Rifle Scopes The truth about Leupold thread

[MilDot1960]

HRF, theres something bugging me about Leupold and some of the issue's raised here which is making me lean towards other brands and that bothers me in that I want to buy a Mark 4 Kit to go with my Mark 4 10x50s but after reading peoples views here and else where I must admit that I'm not sure I want to out lay all that cash just to be disapointed,

I know that alot of peoples complaints are based on the fact that other companies have had some great Ideas, but maybe Leupolds answer to this is IF it ain't broke dont fix it ????, And I wonder why they have never made a long range Rangefinder as Bushnell have done along with G-7 etc etc, I think unless Leupold start giving people the products they want and need then they are going to losse out to Bushnell, NF, Vortex and G-7 etc and I think this Ps alot of people off because they want to remain loyal to Leupold but they dont give us what the others do, And that really anoys me because I want all of my gear to be Leupold and that they are making this an impossible task and To Add insult to injury they then price them selve's out of the market when people like Vortex come along with good Tacticle gear at a 3rd of the price,

I sure hope Leupold reads this because the UK police have just dumped most of their gear and changed over to Vortex and I have not seen this years figure of how much the US Military have spent on Leupold Optics but I bet its no where the millions they have spent Last year,

John

 

[GhostFace]

This, coincidentally, is where I think a lot of the negative sentiment directed at Leupold originates. It's not that there is anything really wrong with the products they offer. Rather, people just become annoyed when the particular bell or whistle they want isn't in the line-up. I also think Leupy has tried hard to rectify that perception of late.

HRF

That and what they were charging for what you get. I'm talking about the current MK IV line up. There is no doubt the Vortex has them owned on their MKIV line. And that is coming from an owner of both products.

 

[chevytruck_83]

I purchased a used leupold vxiii 6.5-20x50 with the 30mm tube and parralax on the bell. The day i took it to the range to mount it the wind blew it right off the bench onto concrete.. Visually there were no marks or damage of any sort. Since I had no idea of the history of the scope or if the drop damaged it I called leupold. The customer service in my experience was second to none. They said send it out and we will go over it and install new internals just to be sure. I was fully expecting to pay some sort of fee since dropping it on concrete surely wasnt something you would expect to be covered... but all i was to pay was shipping. I was so delited with my experience that I had them install their new tactical milling reticle. all the while I had to send a savage model 12 back because it was grouping more then 3 feet low at 100. Savage had my gun for about 2 weeks before i sent my scope to leupold and my leupold was back long before my savage. So in the end. Leupold answers your call in a timely manner, warranties just about anything and is very respectful throughout the whole process. No they may not offer all the bells and whistles that some new brands do but you know the specs when you buy and you can get top dollar if you ever do decide to sell.

 

[CrazyDonkey]

What does Leupold not give in regards to their scopes? I am really not seeing where they are lacking.

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

I'm generally pleased with the half dozen Leupold scopes I've owned in 8 years. I'm in total agreement with the comment above about the lack of definitive information about the myriad of model names and numbers, it seem like the sales people are in charge and don't want to leave any corner of the market without a Leupold product. If I saw a particular Leupold for sale on SH I would probably not know whether it was a current model or 10 years old. I don't recall ever having a problem with any Leupold that I've used, which have primarily been for rimfires. I like the size and feel of these scopes on lightweight rifles and I really like the availability of good customer service for older Leupold scopes. Like the older Redfields, Leupold has become sort of an American classic. I have a 1.1-8x Mark 8 on an AR and it's an entirely different beast than any other Leupold I've used. It demonstrates that they can build a high performance scope if they see the market for one, although it took many years to get to this point.

hrfunk, note that people who dislike or have had a problem with a particular product or manufacturer are more likely to post and vent about their experience than people who are generally satisfied. Except for the new Mark 6 and Mark 8 scopes, few people would probably say that a Leupold really wowed them. More likely it would be a good experience with Leupold's customer service that they remember fondly.

 

[xhairs88]

I would have to pull an inventory count to see how many different Leupolds I currently own but I can tell you it is quite a few.
I got my first one when I bought a used Rem model 7 .243 and it was already mounted on it..that one is an older VariXII in 2x7 and I liked it so much that Leupold is mostly all I have bought and used ever since.
I have their rimfire scopes, fixed and variable on several different .22 rifles. I have an old Mark4 10X on a Savage .308 that still gets a lot of use. I just bought a VXR patrol 3X9 I put on a Savage 30-06 that is still under construction. Two shotgun/muzzleloader scopes that get serious use every spring and fall hunting seasons.
Heck, I even have two of the Crossbones scopes on different crossbows that I absolutely love.
My point is that I have NEVER had any troubles or problems with ANY Leupold I have ever owned in any way, shape, or form and will continue to buy and use their scopes for as long as I can predict in the future as long as it fits my budget to do so.
I am a happy Leupold user.

