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Ruger SFAR small frame 308, 6.8 pounds
- Thread starter Ape_Factory
- Start date
No I can understand that. Shame Ruger didn’t think about that a bit more. I guess they were happy to have such a soft shooting 308 they didn’t care about brass
I'm guessing the bulk of the target audience for that AR at that price point are folks mostly shooting factory ammo and don't care about reloading.
But hey it could be worse.
Try shooting a HK 91 or clone.
The brass gets practically smashed, but on the plus side if you don't hit your target with the bullet, the case flying forward might take them out instead.
Changing the buffer is what jacked up your es and sd. You'd have to start load development all over again with the 168.I tried 3 ten shot groups today with 42.4,42.6(used last time) and 42.8 of Varget. Plus I switched to 6.7oz buffer.
The SD and ES tripled for 42.6
I think I’m going to concede that this barrel doesn’t like 168 gn MatchKings. Time to move on maybe. My plan was to see what the rifle could do with what should have been a tack driver bullet before developing a critter round. 42.6gn with low SD/ES numbers was looking promising with an acceptable 100 yard group, but not so much after today.
No big deal, kind of disappointing but it’s all fun, right! I’ll do some research on a good fox/coyote bullet and start over.
Even with the heavier buffer it’s still tearing up case heads. Am I pushing it too hard?
I was shooting my ‘farm critter’ 300AAC yesterday working up some 110 v-max loads, makes me realise how nice the trigger is on my SFAR
I went through all that with a 16" pws 308. I believe its a mid gas setup. Pws has since realized the error on their ways and the new rifles run a longer gas system.
I sat down with 168 fgmm and tried three different buffers, three springs and an a5 length extension. Groups shifted in poi and overall size with every change in the buffer setup and es and SD varied wildly. I racked my brain over it for quite a while to the point I was really just losing interest in the platform.
In the end I ended up with a home made heavy buffer, Tubbs flatwire and the a5 extension.
Seeing your struggles are reinforcing my idea of buying the 20" sfar and cutting it down to 16"
Now I want to take my Springfield SAR-8 out. I have some old British Surplus so I don't have to worry about damaging Berdan primed brass. But then I have to mount a scope in the claw mount. I really need to grab one of the picc rails that attach to the receiver mounts.
Reading your post makes me want to turn the gas block to zero and use it as a ‘straight pull bolt action’
What weight buffer did you end up with? I’ve tried the heaviest I can build with the Odin (7.6oz) and it’s horrible to shoot. I’ve not messed with springs yet, wouldn’t know where to start.
Reading your post makes me want to turn the gas block to zero and use it as a ‘straight pull bolt action’
What weight buffer did you end up with? I’ve tried the heaviest I can build with the Odin (7.6oz) and it’s horrible to shoot. I’ve not messed with springs yet, wouldn’t know where to start.
I left all the meat on this sucker I could. The back end measures the same length as an ar10 carbine length buffer but overall it's the same as a regular buffer. Ended up just over 11 ounces!
Prior to this I used the heavybuffers.com car-10xh which was a 6.5 ounce buffer and their heavy spring. Sucker kicked like a mule but shot decent. Honestly I didn't think a 308 was capable of that kind of recoil. Still wrecked brass though and it put a lot of gas in your face. Which isn't supposed to happen with a piston gun.
I switched to an a5 reciever extension with a Tubbs flatwire and my buffer and it finally calmed down to a 2-3 O'clock ejection pattern depending on what I'm shooting. I believe there's three tungsten weights in it and the whole front end of it is solid. Recoil isn't bad at all now believe it or not.
Actually, re-reading your post makes me wonder if I should stick to the 6.3oz buffer and try another ten shot with Varget 42.6 which gave good enough numbers and group before. The case head damage wasn’t significantly reduced by the 6.7oz one.
I can clean the brass up on some emery cloth, I guess it just won’t last as long or be as accurate. This wasn’t intended to be a 1000yd gun ( I’ve got a 6.5cm bolt gun for that), just as well really! As long as I can rely on it for coyote out to 2-300 yard and ring steel at 5-600 I’ll be happy enough.
I’m surprised 11oz doesn’t kick real bad! That must be helped by the Tubbs flat wire. I’ll have to look into that. Thanks.
Keep us posted. I'm curious as to how it'll work myself. One thing that surprised me when I handled the 16" sfar at my local gettin spot was how stout the spring was. I don't think the wolf extra power spring I had in my pws was that stiff.
The flatwire definitely has a different feel to it.
Yeah the stock spring is brutal. Whatever COL you load your rounds to , it’ll stretch .020 at least with the stock buffer.
