Range Report The Hornady 140 amax ammo. The OLD VS THE NEW

[kevinjs1]

I just called the general customer service number. They paid shipping and have responded quickly so far. But they have had the ammo for a few weeks now and still no response.

I did email them 10 days after they told me they received my ammo and they said they will contact me as soon as they complete their testing. (the customer service email address that I used to ask about the testing responded to my inquiry in less than 10 min.)

Those are the same marks I am getting on my case faces and same extraction issues.

I even had a case lip get torn trying to extract a spent case.


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[azbiker]

I'm new to the 6.5 Creedmoor round. Every box of Hornady 140gr Amax I own are 313 lots. So far I've shot lot #3132922 and 3132438 with no apparent signs of pressure. I must also say I do not reload so I am lacking the knowledge that many of you have in this regard. I've just compared my fired 140 amax rounds with my Hornady 308 168gr Amax brass fired from an identical gun except for caliber. Both are McMillan built G30 Tac rifles.

I'm only posting to add to the information here as I've been watching this thread with interest since receiving my new rifle.

First pic below are 5 shot groups showing rounds 11-15, 16-20, 21-25, and 26-30 left to right and then down to lower left. The targets are 3 inch circles with 1/2 inch center.



I went out again yesterday and my first few groups looked like those above but I finished with this 5 shot group. I now have 80 rounds through this rifle. These are all from a bipod and a Triad large wedge rear bag.

 

[verdugo60]

This was my first experience with the caliber and hornady match ammo. This is also my first group from my Long Rifles build in KRG W 3. Both awesome companies, and obviously this combo is working. This is 120 gr amax. Hoping my reloads and 140s shoot close to this good. Calipers set at .264 it's hard to measure but around .1 moa. 5 shots @ 100 yards

 

[kevinjs1]

Hornady called me and said they tested my boxes from lot 313xxx and all is within spec.

I'm not quite sure what to think now.

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[Toast]

New Hornady ammo: 1/8 primers blown out. All primers, not blown out, flattened. Gasser rifle though.

 

[verdugo60]

New Hornady ammo: 1/8 primers blown out. All primers, not blown out, flattened. Gasser rifle though.

Gasser rifle that was headspaced wrong from what you said in the other thread.

 

[cecchino76]

Humm... Almost looks like Reloader powder... ??
I haven't pulled any yet but I can get on QL and look at 43.8 with various powders and also look at their pictures of the granules of powder...
I don't know WTF that is in all honesty

Man IDK ;
from the pics it looks like the left scale base has two different powders mixed together

 

[PowerstrokeOBX]

The Hornady 140 amax ammo. The OLD VS THE NEW

Shot some '14 boxes of 140s and they shot fine. Slight cratering but not bad. Didn't measure the web and don't know how well it cleans.

 

[SoCal326]

Out of the 50 rounds I shot I had 3 blown primers and many had ejector marks.

This thread is getting a bit long so I have quoted myself so you can linked back to my first set of pictures in this thread if you are curious.

My take home point here is that I am no longer blaming the Factory ammo for my pressure signs. When it comes to pressure I trust the ammo in my rifle.

My initial complaint was about excessive pressure. I never commented on group size because it was my first range trip with the rifle. I found the break in procedure laborious and wasn’t focusing on group size. The barrel never gets properly fouled so talking about group size isn’t fair. They were all about an inch though.

The break in protocol listed on the Savage website recommends using two drops of oil after each cleaning. When I called Savage they said that I should not use the protocol on their website and that they are only there because customers demand it. The person I spoke to said their barrels do not need to be broken in--They are good to go out of the box. He also warned that the oil could have caused these issues.

I took the rifle out again today to finish off the last 10 Rounds of Hornady 140 Grain A-Max that I had. Everything was fine. I am blaming the oil here for my issues. If I had another box of the same lot left I wouldn’t hesitate to take it out and shoot for groups—But I don’t.

