Rifle Scopes Scope Failures at F-Class Worlds

[Tomokochan]

Read on another forum and confirmed by second source that there were 3 ( maybe 4 ) of the Vortex Golden Eagle scopes that failed at the F-Class Worlds this month in Canada. Also one older NF and one age unknown March. Anyone else got any info - especially about the Vortex failings ? I know lower end Vortex have suspect QC but was hoping that the GE would be nearer Razor 2 or AMG level of quality. Sadly best warranty on the planet is cold comfort when at a match ( esp. the World Championship ) or on a once-in-lifetime hunt.

 

[squib]

Were the nature of the failures weather related? Watched some footage online.

 

[mrbig]

where did you hear this,,I asked around and nobody that was there heard anything about any bad scopes,,only bad conditions and crazy wind switches,

 

[Hairy Biker]

Same. Tricky conditions but no scope failures big enough to have people talking at the time that I have heard. I am waiting on feedback from some competitors who were actually there and not sitting on the Internet.

 

[KWilson]

The original forum poster (not this one) is trolling.

 

[Bill Larson]

Read on another forum and confirmed by second source that there were 3 ( maybe 4 ) of the Vortex Golden Eagle scopes that failed at the F-Class Worlds this month in Canada. Also one older NF and one age unknown March. Anyone else got any info - especially about the Vortex failings ? I know lower end Vortex have suspect QC but was hoping that the GE would be nearer Razor 2 or AMG level of quality. Sadly best warranty on the planet is cold comfort when at a match ( esp. the World Championship ) or on a once-in-lifetime hunt.

RUMORS.............. BAD INFO......... BAD POST....
bill larson

 

[Tomokochan]

Bill Larson and others - I find it offensive be accused of trolling as I am most certainly not. The thread where this story first appeared is: https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...ecision-Rifles

A number of contributors were there and are members of Team Canada who use the scope in question.

Lastly while not an unreserved apologist for Vortex, I do own three - one Golden Eagle and two of their very fine Razor II HD models - so I am hardly a simple basher of the brand either.

Really, I expected better discussion from what used to be the best forum online. Sadly it is now a "burn the witch" group.

Bob

 

[Tomokochan]

The original forum poster (not this one) is trolling.

Being impolite does not change facts. https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/72-Target-and-Precision-Rifles

Several contributors were there and are members of Team Canada

 

[Poorboyr]

I agree with you. There are way too many people on this forum purely out there for witch hunting.

 

[Hairy Biker]

This thread can go south very quickly. For the record, I have spoken to someone who was there and I believe his response. Firstly, the weather change affected a lot of people and that will give a lot of keyboard commentators the option to blame equipment failures over conditions.

Apparently there was one recorded Vortex fail on the British side. This was replaced with his spare scope. There were no others that he was aware of.

I cannot see the Canadian post - it is locked.

 

[Tomokochan]

I cannot see the Canadian post - it is locked.

It is unfortunate that you cannot access the Canadian thread - there is good, civil, discourse from people who were there. The tally of confirmed fails is:

• Sightron SIII 10-50 "(stacking) click click click still shot low 4 ring one more click pop's out the top high 4, we switched it for the scope on my rifle." Quoted from team member who was there
• Vortex 3 multiple issues
• Nightforce Comp 1 erector
• March 1 stacking. "I was a shooter in F Open with the Canadian team. My March 8-80 went on me in the Nationals while I was 1 point out of first. it started going on the first of the two remaining relays of the championship. The windage stopped tracking properly. At first I thought it was my lousy wind calling. When I shot the last relay at 900m it really went. It would not track at all and then it would jump, I stopped shooting the relay. While the fellow I was shooting with continued shooting, I checked the tracking and it would not move while adjusting and suddenly jump to either right or left" Quoted from team member who was there

What really annoys me is the closed minded attitude of people who because their brand is criticised become at best defensive and at worst rude and aggressive. Here is what I own: NF ATACR x2 S+B PMii x2 Razor II HD x2 Kahles 624i, Sightron SVSS, Golden Eagle, Bushnell Tactical DMR and DMR ii x7 or maybe 8 ( awesome value !! ) and you know what ? They can all fail. Serious shooters consider failure rates as well as many other factors when buying glass - sure it is not an absolute predictor of "will my scope fail" but it is one set of data to consider. If you blindly want to chant (insert your favorite brand name) then, really, you do yourselves a disservice and lack credibility amongst serious aficionados of the shooting sports.


.

 

[Hairy Biker]

No. We want the truth. This is useful but different to what was observed by an non-Canadian participant.

Thank you for posting; I shall follow up and report.

 

[scharfschutze762]

No. We want the truth. This is useful but different to what was observed by an non-Canadian participant.

Thank you for posting; I shall follow up and report.

