salt bath annealing does not work

[MikeMcCasland]

I've never made any claims on annealing other than the seating force or neck tension becomes more consistent. I am not positive my AMP Mark 2 anneals the shoulder hard enough for any gains and no means or the will to test it.
But I have to say you do go against the grain. If your shoulder bumps are more accurate, and the seating feels more consistent, and now you can trim each firing making necks the same length also, and you are not seeing any gains in the numbers categories or results downrange, something is wrong. To me, it would seem impossible when you make things more consistent that there are no perceived benefits.

They were already fairly consistent to begin with, but certainly understand the concept you're

I've never made any claims on annealing other than the seating force or neck tension becomes more consistent. I am not positive my AMP Mark 2 anneals the shoulder hard enough for any gains and no means or the will to test it.
But I have to say you do go against the grain. If your shoulder bumps are more accurate, and the seating feels more consistent, and now you can trim each firing making necks the same length also, and you are not seeing any gains in the numbers categories or results downrange, something is wrong. To me, it would seem impossible when you make things more consistent that there are no perceived benefits.

Just to be clear, I wasn't referencing you. There were a few posts in here inferring their annealing had a direct correlation to their low ES/SD.

As far as seeing results on target, I just haven't so far; not sure what to tell you. I suspect it's because my shoulder bump was fairly consistent before (less so, but still consistent), I'm loading bullets that are relatively insensitive to seating depth (within a given depth window of course) , and the load wasn't all impacted by minor differences in neck tension.

Believe me, I'd love nothing more than to come into this thread and talk about how much better everything works now that I'm using an AMP...I still anneal everything I fire because I do believe it helps with consistency on the bench (and have a feeling of 'what if I didn't?'). I don't think it's a $1,400 paper weight, but in my experience so far, it hasn't yielded higher scores or X-counts.

Are you seeing demonstrably higher scores after annealing?

 

[Milo 2.5]

Are you seeing demonstrably higher scores after annealing?

I do not shoot competitively, but at about the same time I started annealing, a Giraud, my group size at distance did shrink. BUT, and a big but, I also upped my game as far as just what steps I was taking to accomplish all this and not just relying on quality gear and status quo.

There are very few tricks a top shooter in your game may do or know about, which separates those from us. So we need to take advantage of small gains as we can master them.
So in a nutshell, I have to say no, annealing alone may not have helped that much, but I can guarantee it has not hurt. Even with the Giraud and knowing some cases were over annealed, just a cull process kicked those rds out for short range work.

 

[Bradu]

If I had an AMP machine, I would do a test just to have another source for data. The setup time for a bench source isn't ideal when trying to anneal 10 pieces of brass for testing. The consistency of the amp is ideal for something like this. I would like to see more comparisons on this topic instead of people claiming one way or another. One reason some might not notice a big improvement is if you keep track of brass and it all has the same firings on it, that goes along with the keeping things consistent theory.

 

[ken4570tc in WY]

I just did my second hundred pieces using the salt bath method. Because the first batch didn't turn out as I would have wanted, I increased the time in the salt to twelve seconds. I know we can't judge the results by appearance but these do look better. Their in the Frankford Arsenal case dryer now. I'll be sizing these Tuesday. When I seat bullets I'll have a clue if it was an improvement and shooting this coming Friday with chronograph to get spreads and deviation will verify success or failure. I'll post my results next weekend. My brass is once fired Starline .243 for my RPR Gen 1.

 

[Dthomas3523]

My favorite part of this thread is the suggestion that the company who sells a $1300 annealer wrote the article to trash the process used by people who want to spend $50.

 

[ken4570tc in WY]

I just did my second hundred pieces using the salt bath method. Because the first batch didn't turn out as I would have wanted, I increased the time in the salt to twelve seconds. I know we can't judge the results by appearance but these do look better. Their in the Frankford Arsenal case dryer now. I'll be sizing these Tuesday. When I seat bullets I'll have a clue if it was an improvement and shooting this coming Friday with chronograph to get spreads and deviation will verify success or failure. I'll post my results next weekend. My brass is once fired Starline .243 for my RPR Gen 1.

