Texas grid-here we go again.

[RGStory]

Off the top of my head, Riverside County in California for one. Unless things have changed since the last time I looked it up a year or two ago..

In order to have a solar system installed and up to "code" it has to A. be on the power grid. No off the grid systems allowed, B. cannot have power storage on property.

Just looked at their ordinance. It references the state Solar Permitting Guidebook. Looking through the guidebook, it appears there is a way to do it, but FML if I am going to take the time to unravel that bloated piece of trash. Its tons of paperwork and filings to use the non-expedited forms.

The expedited checklist is the simplest and clearly what they intended everyone to use. It states:
"C. System does not utilize storage batteries, charge controllers, or trackers - Yes or No?"

It seems clear as to why:
"The first California Solar Guidebook was published in 2012, the result of a collective effort of stakeholders from local government, the building industry, professional associations, solar companies, utility providers and state regulatory agencies. Many local permitting agencies adopted practices and standard documents outlined in the Guidebook. These practices made installing solar less expensive and increased expansion of this technology in California."

California literally let the utility industry write the damned guidebook that all city municipalities reference. Its like they just let the utility companies write the fucking law themselves.

 

[missed]

Like said above because the utility controls. SDGE, SC Edison PGE are all in the same corrupt scam.

 

[Jgunner]

And why no power storage on property?

Clearly to keep you dependent on the system. I know when i talked about solar in my area, they too disallowed batteries(they got sued and lost) and if you wanted your own home fed first instead of the grid it was $4500 more. 10 years ago......

I kicked that salesman out so fast he was stuttering. I was curious more than interested. Since then i built a small solar system enough to power lights and outlets, run a refrigerator just not ac, for $2500 bucks. Its not large or keep anything going for more than a few days of no sun, but fuck me its cheaper than losing food when the power shits the bed. Prob dor another $1500 incould run a window ac for 2-3 days which is enough where i live. Tons of sun and if the sun isn’t out you dont need much ac.

 

[Snuby642]

What a racket, take your solar power and sell it back to you?

Have controll of your "grid" and thermostat?

Were they eyeballing your wife and beer?

WTF

 

[lash]

Just looked at their ordinance. It references the state Solar Permitting Guidebook. Looking through the guidebook, it appears there is a way to do it, but FML if I am going to take the time to unravel that bloated piece of trash. Its tons of paperwork and filings to use the non-expedited forms.

The expedited checklist is the simplest and clearly what they intended everyone to use. It states:
"C. System does not utilize storage batteries, charge controllers, or trackers - Yes or No?"

It seems clear as to why:
"The first California Solar Guidebook was published in 2012, the result of a collective effort of stakeholders from local government, the building industry, professional associations, solar companies, utility providers and state regulatory agencies. Many local permitting agencies adopted practices and standard documents outlined in the Guidebook. These practices made installing solar less expensive and increased expansion of this technology in California."

California literally let the utility industry write the damned guidebook that all city municipalities reference. Its like they just let the utility companies write the fucking law themselves.

This is a common practice, not only in government situations, but in industry in general. You weren’t under the mistaken notion that politicians write the bills that they introduce, were you?

What a racket, take your solar power and sell it back to you?

Have controll of your "grid" and thermostat?

Were they eyeballing your wife and beer?

WTF

Yes,
Yes,
And yes.

Same in Florida.

 

[TXAZ]

After the Texas freeze, I realized Florida could have power problems too someday.
Freeze, hurricanes, grid hackers, asteroids, whatever.
Motivated me to learn about solar. Started the solar project in March, doing a little at a time.
This month, son & I finished installing enough panels & electronics to keep the lights & refrigerator on, and also run the well pump (our only source of water).
View attachment 7653364

Nice setup. We did something very similar.
We installed 15 KW of solar 2 years ago and expect it will pay off in 8 more years.
For us, using the grid as storage via net metering made more sense than trying to add batteries on-site. In the event of a grid failure, we also installed an 18KW Generac with automatic switching. Why not get batteries? Because batteries may be (affordable and) usable for a few hours to a day, but longer than that get ridiculously expensive. Further, snowmageddon showed us that a dual fuel whole home generator is substantially more affordable and reliable than batteries for extended periods.