Mixing by up the loads today. 168mk group was ok but numbers are higher than previously with 6.3oz buffer that I ran today. It was a good 20° warmer today, probably closer to 30° , at round 70! maybe that had something to do with the number disparity??
165gn interlock were a bit disappointing with very high SD numbers although groups weren’t terrible
200 ELD-X grouped well and had great numbers but on the last set ( not an outrageous load by any means) I blew a primer ( that I didn’t notice) which lead to a major jam ( think brass punch and lots of hammer work!)
I’ve never had a gun pop primers like this one. I should have been looking closer at pressure signs but not even being up at max loads I didn’t pay enough attention, my bad!! It’s even blown primers on factory 150gn so go figure
I’ll load up some 110 v-max, 150 btsp and more 200 ELD-X with IMR4895 next and see how they look. I won’t bother going anywhere near the higher end loads though. There’s definitely something about this gun and showing pressure signs at moderate charges ( and it seems to happen suddenly. ) Do AR10s in general have this problem? I’ve never owned one before.
Anyway, here’s a few photos to bore you. Any input always appreciated and Happy New Year! We all made it through another year without blowing our faces off
165gn interlock were a bit disappointing with very high SD numbers although groups weren’t terrible
200 ELD-X grouped well and had great numbers but on the last set ( not an outrageous load by any means) I blew a primer ( that I didn’t notice) which lead to a major jam ( think brass punch and lots of hammer work!)
I’ve never had a gun pop primers like this one. I should have been looking closer at pressure signs but not even being up at max loads I didn’t pay enough attention, my bad!! It’s even blown primers on factory 150gn so go figure
I’ll load up some 110 v-max, 150 btsp and more 200 ELD-X with IMR4895 next and see how they look. I won’t bother going anywhere near the higher end loads though. There’s definitely something about this gun and showing pressure signs at moderate charges ( and it seems to happen suddenly. ) Do AR10s in general have this problem? I’ve never owned one before.
Anyway, here’s a few photos to bore you. Any input always appreciated and Happy New Year! We all made it through another year without blowing our faces off
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My load runs with FC brass were pretty bad in terms of ejector/extractor marks, and lost some primers too, all well below book max loads. Win brass and lower loads held up better, but you can see even factory Winchester XP is getting a bit mangled up, with brass carved up by the ejector holes. I don't claim that the Win XP group is repeatable, but the rifle did seem to like that ammo.
(btw, the primers are missing below because I popped them out to check for pocket growth, only the highest 165gr load showed a little)
Once my LC LR brass comes in, I guess I probably need to drop a half grain or so and work up again. I had a few of the 150gr loads jam up during feeding, I think they didn't have quite enough power to cycle with the H2 buffer in, so I may reshoot those with an H or even carbine buffer in to see what happens.
(btw, the primers are missing below because I popped them out to check for pocket growth, only the highest 165gr load showed a little)
Once my LC LR brass comes in, I guess I probably need to drop a half grain or so and work up again. I had a few of the 150gr loads jam up during feeding, I think they didn't have quite enough power to cycle with the H2 buffer in, so I may reshoot those with an H or even carbine buffer in to see what happens.
I did d some brass prep last night, over 100 pieces. Just about every one had to be run over a file just so I could get it in the shell holder thanks to the ejector and extractor damage. I think much lower loads will need to be tested otherwise we’re going to be buying new brass far too often.
I just want a steel plinking load for out to 5-600 yards and a coyote load for up to 250-300 yards. I don’t think I’m going to get those at much lower charge weights.
Really want one of these, I hope it stays around. One with a light can and a MK5 would be a fairly medium weight little package. Can the barrel and handguard be changed?
Blown as in popped all the way out and rattling around in the magazine etc? I would send it back to Ruger. Something is wrong.
Ejector swipe and little burrs here and there are pretty normal but popped primers aren't.
I did see a YouTube video where someone had put a Midwest hand guard on. Not sure about barrel, I believe the bolt lugs different to regular AR milspec stuff so that would have to be dealt with.
I think there will be a ‘gen 2’ out before long.
Yeah, popped out. One jammed between gas key and bolt pivot pin and locked the BCG up ( see earlier post with photo)
I think the primer issue comes down to the bolt unlocking way too early. Once run in, and running on a lower gas setting it’s better ( with heavier buffer) but still shows ‘pressure signs’ way earlier than you’d expect.
I’ve been too busy on the farm to shoot lately but have several new loads to try and a Tubbs flat wire buffer spring. Hopefully I’ll get back on it this week.
