trigger. A teeny tiny group will make you more anxious than a high school prom date. It gets tough to settle down and wait for the right sight picture. The ability to wait does not exist. You know you need to get that last round on paper to see how small it ends up. I have found when I shoot groups, the last few rounds tend to get shot a lot faster than the first few. I dont know how to fix this, other than just get more trigger time. The more I shoot the more it seems I get settled into a rhythym, and even the smallest groups dont knock me out of it.

Sean

Elfster and Sean,

Thanks for the comments and the great tips. I think you guys are right on the money about my shooting. I'm just not consistent. There's always
a group or two that open up. Loosing concentration and speeding up are probably two of the biggest factors. Elfster, I definitely
am guilty of shifting shooter position during some strings. This is a killer because it throws off everything. I know it when I do it,
but then it's too late because I can never seem to recover the same position during the string. And Sean, you're right about
getting in a hurry when I think I've got a good group going. I don't do it all the time, but when I do, pfffft, there goes the group.

These 30 shot drills are actually a great challenge because you begin to get good feedback for how things "feel" when you're
shooting good groups vs. bad ones.

Oh yeah, and Elfster, let's hear it for prune juice! LOL

 

[elfster1234]

Im really starting to feel better from my surgery today. Been reloading all day long and might even hit the range tomorrow.

Elfster and Sean,

Thanks for the comments and the great tips. I think you guys are right on the money about my shooting. I'm just not consistent. There's always
a group or two that open up. Loosing concentration and speeding up are probably two of the biggest factors. Elfster, I definitely
am guilty of shifting shooter position during some strings. This is a killer because it throws off everything. I know it when I do it,
but then it's too late because I can never seem to recover the same position during the string. And Sean, you're right about
getting in a hurry when I think I've got a good group going. I don't do it all the time, but when I do, pfffft, there goes the group.

These 30 shot drills are actually a great challenge because you begin to get good feedback for how things "feel" when you're
shooting good groups vs. bad ones.

Oh yeah, and Elfster, let's hear it for prune juice! LOL

 

[wfjames22]

I am an admitted bolt gun guy and I definitely need some more time behind this rifle, as well as some actual load development. She's got a little less than 200rds down the tube after yesterday, think she's due for her first in depth cleaning (barrel).

Shot with my 20" SS LMT MWS 260REM @ 100yards with front & rear bag on bench.
Average was .834"
Best group was .670"
Rifle used = LMT MWS
Barrel Length / Type = 20" stainless steel chambered in 260 Rem
Optics = Nightforce 5.5-22x56
Suppressor= TBAC 30P-1

Shot with reloads
Virgin Winchester 7-08 brass
Winchester LR primers
45.4gr H4350
123gr AMAX
2.810 oal


1.123" + .729" + .670" + .735" + .854" + .892" = 5.003"/ 6 = .834" average

 

[bm11]

Elf- as you have made the point a number of times in the past, clearly the 5.56's, .260's, 6 Creed, etc all tend to smoke the .308's in this comp. I know this is already a lot of work for you, but would it be too much to ask for a separate .308 column? Not to pull the .308 entries away from the standard ranking, but just to have a separate ranking for the .308's, as while they are probably the most popular caliber, as you noted before, after the last comp ran for a while there was only one .308 on the board.

Just a thought!

-Bob

 

[elfster1234]

FYI everyone... I just kicked the 300yard shootout thread back into high gear and will being going at the same time with this thread... so you can do them both!! have fun!

 

[elfster1234]

OHHHH WOW! nice, a little 260 action into the mix! Very nice! I'll get you onto the boards soon and nice rifle / shooting!

I am an admitted bolt gun guy and I definitely need some more time behind this rifle, as well as some actual load development. She's got a little less than 200rds down the tube after yesterday, think she's due for her first in depth cleaning (barrel).

Shot with my 20" SS LMT MWS 260REM @ 100yards with front & rear bag on bench.
Average was .834"
Best group was .670"
Rifle used = LMT MWS
Barrel Length / Type = 20" stainless steel chambered in 260 Rem
Optics = Nightforce 5.5-22x56
Suppressor= TBAC 30P-1

Shot with reloads
Virgin Winchester 7-08 brass
Winchester LR primers
45.4gr H4350
123gr AMAX
2.810 oal


1.123" + .729" + .670" + .735" + .854" + .892" = 5.003"/ 6 = .834" average

 

[elfster1234]

I wish I could bro, but I just started up the 300yard shootout thread from the grave and it is too much work already.. sorry.

Good points tho

Elf- as you have made the point a number of times in the past, clearly the 5.56's, .260's, 6 Creed, etc all tend to smoke the .308's in this comp. I know this is already a lot of work for you, but would it be too much to ask for a separate .308 column? Not to pull the .308 entries away from the standard ranking, but just to have a separate ranking for the .308's, as while they are probably the most popular caliber, as you noted before, after the last comp ran for a while there was only one .308 on the board.

Just a thought!

