I will respectfully disagree with this statement Terry. "They" (US citizens) have recently blindly accepted both considerable mortality and disability to their own families from the form of two manmade bioweapons without much fanfare, so there's that.
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The war in Ukraine and Donbas
- Thread starter Darayavaus
- Start date
I will respectfully disagree with this statement Terry. "They" (US citizens) have recently blindly accepted both considerable mortality and disability to their own families from the form of two manmade bioweapons without much fanfare, so there's that.
Poland sends extra troops to Belarus border – DW – 08/08/2023
Poland is stepping up border security in response to alleged provocations by Belarusian border guards. The presence of the Wagner mercenary group further complicates the situation.www.dw.com
This says 2,000, I read 3,000 elsewhere, so must be closer to 5,000.
So 2 lightbulbs need changing.
Well... hopefully it wont come to blows with Russia or China for our sake, then.
The forever wars and massive spending on the MIC has accomplished the opposite of what it set out to. We're less prepared now than pre-WW1 or WW2. And should go back to economic independence, manufacturing/steel/oil independence, etc.. if we want to truly be best prepared for the fights to come.
I understand your point.
I agree 100% regarding their blind acceptance of governmental direction resulting in risk, injury and death. I would even venture to say those submissive souls would do it all over again in a heartbeat.
However, I will still stand by my original statement as I do not think it is a clear parallel to what we both agree on above.
I think the context and optics of tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of deaths on someone else's soil would result in a different dynamic. True savagery on bodies and minds versus the relative clinical sterility of Covid or Covid Vax deaths.
Modern access to images and unfiltered documentation would prove difficult to contain and re-direct a narrative on.
The first few thousand images showing 3rd degree burns, screaming wounded and videos of PFC Smith vaporized by a cluster munition would drive a two pronged drop in acceptance for the war. One being citizens back home and the other being military members themselves seriously weighing their risk for someone else's perceived gain.
I just think the external stimuli would be entirely different for the public and more difficult for the .gov to make palatable.
Basic behavioral psychology would still prevail.
In the past, we had hard core patriots that included males and females from 7yrs old to 80yrs old. People that would do anything for our flag and our country while fully believing they were justified. I would be in that group. Now, we have to entertain the reality that most pride, patriotism, duty, spirit of teamwork, faith in leadership and willingness to sacrifice has been drastically smothered. The lack of those virtues will have a negative ripple effect if faced with a national war effort.
I suck at typing what I am thinking but think the discussion is worth trying.
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my .02 again. i hear cross above but do disagree. in the 19th and early/mid 20th americans did step up. in korea not so much & less in vietnam. there was a lot of support after 9/11. didn't really last too long. iraq and afganistan of concern mostly to people and familes affected. in a major war likely with china not russia,unless we provoke them with ground forces in eastern europe,damage and deaths will happen here big time. i just don't see any love of or concern for liberty anymore. any war that threatens liberty won't get much support. in the past people were fooled by wilson,roosevelt and johnson. many people that love freedom will and do know that the government is wholy responsible for all the bad outcomes. will prob just hunker down and try to survive. anyone want to die for the WEF.UN,biden,obama,soros,pelosi,clinton and their spawn? not many and the woke military now being built won't hold at all.
Oh yes, the very popular Ukranian navy Amphibious Suicide Ship, or better known as "ASS" for short.
I'd say its a step up from clearing minefields by running over the mines with tanks...
Once you take incoming fire, just put a snorkel on, flip it upside down, and row your way to safety.
I bet ya they have a turret mount rack for the leopards where that kayak thingy sits. Kinda a Ukranian Subaru.
Pole And Russian Hit On Peace Plan For Ukraine
The video of a friendly conversation between a Polish mercenary and a Russian ‘Serega’ from Crimea on the Chat...
southfront.org
"I just need to return their lands back. My President and the Prime Minister said that we should feed them first, and then take their lands back quietly.... We want to separate them so that they will come to us. We can’t take these lands by force. We need to make sure that the economy of Ukraine collapses, so that they themselves say: “there are already so many of us in Poland, 5-10 million.” Then they will understand that there is no choice at all, and that’s it. “We join Poland”. That’s all."
