T1x 50 vs 100 yards

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Boltyboi

dirty little vortex whore
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Jul 25, 2019
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#1
I'm pretty new to the long range game and have been focusing on learning with a T1x. Rifle is in a bravo chassis, and has a pst ii 5-25, and is adjusted properly to me, so I dont expect an equipment issue to be at fault here.

I'm shooting CCI SV as its avalible local and a good value.

My question is, at 50 yards, I can shoot lights out with the gun. 1 moa all the time and commonly a lot lower (one ragged hole) with 5 shots.

Once I bump that up to 100 yards however, my groups open up dramaticaly. Usually about 2 inches, with mostly vertical stringing.

Is expecting inch ish groups at 100 unreasonable for this rifle? Is this an ammo issue, should I upgrade to match ammo? Or could this be a technique issue?

Thanks
 
#2
I’m in the same boat as you, as far as newness goes. I’ve only been shooting for about 14 months, so I’m sure there are plenty of guys and girls here that can provide much better feedback. From my own (limited) experiences, I’d say yes to both. First try really focusing on technique with the ammo that you have. Try to keep everything on your part as consistent as possible from shot to shot. If you don’t see any improvement, try some match ammo. Hell, try some anyways. I’ve shot 1” groups with my T1x at 100 with SK Long Range Match in the factory stock, so it is possible.
 
#3
Expect triple the group size when you double the distance from muzzle to target.
Not an exact ratio, but close enough.

Talking with Cody at CCI, I was told to expect CCI SV
would average about 2 moa/2+ inches at 100 yards.

Note....average...not going to be consistent.
Some will stray, some will surprise.
It's not intended to be competition quality ammo.
Just inexpensive 22lr for use when the results aren't important.
 
#4
The T1X is capable of doing better than 2 MOA. In stock for don't expect a 1 MOA average, but you should be in the low 1's (1.25" ish) at 100 with good ammo. That's about where my T1X settled in. Read through the T1X thread and pay attention to what Littlepod has to say. He's done a lot of work with the T1X.
 
#5
Boltyboi said:
I'm pretty new to the long range game and have been focusing on learning with a T1x. Rifle is in a bravo chassis, and has a pst ii 5-25, and is adjusted properly to me, so I dont expect an equipment issue to be at fault here.

I'm shooting CCI SV as its avalible local and a good value.

My question is, at 50 yards, I can shoot lights out with the gun. 1 moa all the time and commonly a lot lower (one ragged hole) with 5 shots.

Once I bump that up to 100 yards however, my groups open up dramaticaly. Usually about 2 inches, with mostly vertical stringing.

Is expecting inch ish groups at 100 unreasonable for this rifle? Is this an ammo issue, should I upgrade to match ammo? Or could this be a technique issue?

Thanks
Click to expand...

All of my guns will shoot CCI SV sub moa at 50yds and some times at 100 yds. But the wheels fall off past 100 yds. My T1x can shoot sub moa out to 150yds with Wolf Match Extra, Eley Club, and SK Match Rifle.
It is your ammo, not your gun.

Mark
 
#6
If you want to shoot sub MOA in a Tikka @100 y its simple. Use SK rifle match ammo. CCI is great standard velocity ammo. Its great at 50y. But 22's will start to really open up at 100 and wind plays a large factor as well. I have about 3k rounds on my Tikka T1x right now. I have shot every ammo known to man, I settled on CCI standard for trigger time and fun at 50. I use SK standard rifle for matches and poking out over 100
 
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#7
My T1X is the only rifle I own that shoots CCI SV decent, my Savage shot the old SV pretty good, not so much with the newer stuff. IMHO if you want to shoot better at 100 yards, buy better ammo.
 
#8
Is expecting inch ish groups at 100 unreasonable for this rifle?

Take a look at the results of the 6x5 over the past 4 or 5 years.
How many of them show sub-moa at 50, 100 and 200 yards with CCI SV?
And those are the results/targets that are worth seeing, not the culled ones.