-Bob

 

[elfster1234]

YOU'RE ON THE BOARDS!! nice work and very consistent groupings! if you can, please write your group sizes on your target and edit your existing target picture if possible as per the OP entry rules.... otherwise, nice rifle / shooting. You know you have consistent groupings when you don't make best single group, but you make 6th place on average.... very nice!

I am an admitted bolt gun guy and I definitely need some more time behind this rifle, as well as some actual load development. She's got a little less than 200rds down the tube after yesterday, think she's due for her first in depth cleaning (barrel).

Shot with my 20" SS LMT MWS 260REM @ 100yards with front & rear bag on bench.
Average was .834"
Best group was .670"
Rifle used = LMT MWS
Barrel Length / Type = 20" stainless steel chambered in 260 Rem
Optics = Nightforce 5.5-22x56
Suppressor= TBAC 30P-1

 

[Quicksilver]

When does this "close"? I can hit the range again (just read the first page of the thread today) this coming Saturday or sooner. Im curious how my loads would stack up.

 

[wfjames22]

YOU'RE ON THE BOARDS!! nice work and very consistent groupings! if you can, please write your group sizes on your target and edit your existing target picture if possible as per the OP entry rules.... otherwise, nice rifle / shooting. You know you have consistent groupings when you don't make best single group, but you make 6th place on average.... very nice!

Thanks for the kind words. I have the group sizes written on the target at the bottom in the data section, but I guess you want them near the groups?

I truly feel like this gun is way more accurate than I am. Hopefully with a little load tweaking and some more trigger time with this gun, I can improve the groups.

 

[997/2man]

James22, that is about what I was getting with my LMT. Thanks for posting, this is how we learn the real deal, you're not some distributor or salesman.

I'm glad that:

.260 Rem groups.

20" SS barrel.

Decent NF scope with enough magnification to shoot 100 yard groups and see pulse, breathing, etc., what I mean is that it is not a 1-6x or a 1-8x combat reticle.

Thanks for doing it, prob. cost you $100 to do it (gas, ammo, food, water, range fee, blah fucking blah).

Like the Elfster says "How many people start this challenge, and then let a couple of groups open up over an inch, and they quit?".

Thank you, James22.

 

[elfster1234]

until someone can fill the "shooter's" .375moa crown = damn near impossible and you have loads of time

I also just dug up the 300yard shootout from the grave and is back up and running.

When does this "close"? I can hit the range again (just read the first page of the thread today) this coming Saturday or sooner. Im curious how my loads would stack up.

 

[elfster1234]

oh,,, I see.. you have them listed below.... I guess this is OK, but I would like it if people would write the actual group size right next to the group so we all know... i'll let this one slide, but please..... next time follow the example entry peps... looks good and nice work... its a kick ass rifle that's for damn sure.

Thanks for the kind words. I have the group sizes written on the target at the bottom in the data section, but I guess you want them near the groups?

I truly feel like this gun is way more accurate than I am. Hopefully with a little load tweaking and some more trigger time with this gun, I can improve the groups.

 

[heydogman]

Nice shooting,wfjames22,
I tried my Protektor 13 B bag this weekend instead of my sand sock.I use it on a bolt gun with a front mechanical rest.First problem I encountered was it was packed so tight I had to adjust elevation with the bipod.Rifle also sat higher and bench seat was too low causing me to lean against the bag.Even with baby powder the rail cover on the PRS stock would slide out and by the 4th shot the the rifle was riding on the bottom rail and sight picture dropped.The bipod won't track straight,either by recoil or sliding(resetting) the rifle by hand.I tried running the bipod on wood,plexiglas and a big socom mouse pad but it tracked to the right every time.
Also once it reached 85 my 123 SMK load that shot well during the winter started cratering primers and pierced one so I quit and shot some 107's.
On the upside the Sightron 24x worked great,can read the fine print at a hundred.
I am ditching the bipod for a Protektor front bag,pin the sliding rail cover on the stock,took a pound of sand out of the rear bag and need to come up with another 123 load though the 107's did shoot pretty good.Sure would be nice if they made a nice FB bullet in.264.

 

[elfster1234]

heydogman, you should give the 300yard run a try

Nice shooting,wfjames22,
I tried my Protektor 13 B bag this weekend instead of my sand sock.I use it on a bolt gun with a front mechanical rest.First problem I encountered was it was packed so tight I had to adjust elevation with the bipod.Rifle also sat higher and bench seat was too low causing me to lean against the bag.Even with baby powder the rail cover on the PRS stock would slide out and by the 4th shot the the rifle was riding on the bottom rail and sight picture dropped.The bipod won't track straight,either by recoil or sliding(resetting) the rifle by hand.I tried running the bipod on wood,plexiglas and a big socom mouse pad but it tracked to the right every time.
Also once it reached 85 my 123 SMK load that shot well during the winter started cratering primers and pierced one so I quit and shot some 107's.
On the upside the Sightron 24x worked great,can read the fine print at a hundred.
I am ditching the bipod for a Protektor front bag,pin the sliding rail cover on the stock,took a pound of sand out of the rear bag and need to come up with another 123 load though the 107's did shoot pretty good.Sure would be nice if they made a nice FB bullet in.264.

