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Ruger SFAR small frame 308, 6.8 pounds
- Thread starter Ape_Factory
- Start date
The light weight and smattering of glowing reviews and what looked like simple explanations for the feed failures I saw (loos blocks, etc.) enticed me to take a flier on it. I thought "how bad could it be? I've owned KelTecs before and made them run."
What is the all in weight for the build you propose? Base rifle only.
Yankee Hill has a "suppressor" gas block with a .063" port. The blocks are less than $20. I'd start there with some specific drill bits from McMaster if you need more gass. Maybe even a red Sprinco buffer spring if you're feeling adventurous. You could also try a BRT blank gas tube. Your enormous gas port is probably going to flame cut AGB's like SLR.
It's a definite concern. Since I didn't measure it before I shipped it off I'm not sure this already didn't happen to the Ruger regulator since it was ~0.093" before I sent it back and ~0.102" when I got it back ... didn't measure it before sending it back but shot most of my "required" "break-in" rounds on setting #2.
I'm going to keep shooting mine in it's stock form.
I don't feel the need to re-design or re-engineer any of Ruger's decisions.
Of course if it develops a problem? THEN I'll tinker with it.
I don't feel the need to re-design or re-engineer any of Ruger's decisions.
Of course if it develops a problem? THEN I'll tinker with it.
Don't worry Ruger will do all that on their Gen2 release.
The YHM has enough material that I wouldn't worry about erosion. The SFAR has a lot of potential, I'm pretty sure you can get it running right for under $100.
If mine had been as good as it is now when I first unboxed it I'd be less inclined to tinker with it myself. As mentioned, I plan to shoot mine as is for a while as well but I'm going to keep an eye on the regulator ports. If you have a set of calipers somewhere it might be worth jotting down the size of your regulator ports for future reference to see if any of them get bigger.
I *really* wish I know the difference between the bolt they threw away and the bolt they sent back to me.
I like to think so. The YHM is a good suggestion as all my rifles run with dedicated suppressors so I really don't need a fancy clicky AGB, just one that works.
I could build a light weight AR 10, I have a new titanium bolt carrier to start, I can machine lightening holes in everything possible, swiss cheese the lower, including the titanium bolt carrier, flute a light barrel, aluminum short muzzle brake, don't have much titanium in stock, but utilize it...we have a rare metals plants near my home, that produce titanium, and a salvage yard for cheap metals bar ends, etc...but that's no my current project.
This is the next fun project, AR 15 450 bushmaster necked to 30 Rem AR, with brass cases one turned down to Grendel bolt the other 450 Bushmaster bolt. The barrel is turned from from old 308 take off Varmint and profiled to AR 15. The easiest way to add case capacity with out introducing too many specialized parts. The grendel bolt adds a bit more metal to the AR 15 bolt over the 450 Bushmaster bolt ...both will be tried. More build parts coming in a few days. The chamber gauge completed with the reamer, one forming die completed and factory die used, magazines altered to feed larger dia rds done.
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How light? Personally I would prefer not resorting to "swiss cheesing" the lower.
How much would it weigh?
No interest in Rem AR or any boutique or wildcat rounds. If I was I would post it somewhere other than a thread specifically about the Ruger SFAR.
I don't think there is that much weight saving in punching holes in an aluminum receiver. The weight savings are in a lighter BCG and barrel.
My AR10's always seem light - until you put a scope on them.
I'm trying an LPVO on the Ruger instead of a bigger and heavier scope.
We'll see if it stays.
Yeah, I *think* Ruger lightened their receiver by just shrinking the whole thing, so much so they had to get creative to secure the tube to the receiver.
The BCG with the bolt is nearly identical in size/weight to a 5.56 BCG/bolt, they pencil profiled the barrel. made a "barely there" hand guard and a ton of other weight reducing engineering but no ventilated lower.
No shit, especially thermal.