Update: just finished reloading this batch and have to say the bullet seating was way smoother and consistent than the first time. I'll be shooting these rounds over the Magneto Speed and will report back.

 

[ken4570tc in WY]

Update: just finished reloading this batch and have to say the bullet seating was way smoother and consistent than the first time. I'll be shooting these rounds over the Magneto Speed and will report back.

Latest update....Just completed the shooting and analysis of my second hundred cases using 12 second time for annealing and cut my ES/SD numbers by half. Not single digit SD's yet but close. I would suggest, that like any method, it needs to be tinkered with and adjusted to get optimal results. Even the induction method wasn't perfect with the earliest attempts. I'm satisfied I've proven for myself that salt bath annealing does work. I'm not saying it's as consistent as induction but it is good enough for me at the price difference.

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

Latest update....Just completed the shooting and analysis of my second hundred cases using 12 second time for annealing and cut my ES/SD numbers by half. Not single digit SD's yet but close. I would suggest, that like any method, it needs to be tinkered with and adjusted to get optimal results. Even the induction method wasn't perfect with the earliest attempts. I'm satisfied I've proven for myself that salt bath annealing does work. I'm not saying it's as consistent as induction but it is good enough for me at the price difference.

What temperature are you using for 12 second mark? How is the heat migration towards the case head?

 

[ken4570tc in WY]

What temperature are you using for 12 second mark? How is the heat migration towards the case head?

My digital temperature device is kept below 945F and above 939F in a twenty pound Lee lead pot. I adjust my speed of feeding the cases to keep the temperature in that range. The molten salt level was adjusted ahead of the process to cover the neck and half the shoulder. The heat migration is controlled by a rapid quench after removing from the salt bath. Time is measured using an inexpensive digital metronome. The coloration on the cases looks near identical to what I've seen for factory brass. At this stage of load development I was testing multiple different primers including magnums. The bullet used was the Speer 70 grain TNT hollow point flat base impact coated with tungsten disulfide (Danzak). Powder charge was 40.0 grains of Accurate 4064. This load was 2.0 grains below the never exceed maximum to accommodate the range of primers. Velocities varied between 3291 and 3454 fps. The CCI BR2 primers had the lowest ten shot SD of 10.4 followed by the CCI 200's with an SD of 12.1 and the S&B LR primers with an SD of 12.2. The worst of the primers tested were: CCI 250/SD 48.0 and Win WLR/SD 84. My last eight shot string with one from each group had velocities ranging between 3395 and 3446 fps but held a sub 3/4" group at a hundred yards. I had flawless case extraction, no primer cratering or piercing and no ejector marks. Some years back, I was annealing successfully with the torch method when I was competing in Benchrest. Just a little more work with neck tension should get me in the single digit SD's consistently.

 

[whatsupdoc]

While not a true scientific test I was curious of the heat migration when I first started SBA so I painted two cases with 399 c tempilaq 3/8" below the shoulder.
Salt bath temp was 560C the first case was submerged for 15 seconds, pulled it out and there was no color indication on the tempilaq.
I then submerged the second case for 30 seconds and some of the tempilaq started to turn black on the edge closest to the shoulder.

Does this mean anything? Probably not!

 

[87stang]

I’m a bit suspect of the procedure used. I don’t salt bath anneal so I really don’t have any skin in the game. I do however deal with a lot of heat treating of metals. They were using two opposing techniques here. Annealing to get the case neck softer and quenching immediately after. One softens the materials and one hardens it. Looking over multiple instructions for SBA it does indicate dipping them in water but all the instructions I found state that is not part of the annealing process but to clean off the salt which is logical. I would think a company in the business of heat treating metals would see the issue with the procedure used. I’m not saying they are being dishonest but the quenching operation gives the optics of being a dishonest experiment.

