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Soooo.. We blew one up
- Thread starter Blackeyes
- Start date
Sounds like he became complacent. It's evident he fucked up somehow regardless of how much experience he had loading. I'd bet almost anything it was a full charge of pistol powder powder because that's the only thing that does exactly what's been described, every time. It's a nasty kaboom at the chamber and receiver.
Too bad he didn't have a magnetospeed attached when it happened, he may have set a new speed record for a projectile from a shoulder fired weapon. The bullet is probably still circling in outer orbit.
why does every story like this always contain the phrase "hit the forward assist"? Not to pile on with everyone else, but there is almost never a reason to push that thing. Seriously, I think people just thinks it looks cool to hit it at this point.
also, so many reloading mistakes here. I am sure your friend realizes all this now, but for anyone randomly reading this online, if you think you made some questionable ammunition; just pull it all apart. Definitely DO NOT go take it to a match or live fire training. And as one poster mentioned, visually check your cases for powder. Too much, and zero are both the wrong amount of powder to have in the case.
this reminds me of getting my motorcycle license and they talk about the "crash chain". It is usually not one thing that causes an accident, it is a series of small things all in a row.
also, so many reloading mistakes here. I am sure your friend realizes all this now, but for anyone randomly reading this online, if you think you made some questionable ammunition; just pull it all apart. Definitely DO NOT go take it to a match or live fire training. And as one poster mentioned, visually check your cases for powder. Too much, and zero are both the wrong amount of powder to have in the case.
this reminds me of getting my motorcycle license and they talk about the "crash chain". It is usually not one thing that causes an accident, it is a series of small things all in a row.
Uh if the gun fails to fire and you know its loaded the #1 reason would be the bolt not being locked and out of battery, especially if the gun is dirty. Forward assist is the first thing you would hit during remedial action and if it pushed the bolt forward you would assume that is what caused the failure to fire.
The AR does not have a fixed charging handle like almost every gun out there, it needs the FA for a variety of reasons. My HK33 clone has seriated groves on outside of bolt, know how much that sucks to try and use to get the bolt to close?
I'm going to guess you have no time in the military. Sometimes its nice to charge a weapon without letting anyone know you are there.
Read it in context. While shooting reloads, at a bench, having multiple problens, there is "almost never a reason" to use a forward assist.
Serious question. If you are really sneaking up on someone, are you going into that situation with an empty weapon that needs to be charged? I'm not special ops like 80% of this forum so I have no clue how all that works. Seems like a grossly overused exception vs normal practice.
Serious question. If you are really sneaking up on someone, are you going into that situation with an empty weapon that needs to be charged? I'm not special ops like 80% of this forum so I have no clue how all that works. Seems like a grossly overused exception vs normal practice.
I am sorry, but no. this is completely wrong. If the gun is loaded, and it fails to fire, you need to figure out why. Not start banging on it. If the round didn't chamber all the way, there is probably a reason. Is the round too long, wrong caliber, feed malfunction, dirty ammunition, chamber obstruction, etc. None of these things are fixed by smashing that forward assist.
Yes being able to charge your weapon without giving your position away is something that matters. For guns like the AR that don't have a fixed CH, you need something to quietly go into battery because the spring tensions is not always enough. It can be done while holding the charring handle with some tension and pressing the FA at the same time so the bolt doesn't slam forward making a sound. Basic scout/recon shit.
Like I said you have no experience in the military and don't know what you are talking about.
Only an idiot puts the wrong caliber in a gun so don't have to worry about that.
Don't use reloads in working guns or any Semi autos so don't have to worry about that
Dirty ammo/Gun/Lack of lube could result in you needing to use the FA to get the gun back up.
Don't use garbage gear and half ass reloads and 99% of your problems will go away. If you guns are toys and you never use them for anything but playing games, then yea a FA is useless.
You'll leave the wire with weapons loaded but there are circumstances while on patrol that may require you to unload the rifle. Doing maintenance for example, which may occur in a patrol base where you don't want to make a bunch of noise.
This thread has done a fine job in identifying the requirements differences between amateur range day and scout/snipers in combat.
A Ghillie has its place too, but I’d steer clear if I saw one on the line at Altus.
Range day = eye pro and troubleshooting patience.
A Ghillie has its place too, but I’d steer clear if I saw one on the line at Altus.
Range day = eye pro and troubleshooting patience.
Had one pistol squib early in my reloading career. Scared me enough to put the fear on n me from then on out.
