Rifle Scopes The LAST scope you'd ever own?

[earthquake]

I'm looking for a good scope, maybe my last? A do-it-all optic of high quality, durability and usefulness.

I'm getting tired of the rat-race and "keeping up with the Joneses" aspect of PR comp/shooting etc. I'm putting together a .308 do-it-all rifle for fun, hunting, night-vision and the occasional match: TL3, Manners T6A, Badger NV rail. One rifle.

What would be some suggestions, if you could only buy and own one more scope, what would it be? (Ok, realistically, a scope for the foreseeable future)?

I've owned Razor (gen I), ATACR, Cronus, Leupold, SWFA, and have always lusted for a PMII. But, there is so much out there now. Budget is ~$3k.

Minox? S&B? TT? K525i? Premier?
Who and why? Thanks!

 

[pmclaine]

If you have lusted for a PMII I guess it would be time to satisfy the lust.

 

[StrayDog]

I've been down this path--found it best to choose your favorite reticle first!

 

[Shadow knows]

Been thinking the same. Looking hard at Zeiss again because I miss my conquest 5 when dusk came around. The Zeiss V8 is amazing it’s just MOA and I am a MIL guy.
But it I only had one rifle and One scope to do all, that would be on top of my Tikka but I am more a hunter than a match guy.

 

[scudzuki]

I guess I've standardized on the Minox ZP5.
I have two 5-25s, one with MR2 and one with MR4 reticle.
Good glass, good turrets, good tracking, useful reticles, lifetime warranty covering defects AND accidental damage, backed by an optics company that's been around for a long time.
I'm 53 so they should last me the rest of my life.
I've owned many alpha scopes, and most were excellent, but curiosity had me constantly changing them out in search of something.
I'm not saying I found that something in the Minox scopes, but they do everything a tactical scope is supposed to do, and quite well at that.

 

[Fig]

I don't own one, but the optical snobby snobs say TT is the pinnacle of man's achievements. So, if you only get one you may as well have the best. Right?

 

[earthquake]

I think with my budget, if I went TT, it'd have to be the 3-15x. I am still looking hard at the PMII, but am wondering since it's now "older-tech", if I should inquire elsewhere?
The Minox sound like a really nice choice too. I've never looked at Zeiss, thanks for the input, I will check those out too.
I'm not above a Bushnell or GenII Razor either.
Just thought I'd pose the question differently than, "what scope should I get?".
Looking for durability, company support, and quality craftsmanship/features.

 

[pmclaine]

I don't own one, but the optical snobby snobs say TT is the pinnacle of man's achievements. So, if you only get one you may as well have the best. Right?

My favorite scope is my Premier 3-15 single turn and based on the lineage with Tangent Theta thats the enxt scope I would want to try.

But truth be told my favorite scope is my cheapest....

Got 3 of these Leupold/Redfield repros for less than anyo one of my other scopes and having fun.

 

[scudzuki]

I don't own one, but the optical snobby snobs say TT is the pinnacle of man's achievements. So, if you only get one you may as well have the best. Right?

Maybe when they come out with a better reticle, but personally I wouldn't spend the $1500 premium over the cost of the Minox on a TT.

 

[Huskydriver]

Its hard for me to get over the gen II razor with no questions asked if it ever goes down on me...thing is a tank though... I have 3 and have never had an issue with any of them. With the mil discount its hard to beat the price too but that is just me.

 

[lennyo3034]

I don't think I will ever stop lusting after the latest and greatest.

It's very possible 5 years from now, everything will be obsolete and replaced with scopes incorporating weather and ballistic solvers.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Personally, I wouldn't put a >20X on a 308, unless it was a dedicated range gun that would never see improvised positions or field use.
Next, I've not used the Minox mentioned above, but do have a TT 3-15 Pro on a 6.5CM gasser and it is my favorite all-around scope (though a close runner up is an old Hensoldt 3-12x56 that is nothing short of optically amazing.) The TT is built very tough, turrets are an improvement over the old Premier Heritage 3-15, and is optically great. All my Premiers have tracked true to the limits of my use.
Lastly, as said before: don't get what you "need", get what you "want", else you'll be buying again soon.
Damn, one more thing: for an all-around gun, I'd scrap the 308 and get a 300 WinMag, but that's just me: more reach, more ass when it gets there.

 

[Sniper266]

Tremor 3 recital in a NF ATACR 5x25, digi lum on a spur qd mount is on my wish list.
But the reality is that technology changes so fast that in 5-10 years there will be something new and better out

 

[earthquake]

Interesting thoughts about magnification...thanks. I've also always liked the NF ATACR 4-16x. Just didn't want to be handicapped for more mag. Run around 15-16x at comps anyway, but was always told to have 25+ at ones disposal....just in case.

