Smith Enterprises, Inc. Suing over a forum post.
- Thread starter mescalito
- Start date
He got banned for several reason,
1. He couldn't stop schilling for SEI
2. He was offered a free slot (I believe more than once) to Shoot a Sniper's Hide Match with his M14 to prove his claims, he ignored the repeated requests.
It's comical, as I don't believe he ever served at day in the military (I could be wrong) calling Me a "POG" as I was anything but a POG. He screwed up the first letter, it's H. O. G. water-boy. Now go rub your mama's feet.
1. He couldn't stop schilling for SEI
2. He was offered a free slot (I believe more than once) to Shoot a Sniper's Hide Match with his M14 to prove his claims, he ignored the repeated requests.
It's comical, as I don't believe he ever served at day in the military (I could be wrong) calling Me a "POG" as I was anything but a POG. He screwed up the first letter, it's H. O. G. water-boy. Now go rub your mama's feet.
Everyone brings joy to the forum.
Some when they arrive and others when they leave.
I dont think the water boy's cheer-leading for SEI is having much success......
It's quiet funny to watch the FB page. People post to their wall and it's up for a few hours then they delete and ban people. Pretty soon they wont have anyone but H20 posting to their wall. Funny that his name came up as they actually posted support for H2O's FB page on their wall. From their FB wall:
"Please like H2O MAN's addiction to M14s page, Kevin Young who runs that page is top notch and knows his stuff."
So it's safe to say that there is no doubt now that H2O is a shill as mentioned above.
I remember he was posting a bunch of pics of various M1As and when you offered him a 'slot' he said that he didn't have a rifle to use. LOL.
Which is hilarious because he does not nor has ever lived in CA.
I think he's banned from every other forum, even the M14 forum (pure irony)?
They tolerate him there because most of the people on Calguns are ignorant bubba-gunbillies, more than a few members have shown support for him and SEI.
This makes me want to bring mine to a match some time. I will lose horribly (no matter what rifle I use) but I will do it with a smile on my face having a good time.
I have been reading all the posts and I find this the most interesting by SEI.
Smith receiver - Page 20 - M14 Forum
And after reading that just scroll up and read some of their other posts.
Smith receiver - Page 20 - M14 Forum
And after reading that just scroll up and read some of their other posts.
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Hello,
I'm not through reading everything going on, but Smith Enterprises Inc. is clearly in the wrong. I tossed some coin from Smith-Sights' coffers to the defense. Not a lot, but will be more in the future. Saving for a c-section in February.
Us Smiths tend to take care of our own. We hate it when one of us gives the rest of us a bad name. No relation that I know of, though.
Still the most idiotic thing I've seen a company do in many, many years.
Regards,
Josh
I'm not through reading everything going on, but Smith Enterprises Inc. is clearly in the wrong. I tossed some coin from Smith-Sights' coffers to the defense. Not a lot, but will be more in the future. Saving for a c-section in February.
Us Smiths tend to take care of our own. We hate it when one of us gives the rest of us a bad name. No relation that I know of, though.
Still the most idiotic thing I've seen a company do in many, many years.
Regards,
Josh
you never heard about HS precision hiring lon horiuchi, or troy hiring his partner? HD rifles? Gooch? dick Jamison? No shortage of stupid gun stuff happening. A bunch of other gun companies have done lawsuits to various degrees.
at the end of this I predict smith enterprises will still be in business, I can't say the same for 1/2 of the one named above...
at the end of this I predict smith enterprises will still be in business, I can't say the same for 1/2 of the one named above...
Honestly, I have zero love for hammonje, the guy has rubbed me the wrong way from day one. There are a lot of people who do love him though and enjoy his banter about being a doctor and his "expert" advice on building rifles. I have him on my blocked list just cause some of the stuff he spouts off about irritates me enough that I just don't want to see it
I also have no loyalty to SEI, despite the fact I've done business with them, been to their shop and use several of their products, which I'm quite pleased with.
My issue is with stupid people... you want a product from a company whom you know has a bit of an attitude, you pay full price for it through their distributor, then you mouth off about stuff that's hearsay on a public forum. You gotta be one dumbass doctor to do that.
