So you think you can shoot?

[jbell]

If you want to find out give this one a shot prone with just a bipod and sand bag at 50 yards (or more if you dare). This target was posted in the 6X5 thread by Justin amateur. I gave it a shot the other day and had my ass handed to me. It is especially hard in the wind. I had only a 5 to 8 MPH wind coming in from 4 to 5 switching to 6 and if I didn't catch the switch I would let the round drift left, it really showed up on the target (more so than when shooting groups). I am looking forward to shooting it again and in clam conditions to see how well I can hold, but it is real fun in the wind. Here is the target I shot the other day (more to come):



I am also including a PDF of the target so you can print it and give it a go. I am very interested in what others can do with this target, because I know I didn't do it justice. Justin was measuring how far off center he was and giving an average which is a great idea. I just want to get hits so I didn't take the time to measure, but I may in the future. Good luck and post em up! Also include the conditions, rifle and ammo.

The target measures:
0.100" diameter center dot
0.223" diameter inside heavy ring
0.273" diameter outside heavy ring
View attachment 6X5DOTS (1).pdf

 

[Rustybroadhead]

That target is just stupid.... Someone with a really bad sense of humor must have come up with this one!

I think you did pretty damn well myself. I am headed to the range on Saturday and I MIGHT try it if there is no wind.

 

[justin amateur]

That Sauer is a seriously accurate rifle.
Still, seeing your results makes me feel better.
It's not so easy as you might think.
I thought it was just me having wind drift problems.
At 50 yards a 10 mph crosswind can push a 40 grain match round about 0.9 inches off line.
Easy to tell when you catch an errant push when you see a round 1/2 inch from poa.
Bipod, bags or ruck, lemme see those results, I need the comparison data.
Measure the distance from point of aim to center of impact, mark it next to the shot
Average the row, record it, average the target, record it


Here's one of mine shot with the 455 Fuglie
CZ factory 22lr Varmint barrel and action in a barrel block Frankenstock
RWS R50 ammo, 50 yards, gusty

The CZ 455 Fuglie

Rusty, the phrase y'er looking for is: "Somebody with a wicked sense of humor"

 

[PlinkIt]

got the weekend off and forecast showing 10mph average winds expected Saturday and 8mph average Sunday..

So I can let you know how a rookie with an auto loader does in wind by Monday.. this should tell you what the worst case scenerio is..

no time trial to this correct?

 

[gonzaga]

That ain't no bipod Justin is using.....I'm not sure what it's called but it shoots darn good......

Both of them targets are pretty good....

 

[jbell]

That Sauer is a seriously accurate rifle.
Still, seeing your results makes me feel better.
It's not so easy as you might think.
I thought it was just me having wind drift problems.
At 50 yards a 10 mph crosswind can push a 40 grain match round about 0.9 inches off line.
Easy to tell when you catch an errant push when you see a round 1/2 inch from poa.

The Sauer is a shooter for sure, I however seldom do it justice. The 6X5 thread BM11 has going is a great way to measure accuracy of a rifle and a shooter, but this makes you focus on precision. After you have the fundamentals down well enough a drill like this is good to help develop your wind shooting. Like I said when I shot this target the other day I had an average of 5-8 mph right to left 1/4 value wind that was pretty constant but occasionally would switch to a no value 6 oclock wind (I think that may have pushed some of my rounds high due to the terrain at my range). Keep this in mind and notice I only missed to the right on 2 targets, you not only get instant feedback about the wind effect on your shot but an easy to tell reminder after you are done shooting what was going on. Of course you must know the capability of your rifle and ammo and your abilities and take that into consideration. This not saying that all the misses on my target are from me not calling the wind correctly, I can brake bad shots with the best of them.

So get out there and give this a go and note the conditions when you are shooting so you / we can reflect on the effects. I am going to give this a try at 100 yards the next time I shoot that the wind is not cranking...

 

[justin amateur]

That ain't no bipod Justin is using

Not a bipod? Lemme see here...slips on and off the forestock,
Not permanently mounted, allows enough movement left and right
to be able to shoulder the rifle and hold it vertical if the supporting
surface isn't level, and it has two metal feet to allow recoil slide.
If that doesn't fit the description of a bipod, then all those F-class
engineered forend support structures aren't either!

C'mon now....just 'cause it's all redneck tech, doesn't mean it doesn't work.

