Ruger SFAR small frame 308, 6.8 pounds

[doubloon]

My son reminded me of an adage that is very apt to this thread

FWIW, I came here looking for solutions to the problems I'm experiencing which are similar to the problems other people in this thread have experienced.

If you go back and read all the posts you'll find real data and some people who have solved all (most) of their issues with the platform and shared their solutions for others to try.

Sure, I've bitched about a couple things in the design but I'm trying to get it working and if/when it does I'll probably still bitch about a couple issues with the design.

But some people don't own one and haven't tried one and just want to crap in other people's threads with bias and assumptions to make themselves feel better.

 

[sparky702]

Don't sweat it . If a person Ain't feeding you ,fucking you and paying your bill's then then their opinion don't matter

 

[Bendigo78]

Pulled mine outta the safe tonight and everytime I'm amazed at how good it feels. Picked up some mlok to arca rail adapters to try it on the new tripod setup. Picked up a Primos Apex trigger carbon tripod and put a $36 ball head on it. All in under $250 for everything.

 

[doubloon]

Primos Apex trigger carbon tripod

Used?

yeah, the feel is why I keep working on it, if it was even a pound heavier I'd have sold it already.

 

[Bendigo78]

Used?

yeah, the feel is why I keep working on it, if it was even a pound heavier I'd have sold it already.

$180 demo from the bushnell outlet store. Took the clamp off and installed the arca rail that came with the ball head on that so it clamps in if needed for a rifle without the adapter. Allows the tripod to still fit in the bag.

Holds a 16# dpms sass solid.

 

[Bendigo78]

Loaded up some 155grn FTX bullets to play with last weekend. Shot well but think I'm now getting excess gas as the bolt was over running the next mag. Funny thing was that it wasn't scratching or denting the cases. Almost polite about it.

 

[Southernspeed]

Loaded up some 155grn FTX bullets to play with last weekend. Shot well but think I'm now getting excess gas as the bolt was over running the next mag. Funny thing was that it wasn't scratching or denting the cases. Almost polite about it.

It’s kind of odd that mine is shooting/ functioning well now but the gas must be off judging by the wear at the front of the election port!

 

[Gtscotty]

It’s kind of odd that mine is shooting/ functioning well now but the gas must be off judging by the wear at the front of the election port!View attachment 8332008

I think I'd call Ruger up about that, definitely not normal and probably won't stop. I had similar strange wear on the ejection port of my PC Carbine when new. Sent it back and it hasn't occurred since the repair.

 

[doubloon]

I did a quick google when I read the post earlier. There are some other places people have complained about similar damage but I didn't chase it down far enough to see if anyone root caused it or fixed it.

 

[Southernspeed]

I think I'd call Ruger up about that, definitely not normal and probably won't stop. I had similar strange wear on the ejection port of my PC Carbine when new. Sent it back and it hasn't occurred since the repair.

But I wonder if the mods I’ve done ( buffer and spring) to save my brass has made it do this? Guess I’d have to return it to stock and test it before contacting Ruger.
It’s almost as if the ejectors aren’t doing their job properly.

 

[Bendigo78]

It’s kind of odd that mine is shooting/ functioning well now but the gas must be off judging by the wear at the front of the election port!View attachment 8332008

I think my problem is with the heavier bullets I've got just a touch more gas than I had it tuned for. That receiver damage looks like the brass isn't getting all the way out of the chamber and the bolt is driving the case mouth into the edge of the receiver as its closing. Recommend black sharpie and a touch more gas. Maybe a bit of a polish on the extractor. Then continue testing. Definately remove and inspect the extractor. Maybe has brass or gunk limiting movement.

 

[Southernspeed]

I think my problem is with the heavier bullets I've got just a touch more gas than I had it tuned for. That receiver damage looks like the brass isn't getting all the way out of the chamber and the bolt is driving the case mouth into the edge of the receiver as its closing. Recommend black sharpie and a touch more gas. Maybe a bit of a polish on the extractor. Then continue testing. Definately remove and inspect the extractor. Maybe has brass or gunk limiting movement.