 

[MilDot1960]

My Point of view is that Leupold are still the best and if they make/sell the odd mistake so what, We have all made mistakes and their products are no doubt are great, All these other brands are unproven and only time (years) will do that, I think that I will still go ahead with Leupold but I sure hope there R&D department starts coming up with some new items soon, Their scopes are fine just a few other bits are needed to fill the gaps,

John

 

[xhairs88]

My Point of view is that Leupold are still the best and if they make/sell the odd mistake so what, We have all made mistakes and their products are no doubt are great, All these other brands are unproven and only time (years) will do that, I think that I will still go ahead with Leupold but I sure hope there R&D department starts coming up with some new items soon, Their scopes are fine just a few other bits are needed to fill the gaps,

John

I agree wholeheartedly.... I just wish they would make a Mark4 4.5-15x50 that was both illuminated and first focal plane. I could only imagine how many they would sell?

 

[MilDot1960]

I agree wholeheartedly.... I just wish they would make a Mark4 4.5-15x50 that was both illuminated and first focal plane. I could only imagine how many they would sell?

I think if they did that I would be camping on their doorstep screaming let me in just to get my sticky little Mits on it

John

 

[CrazyDonkey]

If the illumination isn't a need, they make one in FFP already. I personally have never seen the need for the illumination so it has never been a missed spot in my opinion.

 

[deadnbrkn84]

My friend was shopping for a new competition scope. We were at shot show this year and looking at all the usual suspects. Looked at the Razor 5-20 (which I currently own), Bushnell, March, Leupold (he was looking at the Mark 8), Horus etc. When I asked the guy at the Leupold what it was priced as insanely high as it was, I basically got a "because it's leupold". They were pretentious and extremely unhelpful at the booth (seriously?). As if they could give a shit that we were shopping for a $4k scope. We both left there pretty unimpressed with them as a whole.

Fast forward to sunday, we are flying out of Vegas and the guy in the seat in front of me turns out to be a Leupold engineer. My friend is chatting it up with him and I purpose the same question to him. Why are you guys charging such an insanely high price for these. I told him I had a Razor and was very happy with it for quite a bit less money. He said well your Razor is blurry around the edges and it costs that much to get glass that doesn't do that. I told him that my scope was in fact not blurry around the edges and I didn't know what he was talking about. He turned around and just stopped talking to me.

Cool. That just secured the fact that I won't be buying anymore Leupold items. The entire thing rubbed me the wrong way. For a high dollar scope my money is going to a Schmidt. Until then I will be running Vortex's stuff and loving it.

 

[LibertyOptics]

As a dealer, the bottom line is that other brands offer quality/features that are equal to or better than Lupy for less $$. I deal mostly with tactical/Sniper's Hide types.

Case in point, Vortex Viper PST vs Leupy Mark 4. The PST offers matching turret/reticle increments, FFP or SFP, light weight, 30mm tube, side focus, ZERO STOP, illumination, decent glass, ranging reticle and fabulous warranty and service for hundreds less than the Mark 4 series. Vortex aimed for the Mark 4 market when they created the PST and they hit the bullseye. I can't keep the PST in stock and which Mark 4 would you like to buy?

Lupy's customer service, the 3 times in the last 5 years I had to use it, was great.

Own and use two "GOV" models 3.5-10x40 M2 FDE. The knob feel is terribly vague but I like the scopes alot, old fashioned SFP TMR, light weight, they both currently reside in ADM mounts and happily help me sight in and test a host of .308 semi-autos, hold zero very well, track just fine and the M2 BDC is a hoot. Nice glass too.

Last two issues I've had both involved Mark 6 scopes. One was labeled as a CMR-W reticle but when removed from the box was a TMR. The other had the Tremor-2 reticle flipped backwards, so the numbers are a mirror image of themselves. Not good for a scope well over $2000.

 

[CrazyDonkey]

Last two issues I've had both involved Mark 6 scopes. One was labeled as a CMR-W reticle but when removed from the box was a TMR. The other had the Tremor-2 reticle flipped backwards, so the numbers are a mirror image of themselves. Not good for a scope well over $2000.

How many problems have you had with Vortex scopes?