 

[Rustybroadhead]

Justin.... where's the kick stand??? LOL

That is pretty cool! You certainly don't see that everyday

 

[justin amateur]

Not my fault.
I blame it on CZ for not shipping my Manners stock.
I should not be allowed to sit and think about "what if?"

This is what happens:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-rimfire-section/242596-cz-455-fuglie.html

 

[Rustybroadhead]

I just read your entire 455 Fuglie thread and I have a suggestion to make....

Send pics and a link to this entire thread to CZ. I would be really interested to see what the factory had to say about it. It very well may motivate (read as SCARE) them to get you your stock a little quicker once they see what you are doing with your idle time. HA HA!

Great build and a great read! Thanks

 

[Bullitt 454]

IR 50/50 anyone?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[justin amateur]

nope, not for me

Wastes too much paper and ink.
And 20% easier, only 25 shots, not 30.
Too many rules and time constraints.
Also allows mechanical rests.

And registration fees? a whole dollar. No way.

I could paint the fuglie a whole 'nother color for that much.

 

[Bullitt 454]

It's fun.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[yoteman]

The Sauer is a shooter for sure, I however seldom do it justice. The 6X5 thread BM11 has going is a great way to measure accuracy of a rifle and a shooter, but this makes you focus on precision. After you have the fundamentals down well enough a drill like this is good to help develop your wind shooting. Like I said when I shot this target the other day I had an average of 5-8 mph right to left 1/4 value wind that was pretty constant but occasionally would switch to a no value 6 oclock wind (I think that may have pushed some of my rounds high due to the terrain at my range). Keep this in mind and notice I only missed to the right on 2 targets, you not only get instant feedback about the wind effect on your shot but an easy to tell reminder after you are done shooting what was going on. Of course you must know the capability of your rifle and ammo and your abilities and take that into consideration. This not saying that all the misses on my target are from me not calling the wind correctly, I can brake bad shots with the best of them.

So get out there and give this a go and note the conditions when you are shooting so you / we can reflect on the effects. I am going to give this a try at 100 yards the next time I shoot that the wind is not cranking...

well, well, well, some thing more to shoot my good ammo at. damm guys, TSC has started up last month, but will give a go soon.
JBell let that pro you have living, with you give it a go, I just love having a young lady,( or ladies) kick my butt.
ps I told you that gun was done (you shoot it out), like I have said I will take it off your hands. Ha Ha
just bring it to conover NC some time would love to see it do what it does best at the TSC match

 

[diverdon]

If you want to find out give this one a shot prone with just a bipod and sand bag at 50 yards (or more if you dare). This target was posted in the 6X5 thread by Justin amateur. I gave it a shot the other day and had my ass handed to me. It is especially hard in the wind. I had only a 5 to 8 MPH wind coming in from 4 to 5 switching to 6 and if I didn't catch the switch I would let the round drift left, it really showed up on the target (more so than when shooting groups). I am looking forward to shooting it again and in clam conditions to see how well I can hold, but it is real fun in the wind. Here is the target I shot the other day (more to come):



I am also including a PDF of the target so you can print it and give it a go. I am very interested in what others can do with this target, because I know I didn't do it justice. Justin was measuring how far off center he was and giving an average which is a great idea. I just want to get hits so I didn't take the time to measure, but I may in the future. Good luck and post em up! Also include the conditions, rifle and ammo.

The target measures:
0.100" diameter center dot
0.223" diameter inside heavy ring
0.273" diameter outside heavy ring
View attachment 36150

IS that a 8-1/2X11 paper? For me to make it look that good I would need to print it 16X20.

 

[mr2.0]

Thats some serious shooting

 

[jbell]

well, well, well, some thing more to shoot my good ammo at. damm guys, TSC has started up last month, but will give a go soon.
JBell let that pro you have living, with you give it a go, I just love having a young lady,( or ladies) kick my butt.
ps I told you that gun was done (you shoot it out), like I have said I will take it off your hands. Ha Ha
just bring it to conover NC some time would love to see it do what it does best at the TSC match

Yote, I would love to come down to NC and burn up some ammo with ya just need the time. I think the Sauer is still doing ok for now, however I am uncertain about this lot of Center X I am shooting, it is easily holding 1/2moa at 50 but I have not seen any screamers bout of it yet. I am glad the weather finally broke 50f up here last week, now I can see if I remember how to shoot with out shivering. I am planning on having the girls shoot this here in the near future I think they will enjoy it.