On a side note I was pretty happy with the reloads that I tested. I ran both Hornady 140 gr A-Max and Hornady 140 gr MATCH bullets in front of some IMR4350 . I was shooting 3 shot groups and found a node that seems to produce about 0.3 MOA groups at 100 Yards. Hopefully I get the same results when I head out to fire some 5 shot groups.

Here is a pic of the primers of those last 10 Factory rounds.

 

[Aimsmall55]

This thread is getting a bit long so I have quoted myself so you can linked back to my first set if pictures in this thread if you are curious.

My take home point here is that I am no longer blaming the Factory ammo for my pressure signs. When it comes to pressure I trust the ammo in my rifle.

My initial complaint was about excessive pressure. I never commented on group size because it was my first range trip with the rifle. I found the break in procedure laborious and wasn’t focusing on group size. The barrel never gets properly fouled so talking about group size isn’t fair. They were all about an inch though.

The break in protocol listed on the Savage website recommends using two drops of oil after each cleaning. When I called Savage they said that I should not the protocol on their website and that they are only there because customers demand it. The person I spoke to said their barrels do not need to be broken in--They are good to go out of the box. He also warned that the oil could have caused these issues.

I took the rifle out again today to finish off the last 10 Rounds of Hornady 140 Grain A-Max that I had. Everything was fine. I am blaming the oil here for my issues. If I had another box of the same lot left I wouldn’t hesitate to take it out and shoot for groups—But I don’t.

On a side note I was pretty happy with the reloads that I tested. I ran both Hornady 140 gr A-Max and Hornady 140 gr MATCH bullets in front of some IMR4350 . I was shooting 3 shot groups and found a node that seems to produce about 0.3 MOA groups at 100 Yards. Hopefully I get the same results when I head out to fire some 5 shot groups.

Here is a pic of the primers of those last 10 Factory rounds.

So you wouldn't hesitate to shoot that lot .... But you won't.

That doesn't make sense. I know what your saying about the oil. That is very plausible.

 

[Rob01]

If I had another box of the same lot left I wouldn’t hesitate to take it out and shoot for groups—But I don’t.

Reads to me that he doesn't have anymore of that lot but if he did he wouldn't worry about shooting it.

 

[cecchino76]

I'm tagging this too

 

[Aimsmall55]

Reads to me that he doesn't have anymore of that lot but if he did he wouldn't worry about shooting it.

Got ya. Must have misread. My bad SoCal

 

[SoCal326]

_

 

[RRW]

I went out yesterday and shot some 140 AMAX "MATCH" and I use that term loosely. My rifle was a AI/AE MK II with an AINA 26" Bartlein. The lot # was 3133063. No blown primers but several were flattened. Accuracy was averaging between 1.5 to 2 moa at 100 yds. I had 120 rds of the same lot. I only shot 20 before I shut it down as I was wasting my time. When I got home I pulled some bullets and it was like the previous photo where H4350 was compared with the darker mystery powder. I have no idea what it is but compared it to H4350 and it is obviously different powder. Checked some weights and they went from 43.1 to 43.6 (powder unknown) gr and everywhere in between. That is not match grade in my opinion. I do reload but went with the CM over the 260 because there was quality factory ammo available. If I had to know this I would have went with the 260. It's pretty frustrating and it really pisses me off. I don't know about other people but I don't have a lot of time to waste and pissing around with junk is not one of them. I have a friend who is a Hornady rep and spoke to him and he is going to submit something on paper. I also advised him of the issues several others have had. Hornady obviously recognizes there is an issue if they are saying 2014 will be a better year. I will believe it when I see it. Word of mouth goes along way.

