Range Report The Hornady 140 amax ammo. The OLD VS THE NEW

[swhiteh3]

Scott,

Just curious what was your chamber spec'd for? IE was it set up for the 140 Amax at 2.81" or something different.

Are any of the other shooters experiencing pressure issues running Factory based chambers?

My chamber was cut with a standard SAAMI 6.5 Creedmoor chamber cutter. Is that what you're wondering about?

 

[wrhunter]

Exactly. Just wondering if the pressure was due to a chamber set up for vld's and short coal. Doesn't sound like that is the cause.

 

[Wjfinley]

Has anybody heard anything else from Hornady? I've got lot# 3133063 that shoots about 2" at 100 in my savage model 12 LRP.

 

[RRW]

Has anybody heard anything else from Hornady? I've got lot# 3133063 that shoots about 2" at 100 in my savage model 12 LRP.[/QUO

Good luck hearing anything. I don't think they have said anything publically but apparently 2014 is going to be a better. I had the same lot. Don't waste your time with it. I was getting flattened primers and the mystery powder in one 20 rd box ranged from 43.1gr to 43.8 gr. You can guess how that was shooting. I ended up pulling the remainding 80 I had.

 

[Wjfinley]

I'm also getting flattened primers. And when I went to reload the brass, the primers were scary easy to seat. Almost loose enough that I swear I could have pushed them in with my thumb.

 

[PowerstrokeOBX]

The Hornady 140 amax ammo. The OLD VS THE NEW

Got 160 rds of 31492 120 AMAX. My last lot made in '12 was shooting 2870 from a 22" JP upper with good accuracy. New lot has decent accuracy but is going 3050 out of the same 22" barrel. Flattened and cratered primers. Gun jams up constantly. Spent case keeps jamming into the side of the ejection port crushing the neck immediately. Case sometimes sticks in the chamber.

I did turn the gas all the way down to where the bolt just barely locks open on empty mag. Still having the same issues.

Can dump 10rds of the old stuff as fast as possible with no issues.

 

[Wjfinley]

It was bad enough I tried 3 boxes which were all the same lot. I couldn't find any others close. It was a new gun so I called savage and sent the gun back. 5 weeks later they sent it back saying nothing was wrong and it met their 1" or better requirement. They also used the same ammo for testing. But when I got it back, same thing. And it pisses me off because they say it's good and shoots fine for them. But it's the worst gun I've ever had right out of the box.

 

[SoCal326]

... But it's the worst gun I've ever had right out of the box

How did the reloads do? Have u had a chance to shoot them?

 

[Wjfinley]

The reloads done surprisingly well for it being the first load I've tried, and considering the results I got with the factory ammo.

 

[Wjfinley]

Between 1/2-3/4" at 100

 

[Wjfinley]

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[Aimsmall55]

It was bad enough I tried 3 boxes which were all the same lot. I couldn't find any others close. It was a new gun so I called savage and sent the gun back. 5 weeks later they sent it back saying nothing was wrong and it met their 1" or better requirement. They also used the same ammo for testing. But when I got it back, same thing. And it pisses me off because they say it's good and shoots fine for them. But it's the worst gun I've ever had right out of the box.

It's not your gun. Rest assured its the ammo. Your just experiencing what most of us in this thread are experiencing. Pissed off that our rifles used to shoot in the .2's with this stuff. Now it looks buckshot with an improved cylinder. As I saw above, your reloads shot a good bit better.

 

[usmc02xx]

^^^^ reloads saved the day for me. i bought 100 just to get my brass going. was shooting out of a brand new custom and was like WTF is this!?!?! Then i found all the peeps online, same problem. calmed down, built reloads and back into sub .5's. It was in the 1.5 to 2 inch range for me.

 

[SScott]

Has anybody heard anything else from Hornady? I've got lot# 3133063 that shoots about 2" at 100 in my savage model 12 LRP.