I know that the IR50/50 is tough too, but like Justin said I like this target because it is quick and easy to print on 8 1/2 X 11. I tried to shoot the 50/50 last year but the guys running the match said I could not use a bipod and could not shoot off the ground, I said thank you for your time and mumbled something about that being gay as I walked off...

 

[yoteman]

Jbell yep thats gay

also my 3rd lot of centerX went to shit quick,
cant wait to what the gal's can do
ya always welcome at the match
yo

 

[JG26_Irish]

OK, I will give it a go. I am planning a trip to the range this week anyway. But, do not discount the IR50/50, ARA, and USBR tgts. They all offer tiny little bulls, and an accepted standard scoring method as well as the added bit of shooting under time pressure. When the wind is blowing and the clock is ticking, you cannot always wait it out, you have to send the shot. Yes, it is only 25 shots but each one is just as hard. True that in the sanctioned matches they are all shooting from benches, but we can shoot any way we want with whatever tgt we choose. I bought a stack of 100 USBR tgts to use for practice and they were cheap and are made from nice paper that cuts cleaner holes and were only pennies each (cheaper than Wally World tgts).

Measuring Justin's tgt is time consuming and tedious. How about scoring it? Say: Best edge. If bullet touches the outer ring it is a 5. If it touches the inner dot, it is a 10, and if it completely obliterates the inner dot, it is a "10X".

Irish

 

[justin amateur]

Hey Irish, honestly don't care about points or measurements.
Just want to see the results on paper. Real easy to tell when the shooter
has the skills and the rifle to produce enviable results. If you do want to score,
then worst edge, and an X would leave a visible white ring inside the heavy circle.
Example is jbell's third shot, top row. Let's see what you can do.

 

[SpeedyR]

need to try that next weekend. will my 10/22 in hogue stock with SBX barrel and Federal 550 pack ammo cut it??

love the fuglie stock. awesome!

 

[RicosRevenge]

need to try that next weekend. will my 10/22 in hogue stock with SBX barrel and Federal 550 pack ammo cut it??

love the fuglie stock. awesome!

Only 1 way to find out!

I'll be out of town this weekend but I just got may hands on a couple bricks of the good stuff (R50) so I'll definitely be trying this out soon. If I can just remember what 50 yards looks like... ;-P

~ Rico

 

[yoteman]

Rico 50 is the one closes to ya when you set up at the bench,LOL
but i think this will be tuff at any yardage
yo

 

[jbell]

I am down with the 50/50 targets. I just haven't ever ordered any. I agree they would be easier to score. I may order a pack to try as well.

 

[justin amateur]

I am down with the 50/50 targets. I just haven't ever ordered any.

Neither have I.
But then, why would I?

Another one of my 8.5x11 inksavers.
AutoCad, it's a good thing.

 

[Rustybroadhead]

I would be really interested to see how an anschutz biathlon would do on one of these evil targets.... if anyone had one laying around.....

I wanted that rifle bad but just more coin than I could swing. Show me how it shoots jbell!

 

[jbell]

I would be really interested to see how an anschutz biathlon would do on one of these evil targets.... if anyone had one laying around.....

I wanted that rifle bad but just more coin than I could swing. Show me how it shoots jbell!

Ill get Bob to bring it out next time we go. It showed a lot of promise last fall...

 

[justin amateur]

Tried again this morning.
455 Fuglie 17 hmr Lilja at 50 yards
CCI 20 gr FMJ, Hornady 20 gr XTP and Hornady 17 gr V-Max
Wind from my 6 to 8 o'clock pushing 6 to 14 mph

The CCI 20 gr FMJ was inconsistent so I switched over to the 17 gr V-Max.

The Lilja really likes the V-Max

Easy to tell I'm shooting off a bipod.
Very visible human error, but still the best results of all my 455 barrels.
Third row last target, all rounds above poa, tail wind providing lift.

 

[jbell]

Justin, very good with the wind. I hope next weekend Ill be able to get out and give this a try again. Hard to find time to shoot with kids softball and gymnastics, but its worth it.