No you dont want the truth. your a March fanboy and any thread that involves March you have to be involved in to stick up for them like you have a vested interest..If March wasnt mentioned you wouldnt even be in this thread.

 

[Clearlight]

I sold my Sightron 50x due to elevation issues . Interested to hear more
about the Vortex issues , quite a few are turning up at my local range
but haven't heard of a failure in my neck o the woods .

According to an ex F World Champ I'm in comms with , there were some
pretty difficult conditions to deal with ; unpredictable wind cycles and
flags running the opposite way to mirage a lot .

 

[Clearlight]

Sharfshutz , are you in retail ? if so , what brands do you sell and
do you offer discounts to hide members ?

 

[Hairy Biker]

No you dont want the truth. your a March fanboy and any thread that involves March you have to be involved in to stick up for them like you have a vested interest..If March wasnt mentioned you wouldnt even be in this thread.

Well no. But thanks for your useful input. Regardless of what brands were involved my preference is for the true story to be represented. Since there is a difference between the Canada story and other countries let's do some myth busting.

 

[scharfschutze762]

Sharfshutz , are you in retail ? if so , what brands do you sell and
do you offer discounts to hide members ?

No sorry not in retail and If you were someone important you wouldnt be asking for a discount of whatever you fancy..

 

[JMcBurn]

No sorry not in retail and If you were someone important you wouldnt be asking for a discount of whatever you fancy..

That is a really dickish comment, no need to escalate. So was your previous one.

That is all.

 

[Hairy Biker]

The word back from the guys involved at the competition is that the Internet is blowing all what happened out of proportion.

Seems a case of Chillax is in order.

 

[KWilson]

The word back from the guys involved at the competition is that the Internet is blowing all what happened out of proportion.

Seems a case of Chillax is in order.

Indeed. Take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Poorboyr]

What!? I thought everything I read on the Internet was fact.....

 

[Lowlight]

Why i made the https://www.snipershide.com/why-snipe-the-messenger/ post

shit breaks, it happens all the time. We see it every competition and every class.

beecause you hapoen to own product "X" and it works for you, does not mean serial number 100+ off yours wont go down.

only people not paying attention get upset about failures, every failure is a learning experience

remember tbe members make a forum good or bad, if you dont like the tone you might be tge problem

 

[sharac]

A friends Bender (5-45) failed (reticle went AWOL) after (and it was already twice in a factory due to parallax issues) few shots on Friday at Kahles Cup Austria and he packed up and went home after 3h drive? So now everyone who owns Bender should toss them into garbage bin? Their QC is shit? Their repair service is shit? Dealer is shit? On what sample of one?

Relax and stop moaning most of you babyhandle your scopes anyway and when they break there is shitload of "surprise". Hard use WILL make ANY brand fail sooner or later its just the matter of right force being applied to the wrong part at the wrong time aaand its gone... That's why good warranty is a must or you simply take a risk that it will die on you after xy years and if $/xy is acceptable to you you buy or you don't. Somehow you expect a precision instrument to last for 10 years+ in rather rough conditions while you accept a rough device like cars break down almost yearly and i'm not talking about light bulbs...

Granted its true some fanboys like to parrot how certain brand is shit and others are bulletproof but those are easy to spot and ignore. There might be some problems due to "rich .gov tenders" that make companies arrogant and underestimate civilian market but sooner or later they get bitten in the ass by such attitude especially in the US (EU market is miniscule in comparison).

 

[Deleted member 10043]

The cross winds will flat out fuck up a Golden Eagle.

 

[phlegm]

The cross winds will flat out fuck up a Golden Eagle.

Every time winds during a match are more sporty than usual, there are tons of rumors of scopes going down. Not surprisingly, those same scopes are at the next match and no longer in question.

 

[jsthntn247]

When your a top level Fclass shooter with a solid 20 shot half moa gun at 1k, you know when shit ain't right with the scope. I don't give a damn what the wind is doing. I had a Sightron a few years back that would throw a 9 if I turned the dials during a relay then the next shot go right back where I dialed it to go. I changed to a NF BR scope and no more problems, I now have a March and no more problems, not saying that they couldn't go South at any moment but it was a scope issue and was easy to discern from wind or mirage. Just like Frank said, scopes are mechanical and can fail, just hopefully not when your leading World's.

 

[morganlamprecht]

I take very few people's claims of failures at a match seriously with out follow up verification...I've seen lots of scopes have issues "during a match" and magically work fine when later retested on the range

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I was being facitious...

 

[Steel+Killer]

Take this for what it's worth....I ordered a brand new Vortex Golden Eagle from Midway (mounted in a SPUHR) and I couldn't get it to hold zero let alone try a tracking test with it. I thought something was wrong with my rifle at first so I put my other known good scope back on it just to see what was going on and it was back to shooting well under 1 MOA. With the GE it was all over the place 2-3 MOA. I sent it back to Midway and got a refund. I have no axe to grind I have a RZ GEN 2 and a PST GEN 2 that perform very well. I just wanted to share my experience with a Vortex Golden Eagle scope.