But my old LR-308 is about 9 and a half pounds with no glass and no suppressor, not even a brake. Just the rifle and an empty magazine. My cheap ass thermal with a mount adds another 2 and a quarter pounds. We're getting close to 12 pounds and I haven't even loaded it or put a suppressor on it ... another 2 pounds on the conservative side let's say.
With glass (3-9x40, ~ 1.5lbs with the mount) the SFAR comes in close to 8 and a half pounds ... that's about a 3lb savings, I'll take it if I can make it work.
One thing to keep in mind with the 30 RAR was that they used an AR-10 sized bolt, but with AR-15 sized lug lengths and barrel extension teeth lengths. This could have been due to telescoping length travel in order to still have a BCG that would reciprocate back enough to clear the bolt catch, without impeding on the bolt carrier rail/RET boss constraints and a different recoil system that allowed deeper travel into the RET.
Bolt mass with AR-10 length lugs might also cause carrier weight to bolt weight issues for reliable extraction and cycling.
Another interesting thing was what MGI did with their modular lower receivers, with the different magazine well options.
They squeezed a modified M14 steel mag in there but couldn’t get it to work. Last 2 rounds wouldn’t feed from what Mack told me.
I had 2 of their Quick-Change Barrel uppers, kept the original one with the older free float tube and haven’t used it in probably 10 years.
For longer COL in the 2.500” space, this could be a temporary approach with the modular magazine well. I think a relocated FCG pocket to the rear like on the POF Rev and Rogue might be a better solution long-term, but you wouldn’t need to relocate it .625”, and instead could do .500”. Firing pins would need a slightly longer tail to interface with hammer swing location of course.
Magazines are the biggest hurdle, but we have access to far more prototyping tools nowadays than ever before.
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But... the wildcat will be "light," powerful, LOL... and obviously interests me, or I would not build it...obviously.
How could I say how much it weigh? Witlh a mind scale?
But light AR 10 are out there, ...lighter than the Ruger SFAR, that seems to have so problematic, which I am not interested in owning a bunch of problems, with its Ruger specific parts just because it's light.
So it was just a question to those who own the problematic beast, to maybe build the light Weight AR 10, as others do, on the net, with build sheets so you can make the same light weight AR 10...simple,.. and it works...just a thought...How much does a thought weight?
I'm using one of those older leupold 1-4s that had the bdc knob and mil reticule on my 716i. It's 12oz with the mount. Ideally I'd like an acog but the short eye relief on a 308 always bugs me.
Well now you're saying you can't even say if it would be light.
Low content distraction.
Someone on the Ruger forum posted a couple three days ago that Ruger is cutting chambers shorter than SAAMI in production rifles and not bothering to check GO/NOGO when you send your rifle for service
You can't even carry on a realistic conversation... very childish..acting like so many liberal morons, confused...about ...everything, devoid from reality.
Get yourself a Bud Light...and feel...light, and liberated... and float away in weightless imagination.
I don't want an ultra light 308... at this time, but if I decide to, it will be lighter than the Ruger...guaranteed...but then the Swiss cheese problem, might come into play...you don't like that, but it ain't your rifle... I'm the only one who has to like it...and nobody cares. Weigh that.
So what's the status on these rifles now? If I get a 20" SFAR with the new gas block, will it run well suppressed on the right setting?
Maybe.
Problems with these rifles (16 & 20) have spanned loose/misaligned gas blocks, monster gas ports, regulator parts replacement, bolt replacement and (allegedly) short chambers.
While my rifle (20) has *mostly* stopped chewing up brass bases it still has the monster gas port and it's still tattooing brass with ejector marks on every setting. You have to wonder where this extra pressure is still coming from, some people are placing bets on incorrect chamber dimensions.
Even if you tame the monster gas port with a new block there's the question of whether not it will erode.
But all these problems seem "random" ... it's not *every* rifle. Some people claim they have no issues at all.
I'm not the one posting about my Rem 30 fetish random threads looking for attention instead of actually contributing to the original topic.