 

[Longshot38]

Alright so my experience with Leupold. Years ago when I got my 300 Weatherby my gunsmith sold me on a Leupold MK4 4.5-14x40 for that rifle. It wasn't the scope I had initally planned upon but given that I liked the MK4s I had been behind previously and the reputation of Leupold I gave the scope a shot. With less then 100 rounds through said rifle the scope went belly up and left me with a scope that I could dial the elevation up on but not back down. So I called Leupold and sent the scope in for repair. Leupold was very nice and accomidating during this process and the turn around time was good. When I got the scope back and reviewed what had been done. They basically had to replace all the internals. At that point my confidence in the scope was shot and I sold the scope.

Now given that experience and the fact that I can get a better built product from other manufacturers for less money. The fact that I'm not a huge fan of Leupolds reticle selection. My dislike for the Mark 4 erector design. And the fact that Leupold rode on the coat tails of its success for over a decade while ignoring its customers and hiking it's prices. I really don't see me ever purchaseing another one of their scopes.

With all that being said some of their new products look to be innovative and it seems they have been trying to correct some of the errors of the past. And good for them. But the optical quality offered by them is only good (not great). And their quality control seems to still be what it was.

 

[MilDot1960]

LongShot38, So what brand have you gone with, Thats a sad thing that you went through there being a new Rifle too, but at leased Leupold dug deep and did put things right, but I do understand how you feel,

john

 

[Longshot38]

LongShot38, So what brand have you gone with, Thats a sad thing that you went through there being a new Rifle too, but at leased Leupold dug deep and did put things right, but I do understand how you feel,

john

Since I have been through a lot of scopes. That particular rifle I purchased an IOR for after the Leupold however it was stolen shortly after I replaced the scope and thus was unable to get much time behind it. But as things are right now I have a Premier 5-25x56 on my 338, a SWFA Super Sniper 5-20x50 on my large frame AR, and a Vortex Viper PST 1-4x24 on my small frame AR.

 

[hrfunk]

I'm generally pleased with the half dozen Leupold scopes I've owned in 8 years. I'm in total agreement with the comment above about the lack of definitive information about the myriad of model names and numbers, it seem like the sales people are in charge and don't want to leave any corner of the market without a Leupold product. If I saw a particular Leupold for sale on SH I would probably not know whether it was a current model or 10 years old. I don't recall ever having a problem with any Leupold that I've used, which have primarily been for rimfires. I like the size and feel of these scopes on lightweight rifles and I really like the availability of good customer service for older Leupold scopes. Like the older Redfields, Leupold has become sort of an American classic. I have a 1.1-8x Mark 8 on an AR and it's an entirely different beast than any other Leupold I've used. It demonstrates that they can build a high performance scope if they see the market for one, although it took many years to get to this point.

hrfunk, note that people who dislike or have had a problem with a particular product or manufacturer are more likely to post and vent about their experience than people who are generally satisfied. Except for the new Mark 6 and Mark 8 scopes, few people would probably say that a Leupold really wowed them. More likely it would be a good experience with Leupold's customer service that they remember fondly.

I'm aware of this phenomenon. Part of the reason I started this thread is to give everyone a chance to express their opinions. I'm hoping some of the people who usually remain part of the silent majority choose to speak out. I think some of them already have.

HRF

 

[redhooker]

Some things loopy could do to improve:

Reticles. And I don't mean some $400 upgrade to horus. Some real choices-for MOA shooters as well.
Zero stop.
Did I mention the reticle choices suck?

I like mil/mil. But I don't understand how an MOA shooter could even consider a loopy-if they have other choices I have been unable to find them on their website. They obviously make a quality product, and I would have no doubts about their CS, but lately it's harder to find bad CS in optics than good.

 

[George Az]

Just to clarify, you do know that Redfield is now owned by Leupold, right?

Yes, I am well aware of that. Which is why I find it so difficult to understand Leupold's writings/advertising and information. It seems that the "cheaper" little brother is trying hard to put something out. Redfield looks like it wants your business, Leupold doesn't care - like Rolls Royce, R/R could care less if I won the lottery and became a customer (not that I would anyway - but I a making a point). I have owned some Leupolds in the past, ordered some binos for work and been pleased with the results. I like their binoculars - I think they are a fantastic value and not on the high end either.

 

[HawkeyeEngineer]

I have only one Leupold scope but have no complaints with it. It's a VX-3 that I have on a hunting rifle with a 200 yard zero so I don't track and return to zero much at all, but the overall quality is more than satisfactory and I feel the price was fair (don't remember what I paid for it a couple of years ago).