Though for clip-on NV/thermal, lower mag is recommended.

Lots to ponder...4-16atacr or 3-15 TT? ?

 

[BLKWLFK9]

NF 7-35 with mil c

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Beyond about $2500, it is diminishing returns, for sure. The difference in the 2, depending on the discounts you can get, is $1500 on the top end. For that, I'd be hard pressed to write that check.
Both are strong as hell with very good internals. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say the glass is close, and I like the TT turrets much better than the ATACR, and I prefer the TT illumination too. And the Gen2 XR is an awesome reticle for how I use it. The question you have to ask is will you be happy with either, since you want a PM2. Beyond that, you describe it as a "one and done", which screams for more than an ATACR - at least to me.

 

[PusherX11]

If ZCO would get off the pot and get some optics out, by the looks of them they could be “the one and done”. Great reticle options, mag ranges, schott glass, and supposed state of the art internals. The people behind ZCO have done great things in the optic world.

 

[beenjammin]

For me it really depends on the rifle.

For a short action and semi the 4-16 ATACR mil-c is perfect for size, weight, reticle. Does everything out to a grand easily and is not heavy to lug around

For a LA it gets to reticle preference, the MR4 is my fav reticle at the moment, but the mil-c NF 7-35 would work.
... I thought I would forever swear by S&B

 

[koshkin]

Tangent Theta, to me, is still the best overall, though not by all that much.

I own TT315M for that reason

However, there is no shortage of excellent scopes out there, but since for hunting, etc I also want it to be adequately light, it is TT315M for me.

With S&B, look hard at the 3-20x50.

With Kahles, consider K318i.

ILya

 

[BangBangBlatBlat]

I got the PMII 3-20x50 as my do everything scope. Having 3x is a game changer for the way that I hunt.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

What ever it is, it should have a track record of durability and accurate tracking. The magnification that seems to be most useful for the greatest number of roles is a FFP scope with a max magnification around 15x or so.

Why 15x you ask? Wouldn't a 3-25x be better? No...Because in a FFP scope the reticle gets smaller as the power is turned down. On more powerful scopes the reticle can be all but unusable at the lower magnifications.

Next is the length and shape. Looking at the distance from the turrets to the objective bell, you will notice that some are short and compact, and others are much longer. This has two effects as far as I can tell. The shorter scopes tend to have less depth of field, meaning that a smaller area in front of and behind the object being glassed is in full focus.

Also, the scopes with the shorter objective bell housings tend to have a parallax adjustment that is "faster". This means that the parallax knob is turned less to make adjustments, but it also makes it more finicky and less precise. One last consideration is that the shorter scopes have a steeper angle from the center of the tube, where the rings go, to the edge of the objective bell. This gives slightly less latitude in where the scope can be mounted on the rail in certain instances.

Just my opinion and observations, take it for what it's worth.

 

[Vargmat]

My 5-25x56 PM2 with MSR reticle will never leave me. It's a proven companion and I can't find a single reason to replace it.

 

[hypno02]

I still believe the Nightforce NXS F1 3-15 to be the best all around riflescope money can buy when all factors are figured in.

-Great mag range
-Great price (you can find them used for +-$1400
-Tracking history that can't be matched
-Reliability history that can't be matched
-Utterly bombproof construction
-*Decent* Illumination
-Company that is firmly rooted
-*Decent* reticle options (TMR Style or H59 sans illumination)
-Integrated PTL (disguised as the scope's ocular housing)
-10mil turrets w/ ZS
-Still work when you shoot bullets through them

Only thing they're missing is better illum, better reticles, locking turrets. If you gotta have those then get the 4-16 ATACR. I can't justify the price difference.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

I still believe the Nightforce NXS F1 3-15 to be the best all around riflescope money can buy when all factors are figured in.

-Great mag range
-Great price (you can find them used for +-$1400
-Tracking history that can't be matched
-Reliability history that can't be matched
-Utterly bombproof construction
-*Decent* Illumination
-Company that is firmly rooted
-*Decent* reticle options (TMR Style or H59 sans illumination)
-Integrated PTL (disguised as the scope's ocular housing)
-10mil turrets w/ ZS
-Still work when you shoot bullets through them

Only thing they're missing is better illum, better reticles, locking turrets. If you gotta have those then get the 4-16 ATACR. I can't justify the price difference.

Yep, Tangent Theta may very well be the best scope on the planet. But I would take 2 or 3 nightforces over one TT every single time.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I've had the S&B scopes for years and they have never given me an issue.