Could be chamber/freebore few other things. I've had a bunch of 308 ARs, right now I have a 716i, the only time I popped primers was using a really hot load in the summer. The last ammo I fired through mine was some m118lr clone handloads and a few had ejector swipe but that's it & m118lr is a pretty stout load.
I've seen the video you're talking about. That was a standard ar15 handguard.
Although they have almost the same closed bolt pressure, the Tubbs is way easier to rack the bolt and has a very constant pressure throughout. Looking forward to seeing how it shoots!
That's what I noticed with mine. Has a more consistent feel to it when cycling the action. I've got one in my large frame and one in my ar15. I was less wowed by the ar15 and for the application it's in I may put the stock spring back in.
I've had the flatwire in two pws ar15's, one was a 16" with more of a carbine length gas system and it worked well in that gun bit the 14.5 that it's in now has a midlength gas setup and I really didn't notice much difference with it.
So in my limited experience it seemed to help the shorter gas systems the most. Which is what you're looking for. I hope it works out that way for you. I'm anxiously awaiting to see what you discover.
Worked on loads a bit more for the SFAR yesterday. It was raining so I tried to label the targets with load info before hanging them up, and then wound up losing track of which row was which, so they are kind of a mess.
The rifle does seem to favor lighter bullets, including the bunch of 150gr SP I had left over from a Hornady promo. I'll probably try something along the lines of 155gr ELDs at some point, now I think I'll swap the 12x SS for my 3x prism and run with these loads for a while since I have the bullets laying around.
The 150gr loads were pretty light and choked occasionally with the H2 in, so I went back to an H. I did see about 120fps higher velocities with LC LR brass than Winchester with the 150gr loads, which was more than I was expecting.
The rifle does seem to favor lighter bullets, including the bunch of 150gr SP I had left over from a Hornady promo. I'll probably try something along the lines of 155gr ELDs at some point, now I think I'll swap the 12x SS for my 3x prism and run with these loads for a while since I have the bullets laying around.
The 150gr loads were pretty light and choked occasionally with the H2 in, so I went back to an H. I did see about 120fps higher velocities with LC LR brass than Winchester with the 150gr loads, which was more than I was expecting.
Mine didn’t like 150s much, weird how it varies from rifle to rifle! Was this suppressed? How was your brass looking with H2 and H?
Yeah, I had my Nomad TI mounted and the GB on setting 1 for all the shooting yesterday. I don't think I'm seeing much difference between H and H2 brass, I'll check again with the 165gr since they are stouter, but I think it's just going to be kind of hard on brass either way, curse of the AR-10.
I went out to do some load development on a 300AAC and the SFAR this afternoon but after the 300AAC I was so damn cold I came back to the house 
but I did manage to do a back to back comparison between the stock recoil spring and the Tubbs flat wire.
Very hard to tell but the Tubbs actually seemed to kick a tiny bit more … maybe. Very little in it. I’d like to try the Tubbs with heavier ammo and a heavier buffer ( I’m already running a pretty hefty buffer) See photo. I’m not impressed with AE150, yet again giving terrible numbers ( some of it could be to swapping buffer springs but numbers were bad last time I tested AE150)
Best mod to rifle so far? Aero Breach charging handle. My goodness, what an improvement over stock!
but I did manage to do a back to back comparison between the stock recoil spring and the Tubbs flat wire. Very hard to tell but the Tubbs actually seemed to kick a tiny bit more … maybe. Very little in it. I’d like to try the Tubbs with heavier ammo and a heavier buffer ( I’m already running a pretty hefty buffer) See photo. I’m not impressed with AE150, yet again giving terrible numbers ( some of it could be to swapping buffer springs but numbers were bad last time I tested AE150)
Best mod to rifle so far? Aero Breach charging handle. My goodness, what an improvement over stock!
Well, think I’ve found a critter load ( v-max110) , looks good enough for 100-150 yard work and maybe a cheap mid range plinking load (Hornady 150fmj/bt)
I’d like to say the flier on the first group of Sierra 175tmk was me but I can’t I’ll try that load again.
Funny how the groups with the best numbers rarely have a group size to match!
I had 5 loads of 5 in 200eld-x but once again the gun jammed up, big time. Brass punch and hammer like before. I did some measuring and posted up in the reloading forum. Someone very kindly pointed out my problem ( most likely, yet to verify) For some stupid reason ( old age? Dumb?) I hadn’t checked my base to shoulder measurementI know better than that but there it is. My loaded cases had the same measurement as a fired case ! They cycled until the chamber got dirty ( quickly with a can on) I’ve resized 20 to test. If that fixes that ‘problem’ I can resize the other 150 primed cases
I got frustrated with it yesterday and thought sod it, it can just be an expensive tractor gun but then remembered the vent holes in the bolt and especially around the barrel extension. Hay dust, dirt etc would quickly fill any spaces up! Still hoping it turns out reliable.