I haven't had to deal with their customer service personally, but my hunting partner had a wonderful experience. Long story short, he and I were hunting and he tripped on a wire in the snow. He fell on his rifle so hard that he broke the butt stock of his Browning BAR and his Leupold Scope (VX-III) bent in front of his scope ring. He called Leupold to see if they could repair it and sent it in fully expecting to pay for it all since it was his mistake, not anything that Leupold did wrong. When the repair tech received it they called him back to ask exactly what happened so he was honest and told them again that it was his fault. Since it was a VX-III model that they no longer make or had repair parts for, and likely since he was honest with them, they sent him a brand new VX-3 model free of charge.

Leupold could have easily told him that it was an outdated model, was beyond repair and that it was a customer error and that he would just have to buy a new scope. But they didn't and they went above and beyond what I would have expected to make him happy. That right there gives them brownie points and will earn them future business from me as I'm saving up for a Mark 4.

I find being honest and kind to customer service, even if it's something they did wrong, goes a long way when dealing with any customer service as they will treat you with the same respect you give them.

 

[CrazyDonkey]

Some things loopy could do to improve:

Reticles. And I don't mean some $400 upgrade to horus. Some real choices-for MOA shooters as well.
Zero stop.
Did I mention the reticle choices suck?

I like mil/mil. But I don't understand how an MOA shooter could even consider a loopy-if they have other choices I have been unable to find them on their website. They obviously make a quality product, and I would have no doubts about their CS, but lately it's harder to find bad CS in optics than good.

They have other reticles in the mk 6 and 8 line and they have zero stop as well. Could they come out with a MOA/MOA scope? Sure, but I don't really care.

Edit: I didn't see the MOA on the reticle statement the first time. I can understand why you as an MOA shooter would want that and it can be a deterrent for you because they don't have one.

 

[lifebreath]

I don't have much Leupold experience, but I recently bought a Mark 8 CQBSS and am very happy with it. I called CS to get a 7.62 BDC ring and the guy was very helpful and I had it in the mail in a few days.

 

[Muskox]

I'm generally pleased with the half dozen Leupold scopes I've owned in 8 years. I'm in total agreement with the comment above about the lack of definitive information about the myriad of model names and numbers, it seem like the sales people are in charge and don't want to leave any corner of the market without a Leupold product. If I saw a particular Leupold for sale on SH I would probably not know whether it was a current model or 10 years old. I don't recall ever having a problem with any Leupold that I've used, which have primarily been for rimfires. I like the size and feel of these scopes on lightweight rifles and I really like the availability of good customer service for older Leupold scopes. Like the older Redfields, Leupold has become sort of an American classic. I have a 1.1-8x Mark 8 on an AR and it's an entirely different beast than any other Leupold I've used. It demonstrates that they can build a high performance scope if they see the market for one, although it took many years to get to this point.

hrfunk, note that people who dislike or have had a problem with a particular product or manufacturer are more likely to post and vent about their experience than people who are generally satisfied. Except for the new Mark 6 and Mark 8 scopes, few people would probably say that a Leupold really wowed them. More likely it would be a good experience with Leupold's customer service that they remember fondly.

I think you nailed it exactly, nothing in Leupolds line up is reallying going to knock your socks off when compared with someone like Zeiss/Hendsolt or Schmidt Bender. But Leupolds customer service is bar-none, and I think they are far from the concept of a "guaranteed piece of shit in a box", they make good products, maybe not the best but when a Leupold shits itself you have the support base there to get it fixed.

A friend of mine in Australia has been raked through the coals by Leica, he has owned a pair for 8 years of the range finding model binoculars only to have them shit themselves. He sent them to Leica, and asked to be billed the cost of repair. Leica sent them back to him with a note that they no longer service that model of binoculars. $2500 down the drain.

I have sent Leupolds from the 1980s in as recently as 2008 and they came back perfectly repaired with a no charge stamp on the invoice.

I will say this, I am no Leupold fan boy, but it's hard to be really critical of them when they have such wonderful customer service, and support the military with the sales they do.

 

[Known]

I have a Leupold VX3 4.5x14 that I had Leupold install tactical turrets on. The scope came back and the optical and mechanical centers were so mismatched that I had only two clicks of right windage. At first I thought my rifle was seriously screwed up until I noticed the same thing on another rifle. I sent it back to Leupold and they fixed it, but I can't believe the scope left the factory in the first place.

I have a Mark IV 6.5 x 20 that has quite a bit of lash in the parallax adjustment. More an aggravation than anything else, but is this not supposed to be top shelf glass?