A shitty day at the range brought me to this thread.
I picked up an AIAE MK3 with a 26" barrel and was all stoked about getting it sighted in, until I shot it with Hornady "MATCH" ammo and it printed a group like a shot gun
My lot number is 3133063, and I had similar results as the person I quoted, a 2" group.
Just for reference, I also had my TRG 260 that I was sighting in as well, its group is on the left of the paper, that is my "Match" ammo, and that is the results I was expecting from Hornady.
From my Crono data you can see that I had one spike at 2974, I didn't pull that piece of brass to the side because at that point I didn't realize that I was going to spend my day trouble shooting my system.
I did pull some bullets and the powder charge was right around 43.5, the biggest thing that came to my attention was the scrapes that were present on the pulled bullets, In my picture I compared it to a 7mm bullet that I pulled from some (prepped) Winchester brass, there were almost no visible scrapes on the bullet.
Maybe there is a Bullet/brass issue??
I shared my range notes, try to read through my chicken scratch, I didn't go into my day thinking I was going to spend so much time fiddle f**king around with this. I'm glad I found this thread, now I have to decide what my next move is, since I purchased a 6.5 Creedmoor for the lure of affordable Match ammo, I'm just glad my 260 barrel has lots of life left.
Scott
LOT # 3133063





I read through this Thread again and here is the good and bad lot numbers as posted by others.

Bad lot numbers
3132829
3133063
3133158


Good lot numbers, consider yourself lucky
3121293
3131672
3132325
3132438
3132922
4130211, I think this lot should be 3140211, I just wrote what the post had.
4130262 3140262

If you feel I made a mistake, just let me know and I'll edit my post.

Edit to add.
I called Hornady and got a call label to send ammo in for "testing".

 

[kevinjs1]

I gathered a bunch of lots of factory 140's on Friday and took them out. 3140663 and 3140515 did great.


Group sizes at 100 yards

3090292 .611"
3130633 .75"
3134384 .875
3132922 .698"
3140633 .733"
3140415 .296"

All were 5 shot group at about 95 degrees with about 7 mph wind.

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[Aimsmall55]

I gathered a bunch of lots of factory 140's on Friday and took them out. 3140663 and 3140515 did great.


Group sizes at 100 yards

3090292 .611"
3130633 .75"
3134384 .875
3132922 .698"
3140633 .733"
3140415 .296"

All were 5 shot group at about 95 degrees with about 7 mph wind.

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Yeah I'd probably be hanging on to the 3140415 lot. Excellent shooting. Maybe it's coming back. All those groups are smaller than what alot of guys are getting. Got to ask... Any over pressure???

 

[kevinjs1]

3132922 seemed a bit hot like the last time is shot it but the other lots shot just fine for me. I'm looking forward to the 314 lots for sure.

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[Rob01]

Now where did I hear that 2014 lots would be better but the poster was scoffed at? Hmm.

 

[kevinjs1]

Now where did I hear that 2014 lots would be better but the poster was scoffed at? Hmm.

Who ever mentioned that sure knows what they are talking about.

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[arnie19]

I suppose all these bad bullets will wind up at one of the big retailers as unknown blems .

 

[verdugo60]

Unless it had nothing to do with the projectiles and it was the switch from H4350 to whatever they used in 2013, which also caused the high pressure issues people were seeing.

I suppose all these bad bullets will wind up at one of the big retailers as unknown blems .

 

[Jmilera]

Can anyone shed any further light on lot # 3133068? I shot this ammo last week and it shoots 1-1.5 moa out of an AIAX that shoots 1/4 with my old lot.
Thanks
Joe

 

[Aimsmall55]

Has anybody been shooting and documenting 140 amax lot to lot performance lately? Curious to see how the stuff they are making NOW is shooting.

 

[omgtkk]

I have 400 rounds of 314xxx that I need to work through. I'm having trouble with the chamber in my rifle and just got it back from Savage on Friday. I'll be at the range this Th and will post up what I find then, assuming Savage fixed the problems with the gun.

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[jongekj1]

I have 400 rounds of 314xxx that I need to work through. I'm having trouble with the chamber in my rifle and just got it back from Savage on Friday. I'll be at the range this Th and will post up what I find then, assuming Savage fixed the problems with the gun.

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I'm interested to see your results....I just joined the hide today but have have been following this thread for a while now. I have recently bought a savage 12 LRP and believe I have an issue with the rifle chambering. I just tried shooting an old lot number last weekend (310xxxx) and still have cratered primers. What did savage say was wrong with your gun??

 

[omgtkk]

Savage didn't indicate what the problem was. The returned work order just said they polished the chamber and test fired successfully. I don't have high hopes that it's going to be fixed. I'm normally a Savage fan boy as my model 10's in .223 and .308 are excellent shooters. But this 12lrp has been a major disappointment. With quite a few other people complaining about how their chambers were cut or how the scope rail holes were drilled, I think they have a QC problem with this particular run of rifles.

