Hi everyone I’m asking for suggestions I’m building a 12.5 inch ar15 pistol for SHTF I’m stuck on what optic to run I plan on using night vision and IR laser setup but can’t make my mind up on running a eotech red dot with Magnifier or going with a LVPO with a offset RMR or a holosun 508T v2 any suggestions would be greatly appreciated
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Night Vision SHTF rifle
- Thread starter Coltonlrs
- Start date
M4 configuration, KAC, LMT or Colt, with Aimpoint, zeroed at 50 yards, KAC 600 yard BUIS.
All the cool kids are zeroing at 33 yards!
Fine you will get shot in the back by some tard on the 50 yard line at your local range and he will laugh and say "Sorry" to you as he picks up your SHTF rifle.
By the time you need a magnifier, you'll have run out of useful range on a 12.5 build. For that barrel length I think an EOTech by itself is great.
Yes, I know everyone can hit at 800 yards with their AR pistol, I'm referring to useful range as maintaining enough velocity to get an expanding bullet to perform as intended.
Yes, I know everyone can hit at 800 yards with their AR pistol, I'm referring to useful range as maintaining enough velocity to get an expanding bullet to perform as intended.
Eotech EXPS 3-2 with G33/QD mount (magnifier mounted only when needed). Zero it at 50, dead on at 200 and the second dot in the reticle provides a hold for 400. Removing the magnifier should leave you room for a PVS-14. On the rail, run a PEQ or similar device at 12 o’clock and Surefire mini-scout on the side. That’s really all you need for a fighting carbine. BUIS are your choice.
You could go LPVO but then would need a heavier NV clip-on device plus make the set up heavier overall; not ideal IMO.
You could go LPVO but then would need a heavier NV clip-on device plus make the set up heavier overall; not ideal IMO.
I thought the choice was obvious.... Just me? Oh ok then...
Thank you all for your input I appreciate it another optic choice that was suggested to was running a leupold LCO with the leupold Devo the LCO is night vision capabilities and then the Devo is a 6x power for identifying targets at distance and range finding any thoughts
On a serious note tho, in a SHTF situation your chances of meaningfully engaging a target beyond 300 yards is pretty slim. EOTech is virtually bomb proof and with a G33 you will be able to achieve effective fire at 300 yards. You want something fast. I run a LVPO for carbine competition, but we engage targets all the way out to 600 yards so the extra magnification is needed. When I finish my SHTF build (300 blackout pisol build; suppressed with 9" barrel), I fully plan on slapping a NVIS compatible EOTech on there with a G33.
I like my eotech exps3 on mine. Just make sure you carry spare batteries. Both of mine are always dead when I go to use em.
Your 10 pound 12.5 pistol is gonna make you hella popular at the local gun range.
I say a LPVO WITH a magnifier AND an Eotech AND an offset RMR and offset Holosun, because...titties!
So the only reason for a magnifier is to properly identify targets at distance not really for engagement of targets lets be honest if a target is 400 yards away you have time to leave the area not begin in a gun fight is a lot better than being in one but to be able to see threats that are at distance is a good thing and your average lpvo 20oz plus or minus so if you can do math you can see the numbers of both setup just saying
I thought about going Eotech route for my NV use, but the battery life was a solid pass for me. If you’re truly talking a SHTF rifle, then it should be something with battery life in years vs hours.
I went with the Sig Romeo 4S on a Unity Tactical FAST mount. The 4S looks great under NV, and you can change reticles. Designed by Sig, assembled in Oregon and made by Holosun. It doesn’t feel or seem cheap at all.
I went with the Sig Romeo 4S on a Unity Tactical FAST mount. The 4S looks great under NV, and you can change reticles. Designed by Sig, assembled in Oregon and made by Holosun. It doesn’t feel or seem cheap at all.
Like you said battery life is very important that why I’m looking at the leupold LCO then running the devo with it to identify threats at distance total weight with that setup is roughly 22oz
After you actually go shoot at night with NV you will quickly realize that you want your night vision on your helmet and a laser and Illuminator on your rifle and a red dot on your pistol... you really don’t want your night vision on your Gun for close in work...