Yeah that’s exactly what it is but not sure why. It cycles fine and always lock the bolt back on empty so not sure it’s a gas problem
I’ve just dropped a line to Ruger so I’ll see what they say. Not looking forward to putting it back to stock

 

[AXMC]

Yeah that’s exactly what it is but not sure why. It cycles fine and always lock the bolt back on empty so not sure it’s a gas problem
I’ve just dropped a line to Ruger so I’ll see what they say. Not looking forward to putting it back to stock

What's your ejection pattern look like?
Are you sure it not just that you're super over gassed (not surprising with the port size!) And your brass is being thrown forward and occasionally hitting the side of the opening on it's way out?

 

[doubloon]

It’s almost as if the ejectors aren’t doing their job properly.

Last time I stripped mine down I disassembled the ejectors because one of them seemed stiff. As big as the opening is for the ejectors one spring seemed like a tight fit. I ended up rolling up a piece of sandpaper to sand the hole. The spring fits better now.

As big as the openings are around the ejectors there may be some debris in there.

 

[Southernspeed]

What's your ejection pattern look like?
Are you sure it not just that you're super over gassed (not surprising with the port size!) And your brass is being thrown forward and occasionally hitting the side of the opening on it's way out?

It was ejecting around 3 o’clock but I use a brass catcher so don’t see them now. Nothing has been altered since then but they’re definitely getting rammed into the receiver.

 

[MinistryOfTruth]

Picked up my 6.5 cm today.

Rifle gas.

Gas block was visually identical to .308.

Looks like an a5 receiver extension?

Teslong showed a good barrel - nice chamber job and totally straight. Good gas hole, clean rifling.

 

[AXMC]

Picked up my 6.5 cm today.

Rifle gas.

Gas block was visually identical to .308.

Looks like an a5 receiver extension?

Teslong showed a good barrel - nice chamber job and totally straight. Good gas hole, clean rifling.

Were you able to estimate gas port size?
Thanks

 

[MinistryOfTruth]

Not yet. I’ll have the whole shinola apart soon to put on a Geißele mk18 rail. Gonna shim the barrel at that time.

weighs 10lbs with optic and suppressor ready to rock. not bad.

I will say it’s rough in operation. Running the charging handle is brutal - a sign of low quality factory finishes during machine operations.

Ruger is known for allowing their customers to test the necessarily minimum surface roughnesses in their weapons lol.

I wonder what the receiver extension is - looks like an A5 with an AR15 carbine buffer to get the operating length needed.

 

[AXMC]

Not yet. I’ll have the whole shinola apart soon to put on a Geißele mk18 rail. Gonna shim the barrel at that time.

weighs 10lbs with optic and suppressor ready to rock. not bad.

I will say it’s rough in operation. Running the charging handle is brutal - a sign of low quality factory finishes during machine operations.

Ruger is known for allowing their customers to test the necessarily minimum surface roughnesses in their weapons lol.

I wonder what the receiver extension is - looks like an A5 with an AR15 carbine buffer to get the operating length needed.

It's close to an A5, but just slightly shorter...maybe 1/8 " ?

 

[Southernspeed]

Not yet. I’ll have the whole shinola apart soon to put on a Geißele mk18 rail. Gonna shim the barrel at that time.

weighs 10lbs with optic and suppressor ready to rock. not bad.

I will say it’s rough in operation. Running the charging handle is brutal - a sign of low quality factory finishes during machine operations.

Ruger is known for allowing their customers to test the necessarily minimum surface roughnesses in their weapons lol.

I wonder what the receiver extension is - looks like an A5 with an AR15 carbine buffer to get the operating length needed.

With the SFAR history, I’d put a couple of hundred rounds through it before doing any mods just in case it’s going back!
Let us know how it shoots and what your brass is like!

 

[MinistryOfTruth]

With the SFAR history, I’d put a couple of hundred rounds through it before doing any mods just in case it’s going back!
Let us know how it shoots and what your brass is like!

Yeah - I’m wondering if I’m the first person to actually shoot a 6.5 sfar. There is nothing out there and apparently I got one of the first of them made according to the distributor.