However the PMII line (most of what you see in the "tactical" or "competition" world) are a bit on the large and heavy side, and may not be the best for a hunting rifle you will be carrying all day (they do make a large range of lighter hunting specific scopes).

 

[koshkin]

Yep, Tangent Theta may very well be the best scope on the planet. But I would take 2 or 3 nightforces over one TT every single time.

Well, the question was about the last scope, not the last scopes.

ILya

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Yep, Tangent Theta may very well be the best scope on the planet. But I would take 2 or 3 nightforces over one TT every single time.

That's the awesome thing about the nature of freedom: you make your choices, I make mine, and both may be valuable data points to the OP.

But 2 or 3 scopes means 2 or 3 rifles, then this just got complicated-er.

 

[BH30-06]

S&B pm ll

 

[TerryH]

Question: why the worry about a FFP ret getting very small on low power e.g. 3x?

Never found the necessity to ‘range’ on 3x and the ret is more than visible to utilise - or am I missing something (pun intended )

 

[JayB]

Question: why the worry about a FFP ret getting very small on low power e.g. 3x?

Never found the necessity to ‘range’ on 3x and the ret is more than visible to utilise - or am I missing something (pun intended )

More important use of a reticle is for holdover than for ranging. When reticle gets small at low power you lose the precision of using the reticle for hold.

 

[JayB]

I'm looking for a good scope, maybe my last? A do-it-all optic of high quality, durability and usefulness.

Whatever scope you end up with now, if you can discipline yourself in not looking at new scope announcements, reviews, discussions, you might be able to call it your last, at least for a while.

In reality, new scopes come out all the time, and they get better with engineering, features, quality, usability. What's considered best this year may not be so hot next year. PRS blog publishes "What Pros Use" and when it comes to optics, things change every 2~3 years. http://precisionrifleblog.com/2017/03/03/long-range-scopes-pros-use/

Optics manufacturers, like any other manufacturers, are coming out with new scopes every year because they want to push people to upgrade. If Apple sold the "best phone ever" and never came out with anything even better than the best they'd probably not be so rich right now.

 

[OzzyO20]

I too always wanted a PMII, then I got one. You wont see me own another scope, unless it's another PMII.

 

[Steel+Killer]

Yep, Tangent Theta may very well be the best scope on the planet. But I would take 2 or 3 nightforces over one TT every single time.

I am not trying to turn this into a bash TT thread, but there is another thread where http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/tangent-theta-5-25-and-spuhr.6897576/ apparently a TT can't handle more than 15" pounds of torque when mounted in a SPUHR mount and other mounts without the parallax mechanism getting bound up. I was very surprised by that, a TT was on my short list, but I think I will have to pass on it now.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

I recall Premier had a similar issue, but in their 3-15. I have the TT 3-15 Pro in an Aadmount and have had no issues, no binding, no problems with parallax function.

I read the thread, most of those that own/run TT have said no issues. If putting it on a 338LM, maybe some concern; otherwise, I wouldn't sweat it. But that's just my brand of stupid, I guess: right tool for the job, don't worry about whether it'll do a different job.

 

[steve123]

Do like many of us did which is taking your best picks in high quality glass, with your favorite features, and buy used. In the end go back to or keep your favorite.

I just can't get past the S&B PM2 5-25x56/H59. It's got everything I like/want and I can't see any scope being much better.

 

[Temper]

I'm thinking I'll have my 7-35 ATACR with the Mil-C for a long time. Really liked my 3-20 PMII but at the end of the day 15x on the top end was worth it. I didn't gain anything having such a low power, reticle was barely visible until you hit 6-7x power anyways. Might not even need a spotting scope now,

 

[big4x42u]

I have been down this road and saved for a year when I decided to buy my first high end scope. It was a PMII with the P4F reticle. I have enjoyed this piece of glass so much. I just like what Straydog said pick the reticle you want first and foremost , that will lower your amount of options. Another great piece of advice is to go and see if you can find the scopes you want to purchase and actually get to use them on the range. This is what friends with higher quality scopes will help you with. Doesn't have to be the exact reticle but you can see with your own eyes the glass clarity.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Well, the question was about the last scope, not the last scopes.

ILya

The implication was that any of the top scopes could be "the last scope". The OP didn't say "the most expensive".

 

[Deleted member 113831]

I am not trying to turn this into a bash TT thread, but there is another thread where http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/tangent-theta-5-25-and-spuhr.6897576/ apparently a TT can't handle more than 15" pounds of torque when mounted in a SPUHR mount and other mounts without the parallax mechanism getting bound up. I was very surprised by that, a TT was on my short list, but I think I will have to pass on it now.