 

[spife7980]

I’m a bit suspect of the procedure used. I don’t salt bath anneal so I really don’t have any skin in the game. I do however deal with a lot of heat treating of metals. They were using two opposing techniques here. Annealing to get the case neck softer and quenching immediately after. One softens the materials and one hardens it. Looking over multiple instructions for SBA it does indicate dipping them in water but all the instructions I found state that is not part of the annealing process but to clean off the salt which is logical. I would think a company in the business of heat treating metals would see the issue with the procedure used. I’m not saying they are being dishonest but the quenching operation gives the optics of being a dishonest experiment.

For a heat treat expert I imagine you would know that quenching doesn’t do anything to brass. Work hardens it. Heat softens it. That’s it. It’s not steel.

 

[Dolomite_Supafly]

I generally do not anneal so I do not have any experience regarding one method over another. When I do anneal I use a torch along with a case holder that looks like a finned socket to keep as much heat out of the case head. I anneal my 300 Blackout cases to prevent split case necks because I have a lot of work in those cases because I make them. After investing that much time I want to get as much life out of them. I shoot mostly low pressure loads so the primer pockets do not grow. I set my headspace using cases sized on my equipment so I do not get enough growth to worry about the case head separation, at least not like a typical chamber. So the most likely thing that will ruin a piece of brass for me is a split case neck during the sizing process.

But as I have been reading this thread here is something that popped into my head. It might be BS or not but it is what popped into my head.

People here are saying that the groups tighten up on the 2nd or 3rd sizings/firings after a full anneal. Those 2-3 sizings/firings are causing the brass to work harden some compared to the completely annealed state. And that is why the groups tend to tighten up, because the brass is slightly harder than a completely annealed state. The SBA method doesn't heat the cases as much or as completely as a completely annealed state. So perhaps using the SBA method leaves the cases similar in hardness as cases sized/fired 2-3 times after a complete anneal. Maybe the SBA method is eliminating the need to fire 2-3 times before the groups tighten up some.

Just throwing it out there. Could be complete and utter BS. Discussion is good as it shares knowledge and ideas and it is those ideas that lead to advances in the technology.

 

[spife7980]

Mine don’t shoot better after 2-3 firings.

 

[diverdon]

I can not wait for Leopold's review of Schmidt & Bender. Right after that I'll head over to the Chevy dealer to ask about Ford Trucks.

 

[87stang]

For a heat treat expert I imagine you would know that quenching doesn’t do anything to brass. Work hardens it. Heat softens it. That’s it. It’s not steel.

I never claimed to be an expert, just a lot of experience with heat treating. You learn something new everyday though when you stay humble and open minded. I didn’t realize brass didn’t harden during the quenching process. The closest I come to dealing with brass is copper nickel and that’s rare.

I also learned how cock bag internet tuff guys get online and act like a dick. It takes a tough guy to be a smart ass online and you’ve put it on full display.

 

[Huskydriver]

I never claimed to be an expert, just a lot of experience with heat treating. You learn something new everyday though when you stay humble and open minded. I didn’t realize brass didn’t harden during the quenching process. The closest I come to dealing with brass is copper nickel and that’s rare.

I also learned how cock bag internet tuff guys get online and act like a dick. It takes a tough guy to be a smart ass online and you’ve put it on full display.

At ease chief... @spife7980 is one of the most willing to help people on this sight who takes a more tactful approach to his points than most of us. You threw your heat treat bs experience out here first he called you on your false understanding of how water is used in annealing and now your playing a victim. He wasnt being a cock bag but you are

 

[87stang]

At ease chief... @spife7980 is one of the most willing to help people on this sight who takes a more tactful approach to his points than most of us. You threw your heat treat bs experience out here first he called you on your false understanding of how water is used in annealing and now your playing a victim. He wasnt being a cock bag but you are

I can fully admit a mistake on my part. It happens.
I also don’t play the victim, I don’t care enough about what’s posted online to get butthurt.
You’re right, I did make a cock bag response, and intentionally so. It illustrates a point. Smart assed responses get smart assed responses and end up nowhere. My “heat treat bs experience” and me will be just fine, we’ll still be employed tomorrow. As long as I don’t have to deal with brass apparently!

