Member Link Up SHWW Group

[ranger1183]

Re: SHWW Group

Me? In a uni-tard?


Oh Dear God!

 

[blackwidow2912]

Re: SHWW Group

sounds like something ranger would do! he he

 

[Aer454]

Re: SHWW Group

Hey gang, new to the forums and to shooting. Thought I'd drop in the thread for the locals! I'm up in Arlington, don't have anything to shoot aside, from an old marlin 22. Going to try and pick up a new rifle in the next couple months and start seeing if I can get out there with you guys!

 

[hopps]

Re: SHWW Group

I was wondering what you were talking about and then I saw the phone booth line... ranger is a "buddy" of manners

thanks for the info I will probably be contacting Tom, 9 weeks wait time beats the hell out of 25 weeks from Mcm.

 

[hopps]

Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aer454</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey gang, new to the forums and to shooting. Thought I'd drop in the thread for the locals! I'm up in Arlington, don't have anything to shoot aside, from an old marlin 22. Going to try and pick up a new rifle in the next couple months and start seeing if I can get out there with you guys! </div></div>

I don't speak for everyone but I usually let people try out my rifles. If your planning to buy you should sleep around a little and test drive a few to see whats up your alley...

EDIT: and welcome btw, I'm new here on the hide also

 

[Tribe]

Re: SHWW Group

Don't want to be mis-read.... just sayin'.... If there ever was such a thing as a shooter junkie.... Ranger is with out a doubt.... Da' Pusher Man......

 

[Tribe]

Re: SHWW Group

I.E.: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1378512#Post1378512

 

[Aer454]

Re: SHWW Group

Wow, that would really be appreciated, thank you! Thinking back to the days when I used to shoot a lot more, I would say I've handled around 30-40 different guns. Enough to have a super vague idea of what I like/dislike but I don't know any specifics as far as a specific rifle, cartridge, etc. Sounds like the Remy 700 is pretty great rifle to pick up in terms of cost, accuracey out-of-the-box and rather large availability of after-market parts. Mostly trying to decide if I want to pick up yet another .22 to start dedicating towards target-shooting or some smaller centerfire.

 

[dontstrokeme]

Re: SHWW Group

Yeah dude welcome....you are more than welcome to shoot mine as well......if you can put it off untill January Febuary when we have another big SHWW shootout then you can get all kinds of feely with all kinds of rifles. There was a Sako TRG 42 out last time and I never even shot it but just laying down behind it and shouldering it up let me know that that style of rifle fit me good. Squeezing the trigger is easy, it is the fitting your style/body that is key.

I am looking at selling my 300WM if interested in somthing that big...I think Ranger is selling his 260...if his is not sold yet.


What is your goal for the rifle?

 

[Aer454]

Re: SHWW Group

I plan on owning several guns for different purposes. Ideally, I would like a big caliber for super hard hitting, long range stuff (thinking .300 Weatherby Mag or .338 Lapua). This gun would also act as a backup/safety for when I'm out bowhunting with my uncle for bear. Usually 3-4 of us will go, and I'd like to have a rifle on hand for safety-sake for a poorly placed shot, or unexpected charge.

I want another long ranger that is also ideal for hunting some of the smaller stuff (NA deer) though 95% of it's use would be at the range. A lot of people mention the .308 which I agree with. Not only does it perform well out to extended ranges, it's sheer amount of available cartridges and other options make it a no-brainer to have in the collection. <span style="font-weight: bold">This would likely be my main shooter </span> I'm leaning towards the Rem 700 for both this and the previous gun I mentioned. I like Remington's 700 VLS on their site in .308.

I want a semi-auto smaller centerfire for plinking and trying my hand at some quick, aimed shots (not to mention the fun that comes with emptying a clip as fast as you can!) I've shot a couple different mini 14's and always enjoyed them, though I do remember frequent jamming on one of them. Not sure if thats a standard for the mini 14 or just the one I was shooting, but they're still my top pick for this category or an AR.