I waited about 2 1/2 years for my LRB M25 receiver. Granted, I didn't pay anything up front, just told them I wanted one. I called three times in that 2 1/2 years for an update. Sure I wanted my receiver, but I didn't need it for anything urgent. Finally I got a call saying it was ready, I paid for it and it was done. I didn't feel a need to complain, speculate on the hold up, post a bunch of crap cause lead times were missed... it was what it was and I wanted the product. If it annoyed me as much as the good doctor seemed annoyed, he should have cancelled the order and gone elsewhere, like his favourite, Fulton Armory. Or, maybe he wanted to cancel, but not lose the money, so you gripe enough to get it cancelled by the manufacturer. I really don't know the details and being the internet, people can say almost anything to paint themselves in whatever light they wish. I don't believe either party is innocent. However I do believe in researching before you buy and knowing the company and the product you're dealing with.
For me, although I feel SEI handled this wrong, I don't believe hamster is right in how he handled things to begin with. Public forums are rarely the right place to vent your frustrations, and it's no secret SEI has so-so customer service.
I also have no loyalty to SEI, despite the fact I've done business with them, been to their shop and use several of their products, which I'm quite pleased with.
My issue is with stupid people... you want a product from a company whom you know has a bit of an attitude, you pay full price for it through their distributor, then you mouth off about stuff that's hearsay on a public forum. You gotta be one dumbass doctor to do that.
I waited about 2 1/2 years for my LRB M25 receiver. Granted, I didn't pay anything up front, just told them I wanted one. I called three times in that 2 1/2 years for an update. Sure I wanted my receiver, but I didn't need it for anything urgent. Finally I got a call saying it was ready, I paid for it and it was done. I didn't feel a need to complain, speculate on the hold up, post a bunch of crap cause lead times were missed... it was what it was and I wanted the product. If it annoyed me as much as the good doctor seemed annoyed, he should have cancelled the order and gone elsewhere, like his favourite, Fulton Armory. Or, maybe he wanted to cancel, but not lose the money, so you gripe enough to get it cancelled by the manufacturer. I really don't know the details and being the internet, people can say almost anything to paint themselves in whatever light they wish. I don't believe either party is innocent. However I do believe in researching before you buy and knowing the company and the product you're dealing with.
For me, although I feel SEI handled this wrong, I don't believe hamster is right in how he handled things to begin with. Public forums are rarely the right place to vent your frustrations, and it's no secret SEI has so-so customer service.
The Key here is that you did not put money down. A customer can only bitch/gripe so much when they do not have any money already invested......Paying upfront IS asking for trouble. I have seen a lot of companies get themselves in trouble with customers because of this.
This post has been very informative! I didn't realize how many guys on this site were in the market for a M14, not to mention for smith!!! I guess this snafu is going to cost them a pile of money, as it looks like the "stand in line to buy" guys aren't just over on the m14 site, but lot's of other buyers are here as well. When SE does get their problem sorted out, I'm wondering if their sales are going to fall, or if they will still be able to sell everything they make? You guys with the insight into these things, keep an eye on this for the rest of us and post an update as it plays out. I guess the speculation on what was causing the delay in delivery is what started the problem. I know over the last year or so, many vendors have sold stuff they don't have, and blame it on a piss poor type of record keeping-no real time inventory etc. Others just state up front-you'll get it when you get it, we're real busy etc. To avoid this type of thing happening in the future, I hope SE puts a little disclaimer on their order sheets. Something along the lines of: Due to the huge demand for our product, we cannot and will not offer a delivery date, you'll get it when we make it, take it or leave it, and please don't call asking about your order...." That may solve any future problems.
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Customer reviews and recommendations are one of the strongest traits of the internet IMHO for purchasing products. A company can strive or die based on as little as 10-20 reviews. I read gun magazines strictly for entertainment value on the toilet, not for honest reviews. I immediately read customer reviews on everything from a scope to hardwood flooring. If 30 people say the floor scratches easily, I assume they are correct. When 12 people are reviewing a magazine on Midway's site and say it jams every other round, I believe them and steer clear.
On the other side, a company who produces an outstanding product, backed with large numbers of satisfied customers. Look at the amount of work GAP and guys like Chad Dixon have gotten thanks to this site.
The court system better step up and shoot this type of shit down. Things like Angie's List and the BBB exist to give the consumer an idea about a good or service before learning the hard way. An Angie's List recommendation is a strong marketing tool. The only companies that are upset about this stuff are the ones who consistently offer poor service and products.