I’m not a smart as to random people and don’t stand for it in return. It’s pretty simple, curtesy goes a long.

 

[Ryridesmotox]

I'm considering this method over just a torched and drill. But I'm already getting pretty good ES and SD by accident. When are you guys typically seeing the SD and ES broaden? Like 3+ firings? 4+? I'm just working through a 200 ct lot of brass and and on my 3rd firing with them, I chronod the 2nd firings and got an SD of 9 and ES of 23 with a Caldwell chrono. I kinda figured it was a mistake and chronod 10 more, but got the same result. It has to be luck, or something. Or the brass is going to start to get too hard after this one. I may keep throwing shit over the chrono to see what happens and anneal vs not anneal stuff... see how it works out.

 

[lash]

I'm considering this method over just a torched and drill. But I'm already getting pretty good ES and SD by accident. When are you guys typically seeing the SD and ES broaden? Like 3+ firings? 4+? I'm just working through a 200 ct lot of brass and and on my 3rd firing with them, I chronod the 2nd firings and got an SD of 9 and ES of 23 with a Caldwell chrono. I kinda figured it was a mistake and chronod 10 more, but got the same result. It has to be luck, or something. Or the brass is going to start to get too hard after this one. I may keep throwing shit over the chrono to see what happens and anneal vs not anneal stuff... see how it works out.

You didn’t get lucky, you did it fine. I know better than to lay claim that the torch and drill is as consistent as a good well set up and controlled machine, but it does what I need pretty well.

Do experiment with how often you want to re-anneal. It’s educational to you and makes you comfortable with what direction you choose later. I have found that every 2-3 firings is often enough for me and I’ve gone longer without much issue sometimes. It’s the choice I made and I’m comfortable with it.

 

[Ryridesmotox]

You didn’t get lucky, you did it fine. I know better than to lay claim that the torch and drill is as consistent as a good well set up and controlled machine, but it does what I need pretty well.

Do experiment with how often you want to re-anneal. It’s educational to you and makes you comfortable with what direction you choose later. I have found that every 2-3 firings is often enough for me and I’ve gone longer without much issue sometimes. It’s the choice I made and I’m comfortable with it.

I feel like I need to clarify... I haven't even started annealing yet. I have only been considering annealing. The torches and drill or the SBA method are my 2 main choices due to cost.

 

[lash]

I feel like I need to clarify... I haven't even started annealing yet. I have only been considering annealing. The torches and drill or the SBA method are my 2 main choices due to cost.

Well, then you’re still doing it right then. Keep measuring every so often and you’ll get to decide if or when you even want to anneal.

 

[Vettepilot]

Hmmm.... well, just getting into the "precision" part of reloading myself. I've only been reloading about 2 years, and of further info, I don't compete; it's just a fun hobby.

When I first discovered salt bath annealing, I thought "Now THAT'S cool and perfect for me!!" I then made myself a very cool SBA outfit. (I make a lot of my own tools.)

Then I happened to read AMP's treatise on the subject, and got thoroughly bummed out. And there's no way whatsoever an AMP is in my personal future.

Then I discovered this thread, and it seems there might be hope for SBA after all. No posts though for over a year.

Any new info???

Vettepilot

 

[Dthomas3523]

Hmmm.... well, just getting into the "precision" part of reloading myself. I've only been reloading about 2 years, and of further info, I don't compete; it's just a fun hobby.

When I first discovered salt bath annealing, I thought "Now THAT'S cool and perfect for me!!" I then made myself a very cool SBA outfit. (I make a lot of my own tools.)

Then I happened to read AMP's treatise on the subject, and got thoroughly bummed out. And there's no way whatsoever an AMP is in my personal future.

Then I discovered this thread, and it seems there might be hope for SBA after all. No posts though for over a year.

Any new info???

Vettepilot

Some people use it and love it. Some people don’t and hate it.