I would certainly use Leupld on a hunting rifle, but I question how well they can compete on the high end given the quality issues I have personally experienced. Of course, I've seen some recent threads about issues with S&B scopes so who knows.

I have a NF 3.5-15 F1 MLR2 on the way and I'll find out how it compares.

 

[limige]

Heres my experience..

I was handed down a remy 788 22-250 with a vari X III 3-9x42.
I used that rifle deer hunting every year from the time i was legal to a few years back. Took one or two deer every year with that rifle and did zero target practice. That gun fell over numerous times but always shot well.

I started woodchuck hunting with it and started to notice paralax issues with it at 200 yrds the AO wouldnt correct.

So i sent it to luepold for service. The disassembled greased and replaced all the O rings and installed a new objective lense free of charge.

Once recieved the scope still had paralax issues but the AO moved much more free now and the new lense was nice. I sold the scope and the gun a year later.

Since then i built a 6.5 CM and topped it with a vortex 5-15x44 mil/mil from midway.

This scope is just as clear with better magnification for less money than a luepold counterpart. The only glitch has been i noticed if you dont have the AO adjusted right your target wouldnt be in focus. I never had this issue with luepold they were always crystal clear.
This is good and bad. Good it reminds me to adjust paralax bad shooting on the fly at a fuzzy target sometimes.

In my book luepold is a great company but needs to update their product lines and prices to stay in competition.

 

[hrfunk]

What, specifically, should they add? Considering their newest products, what do they still lack in their line up?

HRF

 

[Tactical]

Leupold does not lack anything. The scopes are still what others are judged by.

Last year I switched out March scope for a Leupold Competition scope that cost roughly one third what the March did for International Competition. My scores stayed the same as with March.

I have run Leupold scopes for real life events since 1982 and have never felt I was short of anything. I am running a MK6 3-18 on my sniper rifle right now and this is my favorite FFP scope I have used to date, any brand. I am using a MK6 1-6 on my CQB to 600 yard ARs and this is best scope I have used for this use EVER

As to getting discounts. I have gotten discounts from every scope company I have used. I have gone through most of the brands and ended up going back to Leupold for every need. I just see no need to change.

This is not slagging other brands, at all. Nightforce, SxB, Premiere, March and SWFA are all excellent scopes and would serve anyone well. This is not 1960 where scopes stink for our use. Its 2013 and we have lots of great options. The equipment out there is mostly fantastic

I just wish folks would not bash other brands to make them feel better about their pick of gear. Its not all good or bad. Its mostly a lot of real good choices.

 

[tylerw02]

I've owned six Leupolds. I've sent three in for custom shop features (knobs) and one in for repair. The repair job was a new VX-3 that didn't last five rounds on my .35 Whelen before the I could see nothing but flakes through the scope, looked as if it were loose glue. They fixed it and had it back in a week. The last scope I sent in was a used 3.5-10x40 Mark 4/TMR that I sent in for M5 knobs. The guy had misquoted me price on the phone so the check I sent with it was for less than the actual cost, but they honored the price anyway and sent it back with two weeks turn around. It came back nice and clean. The new M5 knobs were much nicer than the M1s, and matched the reticle. Its old technology, but was a great scope for the total $750 I had in it with the new knobs.

While the glass isn't as good as Nightforce and features across the line aren't that great, they are moving in the right direction. The 3.5-10x40 Mark 4 with M5 knobs and FFP TMR is the scope I wish NF would build.

 

[Tango down]

Leupold does not lack anything. The scopes are still what others are judged by.

Last year I switched out March scope for a Leupold Competition scope that cost roughly one third what the March did for International Competition. My scores stayed the same as with March.

I have run Leupold scopes for real life events since 1982 and have never felt I was short of anything. I am running a MK6 3-18 on my sniper rifle right now and this is my favorite FFP scope I have used to date, any brand. I am using a MK6 1-6 on my CQB to 600 yard ARs and this is best scope I have used for this use EVER

As to getting discounts. I have gotten discounts from every scope company I have used. I have gone through most of the brands and ended up going back to Leupold for every need. I just see no need to change.

This is not slagging other brands, at all. Nightforce, SxB, Premiere, March and SWFA are all excellent scopes and would serve anyone well. This is not 1960 where scopes stink for our use. Its 2013 and we have lots of great options. The equipment out there is mostly fantastic

I just wish folks would not bash other brands to make them feel better about their pick of gear. Its not all good or bad. Its mostly a lot of real good choices.