 

[Aimsmall55]

I went out yesterday and shot some 140 AMAX "MATCH" and I use that term loosely. My rifle was a AI/AE MK II with an AINA 26" Bartlein. The lot # was 3133063. No blown primers but several were flattened. Accuracy was averaging between 1.5 to 2 moa at 100 yds. I had 120 rds of the same lot. I only shot 20 before I shut it down as I was wasting my time. When I got home I pulled some bullets and it was like the previous photo where H4350 was compared with the darker mystery powder. I have no idea what it is but compared it to H4350 and it is obviously different powder. Checked some weights and they went from 43.1 to 43.6 (powder unknown) gr and everywhere in between. That is not match grade in my opinion. I do reload but went with the CM over the 260 because there was quality factory ammo available. If I had to know this I would have went with the 260. It's pretty frustrating and it really pisses me off. I don't know about other people but I don't have a lot of time to waste and pissing around with junk is not one of them. I have a friend who is a Hornady rep and spoke to him and he is going to submit something on paper. I also advised him of the issues several others have had. Hornady obviously recognizes there is an issue if they are saying 2014 will be a better year. I will believe it when I see it. Word of mouth goes along way.

43.1 to 43.6..... A .5 grain spread! And I think the powder you pulled is reloader 19. Tell your buddy that's great that he's getting on top of this. About damn time ... Thanks for the info

 

[kevinjs1]

43.1 to 43.6..... A .5 grain spread! And I think the powder you pulled is reloader 19. Tell your buddy that's great that he's getting on top of this. About damn time ... Thanks for the info

+1

 

[RRW]

So I pulled the remainder of the 20 rds for the brass. The charge wts were even worse. On 4 consecutive rds, the charge wts were 43.3, 43.8,43.7,and 43.5. So out of one 20 rd box, the charge wts of powder "x", whatever it is varied from 43.1-43.8 grs. Not to mention the flattened prmers, no wonder it was grouping like shit. Thats unacceptable imho for "match" ammunition. I hope Hornady gets their shit sorted out, that's ridiculous. Like I said I went to the CM because the availability of quality match ammunition. Now I am kicking myself in the nuts for not going with the .260. Oh well. My next barrel will be a .260.

 

[Aimsmall55]

So I pulled the remainder of the 20 rds for the brass. The charge wts were even worse. On 4 consecutive rds, the charge wts were 43.3, 43.8,43.7,and 43.5. So out of one 20 rd box, the charge wts of powder "x", whatever it is varied from 43.1-43.8 grs. Not to mention the flattened prmers, no wonder it was grouping like shit. Thats unacceptable imho for "match" ammunition. I hope Hornady gets their shit sorted out, that's ridiculous. Like I said I went to the CM because the availability of quality match ammunition. Now I am kicking myself in the nuts for not going with the .260. Oh well. My next barrel will be a .260.

Do you hand load at all???

Never mind. I saw in your earlier post.

 

[Aimsmall55]

This is how I remember the "good stuff". My shooting partner bought like 2,000 rounds of the 312 lot 140 amaxs. This group was shot Sunday at 816 yards using a damn tee shirt as a rear bag LOL. He said it was going to be a group you could cover with a quarter but the " damned tee shirt buckled on the 5th shot". He was shooting a GAP

 

[thetic]

There is a problem!


I just opened 40 rounds of the Hornady 140g A max Match ammo:

20 form lot #3133078 they had between 43.8 and 44.8g of a powder other than 4350 in them.
20 from lot #3133063 they had between 43.7 and 44.4g of the same mystery powder.
Verified on two different scales and made sure they were both in spec/calibration.

I called hornady and they are not at all any help. They said and I quote "we don't always use H4350 and the recommendation on the box is just a recommendation". They admitted that they substitute powders when they need to.

There is no good reason the a 6.5 CM load would have 44.8g of powder. Maybe only if it were H1000 which it is not. I don't know the exact powder but it not in the H4350 IMR4350 or AA4350. My guess is after measuring it and checking with the NCFS Smokeless Powders Database I would conclude it to be reloader 17. I cannot be sure of it but that would be the reason people are getting over pressure on every brand of rifle.

The 6.5CM should not ever achieve a 2950fps velocity with a 140g projectile. THIS IS NOT YOUR RIFLE!!! IT IS THE AMMO. It is the only component that is the same with all the situations we have heard of. The thought that every other rifle in 6.5CM from various manufacturers would have an issue is assured. A bullet consist of only a few components (projectile, primer, case and powder) we all know it is the powder that is giving people the classic over pressure problems.