 

[justin amateur]

Shooting dots is probably one of the best ways to learn to track wind effects.
I've got one eye on my windicator ribbon, the other on the crosshairs
and feeling for the wind currents on my skin, trying to catch those rare lulls
on a breezy morning. I know the moment I squeeze whether I've timed it right,
if the round is going to push off line and get confirmation a moment later
when the round smacks the paper. Had one of the benchrest regulars
practicing this morning who wanted to try from a bipod, so I let him use
my 455 American Lilja with the Harris S-BR. Put one of the 6x5 targets on his frame
and he ran a box of SK standard downrange. He wouldn't even let me see his target
when he finished shooting. His comment was "How can anyone shoot accurately that way?".
Not like working off a Caldwell with micro-adjustments and an eared sandbag.

 

[PlinkIt]

well I don't know if this will work but I am trying to post a picture of my attempt at this..

ended up doing this with a bone stock 10/22 with a brand new bipod.. side note first day I ever owned a bipod..

with 4 to 12 mph winds switching in a rather evil fashion from eleven to four..

range finder flipped back and forth between 49 and 50 yards so I may have cheated by a foot or two..

and I am certainly not a professional shooter so this should give you a really good base line comparison

 

[jbell]

Derrick, not bad considering the rifle and being new to shooting off a bipod. What ammo Federal ______? Also what model of 10/22?

 

[PlinkIt]

Derrick, not bad considering the rifle and being new to shooting off a bipod. What ammo Federal ______? Also what model of 10/22?

Federal Auto Match bulk pack in 40 gr at 1200fps muzzle velocity (so nothing special) and a bone stock 10/22 stainless target model off a Harris S-BRM bipod

 

[justin amateur]

I like it. Dam fine for a first time off a bipod.
Depending on your ammo, I think you can do better.
See if you can find some mid-grade target ammo.
It's called pistol match, designed to cycle semi-autos
and provide more consistent trajectories.
Post some more targets when you get a chance.

 

[PlinkIt]

I like it. Dam fine for a first time off a bipod.
Depending on your ammo, I think you can do better.
See if you can find some mid-grade target ammo.
It's called pistol match, designed to cycle semi-autos
and provide more consistent trajectories.
Post some more targets when you get a chance.

I got my hands on one box of better ammo... but I was using it later in the day when the wind died to get a better handle on my 100 yard shooting ..

but that was literally all I could get my hands on for better ammo..

people are still being crazy around here with the 22 ammo..

 

[PlinkIt]

Also what model of 10/22?

 

[jonesy]

Are you only accepting rimfire submissions? This seems like a great way to analyze individual shots for wind, etc. at 100+ yards with any centerfire.

 

[jbell]

Are you only accepting rimfire submissions? This seems like a great way to analyze individual shots for wind, etc. at 100+ yards with any centerfire.

As far as I care this is an open forum and all is welcome! Just if you shoot it with centerfire let us know the details. I was actually thinking about trying it with centerfire as well at some point.

 

[HuskerP7M8]

If you want to find out give this one a shot prone with just a bipod and sand bag at 50 yards (or more if you dare). This target was posted in the 6X5 thread by Justin amateur. I gave it a shot the other day and had my ass handed to me. It is especially hard in the wind. I had only a 5 to 8 MPH wind coming in from 4 to 5 switching to 6 and if I didn't catch the switch I would let the round drift left, it really showed up on the target (more so than when shooting groups). I am looking forward to shooting it again and in clam conditions to see how well I can hold, but it is real fun in the wind. Here is the target I shot the other day (more to come):



I am also including a PDF of the target so you can print it and give it a go. I am very interested in what others can do with this target, because I know I didn't do it justice. Justin was measuring how far off center he was and giving an average which is a great idea. I just want to get hits so I didn't take the time to measure, but I may in the future. Good luck and post em up! Also include the conditions, rifle and ammo.

View attachment 36150

jbell,

It's sometimes interesting to make comparisons of unsanctioned informal shooting against the data/scores available for the two largest BR organizations. I used your target for no other reason than the fact it's the first one posted in this thread. In this case, I've plotted the shots and calculated the scores for the ARA/IR50 targets:

Your 30 shots converted to 25 shot BR target scores = 237 7X (IR50) - 1529 (ARA)
Your 30 shots ATC (Average to Center) = 0.188".

Your 30 shots as a composite virtual group:

It's also possible to use this or any other target shot informally to discover how well the accuracy/precision level of a shooter/rifle combination compares vs a world class shooter/rifle combination.
If there's enough interest, I can show that comparison using actual targets I've shot in winning ARA State Championships and my runner-up finish in the ARA National Championship this year.