I would like to get a nice rimfire as a trainer. I have a lot to learn about shooting, and throwing $30 bucks at wally world for a 1000 round training session sounds nice. Mark II, 77/22 and a few others came to mind. My old shooting crew used to have a really nice 10/22 that I enjoyed a lot, though I think it would be best to stick to a bolt action, putting more emphasis on form and shot placement than plinking. I have an old 10/22, but the blued barrel has a fair amount of rust on it, and the thing seems in fairly sad shape. I'm not sure if it'd be worth putting any time/money into. And as I said, would prefer a bolt. I also have an old Marlin 60SS that currently has a 3-9x28 bushnell scope on it. No where near dialed in. Intellectually I know it would likely be most beneficial to pick up a nice .22, learn from it, grow from it, upgrade it and learn some more, before spending more money on the other guns. It's hard though, emotionally, to justify spending money on yet another .22 when I have several around the house, just in poor shape or semi-auto.

 

[dontstrokeme]

Re: SHWW Group

On here the 308 is the go to round...if you have to ask "What Caliber" you should have a 308....ammo, research, you can buy a very accurate drop chart.

Look into the SPS Varmint....heavy barrel and try for the 1-10 twist barrel. Then go from there, HS Stock $250, and optics.....I am torn between a scope for my 300WM and building a 7-08 out of a SPS Varmint, MCM A1-3 and cut to 20". The SPS Varmint stock is shit but it will work untill you can afford an upgrade, the HS Stocks are a major upgrade and they work really well with a stock pack.

We are shooting on the 31st if you want to come out and get some touching in.....


Everyone is still planing on the 31st correct?

 

[Aer454]

Re: SHWW Group

What is this barrel twist I keep hearing about? Whats it's significance? What should I look for? Why?

What are some of the key things to look for in a stock? I know allowing the barrel to free-float is important, though I don't know why. Other than that, I thought stock choice just came down to personal preference on comfort.

Lastly, why a heavy barrel? Simple mechanical understanding would explain the importance of a longer barrel over a short, heavy over light, but is there some physics/science I'm missing?

Thanks for the pieces of wisdom!

 

[DAFAR]

Re: SHWW Group

The heavy barrel does a couple of things for you.
1)Even though you do not see it a barrel whips and moves when it is fired(kind of like a tuning fork) the heavier barrel is stiffer so it does not have as much of an effect.
2)In addition the heavy barrel has more surface area and that help to keep the barrel cooler longer. By keeping the barrel cooler it helps in maintaining consistancy and reducing throat wear for longer firing strings
3) the heavy barrel also puts more wieght on the gun which helps with felt recoil and if you are shooting correctly will help to combat muzzle jump when shooting of of the Bipod
4 Up to a certain point a heavier barrel helps to steady the rifle when shooting offhand(depends on the shooters training)

These are just simple and basic reasons of why, as you learn more you"ll see it can get a little more involved

Just my 2 Cents,,, of by the way welcome to the group

 

[Aer454]

Re: SHWW Group

Thanks for the info!

So from what I understand from what your saying, the hotter the barrel gets, to the more wear and tear on the barrel? So more life out of the barrel and more accuracy when it's colder? 'Cold shot' is a term I've seen a couple times, is this the same thing? Usually it's a negative comment on the cold shot though. I seen a guys thread where he was talking about his grouping with one drifter shot being his 'cold shot' or something?

I take it the purpose of a 'floating' barrel allows the barrel to move (in the tuning fork fashion) more 'naturally' when fired and therefor improves accuracy some how? Still confused on the floating barrel purpose.

And the twist? I think they are two different things, but not sure. I see barrel twists measured in inches, and I see ratios too in 'barrel turns' like 1:8 or whatever. "Quick turn" is a term I've seen?

Sorry for so many questions lol

 

[*Nine]

Re: SHWW Group

You've got it about barrel heat. A hotter barrel will wear faster than one kept cool. Now, every barrel has a usable life, and will die eventually, but generally, the cooler the barrel is kept during firing the longer it will live.