 

[GrantB]

Most of the rules from nerc for the electric industry are written by industry. Nerc says that want to regulate X and a drafting team composed of individuals from the industry draft the regs and nerc approves them. Who would you like to draft these rules , industry or a bureaucrat. I remember years ago there was a black out in the Northeast Congress passed a law to address that issue. Years later another black out happened and I remember a quote from one of the northeastern senators saying how did this happen, we passed a law to stop this. Are those the people you really want writing all the regulations not only for critical infrastructure but for automobiles lawnmowers household chemicals the list goes on and on. I see Congress and bureaucrats have done an excellent job at firearm regulations. Heck most every standard that the government refers to is produced by the industry like IEEE And many others. The real knowledge is in the private sector, government is kinda like a boss that knows nothing but must approve everything.

 

[NoDopes]

In Texas, you can (with approved provider) net meter back to grid, but you only get wholesale on excess, but pay transit fees on all consumed electricity, which is 3.5c higher/Kw. Sol-Ark just reduced their prices for Hybrid controller.. $6200 for 12KW that can run when grid is down, supports plug-and-play any LifePo4 battery bank (48v) and will also auto-turn on a generator when batteries get low. I've bought most of the equipment, but plan on controlling my usage and when crazy ass Texas raises wholesale price of energy to $9/kwh, I'm going to go full battery/generator and push all solar onto the grid while reducing consumption. I'll only need 133 hours at $9/kwh to pay for the whole damn thing.

 

[GrantB]

Be careful with planning long term and trying to make a buck off the utility company. If you can do it others will also and when that happens your public service commission will step in and not allow the utilities to be harmed. What’s more important a few people trying to make a buck or billion dollar companies that keep the whole state going.

 

[NoDopes]

Be careful with planning long term and trying to make a buck off the utility company. If you can do it others will also and when that happens your public service commission will step in and not allow the utilities to be harmed. What’s more important a few people trying to make a buck or billion dollar companies that keep the whole state going.

Yep.. I don't care if they turned it off now... but the whole 'free-market pricing adder-fees' in Texas on the electric grid is just fucked up. I'll take advantage as long as it's there... they call it 'free-market'.. fine...

 

[lash]

Be careful with planning long term and trying to make a buck off the utility company. If you can do it others will also and when that happens your public service commission will step in and not allow the utilities to be harmed. What’s more important a few people trying to make a buck or billion dollar companies that keep the whole state going.

You didn’t ask that right, because the answer is the little guy trying to provide for himself by wisely trying to make a buck. However, if you are the state regulators (read as the same guys as the power companies) that have created this high risk problem, then the answer is the billion dollar companies of course.

 

[GrantB]

I mean for better or worse for good or bad all utilities keeps EVERYTHING going. We didn’t get ourselves in this corner overnight and we’re not getting out overnight either. Change needs to happen slowly to make sure we don’t end up in a worse situation. Right now the train is going pretty fast down the wrong track and we need to put pressure on the companies and the regulators to do the right things and it’s not going to be easy.

 

[silentwoods]

Any thoughts on the growing murmur of transitioning the renewable subsidies into power storage technology?

Yes. Well, not actually transitioning as much as "also"
I've been waiting to see if my company starts moving that direction in a big way. Chatter, definitely, big money, not yet..

I figure if they do l, then it's going to be a big deal.

 

[silentwoods]

I mean for better or worse for good or bad all utilities keeps EVERYTHING going. We didn’t get ourselves in this corner overnight and we’re not getting out overnight either. Change needs to happen slowly to make sure we don’t end up in a worse situation. Right now the train is going pretty fast down the wrong track and we need to put pressure on the companies and the regulators to do the right things and it’s not going to be easy.

100%.

Biggest reason I even posted what I did was so someone outside of the industry would hear these things.

Like most things, nobody really knows how screwed up things are a until you are actually there on the ground.

This process hasn't even started, and it'll take decades to fix once it does start.

Clownworld musical chairs=today

 

[Mr.BR]

Unless that solar is off grid charging a storage battery, its pretty much useless as there is little to no solar electricity when you need it and for every MW of solar you add to the grid they need a MW of fossil fueled powerplant as backup to make system work , so if you have that gas turbine already, why bother with solar at all.

 

[TXAZ]

In Texas, you can (with approved provider) net meter back to grid, but you only get wholesale on excess, but pay transit fees on all consumed electricity, which is 3.5c higher/Kw. Sol-Ark just reduced their prices for Hybrid controller.. $6200 for 12KW that can run when grid is down, supports plug-and-play any LifePo4 battery bank (48v) and will also auto-turn on a generator when batteries get low. I've bought most of the equipment, but plan on controlling my usage and when crazy ass Texas raises wholesale price of energy to $9/kwh, I'm going to go full battery/generator and push all solar onto the grid while reducing consumption. I'll only need 133 hours at $9/kwh to pay for the whole damn thing.