 

[bluto51]

Had a better result my second time out.

Shot with my AR15 w/ 16" 1/9 SS Barrel @ 100 yards with front bipod and rear bags.

Average was 0.904
Best Group was 0.528
Rifle Used: RRA upper, Loki Nickle Boron BCG,
JD lower, 3# Timney Trigger
Barrel is 16" RRA SS Match Heavy 1/9 twist with free float JD handguard
Optics Bushnell Elite 3.5-30X50 set at 21X
Mount is M & A 30 mm detachable

Shot with FGMM 69 gr. match ammo

1.162 + 0.528 + 0.539 + 0.676 + 1.397 + 1.122 = 5.424/6 = 0.904 average over 6 groupings of 5 shots each/30 total bullets.



Best Group



Rifle Used



I will try the 300 Yard Challenge next week.

 

[elfster1234]

NICE JOB! not only did you kick my LMT down to 10th place & kicked usmagator / obr off the top ten, but you're tied with John_M44 for best single!! This is the first time I've had to deal with a matching tie value, so I'm making up this rule right now (new rule#16)........ if two people end up with the same value, the first person to post wins... first come first serve type of thing. Nice job on improving your stats and you're back on the boards for both average / best single. Looks like you got yourself a real shooter there.

Had a better result my second time out.

Shot with my AR15 w/ 16" 1/9 SS Barrel @ 100 yards with front bipod and rear bags.

Average was 0.904
Best Group was 0.528
Rifle Used: RRA upper, Loki Nickle Boron BCG,
JD lower, 3# Timney Trigger
Barrel is 16" RRA SS Match Heavy 1/9 twist with free float JD handguard
Optics Bushnell Elite 3.5-30X50 set at 21X
Mount is M & A 30 mm detachable

Shot with FGMM 69 gr. match ammo

1.162 + 0.528 + 0.539 + 0.676 + 1.397 + 1.122 = 5.424/6 = 0.904 average over 6 groupings of 5 shots each/30 total bullets.



Best Group



Rifle Used



I will try the 300 Yard Challenge next week.

 

[elfster1234]

BTW, I just realized this myself.... but we are under a "shooter's" 1moa @ 100yards across the board for both AVERAGE and BEST SINGLE (actual moa is 1.047 FYI, but for the purposes of this challenge & how some manufactures kinda guarantee to be under an inch @ 100yards, we are using SMOA "shooter's moa" or inches per hundred yards "IPHY" ). Nice work my friends.

I am NOT using "IPHY" on the 300yard challenge FYI.... as for the 300yard challenge (other than mention#2), I am using 3 minutes of arc.... so for the 300yard challenge, you can take your group size in inches, and divide by 3.141 for your MOA. The 300yard challenge is by no means "long distance shooting", BUT you need to take in some factors more than the 100yard challenge like mirage, wind, and so on... It is much more shooter dependent. I think this works out great for some people as not everyone has a 500 to 1000yard range available. Also, for the 300yard challenge, try to use your ballistic charts to get dead center bulls WHILE keeping your group sizes small (obviously making your adjustments between your groups)..... Although it is all based on group sizes, it does make it more fun to get dead center bulls on the 300yard challenge. Just another way to push yourself during these challenges.

 

[bluto51]

Elfster -

I had a lot of fun doing it. These 30 shot, 5 group strings are a lot harder then they look. Looking forward to
trying my RRA at 300 yards next week. With only four out of ten spots filled on that leader board I'm a
cinch! LOL

 

[elfster1234]

im glad you enjoy them.... they really do help with your "basic shooting fundamentals"......

by no means is the 300yard challenge considered "long distance shooting", but for some it is all they have available to them.... so try to your use ballistic charts to get dead center bulls, while trying your best to get stupid small groups during the 300yard challenge (just make your adjustments between your groups obviously).... mirage and wind (more shooter dependent) really starts to come into play on the 300yard in comparison to the 100yard obviously... just another way to push yourself and to have more fun with your semi-auto... maybe even use these challenges as a tool to moving on to longer range shooting... We are all learning as we go here.

Elfster -

I had a lot of fun doing it. These 30 shot, 5 group strings are a lot harder then they look. Looking forward to
trying my RRA at 300 yards next week. With only four out of ten spots filled on that leader board I'm a
cinch! LOL

 

[elfster1234]

Bluto51 and everyone else, I just added this to the 300yard shootout as it is really geared more towards the shooter than having a bad ass precision rifle... it always helps to have a bad ass SUB-MOA rifle tho! LOL!