As for twist rate, the ratio and the inches are the same thing, it's just two different ways of saying it. A 1:10 twist is the same thing as a 10 twist.

If you want a good overview of the .308, including info on twist rates, check out http://www.6mmbr.com/308win.html

 

[Tribe]

Re: SHWW Group

The online training program: http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=997161&nt=2&page=1

This will cost you $10 a month. To date, they have covered a lot of fundamentals in terms of shooting mechanics... no doubt they will start delving into environment, atmosphere and ballistics as the "class" moves forward.

Be advised, you can find all of this information throughout the "open" threads on this site... but it takes a GREAT deal of search time & an enormous amount of reading... you will also have to develop a rather sensitive B.S. filter... usually at a heavy cost in range time & ammo....

C

 

[Aer454]

Re: SHWW Group

Awesome info, thank you. So the shorter the twist, the more friction on the round? By that I take it, the greater spin on the bullet? Greater spin means the round will fly truer through the air, but with reduced speed... So, really it's sort of a game of trying to find a good load-to-twist match for best performance? Am I right?

And last question to clarify on the cold shot thing, why does the first round of the day have accuracy problems? Or have I mis-understood something?

 

[*Nine]

Re: SHWW Group

The twist needed is really related to the length of the projectile. Longer projectiles need to be spun faster than shorter ones to stabilize them, so the longer projectiles (usually heavier as well) generally need faster twist rates so they can maintain their stability as they fly.

As for friction and speed, yes, a faster twist will create a little more friction, and it will result in a very slightly slower speed since more of the energy is being used to spin the bullet. The main thing that's going to cause reduced speed is the fact that the bullets that need the faster twists are usually heavier, and the weight of the bullet itself will cause you to see lower velocities.

As far as finding the bullet/twist match, you're right. That's one of the tricks to long range shooting.

The cold bore thing is something that's been discussed and debated many times. Search for that one, and you'll find more information than any of us could type for you here in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[Aer454]

Re: SHWW Group

Very awesome! Thank you so much. As for the cold bore thing, if it's that debated, I'll consider it a 'not in my rhlem of crap to worry about yet' factor. lol

God I love this site! Haha

 

[dontstrokeme]

Re: SHWW Group

For .308" caliber....whichever standard chambering...308 Winchester, 30-06 Govt, 300 Winchester Magnum, 300 Weatherby....all standard 30 cals...a 1-10" twist is ideal for a broad range of bullets...IMO. Fast enough for 210gr projectiles and slow enough to not rip apart 110gr HP's.

If you are serious about this shit PM Tribe and ask him to send you the Book I lent him....I'll give you an ice cream sandwich for the shipping cost Tribe...or turn off the porch light so the MOTH can sleep!!!! But that is a freaking great book for learning and will give you lots of complicated formulas and then explain them is laments terms....this shit is 90% math and the rest is always a variable....the book is Understanding Exterior Fire Arms Ballistics I belive...Red and Black cover....paper back about 1 1/4" thick...I got it at Barnes and Knoble if there is one near you...but if you want to read my copy just PM Tribe your address (thanks Tribe

)

But we can talk all day and then we could shoot for an hour and you would learn more in one hour of range time than typing for days....shit always changes and seeing how people change for the field conditions is better than a MD.

Sorry for the rant but the last word of advise is if reading and searching find someone that seems to explain somthing so that you can understand it and not too many people contridict....and follow that guy....go to his user name and select "View Posts By". BTW it is not me....

Best way to search Snipers Hide

 

[ranger1183]

Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aer454</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I plan on owning several guns for different purposes. Ideally, I would like a big caliber for super hard hitting, long range stuff (thinking .300 Weatherby Mag or .338 Lapua). This gun would also act as a backup/safety for when I'm out bowhunting with my uncle for bear. Usually 3-4 of us will go, and I'd like to have a rifle on hand for safety-sake for a poorly placed shot, or unexpected charge.</div></div>


Aer454 -

I want to give you my two cents on this subject as I have been asked to research this exact question before. Let me first begin with one basic premise that you may or may not find valid in this particular application.