It may likely not live up to AMP’s standards. But their standards could very well be higher than what is needed.

 

[Dai Bando]

Does the Salt Bath Anneal leave the carbon in the necks?

 

[Threadcutter308]

Does the Salt Bath Anneal leave the carbon in the necks?

Nope.

 

[mcfred]

I doubt it, especially if they're using potassium nitrate salt for their media. For fun, melt KNO3 and stick a wood chopstick/popsicle stick in it and watch it flare up.

*edit* TC308 beat me to it...

 

[Dai Bando]

Thanks.

 

[whatsupdoc]

I used salt bath annealing, while it appeared to work just fine it was very time consuming, a pain in the ass and somewhat dangerous depending on how seriously you take protecting your body from 500 degree centigrade liquid an inch from your skin.

I ended up building an induction annealer, it produces just as good results "probably better" and its WAY WAY safer. I can now anneal 50 223 cases in under four minutes where the salt bath annealer would take forever do do the same amount of work.

 

[ShtrRdy]

I used salt bath annealing, while it appeared to work just fine it was very time consuming, a pain in the ass and somewhat dangerous depending on how seriously you take protecting your body from 500 degree centigrade liquid an inch from your skin.

I ended up building an induction annealer, it produces just as good results "probably better" and its WAY WAY safer. I can now anneal 50 223 cases in under four minutes where the salt bath annealer would take forever do do the same amount of work.

Would you mind describing the induction annealed you built and the considerations you use to get good results?

 

[whatsupdoc]

Would you mind describing the induction annealed you built and the considerations you use to get good results?

It is a GinaEric design induction annealer with some minor changes. Depending on your mechanical and electrical skill set it is not very complex to build.
The weak link in the design is the cheap chinese induction board that is a bear to keep cool. Regardless, it has annealed a few thousand cases without any issues.

I like most use tempilaq to get my starting point but have found that when the 750F tempilaq indicates the target temperature has been reached the case neck is still too hard or rather has not been fully annealed. This only starts to be noticeable after a few firings so I no longer use the 750F number as the "standard" that this is where you need to be.

 

[Vettepilot]

Wow! Very fancy and professional looking rig! Nice job!

I too am working on one. I am making my own 48vdc power supply out of a microwave oven transformer. That has gone well. Now onto the actual annealer part which I have all the parts to do. Any info/hints you can provide would be appreciated. As you say, heat dissipation of the electronics is crucial. Feel free to PM me if we are high jacking this thread...

Is that a car door lock solenoid on your trap door??

As far as SBA. I don't understand people freaking out about the "danger". It's no worse, really, than bullet casting which is certainly a well accepted activity. Common sense safety and care is necessary, of course, but it is certainly possible to do safely.

Thanks!
Vettepilot

 

[Rocketmandb]

depending on how seriously you take protecting your body from 500 degree centigrade liquid an inch from your skin.

This is the main thing for me. Something about having a cup full of molten material open on my reloading bench just waiting to be spilled...

 

[whatsupdoc]

This is the main thing for me. Something about having a cup full of molten material open on my reloading bench just waiting to be spilled...

You need to think it through and take precautions. When I did it the heating pot was placed in a steel cookie baking sheet and both were clamped to the bench so to prevent anything falling over or spilling onto the bench or me.

 

[prickett]

It is a GinaEric design induction annealer with some minor changes. Depending on your mechanical and electrical skill set it is not very complex to build.
The weak link in the design is the cheap chinese induction board that is a bear to keep cool. Regardless, it has annealed a few thousand cases without any issues.

I like most use tempilaq to get my starting point but have found that when the 750F tempilaq indicates the target temperature has been reached the case neck is still too hard or rather has not been fully annealed. This only starts to be noticeable after a few firings so I no longer use the 750F number as the "standard" that this is where you need to be.



View attachment 7393343

How much have you sunk into your rig (if you don't mind my asking)?

Do you either sell them or if not interested in that, make the instructions available to others?

