for improving scopes. i've spent 3 days looking for my idea to purchase and it doesn't exist. How complicated is it to get it patented? i can't say what it is cause once I say it, it would get built. Any ideas how to talk to someone without them being able to steal it? I mean i can't just call someone up and demand them sign a nondisclosure agreement can I? My favorite company is ior I think i'd want them or the guy from grsc (the firefighter that created his own optic) cause I respect what he did.
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Rifle Scopes so if i came up with an innovative idea for glass
- Thread starter yocan
- Start date
Re: so if i came up with an innovative idea for glass
Chances are someone has already came up with the idea. The basic ideas of scopes has remained for decades, nothings really changed. What has changed is the way they are built, the process, the materials, that what now days makes good scopes. My 2c.
Chances are someone has already came up with the idea. The basic ideas of scopes has remained for decades, nothings really changed. What has changed is the way they are built, the process, the materials, that what now days makes good scopes. My 2c.
Re: so if i came up with an innovative idea for glass
make drawings schematics etc get them dated and contact the patent office you should be able to take off from there
make drawings schematics etc get them dated and contact the patent office you should be able to take off from there
Re: so if i came up with an innovative idea for glass
Actually all you need is to start keeping a log book of your idea with some basic info and sketches. From that date you have a certian amount of time to patent it or else it beomes unpatentable. ( its either a year or five years, I forget)
In my honest opinion, which is worth what you pay for it, is patents are not worth much in all honesty. You have to have the funding to back them up if another person comes out with something similar or even a direct copy. I doubt your idea will make you millions upon millions ( not being degrading so don't take that wrong) and make defending pattents with the cost. If it is the worlds new best idea though you can bet some big companies with big legal budgets will be wanting to challenge your claim of pattent infringment. O yes remeber they don't have to actually beat you in court, they just have to keep you tied up long enough that you get sick of spending money on it, or run out of money to play your legal costs.
Good luck with your idea, I say try it and see what happens, but remeber patents arnt worth the paper they are on usually.
Actually all you need is to start keeping a log book of your idea with some basic info and sketches. From that date you have a certian amount of time to patent it or else it beomes unpatentable. ( its either a year or five years, I forget)
In my honest opinion, which is worth what you pay for it, is patents are not worth much in all honesty. You have to have the funding to back them up if another person comes out with something similar or even a direct copy. I doubt your idea will make you millions upon millions ( not being degrading so don't take that wrong) and make defending pattents with the cost. If it is the worlds new best idea though you can bet some big companies with big legal budgets will be wanting to challenge your claim of pattent infringment. O yes remeber they don't have to actually beat you in court, they just have to keep you tied up long enough that you get sick of spending money on it, or run out of money to play your legal costs.
Good luck with your idea, I say try it and see what happens, but remeber patents arnt worth the paper they are on usually.
Re: so if i came up with an innovative idea for glass
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SLUHstud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually all you need is to start keeping a log book of your idea with some basic info and sketches. From that date you have a certian amount of time to patent it or else it beomes unpatentable. ( its either a year or five years, I forget)
In my honest opinion, which is worth what you pay for it, is patents are not worth much in all honesty. You have to have the funding to back them up if another person comes out with something similar or even a direct copy. I doubt your idea will make you millions upon millions ( not being degrading so don't take that wrong) and make defending pattents with the cost. If it is the worlds new best idea though you can bet some big companies with big legal budgets will be wanting to challenge your claim of pattent infringment. O yes remeber they don't have to actually beat you in court, they just have to keep you tied up long enough that you get sick of spending money on it, or run out of money to play your legal costs.
Good luck with your idea, I say try it and see what happens, but remeber <span style="color: #FF0000">patents arnt worth the paper they are on usually</span>. </div></div>
First off, two words: spell check.
Second; The part in red: I know a LOT of people, both "little guys" and big corporations that would vehemently disagree with that.