The qualities of a good long range hard hitting rifle, and thus it’s cartridge and projectile, are not necessarily the same as the qualities of a good short range up-close-and-personal charging grizzly rifle, cartridge and projectile. In essence, there is no "uber" rifle, cartridge or bullet that fills all these needs at the same time. For long range hunting / precision shooting, the Sako .338 Lapua Magnum TRG-42 is an excellent choice. For thick brush <span style="font-weight: bold">”kill-that-grizzly-NOW!”</span> situations, not so much.

In regards to the rifle you should pack just in case of a charging grizzly scenario, I was asked this question two years ago by a man of virtually unlimited means who planned to have a solo-retreat type cabin deep in Grizzly territory. He wanted a lightweight extremely packable easy-to-carry rifle to engage charging Grizzlies even in the worst of weather conditions. Rifle had to be low maintenance, highly reliable and weather resistant, very quick to deploy, highly effective and with very fast follow-on shots.

In my experience, there is a perfect rifle made for this situation.

The rifle is a stainless steel, laminated stock lever action .45-70. Marlin makes a good one.

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/bigbore/1895SBL.asp

This Marlin even has a rail just in case you want to mount a quick reflex type of sight or a low power scope. Having one or the other would be a very handy feature in my book.

In regards to ammunition, if you don't reload, buy Garrett .45-70 ammunition.

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp

In particular, look at both the 540 grain gas-checked Hammerhead and the 500 grain Hornady copper-clad steel jacketed flat-nose solid. The 500 grain Hornady bullet is rated for the world’s most dangerous game and personally, I put grizzly bears in that category.

http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=791

Using this ammo in conjunction with the Marlin lever action will give you <span style="font-weight: bold">six very fast shots of +500 grain projectiles</span> that will easily smash through brush, flesh, muscles, bones and strike at the most vulnerable parts of a dangerous animal. In this case, a charging bear.

These types of rifles (lever actions) are known for their ability to work in the absolute worst of conditions. The lever is easy to manipulate with either cold hands or wearing heavy gloves. The trigger mechanism is very heavy duty. In particular, the hammer really is a <span style="font-weight: bold">HAMMER</span> on lever actions. Nothing dainty or fragile about them. The rifles are damn near bomb proof; they’re solid as hell and can take hard falls / impacts better than other styles of rifles. And they don't cost thousands of dollars either. For what it's worth, I personally believe this is the best rifle for that survive-or-be-eaten situation.

That's my 2 cents. I hope this helps you out.

 

[Aer454]

Re: SHWW Group

Now THAT is two cents to take to the piggy bank. I knew that there is a difference between long-range open-country type of rounds, and dangerous game. But I thought the .300 Weatherby would be able to have the emergency firepower for the situation we're talking about.

As I read around the web, I'm getting the impression that a .308 will be able to perform out to 1000'ish yards about as well as a larger .300 weatherby. At least, it would as for where I'm at as a shooter and for many years to come.

I think a good .308 for my long range shooting and general hunting would be the best choice, and not worry about the bigger long-range stuff and just go for a dedicated dangerous-gamer. I'll definitely be looking into the rifle you mentioned. I've wanted to pick up a lightweight .30-30 for packing in the woods while hiking/camping in a lever-action.

.45-70 in a short, light rifle like that I bet would kick like a bitch, but for the situation it'd be intended for, I doubt I'd hardly notice or care at the time.

Thanks again for the awesome post!

 

[Aer454]

Re: SHWW Group

Wow, thank you a lot for the offer on the book, this place is quickly starting to feel like a little brotherhood! Don't worry about sending the book though, I'll pick one up off of Amazon.

Being new, I have a lot of questions. Naturally being curious and detail oriented, I like to learn about every aspect that I can come across, to the point that many would consider 'beating the subject to death'. But hey, that's the way I am. I think my best move for now, would be to pick up a good bolt action .22 that I can spend some time with and learn from. After that, or when funds are available (wife stops whining) I'll grab a .308 Rem 700.