FROM THE 300YARD THREAD: Just an FYI peps... I just added a BULLSEYE BONUS to this thread only... Just a little something to get you all on the right track towards long range shooting & a little more fun to this game especially for those that are limited to 300yards or less. I totally understand from PM's that not everyone has 500yard plus ranges in their local area.... This will produce a 4.5" (1.4327moa) circle bullseye @ 300yards. On a no wind day (which damn near never happens, but for pure example purposes),,,, this would be close to shooting 30rounds through a 1.5" circle at 100yards OR 30rounds at a 15" plate at 1000yards! I think this will make a challenging, but possible goal for most people with a precision type semi-auto. I came close to this on my last Rock River Arms entry listed above (4 out of 6 groups for sure, and one other group was really close also so damn near 5 out of 6), so if I can came close to doing this, then this should be really easy for most people and an additional goal to work towards other than just "shooting small ass groups"...

((((( 300 YARD !!! ))))) BULLSEYE BONUS!!! All 30rounds are no further than 2.25" from dead center of bullseye to dead center of bullet hole!!! This will produce a 4.5" (about ~ 1.4327moa) circle around dead center bullseye. If you think you made it this far, then please provide additional caliper pic of your single most furthest bullet hole from dead center bullseye (out of the 30 bullet holes, pick the bullet hole that is furthest from bullseye, and provide picture from dead center bulls to dead center bullet hole... easy as that!) This might sound easy if it was just a single 5shot group or with a bolt action, but times that by 6 total groups OR shooting ALL 30 bullets through a 4.5" (1.4327moa) circle @ 300yards with a semi-auto! Same as shooting 30rounds through a 1.5" circle at 100yards OR 30rounds on a 15" steel plate @ 1000yards (with no wind / mirage obviously, LOL)!!!! Mix in some wind and a little mirage at 300yards and it is rather hard, but obtainable!

Elfster -

I had a lot of fun doing it. These 30 shot, 5 group strings are a lot harder then they look. Looking forward to
trying my RRA at 300 yards next week. With only four out of ten spots filled on that leader board I'm a
cinch! LOL

 

[elfster1234]

bluto51 and everyone else, I also just added this to the 100yard thread... make note that if you do this option / goal you are most likely going to destroy your bug hole group point of aim for 100yards... nice option to have though if you want it:

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="color: #CC6600"> ROUND2((((( 100 YARD !!! ))))) BULLSEYE BONUS!!! All 30rounds are no further than .75" from dead center of bullseye to dead center of bullet hole!!! This will produce a 1.5" circle around dead center bullseye. If you think you made it this far, then please provide additional caliper pic of your single most furthest bullet hole from dead center bullseye (out of the 30 bullet holes, pick the bullet hole that is furthest from bullseye, and provide picture from dead center bulls to dead center bullet hole... easy as that!) This might sound easy if it was just a single 5shot group or with a bolt action, but times that by 6 total groups with a semi-auto! Rather hard, but obtainable! You can try going for this option if you want, but be forewarned,,,, you will most likely destroy your bug hole point of aim. Nice option to have tho! (STARTS TODAY 06/07/13, NOT FOR PAST ENTRIES!)</span></span></span>
- none so far! your name here!

Elfster -

I had a lot of fun doing it. These 30 shot, 5 group strings are a lot harder then they look. Looking forward to
trying my RRA at 300 yards next week. With only four out of ten spots filled on that leader board I'm a
cinch! LOL

 

[bluto51]

Good stuff Elfster. I agree that these/your challenges help develop fundamentals, mechanics, and consistency while still staying
recreational. It changes your mindset when you add repeatability to your goals. I used to be very happy to come away from a range session
with the two or three random tight groups. Now I'm looking at my shooting differently. Still recreational, but with a better appreciation of what
it takes to become a better shooter.

At 300 yards (the farthest distance at my range) wind does become a factor. I'm a dope at doping wind right now. A couple of weeks ago
I'd just finished shooting two consecutive solid groups at 300 yards with my GAP Crusader and was aiming at a paster about 3" from the left edge of my backer. The wind kicked up, as it often does where I shoot, and blew my third group all the way to the edge of the target. In windy conditions, your BULLSEYE BONUS may not be all that easy.

 

[USMAGator]

Damn, off the board....I won't be able to hit the range for a few weeks either, most likely. Elfster, I really like the Bullseye Bonus addition, that should be fun and may change the game a little bit. It'll be interesting to see how many folks can end up on both that board and the best average board for the same session. Thanks again for your work in keeping this updated, great thread!

