Re: SHWW Group
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DAFAR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow guys that really is alot to digest.
Since Ranger asked the is what I am looking for:
I am on a limited budget with kids in college so I need to work with what I have.
I have Two Remington short actions to Choose from for a conversion.
One is a VTR in 308 (has the wierd triangular barrel, which is sitting in a HS Precision Remington LTR stock rather (light)
The second is an is a 300 wsm hunting rifle. This is the one I thought about turning into the 7mm wsm and sticking into the Mcrees stock that I have
Additionally I have my Remington PSS in 308 that I would like to leave as is (save for a replacemnt barrel when the day comes.
I realize that I am probably looking at having to modify two rifles to do what I want however:
What I am looking for first is a non barrel burning caliber with available brass that shoots flatter preferably with less reoil than the 308. this is so I can bang away all day without my shoulder acting up and also so my daughter can shoot it a little more comfortably.
I would like the platform to be a more field manageable than than the pss was in the Mcree stock so that I can shoot the off hand positions better in the tactical matches(thats why I am looking at something like the 260 that can be popped into the LTR stock).
I would like to be able to go to 1 k or maybe streched to our new ranges 1150.
Hopefully this helps. so far I am relizing that what I probably need to do is turn the 300 wsm into a 7mm wsm and pop it into the Mcree as a long range heavy that I only shoot a little bit prone and for the matches a 260 into my LTR Stock.
SO there you go , OK Guys rip me a new one on my thinking process </div></div>
"What I am looking for first is:
1. a non barrel burning caliber
2. with available brass
3. that shoots flatter
4. preferably with less recoil than the 308.
5. this is so I can bang away all day without my shoulder acting up and also so my daughter can shoot it a little more comfortably.
6. I would like the platform to be a more field manageable than than the pss was in the Mcree stock so that I can shoot the off hand positions better in the tactical matches (thats why I am looking at something like the 260 that can be popped into the LTR stock).
7. I would like to be able to go to 1 k or maybe streched to our new ranges 1150.
8. Hopefully this helps. so far I am relizing that what I probably need to do is turn the 300 wsm into a 7mm wsm and pop it into the Mcree as a long range heavy that I only shoot a little bit prone
9. and for the matches a 260 into my LTR Stock."
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regarding your ideal rifle characteristics listed above, and referencing 260 remington to these, here is what I can come up with.
1. a non barrel burning caliber: Yes, relatively speaking the 260 remington is not a flame-thrower like the .243 Winchester so you can expect to get +2500 rounds out of a good barrel before accuracy drops off and you need to set the barrel back.
So thats a good check mark here.
2. with available brass: .260 Remington brass is widely available straight from the factory, plus it can also be made very easily by necking down 7mm-08 brass and .308 brass as well as necking up .243 brass.
So thats a good check mark here.
3. that shoots flatter (than the .308): yes, the .260 Remington does fit the bill in spades regarding flatter shooting than a .308.
So thats a good check mark here.
4. preferably with less recoil than the 308: yes, the .260 Remington does fit the bill in spades regarding shooting with less recoil than a .308.
So thats a good check mark here.
5. this is so I can bang away all day without my shoulder acting up and also so my daughter can shoot it a little more comfortably: yes, the .260 Remington does fit the bill in spades regarding shooting much longer and with more comfort than a .308.
So thats a good check mark here.
ISSUE TAKEN OUT OF ORDER ON PURPOSE!
7. I would like to be able to go to 1 k or maybe streched to our new ranges 1150: yes, the .260 Remington does fit the bill. It is an excellent 1000 yard shooter than can easily be loaded for shooting 1150 yards without overpressure issues or barrel burning issues. This is done by using bullets with significantly higher Ballastic Co-efficients than the 168 gr and the 175 grain SMK's.
So thats a good check mark here.
Now we get to these two requirements:
9. and for the matches a 260 into my LTR Stock (as in "light weight" stock?).