 

[doubloon]

Not yet. ... sign of low quality factory finishes

If you snapped a picture of the port with the Teslong we can guesstimate it based on it's size/position between the lands.

But since you're breaking it down a quick caliper will tell the truth.

On my 308/20" the machining tolerances were pretty tight but the edges on almost everything were sharp, almost burred. I'm assuming pretty much machined then jammed together.

Good luck.

 

[MinistryOfTruth]

About to smash.

Definitely still full gas block contact lol.

 

[doubloon]

Definitely still full gas block contact lol.

I assume the handguard has those same stupid spurs/fangs sticking in from the top rail?

But that looks like it might be contacting somewhere else.

 

[Southernspeed]

About to smash.

View attachment 8334080

Definitely still full gas block contact lol.


View attachment 8334082

Did you paint your scope? Looks good.

 

[MinistryOfTruth]

Yeah. Sponge paint.


So:

1. Mine recoils harder than any 6.5 cm I have shot. Including the Q fix and sig cross that are in this weight range.

2. Smallest group was 3/4” at the end of a 40 round initial break in. Most groups 1.5” to 2”.

3. Velocity:

So Ok with 147s.

4. The gas block was in contact so hard with the rail that when I changed it to a SA blow off job, it changed the zero by 5 mils. 50 clicks.

5. There was no acceptable suppressed setting on the factory GB. The SA was run in restriction mode.

6. Brass with the SA:

Nearly completely destroyed with factory GB.

 

[Southernspeed]

Yeah. Sponge paint.


So:

1. Mine recoils harder than any 6.5 cm I have shot. Including the Q fix and sig cross that are in this weight range.

2. Smallest group was 3/4” at the end of a 40 round initial break in. Most groups 1.5” to 2”.

3. Velocity:
View attachment 8334356

So Ok with 147s.

4. The gas block was in contact so hard with the rail that when I changed it to a SA blow off job, it changed the zero by 5 mils. 50 clicks.

5. There was no acceptable suppressed setting on the factory GB. The SA was run in restriction mode.

6. Brass with the SA:

View attachment 8334357View attachment 8334358

Nearly completely destroyed with factory GB.

So at the moment it looks like the .308 situation but in 6.5. I hope it settles down and shapes up for you. Was that at 100yds?

 

[doubloon]

Nearly completely destroyed with factory GB.

That would be the good looking brass from my SFAR (308/20" for posterity).

I may need to look harder for a handguard with better clearance. This is the only sporter/thin barrel rifle I own, not used to these kind of shenanigans.

 

[AXMC]

That would be the good looking brass from my SFAR (308/20" for posterity).

I may need to look harder for a handguard with better clearance. This is the only sporter/thin barrel rifle I own, not used to these kind of shenanigans.

If you haven't already, change your gas block. It solves the contact issue and gives you a whole lot more options for tuning. In my opinion the GB is the single biggest design error Ruger made with the SFAR.

 

[doubloon]

If you haven't already, change your gas block. It solves the contact issue and gives you a whole lot more options for tuning.

I have changed the gas block. Swapped it out for a superlative (clamp on). Because of the way it fits, the superlative gives about 20% built in restriction over the factory block because the holes don't quite line up like they do with the proprietary block. The inlet in the Ruger gas block is not in a "standard" location so neither is the port in the barrel.

It tamed things down quite a bit, or the rifle "got broke in", because the brass looks better now.

But last time I took it out to 200 yards with the suppressor on it was shooting minute of Tuff Shed ... literally.

I got fed up and left but I'll go back again and shoot a couple boxes unsuppressed before putting the suppressor back on.

I *think* the block (clamp on type) may have been contacting the bottom of the guard on the SFAR. The set screw version has more clearance so I swapped it with the one on my AR-15 ... so now I have two rifles that couldn't hit water if you threw them out of a boat.

It'll be a full range day complete with tools on the next outing.

 

[AXMC]

I have changed the gas block. Swapped it out for a superlative (clamp on). Because of the way it fits, the superlative gives about 20% built in restriction over the factory block because the holes don't quite line up like they do with the proprietary block. The inlet in the Ruger gas block is not in a "standard" location so neither is the port in the barrel.