Cost: not very expensive, in the grand scheme of things.
http://www.uspto.gov/about/offices/cfo/finance/fees.jsp
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SLUHstud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually all you need is to start keeping a log book of your idea with some basic info and sketches. From that date you have a certian amount of time to patent it or else it beomes unpatentable. ( its either a year or five years, I forget)
In my honest opinion, which is worth what you pay for it, is patents are not worth much in all honesty. You have to have the funding to back them up if another person comes out with something similar or even a direct copy. I doubt your idea will make you millions upon millions ( not being degrading so don't take that wrong) and make defending pattents with the cost. If it is the worlds new best idea though you can bet some big companies with big legal budgets will be wanting to challenge your claim of pattent infringment. O yes remeber they don't have to actually beat you in court, they just have to keep you tied up long enough that you get sick of spending money on it, or run out of money to play your legal costs.
Good luck with your idea, I say try it and see what happens, but remeber <span style="color: #FF0000">patents arnt worth the paper they are on usually</span>. </div></div>
First off, two words: spell check.
Second; The part in red: I know a LOT of people, both "little guys" and big corporations that would vehemently disagree with that.
Cost: not very expensive, in the grand scheme of things.
http://www.uspto.gov/about/offices/cfo/finance/fees.jsp
Re: so if i came up with an innovative idea for glass
Thanks, ill spell check better for you from now on Mr internet police. Sorry I was typing from my phone...
Your people can say what they want. The people I know stand behind my statement. Big corps can defend patents, that's why they like then. You and me have no chance of defending one against a big corp without going into financial ruin, and good luck defending anything outside the country like the chinese produced knockoffs.
In the grand scheme of things your right, the cost isn't much compared to setting up your corp or llc and getting manufacturing up and going, but all it is, is a sheet of paper unless you out the finances into defending it in court. You seem to know people that deal with this sort of thing, so do I, my info is first hand from a close friend. Ask him how patents worked out and he will say the same thing I am.
The op can do what he wants and chooses, but just informing him that a patent is not a lock on keeping from other people from ripping you off.
Thanks, ill spell check better for you from now on Mr internet police. Sorry I was typing from my phone...
Your people can say what they want. The people I know stand behind my statement. Big corps can defend patents, that's why they like then. You and me have no chance of defending one against a big corp without going into financial ruin, and good luck defending anything outside the country like the chinese produced knockoffs.
In the grand scheme of things your right, the cost isn't much compared to setting up your corp or llc and getting manufacturing up and going, but all it is, is a sheet of paper unless you out the finances into defending it in court. You seem to know people that deal with this sort of thing, so do I, my info is first hand from a close friend. Ask him how patents worked out and he will say the same thing I am.
The op can do what he wants and chooses, but just informing him that a patent is not a lock on keeping from other people from ripping you off.
Re: so if i came up with an innovative idea for glass
You can't "demand" that someone sign a non disclosure agreement but you can certainly request it as condition of the discussion.
They are so common place that it would usually be assumed that one would be required for such a discussion.
Large corporations sometimes live and die by the wording of a patent. You will have it written well but someone else will have a team looking for loopholes in it.
As others have stated, the cost of defending the patent can be prohibitive for an individual. Could you outspend Leupold in a court room? What if the violators are in China? How does that affect your ability to defend the patent?
You wouldn't have to sell the idea to one company.
Consider the possibility of a license to multiple companies.
You might also be able to file jointly with one of the big companies to take advantage of their legal and financial expertise while still maintaining some control in exchange for preferential acess to the technology.
You would need to negotiate these things very clearly in writing in advance.
You might also want to search related patents in case there is something close enough to your idea to be of concern.
It's always easier to avoid an obstacle if you know about it in advance!
Best of luck with whatever you have up your sleeve.
You can't "demand" that someone sign a non disclosure agreement but you can certainly request it as condition of the discussion.
They are so common place that it would usually be assumed that one would be required for such a discussion.
Large corporations sometimes live and die by the wording of a patent. You will have it written well but someone else will have a team looking for loopholes in it.
As others have stated, the cost of defending the patent can be prohibitive for an individual. Could you outspend Leupold in a court room? What if the violators are in China? How does that affect your ability to defend the patent?
You wouldn't have to sell the idea to one company.
Consider the possibility of a license to multiple companies.
You might also be able to file jointly with one of the big companies to take advantage of their legal and financial expertise while still maintaining some control in exchange for preferential acess to the technology.
You would need to negotiate these things very clearly in writing in advance.
You might also want to search related patents in case there is something close enough to your idea to be of concern.
It's always easier to avoid an obstacle if you know about it in advance!