 

[Lowlight]

I got an email this AM about some of the UK guys and their Golden Eagles ...

There was no failiures with the UK scopes, one person did take it off to compare it to an older, known scope, but that was not the problem. His barrel was loose..

Goes to show you, as someone said, while these failures happen every class or competition, until verfied you have to take it with a grain of salt.

The scope is the weakest link in the system and is the first place to look when a problem appears. However in at least one case the barrel on the rifle came loose. I have seen that happen before and have heard about it happening more than once. A lot of guys trying to get benchrest accuracy think the barrels should be on with a minimium amount of torque and that just doesn't work as advertised.

 

[Clearlight]

I'm waiting to hear back from a UK team member , ( Shaun ) who was
running a Golden Eagle . He replaced it with a 10 - 60 March from the
UK distributor and carried on . The loose barrel guy was running an NF , will
update when he guys in the UK wake up and mail me back .

 

[Rob01]

I got an email this AM about some of the UK guys and their Golden Eagles ...

There was no failiures with the UK scopes, one person did take it off to compare it to an older, known scope, but that was not the problem. His barrel was loose..

Goes to show you, as someone said, while these failures happen every class or competition, until verfied you have to take it with a grain of salt.

The scope is the weakest link in the system and is the first place to look when a problem appears. However in at least one case the barrel on the rifle came loose. I have seen that happen before and have heard about it happening more than once. A lot of guys trying to get benchrest accuracy think the barrels should be on with a minimium amount of torque and that just doesn't work as advertised.

Got guys on Facebook pages now using this thread to show that Vortex has more returns than anyone else. LOL Unbelievable that some people don't want to look into a situation more before jumping to conclusions. Especially that the discussion was about a Razor II which have a very good track record.

 

[Clearlight]

Indeed . Just got a comm from U.K., shooter concerned is not sure if
the barrel is part of the problem , as well as an issue with the Vortex scope .
At 400 rounds , it looks pretty bad under a bore scope . Optic is getting
tested on another rifle soon : if it's still iffy and has an problem I'm sure
the retailer will replace it .

 

[Mormegil87]

Got guys on Facebook pages now using this thread to show that Vortex has more returns than anyone else. LOL Unbelievable that some people don't want to look into a situation more before jumping to conclusions. Especially that the discussion was about a Razor II which have a very good track record.

This. I would be all over Vortex Gen 2 Razors for all of my competitions/ELR rigs (3) but for the deals I've found on S&Bs. Two of which I found used and one with a discount cert picked up at a competition. I would be very hard pressed to say anything negative about Vortex, especially their Razor series. That company has done a ton for this community and my home state. Sometimes people just need to find something to complain about and will let that need cloud their judgement. It's unfortunate.

 

[Steel+Killer]

I don't care how good a product is a lemon is going to slip through every once in a while and that's pretty much what I chalked up my Golden Eagle experience as.

 

[supercorndogs]

Got guys on Facebook pages now using this thread to show that Vortex has more returns than anyone else. LOL Unbelievable that some people don't want to look into a situation more before jumping to conclusions. Especially that the discussion was about a Razor II which have a very good track record.

Facebook. The the fact killer. The place where any idiot can go get 1000 other idiots to validate his incorrect bullshit. I stay away from that shit hole. I feel sorry for you guys that have to promote stuff over there. Anyone smart is more worried about what they do once it breaks. But I guess if someone just bought it to say they have it, then their need for validation makes more sense.

 

[Lowlight]

It's a volume thing,

Right now, even in classes, there are usually more Vortex Scopes on the line than any other scope. (I can't talk about the F Class Nationals) So when you see 2 or 3 Vortex scopes going down, it's usually the cheaper models. But since there are more out there you see it more often. The one class we had, the majority of scopes on the line were Vortex, but the company with the most problems that class was Leupold. To me that is a red flag...

When you have more problems with less representation, you have isssue. But Vortex has reached a point where they are usually the majority, so any problems will by default will start with them.

 

[Hairy Biker]

This thread, and the comments about its impact on FB, has been niggling me. Then it dawned, I had read this type of exchange before in the Old English poem Beowulf. Exactly the same exchanges in pre 975 AD are still happening on the Interweb. Translation follows (it is better in its original spoken form).

Beowulf spake, bairn of Ecgtheow:—
“What a deal hast uttered, dear my Unferth,
drunken with beer, of Breca now,
told of his triumph! Truth I claim it,
that I had more of might in the sea
than any man else, more ocean-endurance.
We twain had talked, in time of youth,
and made our boast, — we were merely boys,
striplings still, — to stake our lives
far at sea: and so we performed it.​