I’d like to say the flier on the first group of Sierra 175tmk was me but I can’t
I’ll try that load again. Funny how the groups with the best numbers rarely have a group size to match!
I had 5 loads of 5 in 200eld-x but once again the gun jammed up, big time. Brass punch and hammer like before. I did some measuring and posted up in the reloading forum. Someone very kindly pointed out my problem ( most likely, yet to verify) For some stupid reason ( old age? Dumb?) I hadn’t checked my base to shoulder measurement
I know better than that but there it is. My loaded cases had the same measurement as a fired case ! They cycled until the chamber got dirty ( quickly with a can on) I’ve resized 20 to test. If that fixes that ‘problem’ I can resize the other 150 primed cases I got frustrated with it yesterday and thought sod it, it can just be an expensive tractor gun but then remembered the vent holes in the bolt and especially around the barrel extension. Hay dust, dirt etc would quickly fill any spaces up! Still hoping it turns out reliable.
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I'm surprised it cycles with those lighter loads.
IMR4895 at 42 grains in military brass with a hornady 150 FMJ loaded to the cannelure should be milspec type ammo in pressure and velocity (about 2.720?). If you use a 168gr 2.800 then it should be close to generic off the shelf match loads.
Small base sizing with lots of shoulder bump and trim to 2.0.
I have a few pet loads like win brass, 175smk, 43.5 varget, 2.80" that I'm suspicious if the rifle doesn't shoot well with them.
IMR4895 at 42 grains in military brass with a hornady 150 FMJ loaded to the cannelure should be milspec type ammo in pressure and velocity (about 2.720?). If you use a 168gr 2.800 then it should be close to generic off the shelf match loads.
Small base sizing with lots of shoulder bump and trim to 2.0.
I have a few pet loads like win brass, 175smk, 43.5 varget, 2.80" that I'm suspicious if the rifle doesn't shoot well with them.
The 150s ran around 2530. This rifle shows pressure early so I’m keeping loads a bit slow.
I’ve given up on 168smk as I just couldn’t nail down anything satisfactory.
The 110s ran really nice, very little recoil. The 175 and especially the 220 kick but I still want to play around with buffer weights if I go that route. I don’t want to be changing buffers to go between 110 varmint loads and 220. I think the 110 at nearly 3000 fps should be fine for coyote and fox so maybe the 220s are redundant anyway.
Seeing how much yours seems to like those 110gr Vmaxes really makes me want to try something like the 120gr Tac-Tx. If it shot those well near those velocities, should make a killer deer load.
So how's the Tubbs spring working out, not quite like you had hoped ?Well, think I’ve found a critter load ( v-max110) , looks good enough for 100-150 yard work and maybe a cheap mid range plinking load (Hornady 150fmj/bt)
I’d like to say the flier on the first group of Sierra 175tmk was me but I can’t
Funny how the groups with the best numbers rarely have a group size to match!
I had 5 loads of 5 in 200eld-x but once again the gun jammed up, big time. Brass punch and hammer like before. I did some measuring and posted up in the reloading forum. Someone very kindly pointed out my problem ( most likely, yet to verify) For some stupid reason ( old age? Dumb?) I hadn’t checked my base to shoulder measurement
I got frustrated with it yesterday and thought sod it, it can just be an expensive tractor gun but then remembered the vent holes in the bolt and especially around the barrel extension. Hay dust, dirt etc would quickly fill any spaces up! Still hoping it turns out reliable.
That load with the 110's looks pretty good. The 110's out of the blackout are pretty tough on pigs and deer, can't imagine more velocity would hurt anything. 2900 out of a 16" gun ain't too shabby.
There's not a huge difference with the Tubbs but ... there is something! Not sure what it is but I prefer it. I'm actually going to get one for 2 of my 300AACs so yes, there is 'something' about them.
I didn't know 110s would work on Deer and Pig! Going to work well on Fox and Coyote then for sure. I have the 20" barrel which helps that velocity. It's not a max charge by any means but I don't want to push it and get more popped primers.
I'm giving up on trying to get good group with good numbers as the two don't often go together, but as all critter shooting will be within 150 yards (past that and I'll probably just shoot fence wires anyway!), the numbers don't mean much if the group is good and dependable.
I can use the 150s for 5-600 yard steel at the range with their numbers. I'll just use my 6.5cm bolt gun for 1000 steel unless I stumble upon a good enough load one day.
My mistake, thought you had the 16.