It tamed things down quite a bit, or the rifle "got broke in", because the brass looks better now.

But last time I took it out to 200 yards with the suppressor on it was shooting minute of Tuff Shed ... literally.

I got fed up and left but I'll go back again and shoot a couple boxes unsuppressed before putting the suppressor back on.

I *think* the block (clamp on type) may have been contacting the bottom of the guard on the SFAR. The set screw version has more clearance so I swapped it with the one on my AR-15 ... so now I have two rifles that couldn't hit water if you threw them out of a boat.

It'll be a full range day complete with tools on the next outing.

Did you install it with the recommended .025" in between the shoulder and the block or right up against the shoulder?
Thanks

 

[doubloon]

Did you install it with the recommended .025" in between the shoulder and the block or right up against the shoulder?
Thanks

Right up against the shoulder.

All the links below preview like their the same link but they are not, they go to different posts. Just something about the way the preview on snipershide works.

You mean the BOAGBM™ (the Bendigo Offset Adjustable Gas Block Method) quarter gap?

Ruger SFAR small frame 308, 6.8 pounds

Most of the discussion in this thread is not about "failures". My SFAR, for one, has never missed a beat feeding and ejecting everything I've fed it. My complaint is the brass gets torn up even with range fodder and with commercial off the shelf power hunting rounds primers get popped and...

www.snipershide.com

Which would actually be ~0.068".

Ruger SFAR small frame 308, 6.8 pounds

An odd thing is I felt the new tube was a tad longer Did you just use a regular mid length tube? EDITED TO CORRECT: no tube came *with* my block, I ordered it separately, apologies to anyone who was misled by the original post I replaced the factory block with a SA block and thought about...

www.snipershide.com

It wasn't really necessary to get the same effect as far as gas regulation goes. Bendigo did it originally to correct gas tube placement inside the receiver. My gas tube placement inside the receiver is fine with the flush mounted block.

I posted some pictures of it earlier in this thread. Bendigo's quarter gap results in approximately the same port obstruction as a flush mounted block ... borescope pictures in the following post.

Ruger SFAR small frame 308, 6.8 pounds

Ah, so you had ~.004"+/- of play originally. Seems like the machining is at least consistent. This makes me optimistic. Yep. This is the first time I used more than 1 full (360) wrap of .001" on an Ar. I didn't even have .002" shim stock before the sfar.

www.snipershide.com

 

[MinistryOfTruth]

Mine is right up against the shoulder.

Also, I’ll mention that the gun ran well. Recoil was stout and much worse than a Q fix - even with the gas system off effectively so it’s not a bolt running issue or a weight issue.

My gun may need the headspace checked.

 

[sparky702]

I do not understand why ruger don't address the hand guard issue . Surely they can find a hand guard that won't interfere with the gas block . if they had to charge an extra 100-150 for a decent hand guard that actually worked I doubt it would bother the people buying them to get a functioning rifle . I got lucky and it took very little work to make mine work but I see so many others having these problems and why on earth did they go right back to using the same hand guard on the 6.5 creedmoor if it is a known issue . I hope everybody get's their rifle's sorted out .

 

[mtrmn]

Mine is right up against the shoulder.

Also, I’ll mention that the gun ran well. Recoil was stout and much worse than a Q fix - even with the gas system off effectively so it’s not a bolt running issue or a weight issue.

My gun may need the headspace checked.

When you turn the gas off or the gun malfunctions enough to not cycle properly, it basically turns into a single shot with a very poorly designed stock which doesn't handle recoil well. At least that's the way my 308 AR works.

 

[MinistryOfTruth]

I have a magpul stock on there instead of the factory one. An ACS.

Was able to A-B test my rifle against others for recoil impulse - it was very similar to a .300PRC Christensen MPR.

 

[doubloon]

I do not understand why ruger don't address

JMO

1. Because they set out to achieve a goal and they did it.
But the goal was smallest and lightest not smallest and lightest and excellent quality.
They compromised some design choices to get small and light then skimped on machining to make it affordable.
It's probably no coincidence the gas port is exactly the same size as the hole for the barrel index pin ... no tool change, saves a nickel.