Tactical
10-4 on just about everything you say but, WITHOUT bashing other brands, it is good when shooters explain what issues they encounter with whatever product they are using, as well as letting others know on how the "X" company's CS handled the issue.
I mentioned in a prior post that "anything mechanical is subject to fail".
I did encounter a failure,few years ago, on one of my scopes, that some call "bulletproof", I also witnessed, a week later, another LR shooter having the same issue with a similar scope of the same brand. I mentioned the scope's brand on a prior post; in both cases the company's CS replaced these scopes with a "no question asked" policy, which means a lot in today's world. Nevertheless, after hearing of another similar failure on a 3rd scope of this brand, I will not purchase another one from them. I also know that many other shooters use them and are satisfied with these scopes; as you say, it is not good or bad and we will all pick what we think is best for the job, within our budget.
I currently own S&B, NF and Leupold scopes, as well as a 1943 Russian PU, shot thousand of rounds with each in diverse conditions, rain, dirt, sand storms ; so far, so good. This doe not mean that other shooters won't have issues with any of these.
Yes, most scopes are good nowadays but it is always good to know of others experience, as a company doing well today may not be doing so well a year from now, for whatever reason. It can also go the other way around and a company delivering so so products may go under new Management, or purchase different equipment, use different products, making a real positive difference in the quality and reliability of their scopes, good to know about that too.
One sure thing, (and very close to what you said), unlike many other products, scopes have never been as reliable as they are now.
I could have just said "always good to know what works and what does not" but it was leaving the door open to more polemic.
I think we feel the same way about "folks" talking without thinking but i also believe in constructive criticism.
Good shooting.
Ombre noire

 

[CrazyDonkey]

I believe he is talking about bashing the scope itself, not the CS. A lot of people here swear by scope brand X and say that brand Y sucks giant donkey dick. That is what he is saying I believe.

I do notice a lot though when popular scope X or whatever has an issue, people are quick to bash the member for bitching about it. A lot of times it's dust and shit inside on the lens and people are like "stop bitching about it, it's meant to be used blah blah. All you have to do is beat it against a phone book till you can't see them anymore". To me, that is retarded.

 

[hrfunk]

It is odd that this sort of sentiment seems to be more prevalent with scopes than it is with rifles and other gear. If someone posts that he just purchased rifle brand X, and experienced some sort of issue, there aren't usually a string of posts from others claiming brand X is a POS. I'm not sure why that is.

HRF

 

[CrazyDonkey]

Not sure why that is, but if you bitch about a problem with a rifle gunsmith/shop X built, you gonna catch a load of shit for the most part. Especially when people say there were chips in the stocks or scuffs on the metal, out comes the "don't be a bitch, it's meant to be a working rifle, not a safe queen blah blah blah." Fuck that, if I pay for something new it better be in pristine condition.

 

[SomeOtherGuy]

Not sure why that is, but if you bitch about a problem with a rifle gunsmith/shop X built, you gonna catch a load of shit for the most part. Especially when people say there were chips in the stocks or scuffs on the metal, out comes the "don't be a bitch, it's meant to be a working rifle, not a safe queen blah blah blah." Fuck that, if I pay for something new it better be in pristine condition.

I agree 100%. And there are at least two "tier 1" AR15 makers who ship products with ugly cosmetics, and if you complain about that at some other prominent black rifle forums you will have the entire mob set on you. A lot of people get way too wrapped up in a particular brand and start worshiping the brand instead of considering the basics.

 

[tylerw02]

I don't get upset with scratched stuff. First time it gets used, it ends up worse than anything I've seen from the factory. Functionality trumps cosmetics. As per the AR15 example, I'd take a good Colt LE6920 with flakes in the anodizing over a pristine Bushmaster any day of the week.

If you want your gun to be pretty, fine. I want mine to work.

 

[CrazyDonkey]

I don't care about my equipment getting messed up looks wise, but I better be the one to do it. So I will take a pristine LE6920, because that's what I paid for, and mess it up. If I want something messed up I'll buy it used.

 

[hrfunk]

Well, insulting a man's rifle is a little like insulting his, well, you know.

HRF

 

[masonjp]

I own several Leupolds, and have been very satisfied with them. They have done everything I have expected them too. As stated before, the customer service is amazing, I wish more companies were like them. Are they as nice as my nightforce?...maybe not. One thing I agree with is they do need to come out with more reticles, other than that I am very happy with their products.