If you need magnification to identify threats, carry a small set of 10x binos. If they are far away enough to need magnification, you have time and distance. Also, if you need mag to engage, probably better off to get out of dodge or stay concealed anyway. The more you engage, the higher chances it'll be your last engagement.
The LCO is known for parallax issues if that means anything to you. Hence why it's not a very popular optic. The DEVO has a very small window to look through. Also not ideal.
It's your money, but if the system worked so well, you would see more of them.
Why is everyone so wrapped around the axles about the battery life of an EOTech? NODs devour batteries.
And if shit has really hit the fan, do you think you're more likely to find AA, C123, or CR2032 batteries?
I hope you don't plan on doing ID through a 3x with NODs.
And if shit has really hit the fan, do you think you're more likely to find AA, C123, or CR2032 batteries?
I hope you don't plan on doing ID through a 3x with NODs.
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So we’re assuming 5.56 for this build?
For SHTF I don’t want moving parts swinging magnifiers around. Don’t want batteries I probably won’t be able to find on dead bodies (if I’m lucky enough not to be a dead body). Etc.
I’d go ACOG. Probably TA33 crosshair, maybe look at the 7.62x39 and .308 reticle to see if they match up better ballistically? I’d probably just do the 5.56. For 1-200m it’s gonna be way more thanclose enough.
For SHTF I don’t want moving parts swinging magnifiers around. Don’t want batteries I probably won’t be able to find on dead bodies (if I’m lucky enough not to be a dead body). Etc.
I’d go ACOG. Probably TA33 crosshair, maybe look at the 7.62x39 and .308 reticle to see if they match up better ballistically? I’d probably just do the 5.56. For 1-200m it’s gonna be way more thanclose enough.
SHTF is all about training and none about gear.
Carry on.
Carry on.
Personally, I highly recommend an Aimpoint for this application. They are bombproof, NV compatible and can run for 5yrs constant on with one battery. Aimpoint + one extra battery.
if you think you are still gonna be running around playing Rambo 10yrs from now then you have bigger problems to worry about than the battery life of your optic.
if you think you are still gonna be running around playing Rambo 10yrs from now then you have bigger problems to worry about than the battery life of your optic.
but training doesn’t look cool hanging on your wall in your gun room
This. But gear is the fun part and we're mostly a bunch of gear heads.
Also, I agree red dot on pistol, laser/illuminator on long gun. I really think it becomes quite obvious when one takes the aforementioned training.
Aimpoint or MRO, would be some options. Both have massive battery life. Idk what shtf is. Eotech is good enough for government work. Magnifier is fine, but it’s not really going to help with extending range out. It’s more or less to see your target better, so you’d have to decide if that’s worth the extra weight. That said, you’re not going to be greatly effective at 300 plus yards with a 12.5 inch barrel.
If that’s the build plan, I would like at what was suggested above (triji acog) or a one of the three I mentioned eotech, mro or aimpoint.
If that’s the build plan, I would like at what was suggested above (triji acog) or a one of the three I mentioned eotech, mro or aimpoint.
An option to consider if you haven’t already, for an AR pistol (depending on if and how you plan on toting it around) is the Law folder. It’s a nice piece of kit that allows you to transport and store your firearm in smaller bags etc but still be quickly deployable as opposed to having it broken down into separate upper/lower. In my opinion your “shtf” rifle/pistol should be something you are able to and will easily grab to throw in your car when you leave the house every time, and not cause unnecessary attention. As far as optic goes just pick something you like and and are comfortable with. If you want fast and lite go with an Aimpoint or eotech, if you think you may want a Lpvo get one and try it out. Wait around for a good deal on something used, give it a shot and resell it if it’s not your thing. I find that no matter how many people’s opinions I read about some things, I really am not satisfied until I get some firsthand experience to see/decide for myself sometimes.
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Yes the Tritium Green Triangle is EMP proof and a very good reticle. It allows very precise longer shots off the fine point tip and for close work you just use the entire 12 MOA triangle at 1x power and it is pretty much like using a Red Dot as far as using the Bindon Aiming method.