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[jongekj1]

I have 400 rounds of 314xxx that I need to work through. I'm having trouble with the chamber in my rifle and just got it back from Savage on Friday. I'll be at the range this Th and will post up what I find then, assuming Savage fixed the problems with the gun.

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Savage didn't indicate what the problem was. The returned work order just said they polished the chamber and test fired successfully. I don't have high hopes that it's going to be fixed. I'm normally a Savage fan boy as my model 10's in .223 and .308 are excellent shooters. But this 12lrp has been a major disappointment. With quite a few other people complaining about how their chambers were cut or how the scope rail holes were drilled, I think they have a QC problem with this particular run of rifles.

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I agree with you on the quality control issues. This is my first savage rifle and I had high expectations based on the reviews written about how well the 12 lrp shoots. Yes, also noticed the base mount holes were not threaded well or cleaned up. I initially bought some hornady 120 grain a- max and noticed after firing 3 rounds (I think lot# 3132922) the primers didn't look good and based on the forum decided to stop shooting. Sent that box plus 3 more back to hornady for inspection. Found some older stuff (lot# 3100xxx) snatched it up and went back out last weekend with same results. Now I'm wondering if I have a chamber cut out of spec. According to my research I'm wondering if my chamber might be cut to long. But that's just a shot in the dark without having any measuring tools. I'll see if I can post a pic of the primers....

 

[kevinjs1]

I sent my 3132922 back to Hornady and even though it may have shot on the top end of spec it was all within spec.

I am surprised to hear your had similar problems with the 310xxxx lot. From what I have heard and my own experience with lots from that time period, it should shoot excellently.

Good luck.

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[BoilerUP]

I agree with you on the quality control issues. This is my first savage rifle and I had high expectations based on the reviews written about how well the 12 lrp shoots. Yes, also noticed the base mount holes were not threaded well or cleaned up. I initially bought some hornady 120 grain a- max and noticed after firing 3 rounds (I think lot# 3132922) the primers didn't look good and based on the forum decided to stop shooting. Sent that box plus 3 more back to hornady for inspection. Found some older stuff (lot# 3100xxx) snatched it up and went back out last weekend with same results. Now I'm wondering if I have a chamber cut out of spec. According to my research I'm wondering if my
chamber might be cut to long. But that's just a shot in the dark without having any measuring tools. I'll see if I can post a pic of the primers....

I don't think a long chamber would cause pressure issues...?

 

[Rob01]

I sent my 3132922 back to Hornady and even though it may have shot on the top end of spec it was all within spec.

I am surprised to hear your had similar problems with the 310xxxx lot. From what I have heard and my own experience with lots from that time period, it should shoot excellently.

Good luck.

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There were no issues with 310 lots of Creedmoor. I have shot many 310 lots. Lets not jump to the conclusion from now on that every issue with a Creedmoor rifle is ammo related due to a problem lot in 313 lots.

If there is cratered primers with those 310 lots then I would put my money on it being a rifle issue. That said a "crater" in the primer is not always a major issue or issue at all. Some bolt faces have larger firing pin holes and softer cupped primers, like the Federals used, can show some small flow even at standard pressures. My 700 .308 does it with everything I have ever put in it since I got it in 1993. It's on it's 5th barrel now and no issues. So a small amount of cratering isn't always an issue with either ammo or rifle but might just be the way the rifle is made.

 

[jongekj1]

I see. Thanks for the input! Yes I may have gotten ahead of myself by sending ammo back to hornady. Once I found/shot the lot# 3100xxx I realized it most likely not a problem with the ammo. Since my primers all look the same no matter what lot I shoot.

Can someone explain how to post pics on here... Thanks

 

[Rob01]

Can someone explain how to post pics on here... Thanks

You can either use an exterior site like Photobucket.com or when you post in the "Go Advanced" version of the posting there will be a "Manage Attachments" tab below the text box. Click on that and you can upload images and place them into the post and they will look like this below and get larger when you click on them.

 

[jongekj1]

Here's a pic of the original first 3 rounds out of my rifle. The box of lot# 3100xxx primers look exactly the same as these. Does this look similar to your 700 rifle? Should I be sending my new rifle back to savage? I guess my biggest concern is safety in this situation

 

[jongekj1]

Hmmm.... guess the picture didn't work. Rob01 do you have an email I can send a picture to?

 

[Rob01]

Hmmm.... guess the picture didn't work. Rob01 do you have an email I can send a picture to?