 

[mikeltee]

I've got a mark 4 4.5-14x50mm Illuminated and the only thing I don't like about it is the dial to select brightness. It's kind of loose and I accidentally bump it on when putting it in the safe and it drains the battery. I wish it had a locking device or else an auto-off feature. Other than that, it's a bad mofo. I recently upgraded it to the BEAST, but it will still sit on top my DPMS SASS which probably won't come out to play too often now that I got a DTA Covert.

I also think the TMR reticle is one of the best reticles on the market.

 

[hrfunk]

I have the same scope on a similar rifle and I'm quite happy with it. My illumination turret is not particularly loose. Now that yours is on a back-up rifle, you might want to send it back to Leupold and have them tighten it.

HRF

 

[MilDot1960]

I've got a mark 4 4.5-14x50mm Illuminated and the only thing I don't like about it is the dial to select brightness. It's kind of loose and I accidentally bump it on when putting it in the safe and it drains the battery. I wish it had a locking device or else an auto-off feature. Other than that, it's a bad mofo. I recently upgraded it to the BEAST, but it will still sit on top my DPMS SASS which probably won't come out to play too often now that I got a DTA Covert.

I also think the TMR reticle is one of the best reticles on the market.

I have always taken a shine to the B.E.A.S.T. but the price over here is stupid in the US its around $3298 in the UK its $4642, and I thought Leupold were expensive thats 3 Mark 4s in one scope, Thank god I'm going home soon,

But when you compare that scope with Leupold I guess the Leupold is the better deal money wise,

And I still Think that Beast is a thing of beauty, So congrats on gettin it,

John

 

[long range newbie]

I live in oregon and have about ~10 maybe more of their scopes never had a problem with their scopes, scope rings and scope bases

 

[Tango down]

Not sure why that is, but if you bitch about a problem with a rifle gunsmith/shop X built, you gonna catch a load of shit for the most part. Especially when people say there were chips in the stocks or scuffs on the metal, out comes the "don't be a bitch, it's meant to be a working rifle, not a safe queen blah blah blah." Fuck that, if I pay for something new it better be in pristine condition.

10-4, I am all for calling it as it is; we often hear "give a chance to "X" to make it right". Absolutely, I am all for that too but isn't it amazing that when enough people complain about something, then "X" starts to pay more attention to products details and customers comments. We should all give a chance to "X" to "make it right" and comments on that, once it is done properly but we should also be able to comment when it is not done right at the first place and even more so when "X" got an attitude about fixing what's wrong.
I cannot screw up big time in my job, if I do, people get hurt and they are many of us around, with different jobs to do. If we make small mistakes, we make sure it does not happen again and someone will make sure to let us know that we screwed up and not in a nice way.
If we are going to spend large amounts of $$$ on something, we expect the job to be well done, period. If some do not like being told that "something is wrong" with their products, then make it right at the first place, or don't have an attitude about fixing it.
Eventually, we will all make mistakes, that's human. What we want to learn from these is up to each individual, some just don't give a damn.
Btw, no issue with my S&B, NF and Leupold scopes
Good shooting.
Ombre noire

 

[MilDot1960]

10-4, I am all for calling it as it is; we often hear "give a chance to "X" to make it right". Absolutely, I am all for that too but isn't it amazing that when enough people complain about something, then "X" starts to pay more attention to products details and customers comments. We should all give a chance to "X" to "make it right" and comments on that, once it is done properly but we should also be able to comment when it is not done right at the first place and even more so when "X" got an attitude about fixing what's wrong.
I cannot screw up big time in my job, if I do, people get hurt and they are many of us around, with different jobs to do. If we make small mistakes, we make sure it does not happen again and someone will make sure to let us know that we screwed up and not in a nice way.
If we are going to spend large amounts of $$$ on something, we expect the job to be well done, period. If some do not like being told that "something is wrong" with their products, then make it right at the first place, or don't have an attitude about fixing it.
Eventually, we will all make mistakes, that's human. What we want to learn from these is up to each individual, some just don't give a damn.
Btw, no issue with my S&B, NF and Leupold scopes
Good shooting.
Ombre noire

But at leased we do see how willing Leupold are to fix anything weather its old, New or even a hunting accident, It seem that no matter what Leupold always come through, that speaks volume in its self and in a perfect world any of these mistake would not happen, But once they have corrected the problem then that should be the end of it I think,

John

 

[InsidetheStorm]