WHAT SHOULD YOU DO--- Call and complain to Hornady, report them to every agency you can contact. To my knowledge no one has been injured yet, but I would speculate that this might change if nothing is done.

My advice is don't shoot them with that much powder in them. I am pulling all that I have and am reloading them with a powder that I am familiar with.

Please be safe.

 

[Aimsmall55]

View attachment 35679
I just opened 40 rounds of the Hornady 140g A max Match ammo:

20 form lot #3133078 they had between 43.8 and 44.8g of a powder other than 4350 in them.
20 from lot #3133063 they had between 43.7 and 44.4g of the same mystery powder.
Verified on two different scales and made sure they were both in spec/calibration.

I called hornady and they are not at all any help. They said and I quote "we don't always use H4350 and the recommendation on the box is just a recommendation". They admitted that they substitute powders when they need to.

There is no good reason the a 6.5 CM load would have 44.8g of powder. Maybe only if it were H1000 which it is not. I don't know the exact powder but it not in the H4350 IMR4350 or AA4350. My guess is after measuring it and checking with the NCFS Smokeless Powders Database I would conclude it to be reloader 17. I cannot be sure of it but that would be the reason people are getting over pressure on every brand of rifle.

The 6.5CM should not ever achieve a 2950fps velocity with a 140g projectile. THIS IS NOT YOUR RIFLE!!! IT IS THE AMMO. It is the only component that is the same with all the situations we have heard of. The thought that every other rifle in 6.5CM from various manufacturers would have an issue is assured. A bullet consist of only a few components (projectile, primer, case and powder) we all know it is the powder that is giving people the classic over pressure problems.

WHAT SHOULD YOU DO--- Call and complain to Hornady, report them to every agency you can contact. To my knowledge no one has been injured yet, but I would speculate that this might change if nothing is done.

My advice is don't shoot them with that much powder in them. I am pulling all that I have and am reloading them with a powder that I am familiar with.

Please be safe.

What agencies would you suggest us calling?? And btw, you just summarized the COMPLETE THREAD in a few paragraphs.

 

[thetic]

Thanks, I just wanted to share the results about the two lots that I personally measured first hand.

 

[silver-duck]

I have been reading this thread with interest.
This weekend I shot a 300/600--800/900/1000--1000 yard F-class match with my 6.5[first time with this rifle, except I won a 300/600 match 3 weeks ago with it{first time in a match with it}. A savage LRP with a Shilen 1/8 ultra match, 4 grove ratchet rifled, 28" barrel.
On Sunday we shot 2 20round+ unlimited sighters @ 1000. I shoot Fri./ Sat with Cooper Creek 139 LP.The wind was so bad on Sat.that I did not shoot well.[still learning to read wind] 10 to 18 mph changing all day at Rattlesnake[ about the most difficult range there is]
Sunday I thought I would try some H 140 Match 81494/lot#3132855, that I got from Mile High.I shot about 50 rounds at 1000Y
and it was GOOD! Elevation was consistent and windage was predicable.This ammo is good as far as I can tell.
300/600=197/10x---190/5x
8,9 1000= 161/0---167/2---144/1
1000= 182/4x---172/2x.
From my limited experience this ammo is fine! I will shoot it at 1000Y match again. There is better ammo around but this is OK>

 

[kevinjs1]

Lot 3132922 shoots like shit for me. Blown primers. Over expanded cases, difficulty to extract in my Surgeon.

Took my rifle to Surgeon they confirmed it.

They shot lot 3132438 and said it shoots well without issues.