On the other side, a company who produces an outstanding product, backed with large numbers of satisfied customers. Look at the amount of work GAP and guys like Chad Dixon have gotten thanks to this site.
The court system better step up and shoot this type of shit down. Things like Angie's List and the BBB exist to give the consumer an idea about a good or service before learning the hard way. An Angie's List recommendation is a strong marketing tool. The only companies that are upset about this stuff are the ones who consistently offer poor service and products.
You're right, I didn't pay any money up front, I did ask them if they wanted money up front as I was willing to pay the full amount, but they declined. I ha e paid for things up front and waited a year to see them (JAE G2 stock), and I heard another three months every time I contacted them. Some people are hitting two years or more for current JAE G3 stocks and don't whine nearly as much as this guy.
I'm not supporting either side, I think both have issues that they need to resolve.
I'm not supporting either side, I think both have issues that they need to resolve.
IANAL (I Am Not A Lawyer). Having said this, (most) everybody has an opinion, and so do I. Here it is...
To win a slander lawsuit, doesn't the plaintiff have to prove that the public statement was in fact an intentional slender, and the alleged facts did not happen? And if not - won't the suit be dismissed if the defendant brings a factual proof of his public statements - such as the evidence of his transaction and honest & reasonable attempts to resolve the disagreement with the plaintiff?
For a really dissatisfied customer (a hypothetical example - giving $800+ for some merchandise that doesn't show up months after with no explanation offered and CS being hostile), it probably makes sense to pursue other avenues prior to or in parallel with making statements in public forums. For example, contacting Better Business Bureau and Attorney General office of the state in question, Federal Trade Commission. This could both provide the paper trail to prove the lawsuit is a SLAPP (and get it dismissed in any case), and turn some screws on the unscrupulous company.
To win a slander lawsuit, doesn't the plaintiff have to prove that the public statement was in fact an intentional slender, and the alleged facts did not happen? And if not - won't the suit be dismissed if the defendant brings a factual proof of his public statements - such as the evidence of his transaction and honest & reasonable attempts to resolve the disagreement with the plaintiff?
For a really dissatisfied customer (a hypothetical example - giving $800+ for some merchandise that doesn't show up months after with no explanation offered and CS being hostile), it probably makes sense to pursue other avenues prior to or in parallel with making statements in public forums. For example, contacting Better Business Bureau and Attorney General office of the state in question, Federal Trade Commission. This could both provide the paper trail to prove the lawsuit is a SLAPP (and get it dismissed in any case), and turn some screws on the unscrupulous company.
Smith Enterprise, Sucks.
Great site. Love the legal principle of "Fair Use" and "confusingly similar"
Implying that since this site isn't confusingly similar to SEIs real site its good to go.
Great site. Love the legal principle of "Fair Use" and "confusingly similar"
Implying that since this site isn't confusingly similar to SEIs real site its good to go.
Smith Enterprises, Inc. Suing over a forum post.
Look at the first two pages of the lawsuit:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0XyOXhO5LcXS2lwWERPNi1fd3c/preview?pli=1
What I see is a plaintiff from a venue state of Arizona, a defendant not from Arizona who is alleged on information and belief to be a competitor of SEI when it looks like he is in fact a lone consumer who bought a receiver from a third party. And the defendant's only contact with Arizona appears to be his purchase of the receiver in New Mexico.
Good luck with that. I would bet that the defense firm assigns this one to its best first year law student. LOL!
Maybe consider reading the Thread before posting: That question has been answered.
Look at the first two pages of the lawsuit:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0XyOXhO5LcXS2lwWERPNi1fd3c/preview?pli=1
What I see is a plaintiff from a venue state of Arizona, a defendant not from Arizona who is alleged on information and belief to be a competitor of SEI when it looks like he is in fact a lone consumer who bought a receiver from a third party. And the defendant's only contact with Arizona appears to be his purchase of the receiver in New Mexico.
Good luck with that. I would bet that the defense firm assigns this one to its best first year law student. LOL!
