Savage Kaboom at Local Range

[enichols]

Hey Hide,
I was at the rifle range this morning with my shooting partner. The line had been open for all of ten minutes when a shooter about 30 feet away from us suffered a catastrophic detonation of his rifle, a Savage in 6.5 Creedmoor. I do not know the model. Fortunately for the shooter, he suffered a relatively minor cut to his hand and some cuts to his face, but he was wearing eye pro and was not more seriously injured. Several people were struck with debris from his rifle but none were injured. Some of the debris landed next to my buddy and me. The shooter was using handloads, but could not recall his load - he didn't have it written down and was pretty shaken up by the whole affair.

Pics below. I have been trying to figure out what would cause the rifle to fail in this way. The bore was completely clear, but the barrel was launched about ten feet ahead of his bench. The cartridge case was welded into the chamber but the case head was nowhere to be found. All I can think of is that he used the wrong kind of powder in his handloads (i.e. pistol powder in a rifle case), but that is pure speculation.

Scary moment for sure.

 

[rustyinbend]

Holy Crap !!! Glad everyone was OK. I can't help thinking that anyone shooting a hand-load that doesn't know immediately what is "supposed" to be the load ... should probably be shooting factory cartridges..

 

[lash]

Fuckin’ new guy at reloading didn’t know what the fuck he was doing. Looks like pistol powder for sure. If you’re using a known 6.5 powder, you can’t load enough in there to cause that. Dumb fuck central.

 

[lash]

I hate to see that anytime, but those that want to reload need to use some modicum of intelligence and diligence.

 

[celltech]

Interesting mix of brass and primers in that mess of cartridges. Did 2 of them blow out the primer before the big boom round?

Love the gold hue on what remains of the bolt head....that brass just vapor deposited everywhere.

 

[ma smith]

Can we talk about the metalurgy of this action? WTF over.

 

[acudaowner]

glad everyone is still in one piece

 

[enichols]

Fuckin’ new guy at reloading didn’t know what the fuck he was doing. Looks like pistol powder for sure. If you’re using a known 6.5 powder, you can’t load enough in there to cause that. Dumb fuck central.

My initial thought was pistol powder as well - as you said, it would be impossible to load enough 4350, RL16, Staball, etc. into a 6.5 Creed case to make that big of a boom.

 

[abn31c]

 

[LuvDog]

What’s with the 2 cases missing primers. Were they blown out? Sure sounds like the wrong powder

 

[XLR308]

Can we talk about the metalurgy of this action? WTF over.

View attachment 8122427

The grain structure does look fairly porous to me as well, but ive never blown one up either.

 

[lash]

Dumb fuck. Just glad nobody else was hurt.

 

[hafejd30]

Definitely best case scenario

Definitely wrong powder

Still better design than Serbu even though it looks like melted pot metal

 

[Shoots 700's]

Looks a bit hot

 

[cas6969]

Which thread did he get the load data from?

 

[Kfive73]

Is that cratering I see on the other shot primers?

 

[XLR308]

Is that cratering I see on the other shot primers?

Might be a crater in the seat he was in when his asshole exploded from the shock.

Savage load testing, take one

 

[Supersubes]

Can we talk about the metalurgy of this action? WTF over.

View attachment 8122427

If the bolt was intact Id agree, but this was clearly way over pressure. Like snipers hide standard load, plus a grain or two.

 

[Pat McGroin]

Looks like some of the fired brass still has primers intact. Probably room to bump it up a grain or two.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Holy Crap !!! Glad everyone was OK. I can't help thinking that anyone shooting a hand-load that doesn't know immediately what is "supposed" to be the load ... should probably be shooting factory cartridges..

I’ll only disagree to the extent of saying that those of us who reload a LOT and a lot of calibers cannot use Memory. Which is why we have very good notes and notebooks. And in every “can” of ammo I load, also put a recipe card and date info.

But if I take out a few to go to the range… I may not know what is in a specific load.

Write everything down! Multiple copies. Mine is in pen notes hanging on reloading room wall on a clipboard. On computer. And on printout. And on cards in ammo cans.

Memory is not to be trusted with reloading.

The good news is that everyone is ok.

And new reloader? We can’t assume. Pistol powder? Maybe. Squib followed by hot load? Maybe. I’m not going to bust on the guy based on the OP’s description. Too many questions remain.