Kinda gives you an idea of what to really expect from a variety of rifles and ammunition, eh?. :D
 
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#9
justin amateur said:
Expect triple the group size when you double the distance from muzzle to target.
Not an exact ratio, but close enough.

Talking with Cody at CCI, I was told to expect CCI SV
would average about 2 moa/2+ inches at 100 yards.

Note....average...not going to be consistent.
Some will stray, some will surprise.
It's not intended to be competition quality ammo.
Just inexpensive 22lr for use when the results aren't important.
Click to expand...

That's reassuring. Pretty much exactly the results I'm seeing.

Thanks everybody!
 
#11
Another case of ammo inconsistency. I'll run a lot of CCI SV or HP through my rifle for positional practice, especially unsupported. I don't want to burn good match ammo on that. With my T1x and 12x SWFA, good ammo has no problem with sub 1" at 100yds. I rant eh rifle in NRL22 open class last year with a grs stock and PST gen2 shooting Lapua Polar Biathlon. That rifle and ammo combo could easily hold .75 or better at 100 in calm conditions. The 22lr long game is all about good ammo and finding what your rifle likes. Generally speaking, you get what you pay for in ammo and it shows.
 
#14
Over the past year and a half, I've been chronographing all the varieties of rimfire I can get my hands on.
22lr, 22wmr, 17 hmr and 17 wsm, the entire box of 50, tracking numbers and results.
Funny thing, cartridge quality is what ends up being important.
Not brand or labeling, only cartridge quality.
I've had cheap ammo do surprisingly well, with tight chrony numbers to back it up,
and high end big name ammo that ended up pistol fodder because it just wasn't good enough.
When you can see dents, dings, scratches, irregular shaped drive bands,
bullet material crimped down over the brass and mv spread in excess of 50 fps between 2 shots
your results will be unsatisfactory.

Before blaming yourself or your rifle, invest in a ballistic chronograph.
Use it to understand why your results are what they are.
Run a visual inspection before chambering your cartridges.
Watch what happens to the trajectories of the bullets with defects
compared to those that are symmetrical and uniform.

A 5 shot group is a random act of accuracy.
A 10 shot cluster is a wallet group.
30 shots is a good start.
50 shots is what I consider the minimum needed when testing.
100 shots recorded gives me confidence in my conclusions.
 
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#16
Yeah and RWS made Federal match. They shoot differently in my gun. Your comment is ignorant. Not in the since of name calling, but in your logic. Lapua makes 5 different 22 lr just for them selves. There is a reason, they perform differently .
 
#17
Out of my rifle


Norma Match 22 is excellent at 50 and great at 100 and good at 150.
Federal Ultra Match, Lapua center X, Eley Tenex are better than Norma.
SK Biathlon, Long Range are my go to rounds for NRL22.
CCI SV is just good for trigger time
 
#18
Funny mine shoots SK Biathlon sport best and SK Long range second best. Better than Tenex or Midas plus. My CZ452 shoots SK biathlon and Midas plus about the same, maybe a bit more consistent with the Midas +. Each rifle will have it's own favorites. You need to test most all of the available ammo from SK, Lapua, Eley, and RWS to really know (depending on your budget). To me it seems like SK is the best bang for the buck. If you really want the best you need to lot test the best shooters.
 
#20
Sadly, my rifles have no favorites. :(
What shoots well from this ammo delivery, produces strays the next.
Bloody rifles keep changing their minds as to what they like.
First it's Eley Match, then SK Biathlon Sport, then CenterX, then a box of CCI Blazer does amazing
but the next delivery shows a whole new run of favorites. I must be doing something wrong.
Or maybe, it's the quality of the ammo that changes due to production variations on the ammo assembly line. ;)

Welcome to the rimfire lottery.
Ya' pays y'er money, ya' takes y'er chances. :D
 
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#22
Not really. I don't shoot indoors so the wind always affects my results.
The time of flight allows problems with cartridge quality to be amplified.
Shows up extremely well when you can see the trajectory wobble against the white of the backer.
I'm using wind-i-cators, a chronograph and run a visual inspection before chambering.
I can tell when a stray is wind, mv or if cartridge defects are the cause.
Try it for y'erself. Head out to a 200 yard range, use a ballistic chronograph,
and record all 50 shots on a single target to correlate y'er results.
It won't take long for ya' to understand what I'm describing.