Best of luck with whatever you have up your sleeve.
Re: so if i came up with an innovative idea for glass
Do your research, just because you don't see it in the market doesn't mean that someone else doesn't have a patent on it.
My family business went through a Trademark infringement case, and the advantage goes to the company with the deepest pockets.
Good luck, in your venture.
SScott
Do your research, just because you don't see it in the market doesn't mean that someone else doesn't have a patent on it.
My family business went through a Trademark infringement case, and the advantage goes to the company with the deepest pockets.
Good luck, in your venture.
SScott
Re: so if i came up with an innovative idea for glass
I love seeing posts like these...... it's pretty funny when you see people think they have a great idea and guard it... usually means they are not a successful entrepreneur. I don't mean to offend you, as many of us have been there.
your idea is worthless, there are 6 billion people out there, including people that work on scopes all day every day. it's not the idea that is worth anything , it's the execution. Facebook and google are both one of the richest companies in the USA but at least 3-4 companies had their idea before, just didn't execute it the right way to be where they are.
Point if the matter is simple.... your idea is worthless unless you make something of it, keeping It a secret doesn't make it special. It only makes you look silly. If your idea can be given away in a paragraph, then it isnt worth anything.
You have two choices
1. make your own scope company and implement idea
2. Sell you idea to an existing scope company.
number 2 only works if your idea is more than an idea but a design. For example, let's say you thought of the idea of having front focal plane in a scope, just having that idea won't get you a dollar. On the other hand if it's something very hard to implement and people don't know how to and you think of a break through way and design an optic to be able to. then you can sell that design to a scope company. Otherwise the idea means nothing.
I'm guessing you just have an idea and not a revolutionary design to implement it, so your only choice is 1. you would have to get the tools and knowledge to make a great optic and then implement your idea... that idea would be your selling point then, but remember that the rest of the optic has to be great as well... then IF your idea is that great that it sells a scope or two, hopefully your competitors won't catch on because they will make something just like it but perhaps a smidge different to not violate patent...Then your back to square one of your better have a great optic for the price or your company isn't going anywhere fast....
Hope that helped, and brought your head out of the clouds and down to earth... Now that your on earth you can see clearly and do what you have to do!
note:wrote this one my iPad on the go, so there might be some spelling errors!
I love seeing posts like these...... it's pretty funny when you see people think they have a great idea and guard it... usually means they are not a successful entrepreneur. I don't mean to offend you, as many of us have been there.
your idea is worthless, there are 6 billion people out there, including people that work on scopes all day every day. it's not the idea that is worth anything , it's the execution. Facebook and google are both one of the richest companies in the USA but at least 3-4 companies had their idea before, just didn't execute it the right way to be where they are.
Point if the matter is simple.... your idea is worthless unless you make something of it, keeping It a secret doesn't make it special. It only makes you look silly. If your idea can be given away in a paragraph, then it isnt worth anything.
You have two choices
1. make your own scope company and implement idea
2. Sell you idea to an existing scope company.
number 2 only works if your idea is more than an idea but a design. For example, let's say you thought of the idea of having front focal plane in a scope, just having that idea won't get you a dollar. On the other hand if it's something very hard to implement and people don't know how to and you think of a break through way and design an optic to be able to. then you can sell that design to a scope company. Otherwise the idea means nothing.
I'm guessing you just have an idea and not a revolutionary design to implement it, so your only choice is 1. you would have to get the tools and knowledge to make a great optic and then implement your idea... that idea would be your selling point then, but remember that the rest of the optic has to be great as well... then IF your idea is that great that it sells a scope or two, hopefully your competitors won't catch on because they will make something just like it but perhaps a smidge different to not violate patent...Then your back to square one of your better have a great optic for the price or your company isn't going anywhere fast....
Hope that helped, and brought your head out of the clouds and down to earth... Now that your on earth you can see clearly and do what you have to do!
note:wrote this one my iPad on the go, so there might be some spelling errors!
Re: so if i came up with an innovative idea for glass
I would agree patents can be useless, but still would get them. A friend of mine designed and sold something for years under his patents, then went big and had info-mercials made etc, that company decided his cut was to big and stopped paying him after cutting him out of the video. He was owed millions, after years of court he still hasn't got any money.