For now, I think there are so many things I need to learn on the basic/elementary level, it'd be much more practical to just go for the 50-200 yard shots with a .22 and kill a bunch of ammo.

So while on the subject of a good 22.... Any recommendations?

 

[dontstrokeme]

Re: SHWW Group

The Ruger 77/22 is my dream bolt 22...or the Sako Quad has been made into a trainer by lots of members. Check our the rimfire section...4th member area from the top....look for "trainer".

 

[blackwidow2912]

Re: SHWW Group

the 300 weatherby is a good round for long range just make sure its a heavy gun or has a muzzle brake. if you have a light gun like i had and fire 150 rds in a weekend shoot you might have a shoulder left my turned black by the end of the first night.

 

[Aer454]

Re: SHWW Group

lol. I'm not going to worry about picking up something that big for awhile. A descent .22 trainer and .308 is on the list first. I'll kill my shoulder as a reward for becoming a better shooter =P

 

[DAFAR]

Re: SHWW Group

About 15 years ago I was stationed on a small base and lived in housing. The base allowed you to have your guns as long as you listed what they were with security.
When the XO saw my list she freaked and was going to disallow my storage at home and mandate that I kept them in the armory.
A good friend was in charge of the armory and he asked the xo this

xo do you play golf, she reponded yes. do you have more than one club. to which she responded yes you need putters for short shots and drivers to get on the green and several wieght in between.
well said bill this guy is the same way differant shooting sports need differant rifles Yea its just like that.

She backed down and I got to store my toys at home

 

[DAFAR]

Re: SHWW Group

AER its like this when your young you cant afford all the good toys but you have good eyes, when you get older you can afford better toys but your eyes suck. Time is a cruel Beatch.

Of course the old guys can afford better optics too

 

[Aer454]

Re: SHWW Group

Guess I'm glad I'm in college and will be making a few descent bucks before I'm 30 =P Your right on the money though. Well, depending on how many more kids we decide to have. >.> haha

 

[dontstrokeme]

Re: SHWW Group

1)dontstrokeme
2)groundskeeper
3)mattj
4)dafar
5)donp
6)rotortuner
7)market garden
8)csar
9)longeyes
10)ranger
11)hopps

Let me know if anybody else wants to come out.....10 people is quite a few for the area but if people run pistols as well there is a seperate pistol range at the spot. I will more than likely be watching anyways so if anybody needs directions getting to PA or help finding overnight spots just PM me. If you can not come let me know also.

 

[dontstrokeme]

Re: SHWW Group

Let's set the meet up here.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...mp;oq=&aqi=

I can hold 3 others as well so that we have fewer rigs at the range.

Set meet time for 9AM in the southeast corner of the lot.

This is my truck.

 

[Rotortuner]

Re: SHWW Group

Im still unsure if i can come. I think Ill probably have the weekend off, but you never know. I need some come ups on a couple different guns plus im kinda curious on that range too, would be the longest i have shot "flat".

CJG

 

[CSAR]

Re: SHWW Group

Some questions.....
Is the shooting from a covered area? (will probably be raining) Benchrest stuff or prone/sitting? Will a small putt putt car be able to access the area or is it a dirt/truck road? I can bring large cardboard, do we need it for target backing? Other thoughts???? Looks like the 7:10 Edmonds ferry is going to be the best bet to get over there for me.

 

[Diggerline59]

Re: SHWW Group

Hey guys, quick question. Opening day for montana rifle season is tomorrow, and I just realized I dont have any hunting ammo yet. I'm shooting a .308 and will be hunting for both rocky mountain elk, and mule or whitetail deer. Couple friends of mine shoot a 180 grain bullet out of a .308 so I was wondering if you guys have any suggestions for a good box of ammo to pick up.

Would a 168 grain bullet work well for an elk? It would be nice to not have to worry about my zero.