 

[elfster1234]

not a problem at all my friend... im glad you enjoy the thread and it is really not that hard to run just as long as everyone follows the example entry (in which most people have as of late which is really good and makes my life really easy to run this board).. my computer is hooked up to all of my flat screen TV's in the house w/1080p resolution with blue tooth keyboards/mice & I have an ipad mini so I'm always switching back and forth between TV programing & surfing the net / checking sniper's hide. Electronics and building computers is my other fav past time / hobby or than rifles.

yes, the bullseye bonus should put an extra twist on the 100yards thread and especially on the 300yard thread... I think it will be really really hard to get the bullseye bonus with a semi-auto on both the 100 & 300 threads, but I purposefully set it up that way... it is not supposed to be easy, but obtainable. Other than the obvious wind and mirage variables that make 1000yard shooting so damn hard, getting the bullseye bonus on the 300yard thread will give someone with limited rifle range capacity of 300yard or less an idea how hard it would be to hit a 15" steel plate at 1000yards.... I don't think i'll go for the bullseye bonus much (might try it tho) on the 100yard as I like a nice point of aim that is not destroyed by bullet holes.... BUT, as for the 300yard I'm going for the bullseye bonus every single time as the group size spreads open enough not to destroy my point of aim (or atleast my goal is to destroy my point of aim at 300 yards, LOL!)..... I really like shooting for groups at 300yards as I don't need to walk all day long setting up targets, but it produces somewhat of a challenge of mirage and wind effect variables.... I have planned to hit the 600yard range this coming weekend if all things work out..... it should put a nice twist on things.... I actually came really really close on my last rock river arms entry on the 300yard thread... 4 out of 6, and damn near 5 out of 6groups (short on one bullet by .25") was in the bullseye bonus range (27 out of 30 rounds actually),,,, so if I can do it, then I know your regular joe can do it if they really put their mind / effort into it. When it boils down to it I know jack in comparison to guys like lowlight, but I consider myself your average "learn by recreational fun / trial & effort" joe type of guy.

i'm looking forward to your 2nd run! I know that obr rifle of yours is a tack driving beast!

Damn, off the board....I won't be able to hit the range for a few weeks either, most likely. Elfster, I really like the Bullseye Bonus addition, that should be fun and may change the game a little bit. It'll be interesting to see how many folks can end up on both that board and the best average board for the same session. Thanks again for your work in keeping this updated, great thread!

 

[elfster1234]

OK, first and foremost, this is not your typical entry as I just started my M.E.O.C.W. gauntlet test thread about 3days ago as on this link and I don't feel like typing all of this shit back out: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...t-semi-auto-precision-shooters-reloaders.html

Just an FYI everyone that would like to participate with these shootout threads while also perfecting your powder drop loads for reloaders, pay close attention to rule#16 (if you have not noticed yet) as this will save you ammo, targets, and time perfecting your powder drop loads while also producing two total shootout thread entries! I honestly believe I'm on the right track towards improving AR shooting skills and reloading practices.

Here is rule#16 as per the OP:
16.) Only M.E.O.C.W. gauntlet test targets are allowed to have more than 30bullet holes in order to save time, bullets, and targets for perfecting your powder drop loads while also producing two total entries for these shootout threads. Click on this link for more M.E.O.C.W. gauntlet test details: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...t-semi-auto-precision-shooters-reloaders.html

Still post M.E.O.C.W. gauntlet test targets like typical entry posts. The only reason why I'm copy / paste the following below as I don't feel like typing out all of this shit again. These type of targets are the ONLY targets allowed to have more than 30bullet holes:


************************************************************

Ok, before I say anything I have a couple things to say about this M.E.O.C.W. gauntlet test of mine. This is big time stuff here people.

First, I took my 9"-13" harris bipod off, and put on my 6"-9" harris bipod for this test. Lets just say the 6"-9" bipod is not coming off.

I usually set my 168 amax bullets to OGIVE seating depth of 2.198 or .020" off the lands / max OGIVE............ and I figured I'd switch it up a bit and increase my jump an extra .005" (.025" off the lands) and set my OGIVE seating depth to 2.193. I'm not sure if setting my OGIVE deeper by only .005" (.025" total jump) made that big of a f#cking difference, OR if magazine loading and shooting by round robin made that big of a difference, OR if someone spiked my coffee with morning with "ass kicking sniper formula 5000", BUT I shot 11 out of 12 f#cking groups sub-moa at 100yards!!! HOLY SHIT! This is hands down the most consistent grouping I've EVER done with my LMT hands down!! EVER! as in EVER EVER!

Next, live and learn..... I should've started out this M.E.O.C.W. gauntlet test damn near at bullseye or shooting below bullseye because obviously as you jump up in powder charge the group location increases in height BIG TIME (so learn from my mistakes) !!!!.... I was even compensating between 15round magazine loads by clicking down the elevation a bit BUT it still wasn't enough...... SO, if you do run this test don't make the same mistake as me and start at either dead center bulleseye or just below bullseye on the first round robin magazine load#1. Now it is time for me to pull my head out of my a$$! Will not happen again.

I think this M.E.O.C.W. gauntlet test was massively successful and as you can see with my damn near all sub-moa results (best shooting I've EVER done with my LMT hands down) the round robin magazine feeding / round robin shooting really made a difference with my groups sizes along with my deeper OGIVE seating depth & using the lower 6"-9" harris bipod.... This is the FIRST TIME I have EVER made "sub-moa all day long" with my LMT... HELL YEAH!!

Also, I'm a HUGE fan of now using .75" pink bullseye circles for shooting at 100yards. As in the movie the "patriot", I think there is a LOT of truth to "aim small, miss small".