A pretty solid SHTF & (EMP proof) setup optic is the Trijic Accupoint 1 x4 with Green Triangle with the Burris Optics PEPR mount that has the small Pic rail on top of the rings. You can then put a Triji RMR Red Dot on top of that which will provide an excellent night time passive optics shooting solution through NODS that is elevated which pretty much mimics all these "Skyscraper" mounts that everyone is chasing these days to do passive NV shooting with Red Dots.
Seek out Selco. He made it through the Bosnian conflict. Real deal, been there done that and survived.
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This is all you need for SHTF.....it's been proven...I've seen it in action on the big screen.
What’s the length on this? I’m doing somewhat of a build that pertains to this thread. 11.5 suppressed with an sba3 and a folder
An infantryman is essentially living SHTF everyday and a short low fixed power optic that works without batteries has been working for a long time. I would only consider a RDS if I was assaulting/CQB >95% of the time. Even then, when assaulting, I don't find 4x to be a liability over 1x. At some distance I find 1x to be a liability over 4x though.
If an ACOG is too expensive, I think Primary Arms makes a good etched reticle 3x prism but any of the low power BDC etched reticle prism optics make a lot of sense on an SBR/pistol.
Personally, I think an LPVO makes more sense and is more attractive on a little longer patrol rifle over the SBR/pistol.
If an ACOG is too expensive, I think Primary Arms makes a good etched reticle 3x prism but any of the low power BDC etched reticle prism optics make a lot of sense on an SBR/pistol.
Personally, I think an LPVO makes more sense and is more attractive on a little longer patrol rifle over the SBR/pistol.
ARFCOM is pissed! It wants its thread back!
Bro... this is SHTF we are talking about.. who’s going to be assaulting/CQBing less than 95% of the time?!!
I'm a little confused here....so...SHTF....say I was hungry and I decided it was worth the risk...and I wanted to assault a concrete block and fortified building with a single entry door with atleast 12 girl scouts yielding AK's...because we all know they love and know how to use AK's....and the scout mom is sporting a Milkor MGL....would you suggest an EO-Tech for rapid engagement with a SBR in 5.56?....or...would you...like me...just say fuck it...and sneak down the street and hit the easy gangbangers and steal their doritos?
If you don't feel like fighting, just roll a grenade in there. That's operator right?
NODs are only used for a few hours at a time. I am still on the same 2 AA batteries on my ANVIS 9's from multiple night hunts. For me, it's not that batteries are really heavy or an issue...it's that I know my optics can be left on constantly for at least a year if absolutely needed. An Eotech can't do that. You'll have enough shit to worry about as it is and the last thing I want to worry about is how much longer my battery is going to last in my optic.
Just my opinion.
My first deployment we had EOTechs and the batteries did die on me. Then we had Aimpoints which were fine. Next we had VCOG which I took off and ran irons because the VCOG just made it so clumsy. Next we had ACOGs which I liked. Then we ran Aimpoints again which I liked for CQB but outside 25y, magnification was faster and I went back to the ACOG. Even with a RDS, I'm kind of looking over the top of everything during CQB so the ACOG isn't ever a liability, everything else was though at some point for some reason.
Here is my 12.5..... I have had basically the same set up for over 10 years. A few changes here and there, but nothing major. I have extensive use under NODs with this, both with active and passive NV.
For those of y’all using ACOGs, does it ever annoy you when the BDC does not align properly due to major temperature/season swings?
I don’t mind if its not actual 300/400/etc yard, just wonder how much it fluctuates throughout the year.
I don’t mind if its not actual 300/400/etc yard, just wonder how much it fluctuates throughout the year.
Worst thing about ACOGs is no ocular adjustment.
If you are eyesight compromised they force you to wear your corrective lenses to see the reticle.
For that reason alone, in my case, they wouldn't be the best emergency rifle.
Full Disclosure - I have a TA33 on my LMT CQB and it will be the rifle I use on my mid range course coming up soon.
I never had a problem with my ACOG but did on a Trijicon Reflex. Everyone is making a 1x and 3x prism optic these days for a good reason