Maybe you have something to say somewhere worth listening to but all you've done here is whine about how nobody likes 30 Rem and beat your chest about how you can make an imaginary light AR-10 but you won't back it up with numbers. And now you've resorted to insults, the last resort of the weak-minded.
Thanks for all your "help" by talking about how great the 30 Rem and wildcats are and how you could make a "light" AR-10 (presumably that would rival the lightness of the SFAR since that's the actual topic) but I don't find it helpful so I think I'll used the ignore button for the first time in this forum.
Good luck in all your adventures.
Seems like 99% of them run but it's a cheap rifle so have cheap expectations. It's also an AR so you can tune it yourself with a different gas block, buffer, buffer spring, that sort of stuff. Like get rid of Ruger's gas block in favor of this one:
RIFLESPEED Gas Controls for AR15 and AR10 Style Rifles
www.riflespeed.com
Can you post some pictures of the stripped carrier cam track? Your pictures aren't showing excess chamber pressure. The bolt is unlocking under pressure which is why there are ejector swipes. What does the brass look like with the gas turned off?
See the picture in the previous post, brass marked as "0" is regulator position "0".
I don't know for certain there is any "excess chamber pressure" in my SFAR but mine hasn't ka-boomed. Next time I'm at the range I'll chrono some factory rounds and see if I'm getting any crazy velocities.
I'll try to get the picture you want in the next day or two.
Seems like 99% of them run but it's a cheap rifle so have cheap expectations. It's also an AR so you can tune it yourself with a different gas block, buffer, buffer spring, that sort of stuff. Like get rid of Ruger's gas block in favor of this one:
RIFLESPEED Gas Controls for AR15 and AR10 Style Rifles
www.riflespeed.com
Agreed about replacement, that will happen whether the rifle behaves or not. Maybe also a buffer and a spring, I'll figure that out when I try to tune a new block.
I looked at that riflespeed block, crazy expensive but I realize it's feature rich. I never shoot unsuppressed so quick adjusts don't have a strong appeal for me. I couldn't figure out if the extended adjustment knobs would clear the 0.750" hump at the end of the SFAR barrel.
Do you have headspace gages? I'm curious if you push the shoulders back .002" and hand feed each cartridge into the chamber with the gas shut off, whether or not you get the same ejector and extractor channel imprints? You may have several issues; too much gas, too much headspace, and a short throat. Too much gas; heavy ejector swipes. Too much headspace; bolt thrust with ejector and extractor channel imprints. Short throat; higher pressure and masks the long headspace. Loosely holding the rifle is reducing bolt thrust by allowing the rifle to accelerate with the case. Your pictures show imprints with no gas and swipes with gas.
Frankly, your barrel is a mess and the whole rifle should go back again.
I have a Hornady Comparator. I went through the Comparator exercise between fired and unfired brass, probably need to to that again.
Yes, the prints are there with no gas which I didn't check for on my first time out but I tend to agree (without the actual expertise) it speaks to the probability that more than one problem exists.
Ruger claims they "repaired" the gas regulator and the gas port on the last trip ... I have not idea how you "repair" a gas port but it looks exactly the same through the borescope as it did before I sent it back. The only "repair" I could identity on the regulator is they made the #2 valve even BIGGER than it was before ... ~0.093" and ~0.102" after. They also say they replaced the bolt but I didn't put any identifying marks on it and I don't think I have any pictures of the original so I can't say what's different and they didn't. Even after all that it's not "good" but it's better ... pictures of the gouges and dents from before the "fix" are posted earlier in this thread or the other thread.
I've never bumped the shoulders on a loaded round before, I'd have to work up to that but your reasoning has been voiced by several people if not the proposal.
I want to see what happens with the gun on the Ruger forum before I send it back again and I'd like to narrow it down to some specific issues because clearly Ruger thinks there aren't any "real" issues ... just shoot more to "break it in". But I agree, the best thing about the barrel I have is the rifling ... dented muzzle, monster gas port, pencil profile (complicates shortening), chamber issues? ...
No, bump the shoulders on the fired cases, not loaded. Or don't bump them at all. The point is to see if you get imprints when case can't move rearward.