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[Aimsmall55]

I have been reading this thread with interest.
This weekend I shot a 300/600--800/900/1000--1000 yard F-class match with my 6.5[first time with this rifle, except I won a 300/600 match 3 weeks ago with it{first time in a match with it}. A savage LRP with a Shilen 1/8 ultra match, 4 grove ratchet rifled, 28" barrel.
On Sunday we shot 2 20round+ unlimited sighters @ 1000. I shoot Fri./ Sat with Cooper Creek 139 LP.The wind was so bad on Sat.that I did not shoot well.[still learning to read wind] 10 to 18 mph changing all day at Rattlesnake[ about the most difficult range there is]
Sunday I thought I would try some H 140 Match 81494/lot#3132855, that I got from Mile High.I shot about 50 rounds at 1000Y
and it was GOOD! Elevation was consistent and windage was predicable.This ammo is good as far as I can tell.
300/600=197/10x---190/5x
8,9 1000= 161/0---167/2---144/1
1000= 182/4x---172/2x.
From my limited experience this ammo is fine! I will shoot it at 1000Y match again. There is better ammo around but this is OK>

From your limited experience, consider your self lucky ! Hope you got a bunch of that in the same lot#. This ammo is not fine and it really irks me (not bashing, just using you as an example ) when guys get on here and say that it's shooting great for them and don't really see it as an issue. Well, when they run out, and have to buy more, they'll be a little pissed off based on groups shooting 1/4 moa to 1.5 moa at 100.
Several things have been established in this thread
1) THESE ARE NOT LOADED WITH H4350
2)THEY ARE USING A POWDER THAT LOOKS VERY SIMILAR TO R17 AND ALSO SOME LOOK LIKE h100V
3) THEY ARE LOADED WAY TO HOT
4)THERE'S UP TO.7 GRAINS SPREADS ON SOME AMMO
5) THEY ARE GIVING PEOPLE EJECTOR MARKS, STICKY BOLT, AND PRIMERS ARE BEING DESTROYED ON SOME ROUNDS
6) FOR THE MAJORITY, I'LL SPEAK... WE ARE PISSED

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

It doesn't matter one damned little bit what the powder Hornady is charging these cartridges with looks like. Not one damned little bit.

You've zero idea whatsoever what it is.

Any guess is nothing more than WILD speculation.

Don't forget that big name factory ammo producers (like Hornady) very often have custom powders blended for them.

 

[RRW]

It doesn't matter one damned little bit what the powder Hornady is charging these cartridges with looks like. Not one damned little bit.

You've zero idea whatsoever what it is.

Any guess is nothing more than WILD speculation.

Don't forget that big name factory ammo producers (like Hornady) very often have custom powders blended for them.

I really couldn't care less what powder it is. The problem I have and its obvious from all the reports here and what I have seen personally is my rifle with a specific lot is that its loaded way too hot and consistency all over the board. Going from 43.1-43.8 grs in one 20 rd box is not match ammo and is going to shoot like shit, as well as being way too hot has nothing to do with changing powder, its quality control. They are admitting it now but when this first all start happening Hornady was outright claiming that this powder was H4350 when it obviously was not. People are not stupid and in my mind Hornady has lost a lot of credibility. If I didn't already have a CM barrel, I would have gotten a 260 and will the next time around. The shooting world is a relatively small community, especially in some circles and word of mouth goes along way, believe me, you read between the lines on that one. The fact that they are claiming 2014 will be a better pretty much sums it up.

 

[Aimsmall55]

It doesn't matter one damned little bit what the powder Hornady is charging these cartridges with looks like. Not one damned little bit.

You've zero idea whatsoever what it is.

Any guess is nothing more than WILD speculation.

Don't forget that big name factory ammo producers (like Hornady) very often have custom powders blended for them.

Actually I do have an idea. It's kind of what I do for a living....

 

[Rob01]

2)THEY ARE USING A POWDER THAT LOOKS VERY SIMILAR TO R17 AND ALSO SOME LOOK LIKE h100V

Might look that way but it's neither.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

Actually I do have an idea. It's kind of what I do for a living....

Sorry, my mistake.

I didn't realize you worked for Hornady or the powder supplier for the 140gr loading of 6.5CM.

Being that you KNOW what powder it is, why don't you enlighten us?

 

[Aimsmall55]

Sorry, my mistake.

I didn't realize you worked for Hornady or the powder supplier for the 140gr loading of 6.5CM.

Being that you KNOW what powder it is, why don't you enlighten us?