I would agree patents can be useless, but still would get them. A friend of mine designed and sold something for years under his patents, then went big and had info-mercials made etc, that company decided his cut was to big and stopped paying him after cutting him out of the video. He was owed millions, after years of court he still hasn't got any money.
Re: so if i came up with an innovative idea for glass
Is it something like this, (which is currenlty being used successfully to keep many scopes from competitors off the market):
2010 Swarovski Patent
Or is it a simple feature of a scope like a reticle design or internal level?
We'd be interested in speaking with you in regards to your idea directly or through a third party intermediary.
Is it something like this, (which is currenlty being used successfully to keep many scopes from competitors off the market):
2010 Swarovski Patent
Or is it a simple feature of a scope like a reticle design or internal level?
We'd be interested in speaking with you in regards to your idea directly or through a third party intermediary.
Re: so if i came up with an innovative idea for glass
timelinex "your idea is worthless," You are a moron - because you may have never had an original thought doesn't mean that someone else does not have the intellectual capability to come up with a unique or better way of doing something.
yocan, good luck with your idea.
timelinex "your idea is worthless," You are a moron - because you may have never had an original thought doesn't mean that someone else does not have the intellectual capability to come up with a unique or better way of doing something.
yocan, good luck with your idea.
Re: so if i came up with an innovative idea for glass
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOPO-sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">timelinex "your idea is worthless," You are a moron - because you may have never had an original thought doesn't mean that someone else does not have the intellectual capability to come up with a unique or better way of doing something.
yocan, good luck with your idea.</div></div>
mhmm, I'm sure you know me and my ideas or what I do...
Anyways, best of luck to the OP
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOPO-sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">timelinex "your idea is worthless," You are a moron - because you may have never had an original thought doesn't mean that someone else does not have the intellectual capability to come up with a unique or better way of doing something.
yocan, good luck with your idea.</div></div>
mhmm, I'm sure you know me and my ideas or what I do...
Anyways, best of luck to the OP
Re: so if i came up with an innovative idea for glass
I hope you do well with your idea.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: timelinex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Point if the matter is simple.... your idea is worthless unless you make something of it, keeping It a secret doesn't make it special. It only makes you look silly. If your idea can be given away in a paragraph, then it isnt worth anything.
You have two choices
1. make your own scope company and implement idea
2. Sell you idea to an existing scope company.
</div></div>
Some hard truth, some total BS.
First sentence is right on the money.
Next two sentences are wrong. Period. You don't look silly and there are excellent ideas that have been written in a paragraph.
Most established or large companies get their innovative ideas from individuals and other small companies. There are notable exceptions, but not many.
Even if your idea is very innovative it has to compete against lots of other ideas and the cost/benefit of building it vs. what people would pay for it. There are some excellent ideas that are just too expensive to produce.
Selling an idea is difficult. HOwever, most people who have been screwed in the process didn't get the right help up front. If you're going to sell your idea get the right help.
All statements about large companies out spending individuals are true. It happens all the time, it's life.
All patents are not equal. Most design patents are almost worthless.
How do I know? It's a big part of my job. I used to be the guy who paid the royalties to the innovators and turned their ideas into products. I now design around design patents.
Also, the Dept. of Defense steals ideas all the time. They get busted if you have friends in the Government or have a lot of money.
SWFA's offer to listen is very generous. Get help, get a Non-disclosure from a professional and approach them. You never know till you try.
The optics we'll be using 10 years from now will be very different from what we use today. Many of the ideas in those scopes will come from users vs. the companies that make scopes.
I hope you do well with your idea.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: timelinex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Point if the matter is simple.... your idea is worthless unless you make something of it, keeping It a secret doesn't make it special. It only makes you look silly. If your idea can be given away in a paragraph, then it isnt worth anything.
You have two choices
1. make your own scope company and implement idea
2. Sell you idea to an existing scope company.
</div></div>
Some hard truth, some total BS.
First sentence is right on the money.
Next two sentences are wrong. Period. You don't look silly and there are excellent ideas that have been written in a paragraph.
Most established or large companies get their innovative ideas from individuals and other small companies. There are notable exceptions, but not many.
Even if your idea is very innovative it has to compete against lots of other ideas and the cost/benefit of building it vs. what people would pay for it. There are some excellent ideas that are just too expensive to produce.
