Stupid question of the day: Barrel Brake vs. caliber

[reewik]

Ok, so my stupid question of the day is a simple one:

How much does caliber size effect the efficiency of a barrel brake?

OR

Would there be a noticeable difference using a brake designed for .308 on a .243/6mm vs using a .243/6mm brake.

 

[diverdon]

Your question is interesting, but I have always looked at it the other way. From .260 down I just don't need a brake. From 30-06 they are optional. From .300 WM up I will not shoot long strings well without a brake. From .338 LM up shooting a single shot without a brake would be a silly stunt or a matter of live and death.

 

[lash]

A number of people have done studies, from basic to more advanced to answer that very question. The simplest answer is that it doesn't make as much difference between brake sizes as much as having a brake vs. not having a brake does. Brakes are relatively cheap, so getting one in the correct size shouldn't be a big deal, but if you just only happen to have a .30 brake and want to use it on your 6 or 6.5, you will still get decent results.

 

[SubOptimal]

I have used a 223 brake on a 6.5 rifle simply because I had one. Simple matter to chuck it up in a lathe and bore it 0.040 over the size. Actually I went 0.040 over the new bore size so nearly 7 mm. Brake is effective.

 

[Monk Medic]

“a matter or life or death.”?
Please explain.

 

[lash]

I'm pretty sure that was a humorous way to say that the recoil on a .338 is pretty stiff and that he wants nothing to do with it without a brake. At least that's how I read it.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I can shoot sub MOA 50 .300 H&H and call my own shot. Recoil is so over rated. Brakes look cool though. And don't forget about bragging rights. Coming up to the line in slow motion Ozzy Osborn in the backgound. Everybody with a hard on because of that brake. Feels good.

 

[reewik]

Guys, I am asking the effectiveness of a brake of the same caliber as the ammo, not the practicality or need for a brake. I shoot with a brake, without a brake and suppressed so I understand the difference. I am just asking if the caliber specific brake makes a difference or not. Its a pretty simple question so please keep it simple. If you do not know, you do not know, it's no big deal.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Define effectiveness of a brake of the same caliber as the ammo.

This doesn't cut it..

"
Would there be a noticeable difference using a brake designed for .308 on a .243/6mm vs using a .243/6mm brake."

Doesn't matter. I know what you mean...

Loss in brake performance. Like hooking up a 4 ohms speaker to a 8 ohms amp. Works harder not smarter.

 

[reewik]

Ok so:

.243 thru a .243 size brake vs .243 thru a .308 brake.

Is one more effective then the other is the question?

I guess at this point it is pointless but I am asking a stupid question, remember.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I know and no problem. I edit my post above. It is economical for hunting but not high bullet count.

 

[HoustonB77]

Yes the correct brake will be more effective but probably not enough to matter.

 

[lash]

Guys, I am asking the effectiveness of a brake of the same caliber as the ammo, not the practicality or need for a brake. I shoot with a brake, without a brake and suppressed so I understand the difference. I am just asking if the caliber specific brake makes a difference or not. Its a pretty simple question so please keep it simple. If you do not know, you do not know, it's no big deal.

I answered you in post #3. If you are looking for actual numbers of decibels difference, then it really is a stupid question, unless you are purely going for an academic answer. As has now been said at least three times, it doesn't make a noticeable difference. That's exactly what you asked, correct?

 

[reewik]

I answered you in post #3. If you are looking for actual numbers of decibels difference, then it really is a stupid question, unless you are purely going for an academic answer. As has now been said at least three times, it doesn't make a noticeable difference. That's exactly what you asked, correct?

I read your post and yes that answered part of the question. I am looking for someone that has compared the two. Your answer was stating that " people" have done studies. Then a generic answer, no that's not what I was looking for. I thought my question was pretty simple, I guess it was not.

Maybe I am asking too much or just asking the question wrong I am not sure.

 

[lash]

You asked if it made a noticeable difference. Three people have told you that it doesn't, and that's apparently not what you want to hear. So, yes, you must be asking the wrong question.

Edit: so, I know it sounds like I'm being brusk. In any case, I can tell you that I use a .30 can 9" long on my .260 and have compared it to others that have 6.5 cans and to the ear, you cannot tell the difference. TBAC has videos on U-tube showing very little difference when using a larger than caliber can vs. a properly sized can for the caliber. There IS a difference, but it is minimal. Yes, you asked about brakes, but there is a correlation between the two.

 

[reewik]

You asked if it made a noticeable difference. Three people have told you that it doesn't, and that's apparently not what you want to hear. So, yes, you must be asking the wrong question.

Edit: so, I know it sounds like I'm being brusk. In any case, I can tell you that I use a .30 can 9" long on my .260 and have compared it to others that have 6.5 cans and to the ear, you cannot tell the difference. TBAC has videos on U-tube showing very little difference when using a larger than caliber can vs. a properly sized can for the caliber. There IS a difference, but it is minimal. Yes, you asked about brakes, but there is a correlation between the two.