Ah, that makes more sense. At first I was thinking you were thinking on some next level that was beyond my understanding ... bumping shoulders on live rounds, he must be some kind of WizZaRd.
I may reload some after some more testing with OTS ammo mainly due to the significant lessening of the brass damage. I want to see what a couple CoreLokts look like with the current "fixes".
Original brass damage.
Ruger SFAR small frame 308, 6.8 pounds
I don't have the Ruger SFAR. This started life as a .308 pistol (12 inch barrel) and I had POF change the barrel to 16 inches. It is still very light and haven't had any problems. I sent it to POF to have my suppressor tuned to the rifle. They did it for free and shipped it back at their cost ...
www.snipershide.com
Although they obviously have been cutting some QC corners I just can't believe they would mess up the gas block design twice. I'm passing for another couple of months to see what experiences pop up. I'm also kind of holding out for a 6.5 version ...Seems like 99% of them run but it's a cheap rifle so have cheap expectations. It's also an AR so you can tune it yourself with a different gas block, buffer, buffer spring, that sort of stuff. Like get rid of Ruger's gas block in favor of this one:
RIFLESPEED Gas Controls for AR15 and AR10 Style Rifles
www.riflespeed.com
Changed to Aero Precision AR15/M4 5.56 Ambidextrous Charging Handle. Fired another 60 rounds of Hornady 168 gr. A-MAX with zero malfunctions. .8 MOA at 100 yards and 1 MOA at 200 yards. Average velocity of 2583. Temp. 81 degrees. Humidity 87%. No deformity of brass. Not bad for under $1K 308 AR.
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I would definitely be happy if my brass looked like that.
Did the Aero handle reduce the smoke in your face?
So I did a 30 RAR build of sorts, and shot it today. It was very accurate and performed well, turning in 3 shot groups as small as .175", another 4 shot group .368" with H335 and Lapua 155 gr Scenar at 2415 Ave fps. With H335 and cheap 15 cent bulk 30-30 150 gr flat point, 5 shot groups of .672", .961" .759" and 8 shots into .669" using a 450 bushmaster bolt, and 450 Bushmaster brass. Total cost of the build $324.41, for XL reciever, 450 bolt carrier, and handguard. Everything else repurposed free parts and take offs. Used an old factory Remington 700 308 barrel with 8000 rds on it. Cut to length, profiled to AR 15 from a fluted 26" Police barrel that was very accurate for a factory barrel. Could not get all the firecracking out when rechambering, but much of it. Took off a barrel extension from a 6 mm ARC BA barrel, and threaded, the shortened and profiled 308 barrel for it and chamber for the new bolt, threaded the barrel for muzzle break and made the muzzle brake, drill the gas port, and fitted a repurposed gas block and gas tube. Just a shade over 6 lbs...accurate, fun to shoot, and smacks the target pretty good at 100 yds. Leverevolution was a big disappointment, it was 250 fps slower than stated in 2 manuals.The .30 RAR would do well to have a 2.500” COL allowable magazine and lower receiver, with a large OD barrel extension and bolt head like they did. They kept the bolt and barrel extension lug lengths at AR-15 length, which limited the MAP to 55ksi, but that doesn’t bother me because there is so much case capacity.
with
2.260” really handicaps it to short, low-BC .30 cal bullets that are great for whacking game within 300yds, but to really open it up, it would either need to be necked-down to 6.5mm or increase the action/magazine allowable COL.
Can't utilize the full pressure of the original 30 RAR but it does pretty good with H335, and 150 and 155 gr bullets. There are a few other powders to try. The 155 gr bullet at 2415 fps isn't bad, but it's nothing exceptional, either...not done playing with it yet, but $324 is cheap to see what might be possible, and a fun learning experiment.
So build that and post it here and take your other projects to a different thread. You’ve already been asked a few times, but that doesn’t seem to concern you.
There’s such a thing as posting non-relevant posts in an informational thread and it is frowned upon. Don’t be a dick and try to be considerate of the actual subject at hand.
