Rifle Scopes S&B Ultra Short

[thelurcher]

Just browsing some optics sites and I see the Euro pricing for the Schmidt & Bender PM II 5-20x50 ULTRA SHORT has made an appearance.
€2,785 - could have been worse.
They're meant to be bringing out an illuminated version later in the year - where are they likely to have the illumination controls?
A separate knob in the usual place will hardly leave room for the ring - will they combine it with the side parallax or have it on the eye bell?

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Two options come to mind: (1) concentric with the side focus control, or (2) concentric with the elevation turret knob (like the Steiner focus ring).

 

[Marcoman]

Two options come to mind: (1) concentric with the side focus control, or (2) concentric with the elevation turret knob (like the Steiner focus ring).

You mean Kahles.

 

[buckey]

What sites - would love to take a look at these!!

 

[jonthomps]

Used my google ninja skills and this thing looks NICE. Low profile turrets and compact design in a 5-20x is an awesome idea. ETA might be a problem though...

 

[Dogtown]

Schmidt & Bender?s Stratos - Optics - Optics - News - all4shooters.com

The other riflescope, the PM II 5-20x50 Ultra Short, featuring 4x zoom magnification ratio, has been manufactured in response to a specific request by a military customer; it is extremely short, just below 30cm in length, and features the same completely waterproof all-metal rugged build of the High Power. The 30mm body features a capped windage turret, and an ultra low profile locking elevation turret with an internal elevation adjustment range of 40 mrad. The reduced length of the PM II 5-20x50 Ultra Short allows the use of clip-on optronic devices in front of the riflescope saving Picatinny rail real-estate and allowing for more compact weapon platforms to be deployed.

 

[thefitter]

Used my google ninja skills and this thing looks NICE. Low profile turrets and compact design in a 5-20x is an awesome idea. ETA might be a problem though...

Probably the standard S&B 3 year wait time.

 

[Alex V]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmzoMPE9j9g

 

[6Dasher]

Probably the standard S&B 3 year wait time.

Damn, and I didn't want to say anything

 

[pmclaine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmzoMPE9j9g

Do they use dwarfs for these pictures of the scopes being held. Based on the video of a 5-25X put out by Schmidt I expected the arrival of a 32 inch aluminum bat after I made my order. God these things look huge when they hold them. I need to figure out the trick photography of how they do it before I make my next twitter post ala Anthony Weiner.

 

[thelurcher]

A guy from another forum I'm a member of runs this site -
Schmidt & Bender PM II 5-20x50 ULTRA SHORT
He seems to have a good reputation - not very active but has given honest advice even if it possibly cost him a sale.
I sent him a mail there on expected delivery date.

 

[thelurcher]

Two options come to mind: (1) concentric with the side focus control, or (2) concentric with the elevation turret knob (like the Steiner focus ring).

I'd prefer (1) - which would be my bet.

 

[Jerry R]

Probably the standard S&B 3 year wait time.

Actually everything is on schedule for a late summer release on these. The one shown in the video has a single turn locking elevation where the new one will have a double turn but only a couple mm's taller than what you see in the video.
Also, the illumination will be in an area that will not reduce any mounting area nor will it be incorporated with the parallax knob. It will reside in the tapered section between the vario and the the main tube.

I had the opportunity to get one on one of my guns and spend some time behind it and needless to say there is no comparable scope available on the market today in terms of optical and mechanical quality that even comes close.

More to follow.

 

[thelurcher]

A guy from another forum I'm a member of runs this site -
Schmidt & Bender PM II 5-20x50 ULTRA SHORT
He seems to have a good reputation - not very active but has given honest advice even if it possibly cost him a sale.
I sent him a mail there on expected delivery date.

They got back to me -
'The latest information from S&B was that this scopes will be available in September.'

 

[ryodlsl]

Anyone know who makes the scope rings in that video?

 

[dcjs]

Anyone know who makes the scope rings in that video?

Those are ERA-TAC rings by Recknagel. They are available as seperate rings or one-piece mount and with normal bolt/nut attachment or QD levers. Pretty much the default choice for heavy duty picatinny mounts in Germany/Europe.

ERA-TAC one-piece mounts

 

[CH3NO2]

I'm really interested in this scope for my LMT MWS. Does anyone have any more information or pictures?

 

[jonthomps]

September isn't bad. Any word on MSRP? Thinking seriously about one of these.

 

[Shotplacement]

Wow that looks pretty hefty

 

[Jerry R]

MSRP was announced at SHOT as $3499 and I've been told production models are to be illuminated and also have the new low profile double turn locking MTC elevation.

 

[30calDeath]

The scope looks humongous!!!! But man am I interested.....good thing I only have a 16" AR10 and dont have any use for it at the moment. Would love to build another rifle in the future for something like this.

 

[Jerry R]

The scope looks humongous!!!! But man am I interested.....good thing I only have a 16" AR10 and dont have any use for it at the moment. Would love to build another rifle in the future for something like this.

It is anything but humongous, coming in at 30 cm (11.79") it is quite compact. I was actually thinking it looked a little odd on a 26" barreled bolt gun.

 

[Mike407]

Thanks for the info guys! This will be perfect for my Covert!

 

[jonthomps]

Jerry - that photo sealed the deal, I'm getting one. It's exactly what I'm looking for. I'm going to be starting another GAP build (xtreme hunter) and this scope will go great with it. Available reticles?

 

[Jerry R]

Initially it will be available with the Tremor 2 but the H2CMR will be directly behind it as an offering. And of course the H59 will be offered as well.
So far that's all I've heard of as those are the most requested reticles currently.

 

[Dogtown]

I see my HDMR replacement finally

 

[jonthomps]

Showed this to my wife then asked her if she liked it. Her quote:

"This looks like the pudgy little kid that needs to eat their vegetables."