6. I would like the platform to be a more field manageable than than the pss was in the Mcree stock so that I can shoot the off hand positions better in the tactical matches (thats why I am looking at something like the 260 that can be popped into the LTR stock):
Ok, this is do-able, but you have to make a choice and the laws of physics are pretty clear cut: F = M x A
Translated that means "Force equals Mass times Acceleration". For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Yes, a .260 Remington shooting a 139 to 142 grain projectile will kick less than a .308 Winchester shooting a 175 grain projectile. However, the recoil is NOT so much less that you will suddenly be able to shoot all day or that it is so tame that your daughter will enjoy shooting it. Therefore, you have to decide on one of two remedies or a combination of them both.
*The quick and easy answer is to get a very efficient muzzle brake and put it on the barrel contour you choose for this new build. You have to pick as efficient a muzzle brake as you can find so it really does dampen the recoil and not just looks cool.
If you go this route, be prepared to have other shooters not liking to shoot next to you as much as they once did.
On the plus side, this will keep you rifle weight down for competition use. On the negative side, the thinner barrel will NOT be able to dissipate the heat from constant and faster shooting as well, so your barrel won't last as long.
**The other (better) option is to use a heavier barrel contour. Because for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction means that a heavier contour barrel will keep the rifle from recoiling as much, it will also dissipate heat better and it will indeed make the rifle MORE ACCURATE compared to the thinner barrel.
But now you have a heavier rifle to lug around.
So, what would I do?
Put a hard and fast number to the MAXIMUM weight you are willing to tolerate the completed rifle system to be when you're lugging it around and subtract from that number ALL of the accessories you are going to put on it.
for example, lets say 15 pounds is the maximum weight you want this build to be. The local post office sells digital scales the can weigh up to ten pounds accurately so I'd go get one of those if you need an accurate scale.
Weigh your scope, your rings, the base, action and trigger, the bipod, sling, LOADED magazine, the stock and everything I haven't covered already that you want on your rifle on the scale. How much do they weigh?
Subtract that number from the end weight you want this rifle to be and that leftover number will be how much your barrel can weigh.
From my experience, I know that a 20 inch .260 remington barrel will shoot the distances you want to shoot. A short but STOUT (as in fatter and less flexible) barrel will give you better long range accuracy than a longer, thinner and thus more flexible barrel.
So in your case, I'd start with a 20 inch barrel and see how much longer I could make the barrel WHILE MAINTAINING THAT THICK BARREL CONTOUR before I reached my max weight limit.
If you decide to put a US Optics scope on this rifle you are going to eat up a lot of weight right there. Try to find a lighter scope of the qualities and features you want and use that scope instead.
Rings: Nightforce makes some EXCELLENT light weight rings. Light weight, yet still very durable.
Every ounce counts in this matter, but do NOT sacrifice quality for lightness. If you do so, you might regret it come competition time.
If I could build my .260 again, I would still have the 26 inch barrel on it that I originally had.
Terry Cross (God of all Good things 6.5mm) uses a #14 Krieger "Heavy Palma" contour barrel that he has cut short at 26 inches. He wins and has won National Competitions for years. That barrel weighs between 6 and 6.5 pounds. He can afford to throw away barrels at the drop of the hat.
I can't. Hence, I would buy a Krieger "Light Varmint" contour barrel that weighs just the same as the "Heavy Palma" barrel weighs. Like Terry, I would also cut this barrel short at 26 inches (or maybe even as short as 24 inches".
Krieger Barrel Contours
The big difference between these barrels is that the Palma barrel has 2.5 inches of straight shank at the breach end and when setting a barrel back to get more life out of the rifling, you only have that 2.5 inches to play with.
The Light Varmint barrel has 5 inches of straight shank at the breach end and when setting a barrel back you have twice the amount of straight shank to work with. Burn up 1, 2 or 3 inches of the breach end of the barrel? No problem! Drive down to your local gunsmith and have him hack the end, re-thread and re-chamber the barrel and you are up and running again! And you're getting a heck of a lot more barrel life and paying a whole lot less for it.
Yes, I really have done this in real life and Tribe is a witness to it! I burned 3 inches of rifling out of my barrel and after the gunsmith set the barrel back, it shot perfectly fine with thousands of rounds worth of barrel left! Real life, no kidding!
I hope this helps.
FWIW, get a 1:8 twist so regardless of how short the barrel is, it will still be long enough to stabilize the longest of the 6.5mm bullets.
Questions?