Thank you for your cooperation.
I thought it was about light 6 poundish 308 and problems with the Ruger SFAR, ...so why put up with it? If something else is available, and light.
I already started the other project, and finished it, short of 308 performance, and not readily available. But a possible option, ...that, and other options for those who want to try proven platforms that work...or continue suffering from their problematic Ruger SFAR. Makes no difference to me...
I thought the post on Modualr Weapons System design to be interesting, and did not know it existed, so I'm happy it was mentioned... on subject or not,.. I like options...just in case the one chosen does not work.
I already started the other project, and finished it, short of 308 performance, and not readily available. But a possible option, ...that, and other options for those who want to try proven platforms that work...or continue suffering from their problematic Ruger SFAR. Makes no difference to me...
I thought the post on Modualr Weapons System design to be interesting, and did not know it existed, so I'm happy it was mentioned... on subject or not,.. I like options...just in case the one chosen does not work.
How did you interpret this title: “(Ruger SFAR small frame 308, 6.8 pounds)”, the way you did?
Away is a direction you should consider going.
I don't believe tinfoil is necessary here.
I might have more of a business mind than the average joe and strongly believe the holding company was cashing out the entire value of the "goodwill" of those brands before flipping them. The "goodwill" is the accounting term for the dollar value of the reputation of a company above the actual value of its assets and holdings. I believe the holding company realized those brands had left profit on the table via building up their goodwill/reputation, as gun companies tended to do in the 20th century. They offered fair prices, fixed customer guns for free, didn't cheap out, provided products that were better than they claimed they should be, etc. We've all encountered a rifle made in the 20th century that has no business being as nice as what it cost. So a holding company noticed the manufacturing companies were undervalued and nabbed them up. The moment it was owned by a holding company, a bean counter laid off QA and QC and they started pumping out junk that sold as well as the more expensive to produce products of the past. Doing so creates an immediate profit increase and it takes years to deplete the company of the goodwill value. Once it is perceived to be gone, the assets can then be sold off at value.
Holding companies ruin manufacturers.
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I already stated that in the statement,...an explanation most reasonable intellectuals could understand. Plus... Free speech,.. And free to interpret things any way I like, agree or disagree..without approval or acceptance from anyone... Still America? You do not have to like my opinion of the Ruger SFAR, with a statement of, get something different, if it doesn't preform, or any suggestions... I do not care...I type whatever I like, and you do not have to read it...Isn't that wonderful?..and truly thoughtful, to explain the American experience, of free speech and the first Ammendment.
Doesn’t apply to a private forum, but then I’m not the intellectual you think you are. You have a “wonderful” day!
Yeah, I would not put up with a problematic rifle, just because its light, but its proprietary parts, makes it difficult to obtain parts other than things that are already causing problems...
And the company appears to be not addressing the problems. So why not try to use available parts to build your own light 6 ish lb AR 10, others seem to be doing it..I have some parts like a ti bolt carrier, add a few more from light weight manufacturers and appears very possible to be in that 6 lb range...if the manufacturers weights are accurate. That is all I'm saying...and scrounging parts to make it happen...if it works for me, it could work for others..and I've seen video of guys weighing light AR 10s...and light weight manufacturers of parts adds up to be very possible.
You're right. Free speech gives you the right to make it obvious how much of an asshole you are.
This is genius. The lightened bolt carrier of the SFAR might be a problem, and the heavy bolt carrier of an AR-10 might be the solution. So we should spend a bunch of money on a lightened, titanium bolt carrier.
Bless us with more such wisdom, oh great genius asshole, master of thread derailment.
Thanks, for the kind comment and enjoying your free speech, is noted...I was just trying to help those wishing for a light 308... I can not fix the problematic Ruger if Ruger doesn't have a fix for it. So I guess you put up with the Ruger or try something else...my opinion, I'd try something else, genius.
The lesbians that used to live next door to me were really into strap-ons and 30RAR.
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