The real lesson is check, double check and triple check. Write stuff down. Save it. If you get a load from the Internet… cross check it in a book. I have 4 loading manuals from the 70’s
To 2 years ago. If I am trying something new, I can cross reference what “other” books say.

Some powders have similar numbers… make sure that the initials and the numbers are exact!

And if a load feels “wrong” stop! Aka squib. Or “hot” or pressure signs.

Glad it’s Only a gun!

Sirhr

 

[Supersubes]

What’s with the 2 cases missing primers. Were they blown out? Sure sounds like the wrong powder

Look too clean to be a blown primer. Bunch of case head swipes though.


Look at this lug imprint into the receiver abutment. Yowza!

 

[J-Fonz]

Can we talk about the metalurgy of this action? WTF over.

Did Lodge make that in cast iron?

 

[Shoots 700's]

Savage

 

[AllenOne1]

This area looks like it was flame cut. The rest of it was pure pressure ripping it apart.

Look at the dent left by the lug.

 

[cas6969]

Like snipers hide standard load, plus a grain or two.

He probably knows how to read pressure signs.

 

[Stevo86]

Interesting mix of brass and primers in that mess of cartridges. Did 2 of them blow out the primer before the big boom round?

Love the gold hue on what remains of the bolt head....that brass just vapor deposited everywhere.

They don’t look to be fired. Too clean.

 

[XLR308]

I’ll only disagree to the extent of saying that those of us who reload a LOT and a lot of calibers cannot use Memory. Which is why we have very good notes and notebooks. And in every “can” of ammo I load, also put a recipe card and date info.

But if I take out a few to go to the range… I may not know what is in a specific load.

Write everything down! Multiple copies. Mine is in pen notes hanging on reloading room wall on a clipboard. On computer. And on printout. And on cards in ammo cans.

Memory is not to be trusted with reloading.

The good news is that everyone is ok.

And new reloader? We can’t assume. Pistol powder? Maybe. Squib followed by hot load? Maybe. I’m not going to bust on the guy based on the OP’s description. Too many questions remain.

The real lesson is check, double check and triple check. Write stuff down. Save it. If you get a load from the Internet… cross check it in a book. I have 4 loading manuals from the 70’s
To 2 years ago. If I am trying something new, I can cross reference what “other” books say.

Some powders have similar numbers… make sure that the initials and the numbers are exact!

And if a load feels “wrong” stop! Aka squib. Or “hot” or pressure signs.

Glad it’s Only a gun!

Sirhr

Looks like what magnum pistol powder, namely H110 and 296 can do in downgraded loads.
Dude is damn lucky he isnt a unicorn with the bolt sticking out of his forehead.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

He probably knows how to read pressure signs.

None of the cases I can see in the OP's photo look egregious. Not massively flattened, cratered, punctured.

Are they warm? Yes. But about what I would expect from a high-pressure cartridge like any 6.5.

I don't understand the two 'missing' primers, though. Two that were in the box but not reloaded? Is there a story there.

Could he have had a bit of powder hang-up in a measure? That happens. Cartridge one gets an 80 percent charge. Cartridge 2 gets a 120 percent charge. If you don't have a full casing, you may not notice. That's why it's a good idea to put your 'loading block' under a light before starting to seat bullets and 'look' to see if all the powder looks roughly the same level. Can't exactly tell. But if you see one that is definitely low and one that is definitely high... well, that's a giveaway. And it does happen!

Also if using a powder measure like a RCBS drum... Double or triple 'click' the handle to ensure anything is dislodged and falls into the case. My 'down' motion on the manual powder measure is VERY positive. Nothing is going to stay behind. Click up -- positive. Wait a second for powder to drop. Then bring down like you mean it. Then lift up a fraction and click it again. Like you mean it. That will dislodge any powder.

Little things like that can make a big difference.

But unless I am missing something... those primers/cases don't look dangerously over-pressured to me.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Stevo86]

None of the cases I can see in the OP's photo look egregious. Not massively flattened, cratered, punctured.

Are they warm? Yes. But about what I would expect from a high-pressure cartridge like any 6.5.

I don't understand the two 'missing' primers, though. Two that were in the box but not reloaded? Is there a story there.

Could he have had a bit of powder hang-up in a measure? That happens. Cartridge one gets an 80 percent charge. Cartridge 2 gets a 120 percent charge. If you don't have a full casing, you may not notice. That's why it's a good idea to put your 'loading block' under a light before starting to seat bullets and 'look' to see if all the powder looks roughly the same level. Can't exactly tell. But if you see one that is definitely low and one that is definitely high... well, that's a giveaway. And it does happen!