Ok I'll enlighten you. Go FUCK YOURSELF. I hope you enjoyed your time in MY thread.

 

[silver-duck]

I think a few people on here are a little naive.I do not reload or have much interest in doing it [I like to shoot].
Example: Black Hills has access to "powder" that no one on this sight has.[Hornady may also].
I know this because I acquired some of the rounds that BH made for the AM Team. Then I hired 2 high level reloaders to duplicate these rounds.They came very close but the power BH used is top secret.Several people tried to ID the power but it is proprietary.
This powder makes rounds that are .25/.33 MOA. You guy's can call "bullshit" but I do not care.
Lets just have fun shooting.

 

[tmcelrath]

I have noticed that my CM shoots awesome at 100 and great at 300+, but at the 200yd line it opens way the hell up to like 1.5 MOA. I have taken it to 1k and shot a 6"/ 5 shot spread off a bench with the 140s. The rifle is accurate, I just cant figure out why it opens up so bad at 200. Any ideas, suggestions, comments?? Thanks.

 

[Aimsmall55]

I have noticed that my CM shoots awesome at 100 and great at 300+, but at the 200yd line it opens way the hell up to like 1.5 MOA. I have taken it to 1k and shot a 6"/ 5 shot spread off a bench with the 140s. The rifle is accurate, I just cant figure out why it opens up so bad at 200. Any ideas, suggestions, comments?? Thanks.

So your shooting 2 1/2" groups at 200 and 6" at 1,000?
What are your your actual group sizes at 100 and 300? You never said

 

[tmcelrath]

At 100 the groups are 1/2" then at 200 they open up to 2.5-3" groups, at 300 close back down to 1.5-1.75". I had a picture of the 3 targets side by side after I left the range that day. Trying to find it now, If I can, Ill post it. The measurements on this reply are all inches NOT MOA as I lested in my initial post above.

 

[tmcelrath]

I cant blame it on a gust of wind during that string of fire either because the 1, 2, and 300 yd lines are one shooter apart essentially. C2 Shooting Center look on the homepage and it has an ariel view of the range I shoot at. 100, 200 and 300 are on the left and I set all 3 targets up before I started firing. I fired my 100 rd group then moved to 200 to fine tune come-up, then moved to 300 to fine tune come-up. I didnt rush or or take my time. I fired slowly and took my time to get a nice group so I can start building my dope book. All 3 firing positions were off a bipod, with rear bag and off a bench not prone. It was drizzling and like 52 degrees but it shouldnt have effected the round at these short ranges.

 

[Aimsmall55]

I cant blame it on a gust of wind during that string of fire either because the 1, 2, and 300 yd lines are one shooter apart essentially. C2 Shooting Center look on the homepage and it has an ariel view of the range I shoot at. 100, 200 and 300 are on the left and I set all 3 targets up before I started firing. I fired my 100 rd group then moved to 200 to fine tune come-up, then moved to 300 to fine tune come-up. I didnt rush or or take my time. I fired slowly and took my time to get a nice group so I can start building my dope book. All 3 firing positions were off a bipod, with rear bag and off a bench not prone. It was drizzling and like 52 degrees but it shouldnt have effected the round at these short ranges.

I will say this, at least for me, firing off a bench isn't nearly as comfortable as prone. Alot of movement on my part when shooting from a bench. How many times did you try grouping at 200? Only reason I ask is human error. Because there is no way a bullet can go from 3" to 1.75" in only 100 yards. My opinion, human error. Go back and try again and don't worry about getting drop info. Just pick a point on a target and keep shooting at it 5 times. Don't move your turrets. I can almost promise it'll be Better

 

[tmcelrath]

Here are my groups 100, 200, 200 left to right. Also since youre looking, do you think high right and low left could indicate a canted reticle?

 

[Aimsmall55]

Here are my groups 100, 200, 200 left to right. Also since youre looking, do you think high right and low left could indicate a canted reticle?