The nosler varmegeddon 110 my buddy shoots is death on hogs! He shoots them out of an sbr for night work and for deer he shoots them out of a ruger American ranch in 300blk. I think I'm actually about to buy one of them myself. He sent me a pic of a big south Texas buck he killed a couple weeks ago that probably went 180-190 on the hoof. The pic was on snap or I'd post it. It was a big deer. Shot him at 167 yards! Said me made it about 10 yards and piled up. That's actually one of his primary meat getters and he kills the crap out of stuff with the 110's.
I shot a lot of the Sierra 110gr flat base hollow points out of mine and they were pretty lethal as well. I don't think you'll have any problems with them on coyotes.
My concern is with the thin bolt. Will let others do the testing to see how durable it is.
Thin headed 7.62x39 AR15 bolts don't hold up well.
Thin headed 7.62x39 AR15 bolts don't hold up well.
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I'm kind of hoping Ruger test fired a bolt more cycles than I'll ever shoot this rifle. Functional failings are one thing, but structural ones are another matter. Mind you ..... the bolt on my 3rd gen RPR failed after 30-40 rounds. Time will tell !
I don't know why you would tbh, unless you're very specifically loading your own for that barrel length.
if you want optimized .308 cal projectiles out of a barrel that short, just get an MCX Spear-LT with the 11.5" barrel. Then at least you can also shoot optimized subsonics as well.
then if you really dislike the MCX that much, you can make an equivalent using the Law Tactical ARIC (with the correct spring weights for 300blk) and a standard AR parts set otherwise, and get a PMM sig-style stock (the "kate moss" I believe its called) or another stock of your choosing
links:
Law Tactical ARIC
Fire folded repeatedly with the Law Tactical ARIC (AR Internal Carrier) The ARIC replaces the Complete Bolt Carrier Group and Recoil System of standard AR15 style firearms. ARIC (AR Internal Carrier) is designed to drop into your host firearm with the LAW Tactical Folder Stock Adapter (FSA).
www.lawtactical.com
Please keep us posted. I have a 12" Rainier Arms .308 barrel in a Mega upper that I use 100% suppressed. While still comparatively heavy, it's fun as hell to shoot.
Guys, I have a crazy question…
Origin story - I had hoped the LWRC Six8 would allow me to build an AR in .223 Wylde with an insanely long max COAL, but the small gain of only 40 thou just wasn’t enough to justify the work I’d have to do on it.
Ready for crazy? Here I am.
Can a standard 5.56 AR upper be installed on an SFAR lower? If so, I’d like to develop a magazine for it. I think I could gut an SR25 PMAG, modifying it as necessary, and bond in a 5.56 mag that’s been windowed at the front for super long loads.
I may have to use an AR9 bolt catch or something like that, but I can figure that out down the road.
The first thing to know would be whether a standard upper can be stuck on there, and I’m hoping one of you guys will help feed my illness.
Cheers,
Lawndart
Origin story - I had hoped the LWRC Six8 would allow me to build an AR in .223 Wylde with an insanely long max COAL, but the small gain of only 40 thou just wasn’t enough to justify the work I’d have to do on it.
Ready for crazy? Here I am.
Can a standard 5.56 AR upper be installed on an SFAR lower? If so, I’d like to develop a magazine for it. I think I could gut an SR25 PMAG, modifying it as necessary, and bond in a 5.56 mag that’s been windowed at the front for super long loads.
I may have to use an AR9 bolt catch or something like that, but I can figure that out down the road.
The first thing to know would be whether a standard upper can be stuck on there, and I’m hoping one of you guys will help feed my illness.
Cheers,
Lawndart
This thread should answer some of your questions. https://mdws.forumchitchat.com/post/ruger-sfar-308-12445120?&trail=25
The short answer is yes.. a AR-15 upper will pin onto the SFAR lower..the longer answer is that the firing control unit is moved backwards to accommodate the larger magwell...so it may likely depend on if you can fit a standard bolt in the Ruger carrier and use the longer SFAR firing pin....
If you decide to do it, keep us updated with your progress!
Thanks
Although upper and lower pin holes 'would' align, they can't because the bolt release is in the way. Even if you removed half the width of the bolt release, I don't think it'll work on the AR bolt. FCG is in the wrong place plus the SFAR lower is slightly wider than an AR so the upper doesn't sit on the lower properly. I can't close the upper/lower due to the bolt release being in the way but it looks like you'd have a small gap at the rear too.
As far as I can tell , the SFAR and AR bolt locking lugs are different so it's not like you can try swapping them around.
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What COAL are you hoping for? I've gotten to 2.42 on a standard small frame lower.
Maybe that's with a DPMS LRP-style magazine that uses the rear rib as a single stack?
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