Also if using a powder measure like a RCBS drum... Double or triple 'click' the handle to ensure anything is dislodged and falls into the case. My 'down' motion on the manual powder measure is VERY positive. Nothing is going to stay behind. Click up -- positive. Wait a second for powder to drop. Then bring down like you mean it. Then lift up a fraction and click it again. Like you mean it. That will dislodge any powder.

Little things like that can make a big difference.

But unless I am missing something... those primers/cases don't look dangerously over-pressured to me.

Cheers,

Sirhr

Agreed

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Looks like what magnum pistol powder, namely H110 and 296 can do in downgraded loads.
Dude is damn lucky he isnt a unicorn with the bolt sticking out of his forehead.

Again.... we need more info, which we may never get.

What was the load? Too many variables. In a 6.5 a squib with a bullet stuck in the barrel could also do that...

So can't read too much into it without a lot more info.

But it's a good lesson and comments above all remind folks that we are playing with fire. Literally. So being OCD is a plus.

Sirhr

PS. Forgot to mention 'cleanliness' as another factor in reloading. Cluttered benches, unmarked cans of stuff, powder poured back into the wrong container... multiple measures lying around... I got flamed a couple of years ago for 'chiding' someone's bench that looked like a hoarder house. Fine, he probably produces fine ammo and hasn't blowed up yet. And probably never will. But all this is about being organized and precise. Not just on the range at 1000 yards. It all starts with perfect repeatability from case cleaning to finished cartridge. Then again, I have sort of an OCD thing when it comes to loading. So... maybe it's just me.

 

[XLR308]

Again.... we need more info, which we may never get.

What was the load? Too many variables. In a 6.5 a squib with a bullet stuck in the barrel could also do that...

So can't read too much into it without a lot more info.

But it's a good lesson and comments above all remind folks that we are playing with fire. Literally. So being OCD is a plus.

Sirhr

PS. Forgot to mention 'cleanliness' as another factor in reloading. Cluttered benches, unmarked cans of stuff, powder poured back into the wrong container... multiple measures lying around... I got flamed a couple of years ago for 'chiding' someone's bench that looked like a hoarder house. Fine, he probably produces fine ammo and hasn't blowed up yet. And probably never will. But all this is about being organized and precise. Not just on the range at 1000 yards. It all starts with perfect repeatability from case cleaning to finished cartridge. Then again, I have sort of an OCD thing when it comes to loading. So... maybe it's just me.

Its not just you ive been that way since i was a kid, i still line things in rows certain ways and know if someone has screwed around with things.
Not that long i spent an hour or so sorting some brass i had stored by weight into rows and wife thought it be funny to knock them over,
I didnt loose my cool but from the look on my face she retreated back to the bedroom.

 

[lash]

None of the cases I can see in the OP's photo look egregious. Not massively flattened, cratered, punctured.

Are they warm? Yes. But about what I would expect from a high-pressure cartridge like any 6.5.

I don't understand the two 'missing' primers, though. Two that were in the box but not reloaded? Is there a story there.

Could he have had a bit of powder hang-up in a measure? That happens. Cartridge one gets an 80 percent charge. Cartridge 2 gets a 120 percent charge. If you don't have a full casing, you may not notice. That's why it's a good idea to put your 'loading block' under a light before starting to seat bullets and 'look' to see if all the powder looks roughly the same level. Can't exactly tell. But if you see one that is definitely low and one that is definitely high... well, that's a giveaway. And it does happen!

Also if using a powder measure like a RCBS drum... Double or triple 'click' the handle to ensure anything is dislodged and falls into the case. My 'down' motion on the manual powder measure is VERY positive. Nothing is going to stay behind. Click up -- positive. Wait a second for powder to drop. Then bring down like you mean it. Then lift up a fraction and click it again. Like you mean it. That will dislodge any powder.

Little things like that can make a big difference.

But unless I am missing something... those primers/cases don't look dangerously over-pressured to me.

Cheers,

Sirhr

I don’t disagree with your post, but again, typical 6.5 powders, like H4350, Staball, etc., use 40+ grains as a typical charge. This leaves little room for an 80% overcharge.

Unless he had a squib, which could happen, this a still an example of poor loading habits. Even a squib is an example of poor loading habits, as you allude to above.