I allowed about 7minutes between magazine runs and about 7 to 10 seconds between shots. It looks like I might be on to something around 42.2gr varget. I'm going to re-run this test in the future just to make sure, but I was getting really really consistent grouping on varget charges 40.8, 41.0, and 41.2. I would like to come out with this M.E.O.C.W gauntlet test with two total "PET LOAD NODES". One for shooting at 100yards and another for shooting at 300yards plus. I like having a lower NODE for shooting at 100yards as it is easy on my brass, easy on my rifle, and saves me powder. Also another higher NODE for 300yard plus shooting and hunting.... I already know my LMT kicks ass with 40.5varget with 168amax bullets for 100yard shooting so I'll need to check these lower end charges weights.

Picture is worth a thousand words! I'm sooooo f#cking pumped right now. I can't wait to do this with my rock river arms EOP bull barrel varmint 5.56!!


target entry#1:
40.8 varget = .678" group size
41.0 varget = .676" group size
41.2 varget = .632" group size (BEST GROUP TARGET ENTRY#1)
41.4 varget = .834" group size
41.6 varget = .836" group size
41.8 varget = .963" group size
group size average on target entry#1= .7698"

target entry#2:
42.0 varget = .954" group size
42.2 varget = .592" group size (BEST GROUP TARGET ENTRY#2)
42.4 varget = 1.075" group size
42.6 varget = .831" group size
42.8 varget = .866" group size
43.0 varget = .816" group size
group size average on target entry#2= .8557"


picture of entire M.E.O.C.W. gauntlet test target

41.2 varget = .632" group size (BEST GROUP TARGET ENTRY#1)

42.2 varget = .592" group size (BEST GROUP TARGET ENTRY#2)

My LMT MWS:

 

[seanhagerty]

Wow. Nice shooting elfster. Thats a huge amount of effort to put together that many loads and shoot them round robin. Its a goood feeling to put all together and see the tiny groups.

 

[elfster1234]

FINALLY, since the day I purchased my f#cking LMT I've made the "shoots sub-moa all day long" board!!! FINALLY! MY GOD.... I'm taking a nap... LOL

 

[elfster1234]

dude, the amount of concentration and stamina to shoot that many rounds / 12 total groups damn near all sub-moa was crazy... hence the name I gave the test = M.E.O.C.W. gauntlet test.... put massive stress on the gauntlet part... it is such kick ass information for my LMT while being massively rewarding to finally shoot "sub-moa all day long" with my LMT on 6 total groups in a row... I was floored when I took the last shot on the 2nd magazine load of the M.E.O.C.W. gauntlet test.. I have never once done that with my LMT.

Wow. Nice shooting elfster. Thats a huge amount of effort to put together that many loads and shoot them round robin. Its a goood feeling to put all together and see the tiny groups.

 

[seanhagerty]

Well, congrats again.

 

[elfster1234]

BTW everyone & BM11 might be interested in this,,,,, this is the 2nd time (between the round#1 and round#2 100yard threads) between all of the 7.62 boys & the insane amount of shots / groups we have made that a 7.62x51 actually made the "shoots sub-moa all day long" board, so there is still hope for us 7.62x51 AR boys as this is crazy f#cking hard....

First person to do it with a 7.62x51 was Nakas and his 20" OBR 7.62 on the round#1 100yard thread, and now me 20" LMT MWS CL barrel on round#2. Wow, not easy at all !!!!

 

[bluto51]

Outstanding shooting Elfster! You were really in a groove. 12 groups with 11 sub MOA is impressive,
but the effort and concentration it must have taken is even more so.
Your LMT seems to do well across a pretty broad range of loads.

 

[Shoottothrill]

Elfster your enthusiasm for this sport is awesome and inspiring. I'm excited for you great job. That LMT is a tack-driver with you behind it. I just got my Gap-10 .308 completed and mounted my scope tonight. First scope I ever mounted by myself. As soon as I get some time behind it I will post up my six five shot groups. I live in Arizona so it's hotter than hell here right now, but I've been wanting to try and make it on your board for a long time. Thanks again for the contest and all the work you put into it, and for keeping me excited about the sport. Great Job.

 

[elfster1234]

tell me about it!! I was floored with the results! thanks bro! best I've ever done with my LMT, EVER..... still pumped about it.

I think it was a combination of the following:

1.) lower bipod.... took off the 9-13" and put on the 6-9" harris... it is NOT coming off.... LOL

2.) bumped back the OGIVE seating depth of the AMAX bullets another .005" for a total .025" jump, rather than .020" jump

3.) loaded magazine and took shots round robin style to help reduce any wind variables, and loaded 15 total shots per 3 total groups to help reduce the "one-round-flier" phenom

4.) and finally the "ass kicking sniper 5000" I spiked my coffee with this morning... LOL!... sheesssh! I was on f#cking fire.... even with the 300yard thread. 15 out of 18 groups / 85 out of 90 shots sub-moa!! not to darn bad I must say.