I have never owned a TT and can't vouch for it in anyway. I used the word "may" to simply acknowdege the possibility.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

I'll be the odd one out.
I already own my last scope/s They all are 3.5x10x40 M-3 mk 4's Leupolds (save one m1) with moa tree ret's. Lite, compact (compared) an good to a grand w/o issue. I hate heavy if I'm going to hump it. Easy to quarter a moa target to a grand or see a close mover. Never have to dial anything until I get past 800 with the .223, 900 with a 308, 1200 with the 300wm or 1300 using a 338lm.

 

[Covertnoob5]

You know, I thought my 7-35 T3 was going to be it, but damn if I’m not having fun with this premier 3-15 tactical I just acquired. Gen 2 mil dot is refreshingly simple after using h59/T3 and other tree reticles for so long. Hope to take it to the match this weekend for the first time and see if not having a tree bites me.

I think at the end of the day for a lot of us there won’t be a “last scope”

I’m really enjoying the awesome FOV with a 3-15 optic but now I have to carry my spotter because I don’t have that 35x top end. So I think it’s different scopes for different uses. I hunt out west where using my NF at 35x to spot game wayyy out there was really helpful, but it’s much easier to find a target with 3x on the low end.

 

[SLG]

I'll be the odd one out.
I already own my last scope/s They all are 3.5x10x40 M-3 mk 4's Leupolds (save one m1) with moa tree ret's. Lite, compact (compared) an good to a grand w/o issue. I hate heavy if I'm going to hump it. Easy to quarter a moa target to a grand or see a close mover. Never have to dial anything until I get past 800 with the .223, 900 with a 308, 1200 with the 300wm or 1300 using a 338lm.

Can you post a link or picture of your reticle? Curious to see it. What does leupold call it?

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Can you post a link or picture of your reticle? Curious to see it. What does leupold call it?

impact 32 is what the 10X's have the 20X has the same tree design but only 29. You can get them in SFP or FFP they just need your scope info an they can tell you what ret will work in yours. Here is the 32's I have in 3 or them.
https://www.leupold.com/reticles/reticle-impact-32-moa-173

You can see the whole line here. https://www.leupold.com/reticles?page=1

 

[47guy]

Kahles only brand I’ll own after the one I have now and live owned a bunch of high end glass over the years

 

[MACHTECH]

If I only got to pick one to rely on forever, it would be my PMII 5-25 Gen II XR. It's built like a brick shithouse and will still be here long after me.

 

[m6z]

S&B 5-25
Nightforce 7-35

Since those are way out of my budget. I'm thinking EOTECH 5-25 for gas guns and Athlon 4.5-30 for the bolt gun.

 

[Hondo64d]

I'm looking for a good scope, maybe my last? A do-it-all optic of high quality, durability and usefulness.

I'm getting tired of the rat-race and "keeping up with the Joneses" aspect of PR comp/shooting etc. I'm putting together a .308 do-it-all rifle for fun, hunting, night-vision and the occasional match: TL3, Manners T6A, Badger NV rail. One rifle.

What would be some suggestions, if you could only buy and own one more scope, what would it be? (Ok, realistically, a scope for the foreseeable future)?

I've owned Razor (gen I), ATACR, Cronus, Leupold, SWFA, and have always lusted for a PMII. But, there is so much out there now. Budget is ~$3k.

Minox? S&B? TT? K525i? Premier?
Who and why? Thanks!

No one has made my perfect scope yet...

That being said, with what’s available right now, I’d probably go with a Nightforce 4-16 ATACR F1 with the Mil-C reticle.

John

 

[maverickasu]

Kahles 5-25 is what I would lean too

But that's cause I LOVE the SKMR3 reticle... I would pick favorite reticle out off all the alpha level glass and go with that

 

[Luvman]

My “last” scope would be a 3-27 PMII with 34mil adjustment.

Awesome FOV at 3x and 27x up top is plenty for anything.

34mil should be enough travel to take any rifle your shoulder could handle out to its max range.

My second choice would be 3-20x PMII and would actually fit your budget.

Unfortunately I couldn’t yet stretch my budget far enough for either of the scopes above so I ended up with a 3-18 Razor.

 

[hypno02]

I'll be the odd one out.
I already own my last scope/s They all are 3.5x10x40 M-3 mk 4's Leupolds (save one m1) with moa tree ret's. Lite, compact (compared) an good to a grand w/o issue. I hate heavy if I'm going to hump it. Easy to quarter a moa target to a grand or see a close mover. Never have to dial anything until I get past 800 with the .223, 900 with a 308, 1200 with the 300wm or 1300 using a 338lm.

I will give this recommendation props as another optic that is utterly reliable and pretty tough to break.