I’m not trying to be a dick (it comes naturally), but this is why you read before you do, you check and double check, and you create good habits that you follow.

Lord help me if I fuck up in the future.

 

[Freediver111]

Local guy a few years ago did something similar with a savage rifle in .338 Lapua. Barrel was split 4 ways, most of the receiver blew up and he almost lost an eye. His hand needed more than a few stitches.

I always knew he was a dumb fuck, so when the cause turned out to be the fact he accidentally used pistol powder in his reloads, it wasn’t a shock.

 

[CK1.0]

Wrong node?

 

[W54/XM-388]

That is an impressive amount of destruction.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Hey Hide,
I was at the rifle range this morning with my shooting partner. The line had been open for all of ten minutes when a shooter about 30 feet away from us suffered a catastrophic detonation of his rifle, a Savage in 6.5 Creedmoor. I do not know the model. Fortunately for the shooter, he suffered a relatively minor cut to his hand and some cuts to his face, but he was wearing eye pro and was not more seriously injured. Several people were struck with debris from his rifle but none were injured. Some of the debris landed next to my buddy and me. The shooter was using handloads, but could not recall his load - he didn't have it written down and was pretty shaken up by the whole affair.

Pics below. I have been trying to figure out what would cause the rifle to fail in this way. The bore was completely clear, but the barrel was launched about ten feet ahead of his bench. The cartridge case was welded into the chamber but the case head was nowhere to be found. All I can think of is that he used the wrong kind of powder in his handloads (i.e. pistol powder in a rifle case), but that is pure speculation.

Scary moment for sure. View attachment 8122402

Sir:

Any chance of getting more info or is the owner long gone and out-of-touch?

There are probably some good lessons going to come out of this if more info was available.

Just wondering. Thanks for posting this.

Sirhr

 

[TheBigCountry]

Local guy a few years ago did something similar with a savage rifle in .338 Lapua. Barrel was split 4 ways, most of the receiver blew up and he almost lost an eye. His hand needed more than a few stitches.

I always knew he was a dumb fuck, so when the cause turned out to be the fact he accidentally used pistol powder in his reloads, it wasn’t a shock.

Was that at Manatee? There was a guy there who left his rod in the Savage 338 he was shooting and blew it to pieces

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I don’t disagree with your post, but again, typical 6.5 powders, like H4350, Staball, etc., use 40+ grains as a typical charge. This leaves little room for an 80% overcharge.

Unless he had a squib, which could happen, this a still an example of poor loading habits. Even a squib is an example of poor loading habits, as you allude to above.

I’m not trying to be a dick (it comes naturally), but this is why you read before you do, you check and double check, and you create good habits that you follow.

Lord help me if I fuck up in the future.

Lash, you are right on.

And I wasn’t thinking 80 percent overcharge. Sorry if I didn’t write that clearly.

My thought was that if a few grains hang up in a measure, you can have an 80 percent load, which will fire fine (if low) followed by a 120 percent charge. If powder hangs up in the feed tube and drops with the next full charge.

Another loading tip… make sure you screw in the right little clear plastic green feed tube. And that it is spotlessly clean and doesn’t have oil in it or bug spit or something that can hang up powder.

But you are on point as usual!

Sirhr

 

[RTH1800]

Detonation. Low charge of slow powder. Flashes across the surface, moves bullet into rifling. Powder detonates, Kaboom!
Marginal design for cheap manufacture. Low quality metal = exactly what we see here.

 

[hlee]

My reloading bench often looks like a hobo has moved into my garage. But, it gets organized and cleaned before any loading is done.

And, using a chargemaster means never “accidentally” being 20% over. That’s 8+ grains on a 40 grain charge. I don’t think even that could be done in a creedmoor. A tenth over or under? Sure, if not paying attention to the scale. A grain or more? Nope, not without entering a wrong number.

Wrong powder? Yeah, that could be a thing, and probably the most likely cause.

The cases without primers could just be cases that never got loaded and are in the box to stay with the rest of the lot- such as it is.

And, I agree that you don’t- necessarily- need to know the specifics of the load in order to take them to the range. If that were a requirement, factory ammunition wouldn’t be a thing. But, you should have record of the load(s). Mine are written down on the box(s), and in a log book, and saved on a computer. A charge series being tested may be labeled 1-5 (or whatever) at the range and the data all matched back up at the house. I wouldn’t put too much weight on the guy not knowing the specifics of the load.