What started out as an excuse to burn up a bunch of odd boxes of 22lr hiding in the back of my stash
has ended up educating me in regards as to how rimfire ammunition quality affects our results.
What I used to blame on me, or the rifle, or wind, or supersonic transition,
ends up being actually caused by production problems with the ammo.
 
Last edited:
#23
Tomiboy said:
Justin, don't you think testing at 200, like you do, brings in a lot more variables with the wind at that distance?
Click to expand...


I have been fighting a t1x for the last couple months that was doing just what you're describing. Group size grows disproportionately past 50, plus I was getting odd group shifting.

A local rimfire wizard finally saved me and took it for a week. He stripped the bolt and also discovered the barrel retention screws were really really tight, he's guessing 60in/lbs, maybe worse.

He took them out and retorqued to 30 in/lbs and the gun is far more consistent and 100 yard groups were between .7-1.5 in.

It's waaay better now.

I love that tikka
 
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#24
Boltyboi said:
I'm pretty new to the long range game and have been focusing on learning with a T1x. Rifle is in a bravo chassis, and has a pst ii 5-25, and is adjusted properly to me, so I dont expect an equipment issue to be at fault here.

I'm shooting CCI SV as its avalible local and a good value.

My question is, at 50 yards, I can shoot lights out with the gun. 1 moa all the time and commonly a lot lower (one ragged hole) with 5 shots.

Once I bump that up to 100 yards however, my groups open up dramaticaly. Usually about 2 inches, with mostly vertical stringing.

Is expecting inch ish groups at 100 unreasonable for this rifle? Is this an ammo issue, should I upgrade to match ammo? Or could this be a technique issue?

Thanks
Click to expand...
Give Lapua Center X a try. It shoots very good in my T1X
 
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#25
justin amateur said:
Sadly, my rifles have no favorites. :(
What shoots well from this ammo delivery, produces strays the next.
Bloody rifles keep changing their minds as to what they like.
First it's Eley Match, then SK Biathlon Sport, then CenterX, then a box of CCI Blazer does amazing
but the next delivery shows a whole new run of favorites. I must be doing something wrong.
Or maybe, it's the quality of the ammo that changes due to production variations on the ammo assembly line. ;)

Welcome to the rimfire lottery.
Ya' pays y'er money, ya' takes y'er chances. :D
Click to expand...
That is why you need to lot test rimfire ammo. 22 rimfire is a bitch. Learn to lot test ammo
 
#26
If my results with rimfire were important, I would lot test.
But since it's just a hobby and how I warm up before using my centerfire rigs, lot testing is not necessary.
Sending 50 to 100 rounds of rimfire at 200 yards, reminds me of what I forgot since my last trip to the range.
Better some rimfire warmup than wasting my precious handloads. ;)
 
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#30
goneballistic said:
I have been fighting a t1x for the last couple months that was doing just what you're describing. Group size grows disproportionately past 50, plus I was getting odd group shifting.

A local rimfire wizard finally saved me and took it for a week. He stripped the bolt and also discovered the barrel retention screws were really really tight, he's guessing 60in/lbs, maybe worse.

He took them out and retorqued to 30 in/lbs and the gun is far more consistent and 100 yard groups were between .7-1.5 in.

It's waaay better now.

I love that tikka
Click to expand...
And now you're able to go 6 for 6 on a 1" steel target at 100 yds in 10 mph winds.. You owned that stage!!!

@rimfirewizard?
 
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