2. Likely because most of the people who bought one are just happy if it goes bang at the range and is minute of infidel at 100 yards ... "combat standard" I've heard someone call it before. Probably shoots maybe one box per trip once every couple months.

My predicament is my own fault. My normal rule is wait until the new gun is in such high demand it's impossible to find but this time I got sucked in by the hype from people whose reputation I trusted.

 

[sparky702]

JMO

1. Because they set out to achieve a goal and they did it.
But the goal was smallest and lightest not smallest and lightest and excellent quality.
They compromised some design choices to get small and light then skimped on machining to make it affordable.
It's probably no coincidence the gas port is exactly the same size as the hole for the barrel index pin ... no tool change, saves a nickel.

2. Likely because most of the people who bought one are just happy if it goes bang at the range and is minute of infidel at 100 yards ... "combat standard" I've heard someone call it before. Probably shoots maybe one box per trip once every couple months.

My predicament is my own fault. My normal rule is wait until the new gun is in such high demand it's impossible to find but this time I got sucked in by the hype from people whose reputation I trusted.

I suppose you're probably right . I just don't understand their business model . Me myself I always tried to be the best at my job . My motto was alway's do it right the first time and come in under budget and ahead of schedule . That's how you get repeat customer's .

 

[doubloon]

I just don't understand their business model

I *think* they produce some good stuff, people are always talking about them but mostly when I hear Ruger in a sentence the next words are either Blackhawk or 10/22 although the Predator got some hype recently.

Seems like the 10/22 is by far their crowning achievement so ... maybe that should have been a sign.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

2. Likely because most of the people who bought one are just happy if it goes bang at the range and is minute of infidel at 100 yards ... "combat standard" I've heard someone call it before. Probably shoots maybe one box per trip once every couple months.

You really believe that? If so, I'd suggest you leave your sounding room & get out more.

 

[MinistryOfTruth]

You really believe that? If so, I'd suggest you leave your sounding room & get out more.

I. Umm. Ruger. It’s a ruger. Ruger.

The leading research and development effort at Ruger is to make their guns more resistant to cow shit, tobacco spit, and rampaging autistic adults with hand tools.

 

[doubloon]

The leading research and development effort at Ruger

They've come a long way from the Little Copied Pistol.

They are now capable of making firearms with virtually no compatible parts for anything else in the industry, not even gas blocks.

 

[MinistryOfTruth]

So:
Ruger SFAR 6.5 CM- $900
-gas block/gas tube due to design fuckery.
-charging handle - single latch POS
-forward rail - junk
-trigger - this is OK. You could keep it maybe.
-buttstock - if you get the magpul PRS lite its fine. Otherwise its a tosser.
-grip - could be kept if you like this one.
-trigger guard - designed by a fag. it literally swishes
-muzzle brake - could be kept for those that don't have a can. aka nobody.
-buffer system - its like digging in a bucket of rocks using a butterknife.

Left? Barrel, Bolt, upper/lower, LPK, buffer tube (might change still), magazine

$900.

Let's take KAK parts and do an example build, since quality will be similar.

Upper lower - $250
LPK - $40
Bolt - $229
Barrel - $185
Mag- $20
$724.

There are $724 worth of usable parts in the SFAR. And the jury is still out on the barrel. And perhaps the most frustrating thing is that every part that needs a tossing is $.50 of machining away from being great. Like a gas block that doesn't smash into the rail constantly.

 

[MadDuner]

So:
Ruger SFAR 6.5 CM- $900
-gas block/gas tube due to design fuckery.
-charging handle - single latch POS
-forward rail - junk
-trigger - this is OK. You could keep it maybe.
-buttstock - if you get the magpul PRS lite its fine. Otherwise its a tosser.
-grip - could be kept if you like this one.
-trigger guard - designed by a fag.
-muzzle brake - could be kept for those that don't have a can. aka nobody.
-buffer system - its like digging in a bucket of rocks using a butterknife.