 

[Freediver111]

Was that at Manatee? There was a guy there who left his rod in the Savage 338 he was shooting and blew it to pieces

No, I’m in Grant County, Oregon. Small rural area between Bend and Boise.

 

[TheBigCountry]

No, I’m in Grant County, Oregon. Small rural area between Bend and Boise.

Shoot I thought you was talking about one in FL. Eerily familiar they both were Savage 338s

 

[10ring1]

Lash, you are right on.

And I wasn’t thinking 80 percent overcharge. Sorry if I didn’t write that clearly.

My thought was that if a few grains hang up in a measure, you can have an 80 percent load, which will fire fine (if low) followed by a 120 percent charge. If powder hangs up in the feed tube and drops with the next full charge.

Another loading tip… make sure you screw in the right little clear plastic green feed tube. And that it is spotlessly clean and doesn’t have oil in it or bug spit or something that can hang up powder.

But you are on point as usual!

Sirhr

Quick visual comparison of.charged cartridge will show this significant overcharge with rifle powder

 

[Freediver111]

Shoot I thought you was talking about one in FL. Eerily familiar they both were Savage 338s

Maybe there’s a link with savage .338 lapua owners. I hate to say that as I do own a savage action that I went full retard on, and it’s a phenomenal custom rifle, but so dumb considering I saved $600 over just buying a custom action and going to town. That was a long time ago. Lots have changed since then.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Savage actions are anything but light. Lots of metal. It took a special rule change to allow the Savage Strikers to make weight in IHMSA.

But, I had a strange occurrence happen on the loading bench a couple days ago. Loading 6GT. My loads run towards the light side of book recommendations providing the primer/powder/bullet combination provide acceptable accuracy. Well, I charged a case and it all but overflowed of Varget. Thought I double charged it so poured it out and recharged, same thing. Issue, ground walnut husks had stuck to the bottom of the case. Forcing a bullet into that mess and firing would have certainly caused an over pressure load. For the fellow the OP referenced, something along this might have cause the blowup. However, that's a lot of blowup.

So, if this was my problem, I would pull the rest of the bullets, and discard the powder. And, check each case to assure the the cases are free of any obstructions. And, when recharging, make sure each charged case has the powder at the same level in the case. But of course, I do this anyway. (but that 6GT case is a real puzzle. Even ran it through a decaying die after cleaning and before deburring)

 

[RTH1800]

. (but that 6GT case is a real puzzle. Even ran it through a decaying die after cleaning and before deburring)

Gotta love those decaying dies.
A lot of pot metal, poorly assembled, does not equal strength.

 

[Holliday]

My reloading bench often looks like a hobo has moved into my garage. But, it gets organized and cleaned before any loading is done.

Same here.

I log everything and take pictures of the powder used, etc with my iphone (airplane mode). I snap pics of the load I punch in, too. When I do ladders I mark each round, punch in the weight, snap a pic, hit dispense and fill. When I do 3 or more shots per charge I use the auto feature and just take one shot of the first round, per load.

I double and triple check everything. Powder gets drained and back to the storage bin after use. If anything ever does go wrong, I have more than enough info to figure out what the cause was. I even snap a pic of the competition shell holder I use when sizing.

So far I have not blown anything up….

 

[memilanuk]

Can we talk about the metalurgy of this action? WTF over.

View attachment 8122427

So... long ago and far away, I was able to tour the factory a few times. At their test range there was a rack of fully assembled guns from across the entire product line, all slated for destructive testing - aka 'Death Row'. Including (at the time) a row of 110BAs in .338LM. Those actions were supposedly rated for 130k psi... I asked "how the hell do you plan to blow one of *those* up?!?" The answer... "Probably fill the case with Blue Dot and sit a bullet on top."

FWIW the failure mode was supposed to look a lot like what happened here.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I don't see how he didn't know the load. I was taught to write Everything down and label my boxes, which I do. Had to be wrong powder and the guy just had no clue. Lucky he's not dead

 

[enichols]

Sir:

Any chance of getting more info or is the owner long gone and out-of-touch?

There are probably some good lessons going to come out of this if more info was available.

Just wondering. Thanks for posting this.

Sirhr

Unfortunately, after the incident the shooter threw the shards of the rifle (except for the receiver) in the garbage, packed his gear up and left. I had never seen him before at the range and don't know him at all.