We are net-metering with Green Mountain at retail prices, currently 14.5 cents per KWH.
That is a better deal (at least for us) than the only wholesale-priced-buyback you referenced.

 

[NoDopes]

Now that I think about it, Griddy went bankrupt and Octopus energy disabled their wholesale program.. so, high-price net-meter at retail may be the only option going forward. After the Feb exposing the failures of the "free-market" pricing.. Texas announce they may make it illegal for end-consumers to pay whole-sale price... so much for free-market... lol.

 

[RGStory]

Most of the rules from nerc for the electric industry are written by industry. Nerc says that want to regulate X and a drafting team composed of individuals from the industry draft the regs and nerc approves them. Who would you like to draft these rules , industry or a bureaucrat. I remember years ago there was a black out in the Northeast Congress passed a law to address that issue. Years later another black out happened and I remember a quote from one of the northeastern senators saying how did this happen, we passed a law to stop this. Are those the people you really want writing all the regulations not only for critical infrastructure but for automobiles lawnmowers household chemicals the list goes on and on. I see Congress and bureaucrats have done an excellent job at firearm regulations. Heck most every standard that the government refers to is produced by the industry like IEEE And many others. The real knowledge is in the private sector, government is kinda like a boss that knows nothing but must approve everything.

Yes. I agree with that. However, if you are going to let the industry write the rules, you still need to verify what was written. Trust but verify.
Perhaps include an outside consulting company in the rule drafting phase or add a counselor to the meeting to represent the public interest?

I don't know the reasoning, but looking at that particular document it is suspicious that off grid solar is harder to obtain a permit than solar without batteries hooked up to the grid. It is worth commenting on.

As to the technical requirements for hooking it up to the grid, I have no reason to doubt the design requirements.

 

[oneshot86]

When I get me a Florida property in the sticks, thats exactly what I'm gonna power with solar. Lights, fridge, water pump. I'm looking between Tampa and Gainesville, as well as the general Ocala National Forest area.

Check out Madison, cherry lake, Greenville area

 

[jmp1]

Most smart meters do not have the capability of turning the power off, that option cost money and there is no reason to have that on a residential customer. Accounts subject to frequent changes like apartments are another matter and they frequently do have that ability. Meters communicate two different ways, some use the power lines others use radio signals that communicate with other meters and to repeaters located throughout the service area, it just depends on how a company wants it. I’m in MISO and can tell you what the projected load and generation capability is for tomorrow, next week and even a month out but longer range forecast are less accurate of course. Someone in ERCOT can do the same but that is very confidential information that has to go through the power company, the state’s public service commission, in Texas that’s the railroad commission and NERC before anything is made public. There are different levels of contingency plans kind of like defcon 1-2-3 and they’re dependent on current conditions as well as forecast.

We use an remote disconnect meter. Very rural northern comifornia. Frequent non pay customers. Saves a ton of driving for repeat deadbeat customers.

 

[NoDopes]

Way back when I was doing some work for Bangor Electric, they had laws that disallowed disconnect because it got so cold. All the deadbeats had to do was call in and say they had medical needs for the power/heat... Didn't have to prove anything.

 

[jmp1]

Way back when I was doing some work for Bangor Electric, they had laws that disallowed disconnect because it got so cold. All the deadbeats had to do was call in and say they had medical needs for the power/heat... Didn't have to prove anything.

They tried that shit here....nope...lol

 

[Snuby642]

Sounds like a great job.

 

[Snuby642]

You got to check this out

Texas power grid faces summer having changed little from February freeze

Texas's grid operator frightened residents last week when it said it had very little reserves to cover demand spiking as temperatures soared. This summer could produce more scary times.

www.reuters.com

 

[427Cobra]

First post, first sentence nailed it, TEXAS is a great place to live, but this state builds everything for yesterday, the town of Frisco was the fastest growing city in the Country for more than a few years, and every road in/out of the town was a 2 lane country road with no shoulder.

 

[NoDopes]

Dallas tollway, main street, preston and eldorado all have been widened significantly. They have MLB, Dallas Cowboys practice, and minor league hockey and baseball they need to handle traffic bursts. It's a lot better than 15 years ago.