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This is off topic but something I have noticed on this forum that happens quite a lot. For whatever reason, is seems that some people here often fail to read a provided link or reference before posting. Often times the link answers or addresses the OPs question/issue, yet you will continue to have people posting the same solution or asking a question that has already been addressed in the thread. What ever happened to attention to detail and reading all the posts in a thread before posting? Rant over
From my viewpoint, some of you guys are touchy and a bit grouchy. If Mouse would have answered both of my questions, as far as I can tell from this web page:
A Brief Overview of Anti-SLAPP Statutes : Newsroom Law Blog
There are no ANTI SLAPP laws in AZ, so his reasoning wasn't very valid from a legal standpoint.
so i may be setting myself up for more schooling, but all I was trying to point out was that mouse7410 was counting on a law that isn't in existince in AZ. I could be wrong 'cause I'm not a lawyer and I don't live in AZ but that was my train of thought, using what had already been posted and what I had already read from the links provided.
whether it is a slapp lawsuit or not, it has been filed and now it is up to the defendent hammonds to disprove all the claims sei has made. If he doesn't show (or hire a defense firm) guess how much it matters
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This is all just a bunch of wtf.
Just out of curiosity what was h2o's claims on his m14? Never saw any posts and cant find any ;-;.
Just out of curiosity what was h2o's claims on his m14? Never saw any posts and cant find any ;-;.
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Thank you cartman, I didn't see that state listed when I did look at the DMLP web site. The way it is described though it is strictly related to government action or legislation, so it doesn't apply in this case.
Smith Enterprises, Inc. Suing over a forum post.
That's not how the system works.
The burden is on the Plaintiff to plead and prove all of its claims, including personal jurisdiction.
Why do people insist on posting out of their backsides?!
That's not how the system works.
The burden is on the Plaintiff to plead and prove all of its claims, including personal jurisdiction.
yes, you are correct. I should have been more clear and stated that sei looks to be ready to make all their claims IN COURT, and hammond has to show up and have competent legal representation to disprove their claims. If he doesn't, he will lose.
Smith Enterprises, Inc. Suing over a forum post.
SEI have already made their claims in court. The complaint is evidence of that.
Hammond does not have to have legal representation, competent or otherwise, and he does not have to show up unless he wants to defend himself without a lawyer.
And, like I said before, the defendant does not have to disprove a plaintiff's claims. That's not how the system works.
Please, if you haven't a clue, kindly stop posting garbage.
That's still not correct. In fact, all of it is incorrect.
SEI have already made their claims in court. The complaint is evidence of that.
Hammond does not have to have legal representation, competent or otherwise, and he does not have to show up unless he wants to defend himself without a lawyer.
And, like I said before, the defendant does not have to disprove a plaintiff's claims. That's not how the system works.
Please, if you haven't a clue, kindly stop posting garbage.
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I'm not reading through 5 pages because as Frank already posted some of us are lazy, but just from skimming the preliminary reasoning I have to ask on what grounds they have for libel if there are no real evident damages that can be proven as causation of the defendants actions and not based upon the delay of delivery, poor customer service experiences, etc. etc.?
A free practice pointer for the armchair barristers...before you hang your hat on the "lack of quantifiable damages" defense of a defamation claim, you may want to familiarize yourself with the concept of "damages per se" and its potential impact on your proposed silver bullet.
That...and read the actual complaint...
That...and read the actual complaint...
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I'm limited on time these days, so trying to read through every long thread doesn't happen. Some of us "armchair barristers" are simply asking questions because we enjoy learning from professionals on here. PS... I believe "damages per se" which would be "libel per se" in AZ and they require that the statement made is “on their face and without the aid of any extrinsic matter”.
Thanks Graham. When I get some free time I'll check it out. SEI is beginning to look like someone else on here...
I googled "Does AZ recognize Damages per se" to see if your statement even applied since I'm not an Attorney and not in AZ and rather than responding with a reason why my "bold" statement is invalid and having a friendly discussion you do like you always do and start throwing out insults. You also googled my statement to find the case law that I cited in order to come up with that piss poor excuse for a quip. Not so shocking and more like ironic with a dash of hypocrisy.
I thought I knew some basics about law, its a good thing I am not doing anything with that erroneous knowledge. It's good to learn when you don't know anything about the subject though.
to graham, lowlight and anyone else that was bothered by my foolish posting, I apologize. let this be a lesson to me to ask rather than state if I have questions about something.
Bradley
to graham, lowlight and anyone else that was bothered by my foolish posting, I apologize. let this be a lesson to me to ask rather than state if I have questions about something.
Bradley