 

[prickett]

I've been reading thru this thread as I was in the process of putting together a SBA rig. Then I found the AMP document and got discouraged. A Google search for more info found this thread. Some questions I have are:

1) Does flame annealing work? I've not seen anything saying it does not. Given that, why would a different source of heat (i.e. SB instead of flame) suddenly mean the annealing process no longer works?

2) Flame temps are usually 750 F to anneal, with temps higher tending to ruin brass. But, SBA uses 1000 F which doesn't ruin brass?

I'm not trying to stir up anything. I'm just very analytical and this seems weird/illogical to me, and I'm trying to figure out why the above are true (if they are true).

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

I've been reading thru this thread as I was in the process of putting together a SBA rig. Then I found the AMP document and got discouraged. A Google search for more info found this thread. Some questions I have are:

1) Does flame annealing work? I've not seen anything saying it does not. Given that, why would a different source of heat (i.e. SB instead of flame) suddenly mean the annealing process no longer works?

2) Flame temps are usually 750 F to anneal, with temps higher tending to ruin brass. But, SBA uses 1000 F which doesn't ruin brass?

I'm not trying to stir up anything. I'm just very analytical and this seems weird/illogical to me, and I'm trying to figure out why the above are true (if they are true).

1. Yes, flame annealing works. Heat is heat as far as the metal is concerned - the issue at discussion is how that heat is applied. How concentrated, and how efficiently is the heat transferred to the brass?
2. Again, its a matter of how the heat transfers, both from the heat application medium to the brass, and along the length of the brass (ie from case neck to shoulder to case head).

 

[whatsupdoc]

How much have you sunk into your rig (if you don't mind my asking)?

Do you either sell them or if not interested in that, make the instructions available to others?

Probably cost me around $450 to build (guess).
I do not sell them, go here http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/induction-brass-annealer-redux.3908353/
for basic Instructions.


The problem is that no one has tested in a lab the results of the "home brew" annealing methods except for AMP.
Maybe a little hotter and a little longer will produce better results with SBA but we have no lab to test the results so we are guessing.


By the way propane flame tempertures are way higher than 750 F more like 2500F.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

This is purely anecdotal but I dislike how soft brand new Peterson brass is (mentioned specifically by AMP as optimal). I still use an SBA and I find 12 seconds to work perfectly fine. The brass is all normalized, I get consistent sizing and seating pressure, and the necks aren't what I would consider hard. My sized brass is all consistent and the necks come out the same size weather the third sizing or the 10th. For not working SBA sure seems to work well.

 

[prickett]

Probably cost me around $450 to build (guess).
I do not sell them, go here http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/induction-brass-annealer-redux.3908353/
for basic Instructions.


The problem is that no one has tested in a lab the results of the "home brew" annealing methods except for AMP.
Maybe a little hotter and a little longer will produce better results with SBA but we have no lab to test the results so we are guessing.


By the way propane flame tempertures are way higher than 750 F more like 2500F.

Thanks for the info!

 

[prickett]

This is purely anecdotal but I dislike how soft brand new Peterson brass is (mentioned specifically by AMP as optimal). I still use an SBA and I find 12 seconds to work perfectly fine. The brass is all normalized, I get consistent sizing and seating pressure, and the necks aren't what I would consider hard. My sized brass is all consistent and the necks come out the same size weather the third sizing or the 10th. For not working SBA sure seems to work well.

That is the kind of information I was hoping for. Given that I'm building a PID for casting lead anyway, I figure buying an additional melting pot and the salt will be a small investment. I like that the SBA would seem to be more consistent than propane (not sure if enough to make a difference though).

How many firings between annealing?

 

[ken4570tc in WY]

This is purely anecdotal but I dislike how soft brand new Peterson brass is (mentioned specifically by AMP as optimal). I still use an SBA and I find 12 seconds to work perfectly fine. The brass is all normalized, I get consistent sizing and seating pressure, and the necks aren't what I would consider hard. My sized brass is all consistent and the necks come out the same size weather the third sizing or the 10th. For not working SBA sure seems to work well.