Once you upload the picture to the manage attachments you have to hit insert inline down at the bottom right of the box. If the pic is already in your home folder you need to grab it and drop it in the bottom attachments section first.

 

[jongekj1]

Once you upload the picture to the manage attachments you have to hit insert inline down at the bottom right of the box. If the pic is already in your home folder you need to grab it and drop it in the bottom attachments section first.

Ok trying this again

 

[omgtkk]

Jongekj,
Slow down for a minute. I wouldn't worry about sending the rifle back to Savage because of the appearance of those primers. I've done ladder tests with H4350 and 140g bullets starting with very mild loads. The primer strikes looked like that on every spent casing from the mildest to the hottest loads. So I'm prone to believe that the cratered appearance is normal for that rifle. Your primers don't looked flattened either. So other than the primers, what other issues are you having with the rifle.

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[Rob01]

Yeah those primers are fine. That's not flat at all. Still nice rounded edges. Those "craters" are just from firing pin hole. My .308 looks the exact same.

 

[BoilerUP]

Also, no ejector swipe on the brass.

I will say, none of my Savages do that to primers with the exception of my long action 223AI, which leaves minor craters on pretty much everything.

 

[Aimsmall55]

Ok trying this againView attachment 41316

Nothing at all wrong except a strong firing pin. You're good to go.

 

[jongekj1]

Thanks for all the input. And [omgtkk] that seems to be the only "problem" I've noticed since I started shooting. I've only ran 25 rounds thru the gun but ill continue shooting now that I know it's not an issue. I have some 314xxxx lots I plan to shoot next so hopefully I can come up with some good groups.

 

[Capt Academy]

Tag

 

[eravelo]

pics of the "New"

Got a few boxes of 140 and 120 ammo from Sportsmansguide.
Curious to see no recommended load data on the 140's Lot #3141521.
The recommended load for the 120's uses Varget.
Glad I have H4350 and Varget in the cupboard anyway.
Will report accuracy later.

 

[Rob01]

Everyone was complaining when the data was there so don't be surprised it's not there anymore. I am sure now people will complain it's not there

 

[thrusty]

Everyone was complaining when the data was there so don't be surprised it's not there anymore. I am sure now people will complain it's not there

Very true...

Here's what I did with a new lot this past weekend at 600yrds...84.9mm 5-shot group. The factory ammo still works...

 

[eravelo]

Never doubted Hornady...

 

[Whiskey 2-1]

I did some testing today with the previously mentioned "hot" but good lot 3132922.
I bought a large quantity of this cheap right about when this thread was starting, so I was a little nervous about whether it would perform. Lucky me, it did well, but was a little faster as other described.

Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor 140 Amax
Lot 3132922
Gun: AIAE 24" Bartlein
Weather: 92F, humidity 60%

Without suppressor
High - 2861
Low - 2805
Mean - 2826
ES - 56
SD - 16

With TBAC 30P
High - 2859
Low - 2808
Mean 2836
ES - 51
SD - 13

Groups were in keeping with what I expect
10 shot groups shot during chrony session were standing laying on concrete bench
5 shot groups shot prone on ground









Older lots shot for comparison
Lot 3121293
High - 2808
Low - 2743
Mean - 2784
ES - 65
SD - 19

Another 312 lot
No can
High - 2834
Low - 2806
Mean - 2819
ES - 28
SD - 9

With can (getting quite hot)
High - 2902
Low - 2788
Mean - 2832
ES - 114
SD - 32

So it shoots well out of the AI, and does appear to be a tad faster than their older lots.
All things considered, this appears to be one of the better 313 lots (thank goodness).
Of note, it is the only lot I have shot so far (out of about 4k rounds from 6 or more lots) through this gun which had a significant zero shift from prior lots. This lot printed .2-.3 mil high without the suppressor from my usual zero.

Sean

 

[kevinjs1]

Excellent data MD. Thank you

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[JUNO]

Went out today and as MD, I too, had 3132922.... Same result... Barrel break in as recommended by Benchmark (3 x 5 shots groups. Cleaning between groups and 10rd final group) and groups were well under MOA.... Pulled several shots and thus not making it 1/2 moa groups.
Did dot drill for second time, ever, on last 10rd string and initial 5 rounds were all touching dots...

#3132922 is good batch!

 

[Aimsmall55]

Very true...

Here's what I did with a new lot this past weekend at 600yrds...84.9mm 5-shot group. The factory ammo still works...

Awesome Thrusty.... Glad to see its shooting. Btw.. That's some serious freaking gear you got there !