Weather is lousy here in Nebraska and I can't do any farming today, so I'm pounding away at the keyboard to keep from getting bored. LOL

Landy

 

[lion]

Landy;
You should have come to Lincoln sunday and shot in the rain with us. I learned just how bad a martini international can shoot with ammo it doesn't like. Shot 695 my first target. Still had fun though. Wayne

 

[HuskerP7M8]

Wayne,
A 695....Ouch! Is that a record low score for you? LOL
I'll also bet you indeed had more fun than me. I was upside-down using a cutting torch and sledge hammer to change out a fried bearing on a 4" shaft. I'm getting to old for that kind of stuff! I had no fun whatsoever!
Did you have a good turnout?
Landy

 

[lion]

We had 17 shooters. First 3 targets were fun shoot & last 3 were custom guns. I won the second half. It helped ease the pain a little since I was low on the first 3. Second 3 I was using my homemade Martini with the same ammo. First target was a 2150. I have never seen a martini hate ammo like mine did. It was wolf match extra. I honestly didn't know a martini international could shoot that bad, Wayne

 

[jbell]

Husker, that's awesome! Thanks for breaking it down this way its very informative! What program is that?

 

[jbell]

Also looking at the aiming point and the center point (green VS blue chrosshair) shows how poorly I was reading the right to left wind that I was shooting in. There is a lot of good information in your post! Cool stuff...

 

[HuskerP7M8]

Also looking at the aiming point and the center point (green VS blue chrosshair) shows how poorly I was reading the right to left wind that I was shooting in. There is a lot of good information in your post! Cool stuff...

jbell,

I use a combination of very sophisticated analytical and statistical software packages to quantify accuracy and precision in a ballistic testing facility I built quite a few years ago. The screenshot above is from Jeff Block's OnTarget TDS:
OnTarget TDS Features
and as you noticed it's helpful in studying the accuracy component of firearm testing. The precision component of firearm testing, in this case, would be answered by the statistic "ATC" (Average to Center).

Don't beat yourself up about being a click high and a click left. I typically see more targets worse than yours, rather than better when shot in a tricky wind. In my tunnel or an indoor match, my goal is to average less than 1/3 click off and keep the ATC below 0.100".

Landy

 

[yoteman]

looks like better weather this weekend,
may have some ammo here, before then,
son is really wanting to give this a go.
i will let you know
Jesse hope to have some mojo lot# soon
my bud came thru, thanks chikn

 

[justin amateur]

Best target of this mornings range trip.
Winds swinging from my 4 to 8 at 4 to 12 mph.
Wind ribbon kept dancing all over.
When I caught a lull it's obvious, POI is almost POA

 

[JG26_Irish]

Dot Shoot

This Saturday, I was practicing with my hunting rifle, a Win Mod 52 and decided to shoot the dot shoot at 50yds with it for grins. I was using Wolf Match Extra ammo. Weather was perfect, wind was non-existent and while the results are not going to set any records, it was good for that fine old rifle with a cheap scope. Overall average from center was 0.213". Pic attached.

All the shooting was done at 50yds from a bench off of two piece sand bag rests similar to F-class. Scope is a 6-24x mil-dot recticle. It was fun, is hard. I want to try it with my tgt rifle, when I get time.

Irish

 

[justin amateur]

If that's what happens with the huntin' rifle and a mid grade ammo,
I really wanna see the results from your target rifle and the good stuff..

 

[JG26_Irish]

If that's what happens with the huntin' rifle and a mid grade ammo,
I really wanna see the results from your target rifle and the good stuff..

Truth is the tgt rifle does not shoot all that much better than the Mod 52. Few stock factory mass produced rifles do. The Winnie is 82 yrs old but is still one of the best ever. And a good lot of Wolf ammo will shoot just as good as Center-X for me. My tgt rifle is a nice old Rem Mod 540XR and out shoots the Winchester mostly due to having a much better scope on it and a tgt stock.

I just picked up a 2nd mod 540XR yesterday and will keep the peeps on it. It looks new. Not even any wear marks on the bolt. There was some powder residue in the bbl, so it has been fired but is still in very, very nice condition (99%++) for a 40 yrs old rifle. Needless to say, I am very pleased with the purchase.

Irish