Left? Barrel, Bolt, upper/lower, LPK, buffer tube (might change still), magazine

$900.

Let's take KAK parts and do an example build, since quality will be similar.

Upper lower - $250
LPK - $40
Bolt - $229
Barrel - $185
Mag- $20
$724.

There are $724 worth of usable parts in the SFAR. And the jury is still out on the barrel. And perhaps the most frustrating thing is that every part that needs a tossing is $.50 of machining away from being great. Like a gas block that doesn't smash into the rail constantly.

So tell us why you would want one?
What is the draw to a device you don't like?

 

[MinistryOfTruth]

So tell us why you would want one?
What is the draw to a device you don't like?

I mess with things. Because I'm bored. And so this is the next thing to mess with.

It is a pile of white-hot radioactive space trash out of the box for sure. I just don't want to mince words. In fact, if there is a worse large caliber AR made right now it might be hard to track down.

 

[BCP]

The whole gimmick of the SFAR is weight vs price and a brand that has been around a long time. Theres really nothing else in that price range with the same size and weight.

 

[MadDuner]

I mess with things. Because I'm bored. And so this is the next thing to mess with.

It is a pile of white-hot radioactive space trash out of the box for sure. I just don't want to mince words. In fact, if there is a worse large caliber AR made right now it might be hard to track down.

Yet mine suits me just fine with absolutely zero changes.
Only malfunction was that it didn't like a particular brand of M80 MilSurp.

 

[doubloon]

So tell us why you would want one?
What is the draw to a device you don't like?

It's a good question, and fair. @BCP summed it up.

Yet mine suits me just fine with absolutely zero changes.
Only malfunction was that it didn't like a particular brand of M80 MilSurp.

Can't explain it, it's the same for some others, I wish I was one of the lucky ones.

The whole gimmick of the SFAR is weight vs price and a brand that has been around a long time. Theres really nothing else in that price range with the same size and weight.

This and some glowing testimonials from formerly trusted sources is what pulled me in from the beginning.

Now that I'm in, I'm just trying to make it better with minimal investment and without making the base weight significantly heavier.

Agree with everything on @MinistryOfTruth 's laundry list of things that could be better. I don't have quite the same level of vitriol for the trigger guard, it's basically the same as the trigger guard on Aero lowers ... hmm ... so maybe they are still copying things. I am on the fence about the buffer tube, I don't have the numbers in front of me but IIRC it's longer than a carbine but shorter than a rifle ... another odd duck.

 

[MinistryOfTruth]

The whole gimmick of the SFAR is weight vs price and a brand that has been around a long time. Theres really nothing else in that price range with the same size and weight.

I agree. I just wish that ruger upgraded their build quality and machining to something better. Like PSA levels.

Especially since there are parts of the gun that are excellent. Enough that it could be legendary...but its not. The Bolt/carrier for example is very good. I'm still shooting my barrel in and it seems to be getting a little better each range trip....so there probably isn't anything terrible going on there.

But my upper's critical operating surfaces are a hunk of shit. And the gas key's contact points with said upper surfaces might as well be a hand file. The inside of my buffer tube looks like it was cut with a lawnmower. The extra $1.00 to provide an Ambi charging handle was too much.

 

[MinistryOfTruth]

It's a good question, and fair. @BCP summed it up.



Can't explain it, it's the same for some others, I wish I was one of the lucky ones.



This and some glowing testimonials from formerly trusted sources is what pulled me in from the beginning.

Now that I'm in, I'm just trying to make it better with minimal investment and without making the base weight significantly heavier.

Agree with everything on @MinistryOfTruth 's laundry list of things that could be better. I don't have quite the same level of vitriol for the trigger guard, it's basically the same as the trigger guard on Aero lowers ... hmm ... so maybe they are still copying things. I am on the fence about the buffer tube, I don't have the numbers in front of me but IIRC it's longer than a carbine but shorter than a rifle ... another odd duck.

Its an A5/AR10 buffer tube that has had an AR15 buffer weight fitted. Got done measuring it all today for a replacement.