Outstanding shooting Elfster! You were really in a groove. 12 groups with 11 sub MOA is impressive,
but the effort and concentration it must have taken is even more so.
Your LMT seems to do well across a pretty broad range of loads.

 

[elfster1234]

dude, that sounds awesome and you're going to love the GAP..... you can never go wrong with a GAP and that is for damn sure! if it is hot as a S.O.B in your area you might want to get up early / shoot later in the day to help beat the mirage... even at 100yards, and especially at 300yards that mirage can be a bitch! I've also come to the conclusion, as for the 100yard thread only, that .75" round targets are the ticket for small ass groups with a 16x plus scope.... AND if you going for a "small ass group AR" platform it really helps to have a 16x plus scope... Aim small, miss small baby.

Elfster your enthusiasm for this sport is awesome and inspiring. I'm excited for you great job. That LMT is a tack-driver with you behind it. I just got my Gap-10 .308 completed and mounted my scope tonight. First scope I ever mounted by myself. As soon as I get some time behind it I will post up my six five shot groups. I live in Arizona so it's hotter than hell here right now, but I've been wanting to try and make it on your board for a long time. Thanks again for the contest and all the work you put into it, and for keeping me excited about the sport. Great Job.

 

[123Nick]

FINALLY, since the day I purchased my f#cking LMT I've made the "shoots sub-moa all day long" board!!! FINALLY! MY GOD.... I'm taking a nap... LOL

Congrats Elf! Impressive. Is that 4-16 Vortex on your LMT? Do you feel like a better glass would get those groups even closer?

 

[elfster1234]

Thanks! No, i do not think a more expensive scope would make a difference... I have full faith in the 4-16x vortex pst ffp

Congrats Elf! Impressive. Is that 4-16 Vortex on your LMT? Do you feel like a better glass would get those groups even closer?

 

[308Shooter1911]

I had an entry prepared. But the HIV crackhead decided to bleed all over my targets. My fault for forgetting them in the back seat of my unit, SMH...Try again this week....

 

[seanhagerty]

Good shooting to all!

 

[elfster1234]

If I had a $1 for every time a HIV crackhead decided to bleed all over my targets..... I tell ya!

LOL, you should still post the blood covered target. Now that would be a first!

I had an entry prepared. But the HIV crackhead decided to bleed all over my targets. My fault for forgetting them in the back seat of my unit, SMH...Try again this week....

 

[USMAGator]

Made it to the range today with my father, and his new AR that I recently built. We put about 50 rounds through it before today, mainly to function test it and make sure everything was good to go. He picked up the optic a few days ago, a Leupold Mark AR 6-18X40, Mil-dot with Mil turrets. We sighted in today at 25, then moved to 100 and shot 3 of these 6x5 targets over about 2 hours. On each target, he shot the right hand groups and I shot the ones on the left. My dumb ass left the good reloads I wanted to try at the house (53gr SMKs with 26.0gr Varget), along with the sandbags, but we had a few different types of ammo to try thanks to him being prepared.

Obviously none of these targets are even close to making the leader board, but I wanted to post them up anyways just to show what results we were getting with various ammo. We were mainly just glad to make it out to the range, and had a great time together sending lead down-range!

All groups were shot from the bipod, no rear bag.

1.984 + 0.896 + 1.743 + 2.144 + 2.022 + 1.061 = 9.850/6 = 1.642" AVG


1.942 + 1.489 + 1.179 + 1.698 + 1.480 + 1.487 = 9.275/6 = 1.546" AVG


1.542 + 1.331 + 1.180 + 0.702 + 1.794 + 1.487 = 8.036/6 = 1.339" AVG


This rifle is my first build from the bottom up, so it's exciting to see it all come together from parts to groups on paper!
Seekins Lower
PSA LPK
Geissele G2S Trigger
Magpul UBR
Aero Precision Upper
SMI BCG
Samson Evo 12.3" Free Float tube
Rainier UltraMatch 18" bbl
Rainier Mini Comp
Harris Bipod w/ Larue QD
Troy BUIS

Optic is Leupold Mark AR 6-18x40, mounted in LT-104

 

[elfster1234]

DUDE! that is awesome! thanks so much for posting this information. Now that is one bad ass rifle and nice shooting especially without a rear sand bag my friend. The rifle looks like it is on the right track. Very nice. Nothing like spending quality time with your father.

It is really refreshing to see someone post their results even if they don't make the boards. It really is all good information that other people can learn from.

Thanks once again.

Made it to the range today with my father, and his new AR that I recently built. We put about 50 rounds through it before today, mainly to function test it and make sure everything was good to go. He picked up the optic a few days ago, a Leupold Mark AR 6-18X40, Mil-dot with Mil turrets. We sighted in today at 25, then moved to 100 and shot 3 of these 6x5 targets over about 2 hours. On each target, he shot the right hand groups and I shot the ones on the left. My dumb ass left the good reloads I wanted to try at the house (53gr SMKs with 26.0gr Varget), along with the sandbags, but we had a few different types of ammo to try thanks to him being prepared.