I tried looking and I just can't make our the target. Could you maybe hi light the holes and label the targets. Some are upside down

 

[milo 2.0]

Sorry to interrupt here, having a 6.5 Creed built tomorrow, what the fuck is up with this new brass, feels work hardened? Didn't chamfer for shit, bullets have ring on them from seating, tried my 6.5 x47 die, still a ring. Neither die has vld seater, but the 47 never has left a ring.
Case mouth measures fine, not too much tension.

 

[tmcelrath]

Here I hilighted best I could. 3 Shots on each.

 

[Aimsmall55]

Here I hilighted best I could. 3 Shots on each.

Unless its doing it repeatedly, I'd say shooter error would be most likely.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Sorry to interrupt here, having a 6.5 Creed built tomorrow, what the fuck is up with this new brass, feels work hardened? Didn't chamfer for shit, bullets have ring on them from seating, tried my 6.5 x47 die, still a ring. Neither die has vld seater, but the 47 never has left a ring.
Case mouth measures fine, not too much tension.

What lot? Mine is 4130262 and 4130211. They were consistent so I chucked them together. It has all chamfered fine but the primer pockets are stupid tight. I can't seat WLR's or WLRM's with my hand priming tools, I have to use my dillon to seat primers.

 

[milo 2.0]

RNB, lot # 4130899, like I said, the necks are measuring .002 under loaded, just tough seating. A friend who has a creed says brass annealing job looks funky compared to his. To me. it seems work hardened. I can run them through an expander mandrel and eliminate my ring, maybe after 1 firing they'll come around?

 

[tmcelrath]

Consistently less accurate at 200. Several different shooters, different lots of 140's, different days, and clean/dirty doesn't matter either. There was an article I read about gladius rifles owner building a creedmoor and the way the article was written it seemed like his did the same. Opens up early and really tightens back down. It's a very strange idea for me to comprehend ballistically.

 

[wrhunter]

RNB, lot # 4130899, like I said, the necks are measuring .002 under loaded, just tough seating. A friend who has a creed says brass annealing job looks funky compared to his. To me. it seems work hardened. I can run them through an expander mandrel and eliminate my ring, maybe after 1 firing they'll come around?

Out of the box they are very tight. Run them passed the ball expander in your full length die and they will be much softer seating.

 

[swhiteh3]

I've read through this thread with great interest up until now, but some recent testing I've done finally means I have something to add. I built a new Stiller/Brux 6.5CM gun through a very reputable builder, and started with factory Hornady 140gr A-Max ammo....

My first batch (#3131672 x 200rds) of 140 AMax could not shoot a 100yd group in the beginning to save it's life. I never suspected the ammo, I thought something might be wrong with me or the rifle. I had at least one blown out primer with a jammed bolt on one of the very first shots from this lot as well. (I returned this piece of brass, along with several other live rounds to Hornady and they said it was "within spec".) This batch chrono'd at 2844 with three shots - but I had no experience with this chrono previously, so I was suspect of this number.

I started letting other shooters shoot it with similar results. Then I took it to a very experience F-Class / PALMA shooter with national championships under his belt. After a warm-up, it started shooting well, for me and for him. WTF!?! He said to me "Nothing is wrong with this gun, it's a hammer and you're shooting it well!". But... BUT! Looking back on my notes, that was the day I switched from my initial batch (#3131672) to my next batch of ammo (#3132438).

Recently I took 5 rounds of two batches across the chrono. Same chrono, same day, same weather, etc.

Lot# 3132438 Avg 2704 Std Dev 7.78
Lot# 3121325 Avg 2754 Std Dev 15.61 (Older batch, old-style font on box)

I wish I had even a few shots of the original batch to shoot through the chrono, for a good comparison...

Scott Whitehead

 

[wrhunter]

Scott,

Just curious what was your chamber spec'd for? IE was it set up for the 140 Amax at 2.81" or something different.

Are any of the other shooters experiencing pressure issues running Factory based chambers?

 

[kevinjs1]

I had my throat extended by Surgeon after I started experiencing pressure problems and I still have issues with lot 3132922.

But I always shot the factory 140's before that anyway.

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