See now Lash, was that so hard. (No worries, I have a think skin) I too shoot a .30 cal can with my 6.5 cm and 5.56. I have not seen a side by side comparison of the difference other than you tube which does not tell the story at all. I am not asking for just the difference in felt recoil. I am also asking if the POI shift with the larger dimension brake is more prominent too. So by asking about efficiency I am asking about the brakes ability to lessen recoil and to lessen the POI shift. I would think there would be a difference, however I could be wrong. Keep in mind I am not talking about the difference at 100 or even 700 yards I am talking about the difference at 1000 yards and more.

 

[lash]

So here's where I go off the reservation again. I do not need a brake or suppressor at all to see my impacts at 1000+, with any of those calibers. If you can see impacts at the shorter distances, then seeing them at the long distances is gravy.

And I'll say that if you cannot see your impacts at 1000+ due to "rifle hop", then you need to be worrying much more about improving your fundamentals than which brake to use.

Other than that, I don't have anymore data for you.

 

[reewik]

So here's where I go off the reservation again. I do not need a brake or suppressor at all to see my impacts at 1000+, with any of those calipers. If you can see impacts at the shorter distances, then seeing them at the long distances is gravy.

And I'll say that if you cannot see your impacts at 1000+ due to "rifle hop", then you need to be worrying much more about improving your fundamentals than which brake to use.

Other than that, I don't have anymore data for you.

I can see my impacts just fine brother... I think somewhere we have lost each other with this. Anyway, as you said you have given me answers to think about so I thank you for that.

 

[T2CH]

So you are asking how effective a break is with smaller calibers and now what POI shift change may or may not be using said breaks. Correct?

Breaks are designed to reduce recoil, essentially. But if not designed and machined properly they can (and usually will) throw the POI off. Its all about catching the gas expelled and pulling the rifle forward during bullet exit from the muzzle.

So, if a .30 cal break is used on a .30 cal rifle, the break should be more effective because the break should "break" more of the gas.
If using a .6mm bullet with a .30 cal break there is more space between the bullet and the baffles of the break so theoretically more gas will pass straight through the break.

As mentioned several times above, I doubt anyone would notice the difference.

As for POI change I would think there could be more of a shift because of the larger gap between the bullet and the baffles. Only testing with live rounds will give you the correct answer.

 

[Bender]

For the love of Cordite.....it’s BRAKE.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Sort of ruins the entire dissertation when the wrong homonym is used. Especially, when the correct one is a noun and the one being used is a verb.

"So, if a .30 cal break is used on a .30 cal rifle, the break should be more effective because the break should "break" more of the gas.
If using a .6mm bullet with a .30 cal break there is more space between the bullet and the baffles of the break so theoretically more gas will pass straight through the break."

 

[reewik]

Well I am gonna find this out myself as the rifle I just bought has a 6mm brake on a .243 barrel for the 6mm bullet.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Okay, can you give us a timeframe for the imperical metric tests?

 

[reewik]

Okay, can you give us a timeframe for the imperical metric tests?

Lol... NO!

 

[lash]

Lol... NO!

You learn quickly Grasshopper.

 

[T2CH]

For the love of Cordite.....it’s BRAKE.

Damnit!
I will say not the most embarrassing public humiliation I've done to myself...

 

[G5guy]

Guys, I am asking the effectiveness of a brake of the same caliber as the ammo, not the practicality or need for a brake. I shoot with a brake, without a brake and suppressed so I understand the difference. I am just asking if the caliber specific brake makes a difference or not. Its a pretty simple question so please keep it simple. If you do not know, you do not know, it's no big deal.

I think some guys reply just so they can see their name in print. I understand your frustration with answers that don't really answer your question. Sorry but I can't answer your technical question. But I do want to know the true answer.

 

[AR10ShooterinNC]

From the Precision Rifle Blog:

I ran tests to see how much it mattered if a muzzle brake was caliber-specific, and those results were also surprising. I tested the effectiveness of having a caliber-specific brake on 4 very different muzzle brake designs that I had in all calibers: the APA Little B*, Holland 1.25” Radial QD Brake, Impact Precision Brake, and West Texas Ordnance Brake. I only found an improvement of 1-3% if a brake was 6mm rather than 30 caliber (7.62mm).
To be clear, I tried the 6mm, 6.5mm, and 30 caliber brakes all on the 6XC, and in all 4 muzzle brake designs, there was only a difference of 1-3% in recoil reduction in terms of both overall momentum and peak force. That surprised me. I expected the caliber size of the bullet hole in the brake to make more of a difference. But, that’s why I actually run the tests and don’t just talk about this stuff!

 

[reewik]

Awesome response that answered my question perfectly!!!!!