 

[Tribe]

Re: SHWW Group

My 5R has always liked these....

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/rifle.aspx?id=304

 

[dontstrokeme]

Re: SHWW Group

That's what I would recommend also...the Partitions or the Accubonds are very good bullets... 180 is probably the safest weight for Elk.


It is a covered shed with a stove if we need the heat, gonna run up there this coming week and see what we need to bring.

 

[Diggerline59]

Re: SHWW Group

Thanks guys. Wakin up in 4 hours to head out. It's my first time hunting so I'm stoked! I'll make sure to post some pics if I get lucky tomorrow.

 

[ranger1183]

Re: SHWW Group

sorry Guys, but I won't be able to make it to the shoot. You guys have a good time and stay safe.

 

[dontstrokeme]

Re: SHWW Group

That's it!!!! You are off the list!!!

Ranger....don't know if your ballistic program can tell you when full powder burn is? Thinking on the next build....7-08 would get an 18" barrel but if I go 280AI how long of a barrel would I need to go to get full use of say RL22? One reason to go with the AI is so that I could buy RL22 in uber-bulk and just keep one powder....you were playing with the RL17 with 243/260/7-08/308 weren't you?

 

[DAFAR]

Re: SHWW Group

HeyGuys it is with Much regret that Don P and I will not be able to make it. It is very rare that we have to workk or be on call over a weekend but if the new server room is ready we will have to bust a N&^ to get the servers installed over the weekend.

Bust some steel for me guys

 

[longeyes]

Re: SHWW Group

Well, Looks like I wont be able to make the shoot on the 31st--- still trying but it ain't looking real promising. On a good note however--we(SHWW) have been given permission / access to an old logging area and power line R.O.W. with various ranges out to about 1500. Access to the general public restricted. The really cool part is that it is located near Ravensdale and Black Diamond so its not a long way to travel.

 

[Tribe]

Re: SHWW Group

Nice!

 

[Rotortuner]

Re: SHWW Group

I have been to Ravensdale once. This might be a little easier for some people to get too. any ways, looking forward to checking it out.

I will have a good idea if i will be making it this weekend tomorrow or Thursday.

CJG

 

[dontstrokeme]

Re: SHWW Group

So when is the shoot going to be Longeyes?

Can we camp like in the Sol Duc?

 

[*Nine]

Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longeyes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, Looks like I wont be able to make the shoot on the 31st--- still trying but it ain't looking real promising. On a good note however--we(SHWW) have been given permission / access to an old logging area and power line R.O.W. with various ranges out to about 1500. Access to the general public restricted. The really cool part is that it is located near Ravensdale and Black Diamond so its not a long way to travel. </div></div>

I'd be real interested in this! I'm all about not travelling further than I need to.

 

[DAFAR]

Re: SHWW Group

Oh man that sounds awesome

 

[mattj]

Re: SHWW Group

Longeyes, that sounds simply awesome man, thanks for making that happen. Can't wait for a shoot there!


As for Saturday -- can I humbly request that we push the "meeting time" at Alby's back to say 9:30?

For those of us who have to make the water crossing, the boats leave at 5:45 and 7:10. Several of us were on the 7:10 boat last time, and getting there by 9:00 was very iffy. 9:30 meet time at Alby's would just allow folks to take the 7:10 boat without risking a speeding ticket to try to get there on time (which I believe happened to somebody last time).

What say you guys?

 

[dontstrokeme]

Re: SHWW Group

mattj that is not going to happen. If we don't get there by 9am then we won't get out of there untill at least 9:30!!!!

Yeah bud no worries there!

Anybody wants my cell for directions or anything just PM me.

 

[mattj]

Re: SHWW Group

Cool, I'll give you a call if the boat decides to go slow or something.

 

[Rotortuner]

Re: SHWW Group

I think im going to be ablet to make it. only for sat though, I wont be spending the night. I dont have a lot to shoot either, just some more testing as usual. See you guys there.

CJG