Selling an idea is difficult. HOwever, most people who have been screwed in the process didn't get the right help up front. If you're going to sell your idea get the right help.
All statements about large companies out spending individuals are true. It happens all the time, it's life.
All patents are not equal. Most design patents are almost worthless.
How do I know? It's a big part of my job. I used to be the guy who paid the royalties to the innovators and turned their ideas into products. I now design around design patents.
Also, the Dept. of Defense steals ideas all the time. They get busted if you have friends in the Government or have a lot of money.
SWFA's offer to listen is very generous. Get help, get a Non-disclosure from a professional and approach them. You never know till you try.
The optics we'll be using 10 years from now will be very different from what we use today. Many of the ideas in those scopes will come from users vs. the companies that make scopes.
Re: so if i came up with an innovative idea for glass
The idea that you have may in fact already be patented. Just because it is not in production (available for purchase) does not mean that soemone has not already run down to the patent office with the same idea. It may also not be patentable because it is "prior art" that someone came up with, documented, but never bothered to produce for sale.
If you want to patnent this idea, you will likely need to do a search of related patents on file (or pay someone to do it) to see if it is not already patented.
The idea that you have may in fact already be patented. Just because it is not in production (available for purchase) does not mean that soemone has not already run down to the patent office with the same idea. It may also not be patentable because it is "prior art" that someone came up with, documented, but never bothered to produce for sale.
If you want to patnent this idea, you will likely need to do a search of related patents on file (or pay someone to do it) to see if it is not already patented.
Re: so if i came up with an innovative idea for glass
yocan,
Something to consider. You need to put your "ideas" down on paper, with all the details that you can come up with... idea, design, function, testing, manufacturing, approx costs, that sort of thing... and above all else, the date!!
Next, make sure that you have all the information put together in a binder or some sort. Put the binder into a large sealed envelope and mail it to yourself. Once you receive the envelope back, DON'T OPEN IT!!, put it away for safe keeping. You now have a dated and stamped batch of information... "with a federal date stamp".
This will help protect you should ever get to the point of getting this patented or whatever. If someone decides to pursue you and/or your ideas, at least you have a stamped date to put with your idea. Hopefully you won't have to worry about any sort of dealings like this, but this will be a start on the protection side of your idea.
Best of luck to you and your ideas!! I hope that you become a multi-millionaire 10x over.
DK
yocan,
Something to consider. You need to put your "ideas" down on paper, with all the details that you can come up with... idea, design, function, testing, manufacturing, approx costs, that sort of thing... and above all else, the date!!
Next, make sure that you have all the information put together in a binder or some sort. Put the binder into a large sealed envelope and mail it to yourself. Once you receive the envelope back, DON'T OPEN IT!!, put it away for safe keeping. You now have a dated and stamped batch of information... "with a federal date stamp".
This will help protect you should ever get to the point of getting this patented or whatever. If someone decides to pursue you and/or your ideas, at least you have a stamped date to put with your idea. Hopefully you won't have to worry about any sort of dealings like this, but this will be a start on the protection side of your idea.
Best of luck to you and your ideas!! I hope that you become a multi-millionaire 10x over.
DK
Re: so if i came up with an innovative idea for glass
Date is certainly important, that's why there is a proven way to establish it officially with USPTO by filling provisional patent application, which sets up priority date and is good for 1 year. I personally never tried "post stamp" date as a potential grounds of setting up priority date. I think if you want to try it, it may be a good idea to check out with patent attorney if it can be used as a legal argument in patent related court case, becuase that would be the only way to fight somebody who may steal your idea.
Common way of protecting your idea, in very simple presentation:
http://www.ehow.com/how_6900414_file-date-patent.html
Date is certainly important, that's why there is a proven way to establish it officially with USPTO by filling provisional patent application, which sets up priority date and is good for 1 year. I personally never tried "post stamp" date as a potential grounds of setting up priority date. I think if you want to try it, it may be a good idea to check out with patent attorney if it can be used as a legal argument in patent related court case, becuase that would be the only way to fight somebody who may steal your idea.
Common way of protecting your idea, in very simple presentation:
http://www.ehow.com/how_6900414_file-date-patent.html
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