I to have found that 12 seconds for the SB method works best for my .243 Win brass. My first go at it I tried the recommended six seconds and didn't have consistent results. The longer time yielded consistent resistance when seating bullets and much lower ES/SD's. Years ago I was using the torch flame method for match .308 brass with good results. I've not loaded and shot through all my .243 brass so don't have multiple SB annealing to give a report on overall success.

 

[spife7980]

I to have found that 12 seconds for the SB method works best for my .243 Win brass.

Have you checked for how much heat migration there is to the case head at those dwell times?

 

[Tokay444]

Just as an FYI. Salt bath annealing is used in industry/manufacturing to anneal large brass components all the time, and has been since about the 1930s, and will be for a very long time.
I use it with what I feel to be impeccable results, especially for a newbie shooter. I chose it based on my experience in industry/manufacturing and it’s cost effective nature, and knowing that my goal isn’t to completely anneal the brass into its softest “dead” state, as it seams the AMP does, but to simply take the stress out of the most heavily worked area of the case. The neck and shoulder. My brass lasts forever. I had 15 firings on LRP Alpha 6.5CM before I retired it and moved to SRP in a new barrel. That batch has exactly 10 firings on it now as well and I haven’t lost a single case. My SD/ES are certainly acceptable to me, and the accuracy and precision of my rifle far exceeds anything I thought I could do personally.
If I felt like sacrificing a case, a could even throw it on the Brinell tester and get a reading before and after, but I feel that’s moot at this point.
Those that use SBA, don’t seem to have any issues with their brass at all. In fact, there’s more threads on the neck friction increase due to the surface texture left by induction annealing causing issues with SD/ESs than there is with people struggling with their SBA setups.

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

Have you checked for how much heat migration there is to the case head at those dwell times?

What would we consider an acceptable method to measure that? Templac? laser thermometer? Would I have to measure the temp of the inside of the case with the laser, or could we assume the metal heats evenly? How far from the rim do I need to measure, and at that location, what temperature would we agree is "safe?"

I can 'tactically borrow' a laser from work and give this a bash, but I suspect my results will be worthless:
1. There's a huge difference between a .223 case and a .303 case
2. Its not like we're all running the same cases/machines
3. We'll never actually agree on what constitutes anneal quality. Someone will ask me to back up my results with my shooting, and that will quickly ruin any argument or findings I make

Still, could be a fun evening. Better than sitting inside watching thunderstorms roll through.

EDIT: Changed 'you to 'we'. I don't want to seem confrontational, I'm not.

 

[spife7980]

What would we consider an acceptable method to measure that? Templac? laser thermometer?

unless it’s a real bad ass laser it won’t work very well. I’d just smear a stripe of 450 temilaq on the outside above your dip level and see how far it turns black.

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

unless it’s a real bad ass laser it won’t work very well. I’d just smear a stripe of 450 temilaq on the outside above your dip level and see how far it turns black.

I mean, I don't blame you not trusting those gimmick forehead thermometers

I don't have any 450 at hand - but amazon says monday...

 

[prickett]

I to have found that 12 seconds for the SB method works best for my .243 Win brass.

Did you arrive at this time just by trial and error? If not, now?

 

[ken4570tc in WY]

Have you checked for how much heat migration there is to the case head at those dwell times?

I quench my brass right after the salt bath, it serves to stop the heat migration and quickly dissolve residual salt. There is no discoloration of the brass beyond about .25 inches below the shoulder. Is there a good home method to actually test the brass hardness? I'm certainly willing to sacrifice some brass to testing. I just caught the 450 Templac recommendation and will place my order today.

 

[ken4570tc in WY]

Did you arrive at this time just by trial and error? If not, now?

It was just a hunch, six seconds gave very uneven seating pressures. The twelve second batch were all consistently smooth seating with my various test bullets. I'll use the 450 Templac to test for heat migration on my next batch of annealing. I'm working with 480 pieces of brass. I'll include pictures.