I might have a little to contribute to this thread. I just recently saved enough $$ to buy a decent scope for my remington 700 300WM. I have 4 small kids at the home, so even though I think I would rather have a nice S&B or NF, I cant justify 2500 to 3500 for what my wife thinks is a toilet paper tube with eyeglass lenses in it. I managed to save $1300, and using Leupolds Fed/Mil Program, I got an 8.5-25x50 m1 illum and mk4 rings. I use the same setup at work, so familiarity is important. Plus, the only problem I have had with my work scope is that I was screwing with trying to rig a battery for the illum ret, and broke somthing. The scope still works and tracks perfectly, but no illum. No big deal. I have used that scope to make 1st round hits at 1194yards on top of a AI AW .308. I'm not gentle with it, and the scope just hands down performs. I have yet to use the new one I have at home, but for + or - half the price of a comparable NF or 1/3 of a S&B I am happy. I ran the windage and elevation stop to stop, and no mush, everything seems to work perfectly.

Regarding the CS at Leupold, during the sale, I switched credit cards between placing the order and when it shipped. After it shipped, I discovered that they had charged my first card and then the second card, causing some overdraft fees from my bank. I called Leupold, and they fixed it right away, and even refunded the overdraft fees that my bank had charged. To me, thats customer service at it's best.

Now, the bad news. My department bought a pair of intigrated rangefinder/ binos, I think they were the RXB-4. Right out of the box, they were no good. Wouldn't range past 600y, and the battery would intermittently show full, then 1/4 then dead then full again. Product fail. I took them to my security officer, and he said he would deal with it. Come to find out, he claimed that Leupold said they could not fix it, as they had been discontinued, and (surprise, surprise) the government lost the receipt. I dont know whatever happened to them, but I think we had them for 6 months before trying to warranty them. Total bummer for us, as they were a really good idea, and somthing we could definately use. I would think that Leupold would upgrade us to the newer ones, or even credit for a Mk4 spotter would be nice, but nothing. This might be because of my armory, but who knows? All told, I still like Leupold products, and my father is a big fan, owning several over the last 40 years. I would not hesitate to go with Leupold, even if it was the last scope I would buy. Which this one might be after the fight I had just to get permission to buy it =]

 

[ccoker]

Had lots of Leupolds over the years, never a problem with any of them personally...

 

[hrfunk]

Probably the most common theme in this thread relates to Leupold's customer service. It appears that when/if someone encounters a problem with one of their products, they go to great lengths to rectify the situation. There have been a few negative comments regarding their CS, but those are the exceptions, not the rule.

HRF

 

[AberdeenReb]

I have 3 Leupold scopes, 2 are VX3's, and 1 MK4. I've never had a problem with any of them. I also have a Nightforce, kahles, and Swarovski. The MK4 glass to me is just as good as the nightforce, not quite up to the kahles and Swarovski. To my eyes, my MK4 glass is significantly better than any vortex (pst, not razor), sightron, and weaver that I've used. My only complaint with Leupold has been their reluctance to adopt new features and products, and they are getting a little pricey for what you get. If they could get the MK4 price down to around 1000-1100 that would be a great value.

 

[hrfunk]

I'm not trying to start an argument here, I'm just asking, what "features" are they not offering? This comment keeps popping up, but other than a reference to matching MOA/MOA turrets & reticles, and a couple of others mentioning reticle options (but not specifying what reticles they would like to see), I don't know what features they are lacking. Could someone please enlighten me?

HRF

 

[rookie7]

I have owned several Leupold hunting scopes over the past 25 years. I still own multiple models, but have tried to upgrade most of what I have to VX3 models.

I am not law enforcement or military. I grew up on a farm, and have probably shot more rounds than most. I had the advantage to come home from school/sports/work and grab my rifle and go.

I have never been disappointed in Leupold products or the few times I have had to use their CS. For a compact, rugged, hunting optic I think they are in the top tier.

Reading on here about various scopes over the years I wondered how inferior what I had is/was to the competition. After finding and looking through many scopes over the past 3 years, in my opinion, Leupold fairs very well against the competition.

I now have Leupold, Zeiss, Bushnell, and SWFA scopes. The glass in the Leupold and Zeiss are tops.

 

[Longshot38]

I'm not trying to start an argument here, I'm just asking, what "features" are they not offering? This comment keeps popping up, but other than a reference to matching MOA/MOA turrets & reticles, and a couple of others mentioning reticle options (but not specifying what reticles they would like to see), I don't know what features they are lacking. Could someone please enlighten me?

HRF

In terms of reticles I would like to see somthing other then the Horus offerings. I never really cared for them, just to busy for my taste. Rather I would like to see a Leupold designed christmas tree type reticle that is not as busy as the Horus.