Obviously none of these targets are even close to making the leader board, but I wanted to post them up anyways just to show what results we were getting with various ammo. We were mainly just glad to make it out to the range, and had a great time together sending lead down-range!

All groups were shot from the bipod, no rear bag.

1.984 + 0.896 + 1.743 + 2.144 + 2.022 + 1.061 = 9.850/6 = 1.642" AVG


1.942 + 1.489 + 1.179 + 1.698 + 1.480 + 1.487 = 9.275/6 = 1.546" AVG


1.542 + 1.331 + 1.180 + 0.702 + 1.794 + 1.487 = 8.036/6 = 1.339" AVG


This rifle is my first build from the bottom up, so it's exciting to see it all come together from parts to groups on paper!
Seekins Lower
PSA LPK
Geissele G2S Trigger
Magpul UBR
Aero Precision Upper
SMI BCG
Samson Evo 12.3" Free Float tube
Rainier UltraMatch 18" bbl
Rainier Mini Comp
Harris Bipod w/ Larue QD
Troy BUIS

Optic is Leupold Mark AR 6-18x40, mounted in LT-104

 

[USMAGator]

DUDE! that is awesome! thanks so much for posting this information. Now that is one bad ass rifle and nice shooting especially without a rear sand bag my friend. The rifle looks like it is on the right track. Very nice. Nothing like spending quality time with your father.

It is really refreshing to see someone post their results even if they don't make the boards. It really is all good information that other people can learn from.

Thanks once again.

It looks like with some load development and a little more time breaking in the barrel, this rifle definitely has potential to be a solid shooter. If we're still getting 1.5" average with good ammo and a few hundred more rounds down range then I'll be a little worried, but with only about 150 rounds down the tube so far and definitely using sub-par ammo (except the Hornady) I'm happy with the performance! And yes, a rear bag helps a ton. I'll remember to bring it next time!

 

[elfster1234]

yes, very hard to get bug hole groups without a rear sandbag for damn sure. I've always found that it takes a good solid 300rounds to get nice groups. My LMT when I first got it was averaging about 1 to 1.5moa... it wasn't until about 300 to 500 rounds down the tube that it really started to shine with some good load development. It is almost like you understand & grow with the rifle after a period of time shooting / reloading for it... understanding what it likes and does not like just takes time.

It looks like with some load development and a little more time breaking in the barrel, this rifle definitely has potential to be a solid shooter. If we're still getting 1.5" average with good ammo and a few hundred more rounds down range then I'll be a little worried, but with only about 150 rounds down the tube so far and definitely using sub-par ammo (except the Hornady) I'm happy with the performance! And yes, a rear bag helps a ton. I'll remember to bring it next time!

 

[seanhagerty]

Very nice. Impressive display of skills there. I am looking forward to your future target posts.

How do you like the Leupold?

 

[USMAGator]

Very nice. Impressive display of skills there. I am looking forward to your future target posts.

How do you like the Leupold?

Thank you! We both shoot recreationally and have only recently started trying to shoot little groups, so it's been a fun (and frustrating) learning process!

I have relatively little exposure to various optics, the only "high end" one that I've used is a NF 5.5-22x56, so don't put much stock into my ability to compare this to other optics in the same price range. My father was looking for something a little less spendy than a NF for this, so we were looking at the Nikon M-223 and Monarch optics, a few Vortex Viper offerings, the Bushnell Elite 6500s, and the Leupolds at a local store. The Mark AR was discernibly brighter and clearer for both me and my father when viewed side by side with the other optics we were looking at. The mil-dot reticle is fine enough in the middle for target shooting, and matching Mil turrets are a nice touch from Leupold. The turrets click audibly and without that "mushy" feeling that some give, my only complaint is that the clicks seem very close together (if that makes sense), but the turrets are well marked so I don't think there's much risk of losing track of where you are. Have not had a chance to test the "BDC" marked on the elevation turret yet, so I can't comment on that. The front parallax adjustment is nowhere near as convenient as side adjustment, but it works well and the range markings on it seem to work out properly based on limited use so far. Rear focus helps to get individualized clarity, and locks nicely and firmly with the locking ring.

This rifle and optic will probably never be used to shoot competitively, and will see range use from 100-200 yards for the most part, farther if we ever get a longer range range around here. I have not had a chance to box test it yet, but in zeroing the optic the reticle and turrets matched precisely and made zeroing a breeze. There's no zero stop, which for our use isn't a problem, YMMV. The turrets do not lock, but require a firm enough twist that I think it'll remain zeroed in the bag for transport. They do allow you to zero the optic and then re-center your turrets using an included allen wrench. For $550, it seems like a pretty sweet little optic. Nice and clear, it's just what my dad was after in hunting down an optic for range use. If there's anything specific about it that I can answer for you, just let me know and I'll do what I can!

 

[R6Hybridd]

I subscribed to this thread and I keep reading it. Guess its time I grab the GAP and send 30 rounds down range.