 

[997/2man]

This thing would be perfect on a 16-18" .308 rifle. Or a 20".

Spuhr mount for sure.

Looks really sweet.

 

[CH3NO2]

This thing would be perfect on a 16-18" .308 rifle. Or a 20".

Spuhr mount for sure.

Looks really sweet.

I agree! I really want one of these for my LMT MWS.

 

[sail2468]

Jerry, this thing is really peaking my interest. What do you give up performance wise (if anything) when you manufacture a compact scope like this vs. something like your 3-20x50?

 

[Jerry R]

Actually, the 5-20 has compromised nothing optically in comparison to the 3-20. Personally, I believe the 3-20 lacks a few qualities that the 5-25 has although it is a great scope.
Compromises have to be made when designing an optic with a short focal length and/or a scope with a very broad zoom range. The eye box may not be as forgiving on this as on the 3-20 but is on par with the other PMII models.

I had the opportunity to compare this side by side with a couple other compact scopes available on the market and the difference was simply astounding in all light conditions. Leaves on trees were visible at 1500 meters with the other compacts but I could see in detail the twigs and branches that supported the leaves with the 5-20.

Not everyone needs or can truly appreciate this level of optical quality but those of us who do will own one.

 

[sail2468]

Thanks Jerry, this looks like a serious contender for my AW if it comes out on timeline. I am always trying to do more with less. The 3-20 is nice but it is big.

 

[ejg]

Just browsing some optics sites and I see the Euro pricing for the Schmidt & Bender PM II 5-20x50 ULTRA SHORT has made an appearance.
€2,785 - could have been worse.
They're meant to be bringing out an illuminated version later in the year - where are they likely to have the illumination controls?
A separate knob in the usual place will hardly leave room for the ring - will they combine it with the side parallax or have it on the eye bell?

Alan,
Had a look through one at the IWA, fantastic glass, really short. Would make a great hunting scope.
Looks like your new rifle re-barrel is on track, spoke to Fergal the other day.
edi

 

[gyr2]

This is interesting.... Especially for a light hunting rifle.
Edi how would you compare it to the Kahles.

 

[ejg]

This is interesting.... Especially for a light hunting rifle.
Edi how would you compare it to the Kahles.

Jaime, I'd say glass is quite similar to Kahles , I thought from low mag up better than the 5-25 S&B,
lack of illumination would be a bonus for me as I hardly use it. Funny enough it was the only scope on the
S&B stand that interested me. First impression was "wow". Shorter, lighter, simpler and good mag range.
edi

 

[Shotplacement]

Wow that is one hefty scope.

 

[sail2468]

Jerry, another question. Will this fit is a one piece mount like SPUHR and AI?

 

[Jerry R]

Jerry, another question. Will this fit is a one piece mount like SPUHR and AI?

Total mounting area on the optic is 127.7mm or 5.03". Protrusion on bottom for spring cover is the same dimension as other PMII's.
In the photo above I had it mounted in a set of Seekins lows and had a few thousandth's between the scope and rail.

 

[sail2468]

Good deal Jerry, I will have to measure when I get home. Thanks.

 

[Kiwi Greg]

Im a little confused by this, in the video she clearly says 40milrad elevation & talks about shooting a long ways out...but it appears from the specs that 14 is closer ????

 

[Cross C]

Initially it will be available with the Tremor 2 but the H2CMR will be directly behind it as an offering. And of course the H59 will be offered as well.
So far that's all I've heard of as those are the most requested reticles currently.

Any plans for the MOA P4F reticle in the future?

 

[Jerry R]

Kiwi, the scope has 40 MRAD of total internal travel. The knobs in the video are a locking single turn design which offer approximately 16.5 MRAD travel while the production units are intended to be released with the new double turn set up offering around 32 or 34 MRAD of travel. The double turn knobs will retain the low profile that you see in the video with a total height of about 17mm.

Regarding the P4F MOA, if there is enough demand for it I would imagine it to be offered as an option. I have not heard but will certainly look in to it.

 

[jonthomps]

I'm reviving this thread. Anyone have a more solidified answers on availability? Last word was sometime in Sept.

 

[TheGerman]

Probably the standard S&B 3 year wait time.

And your warranty has expired once you receive it.

 

[Lusaka]

I came across two examples on the S&B stand at DSEI here in the UK showing the two different turret types. RRP is €2340.34 before sales tax, so in the UK with our 20% tax and €-£ conversion, we can expect £2450-2500 (if we don't get gouged). Expected before year end in Europe (allegedly).

As has been said elsewhere, it has arisen out of a contract for a Customer and subsequently released to the market.

Reticles etc are on their website.

May be not to everyone's taste but I appreciated their lightness but found the exit pupil dropped too small for my liking beyond x15 magnification. I use a NF 3-15x50 F1 and prefer x12 on that so not really that bothered about high mag.

View attachment 17405

View attachment 17406

 

[gyr2]

Isn't the warranty 10 years on this one?

 

[Glassaholic]

May be not to everyone's taste but I appreciated their lightness but found the exit pupil dropped too small for my liking beyond x15 magnification.

This is not a design flaw of course but simply a limitation of the design spec. Any 15x + with a 50mm objective is going to struggle with the exit pupil. Was it the exit pupil or possibly some tunneling or something else that bothered you?

Jerry R, any possibility we might see the MSR come to this scope? Love the compactness, zoom range and the increased FOV at 5x. This opens the door for a lot of possibilities, especially for my LMT LM8. Hopefully see this sometime next year.

 

[00boraslow]

Any update on the release date?

 

[00boraslow]

Any update on the release date?

Still can't find any info on release date.

 

[Foweis]

Still can't find any info on release date.

+1