"Why would I beat something into the chamber that don't want to go on its own" - Clint Smith
Might not apply to fire-fights with an AR15 in a foreign land, but probably good advice to consider when punching paper at the local range.
Might not apply to fire-fights with an AR15 in a foreign land, but probably good advice to consider when punching paper at the local range.
THIS. Tear EVERYTHING down to components, pay attention to powder charges. If it's what you suspect, you'll have more than one I'm sure. Sorry. I hope it ain't a big ass batch.
If the discrepancy is big enough and you feel comfortable enough doing this, you can weigh the completed rounds and look for bad ones that way (which is what I just noticed hlee is saying). They'll all be off a little bit but not 25gr. off or whatever you're working with.
BTDT, but I did it in a Glock and well, everyone knows Glocks are indestructible. Seriously, I did it in a Beretta too, two rounds after the Glock went out of commission. THANK GOD the kid that it clicked on stopped and handed me the weapon --Army doesn't look too well on guys that bring personally owned firearms to work and then blow up their soldiers. I had to tear down a few hundred 9mm loads (believe it or not, pulling the plated bullets didn't affect accuracy with 'em one bit). I also tore down a bunch of .357 loaded the same time, found the same problem.
Fucking hate squibs, bane of my existence. I love my 650 but I find that weighing each charge is still worth it.
You're right --when it's working right. I'd assume by the KB that something wasn't working right either with the rifle or the ammo.
Anytime that firing pin is protruding and impacts that primer with enough force the weapon will fire, in or out of battery. It can be caused by kinetic energy (dropping the rifle from a second floor onto concrete muzzle first) but you'd have to slam the FA with amazing force in order to force fire it like that.
But unless the barrel is blocked, chances of it blowing back and out with that much force seems rare.
What can happen, and what I've seen before (recently in fact) is debris in the action, usually in the form of a primer that somehow gets chewed up and binds up the bolt group.
I would put my money on a case charged with pistol powder. That seems to fit with the split breech. But there's gotta be something to the fact that it was malfunctioning prior to the KB...
OP, if you can ever get your buddy to send you some pics it would be a big help. It would make for a good PSA.
I do like having a forward assist for closing the action quietly. I hunt with my ARs and I don't carry my rifles loaded usually to where I'm hunting. Because I'm walking usually over a mile or two at 5am on steep and often slick ground. I've gotten to my stand more than a few times and found the safety has been swiped off at some point during the trek.
I don't want to have to spend all that time getting to my stand quietly as possible to then charge my AR so I spook everything for half a mile. So I do the balancing act between the charging handle and forward assist to load it quietly.
But I've never used it for a malfunction. If I'm at the range and have a malfunction I just stop. I only run factory ammo in guns I train to defend myself with. I only reload for hunting/match ammo which is always fired slow and deliberate.
OP, if you can ever get your buddy to send you some pics it would be a big help. It would make for a good PSA.
I do like having a forward assist for closing the action quietly. I hunt with my ARs and I don't carry my rifles loaded usually to where I'm hunting. Because I'm walking usually over a mile or two at 5am on steep and often slick ground. I've gotten to my stand more than a few times and found the safety has been swiped off at some point during the trek.
I don't want to have to spend all that time getting to my stand quietly as possible to then charge my AR so I spook everything for half a mile. So I do the balancing act between the charging handle and forward assist to load it quietly.
But I've never used it for a malfunction. If I'm at the range and have a malfunction I just stop. I only run factory ammo in guns I train to defend myself with. I only reload for hunting/match ammo which is always fired slow and deliberate.
An ar firing pin cannot reach the primer if the bolt is completely unlocked. It can fire when its partially unlocked (and it really is just barely), but partially unlocked is still in battery. Even in a slamfire, the bolt is locked. When you hit the forward assist because the carrier didnt quite close all the way, the bolt is already locked.
Yeah. There were similarities to the OP's failure but my friends event didn't rupture the breach. It destroyed the upper and lower and if I remember right, the rifle appeared to be slightly bent upward in the middle. He sent it back to the manufacturer (Rock River) for analysis and it was their conclusion that the failure was due to improper reloads. They said it was almost a detonation. He told them that he suspected the reloads were loaded with pistol powder. And they said that was consistent with what they saw. It's been quite a few years ago now and memories fade and all that. But, I clearly remember the sight of that buckled rifle and the pistol powder cause.
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