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I am not talking about lend lease.
An Official Journal Of The NRA | Throwback Thursday: Send A Gun to Defend a British Home
Every Thursday we'll share an article from the American Rifleman archives. In 1940, 75 years ago, the British stood alone against Hitler’s war machine. In its plea to assist our friends across the Atlantic Ocean, the American Committee for the Defense of British Homes ran this notice in the...
And the last time the russians had a major tank battle.....1944? Last time the russians had a major military action, soviet afgan war and that ended in the 80's.
Don't sell the "goat herders" short, these people had been fighting Iran for darn near a decade, they had been under fire before and seen combat, they know about the messy business. They defined battle hardened.
What they could not deal with is having no ability to shoot back. Goes to say total air control is something you must have. Why the russians don't do it in Ukraine, don't know. But the only thing I can think of is the same reason we did not bomb the ever living shit out of north vietnam. We learned the lessons of Korea too well, don't want to make the guy on the other side of the border jumpy. We saw how that went in Korea, and that is a lesson that is still being paid for to this day.
Granted the military is not what it was, it has become what it always is under a democrat. This time it is far worse, and that is just what they want.
Check out "The Toyota war". The things they stuck on the back of those little trucks is just nutz. And video of them in action looks like it is out of a Road Runner cartoon, I can so see the ole Coyote in the back of an old toyota pickup
Let me try to restate this.I am not talking about lend lease.
An Official Journal Of The NRA | Throwback Thursday: Send A Gun to Defend a British Home
Every Thursday we'll share an article from the American Rifleman archives. In 1940, 75 years ago, the British stood alone against Hitler’s war machine. In its plea to assist our friends across the Atlantic Ocean, the American Committee for the Defense of British Homes ran this notice in the...www.americanrifleman.org
The confiscated firearms, of today, in this country are being sent to the Ukraine. Prior to our entry into WW2 Congress enacted and FDR signed into law the Lend Lease program which sent weapons of all types to Britain, and later the Soviet Union. Both were actions taken by the government. The difference being the confiscated firearms of today. No weapons were confiscated from US citizens during WWII.
To address the private firearms sent to England; that was on a voluntary basis. Today, firearms are being confiscated from citizens here in the US and then sent to the Ukraine. The difference is voluntary versus non-voluntary confiscation.
I am admittedly ignorant on this topic. Where did you find that the confiscated guns are being sent to Ukraine? That's kind of a big deal.
I think we are just miscommunicating,
The Citizens did willingly give their weapons to another nation, a nation that had disarmed its population. Weapons got "given" to the "citizens" of the UK during WWII when a german invasion seemed likely. These are private arms. Ukraine and the UK in WWII are very different. Personally I doubt that many confiscated firearms are making their way over there unless they happen to shoot a caliber that is available over there already. I do not disagree it is not happening, I am saying it is not the first time public "owned" guns have found their way to a combat area. I have seen pictures of british old men with lever rifles for their "home guard".
People just don't really understand how screwed the british are after they left france. There was nothing left, really nothing. And the british had nothing. So in the spirit of a true democrat FDR gives away something for free. And hands the "gun companies" a blank check from the citizens of the US so england can "borrow" arms. Everything from enfield rifles made by savage (I own one of these, should post up some photos) to destroyers. It does not matter that the UK could "pay" for it, they had enough gold reserves to pay for it, but FDR just handed them the keys to the grocery store and said, take what you want. All a design to get us into that war, just like last time under another democrat pres, and just like what we are seeing now. One reason I am really worried.
Lend Lease has nothing to do with "citizen" arms going over seas, and that was what I was trying to say.
Sorry I could keep babbling on this but going to cut myself short....but in leaving.
If you think the USSR would have won the war without US help, you are really mistaken.....REALLY. It would have folded even with "endless" man power. If it was left to its own, like in WWI the exact same thing would have happened, and our socialist pres (FDR) would not allow that to happen.
Definetly
Scale of amputations in Ukraine reaches WWI level – WSJ
Since the beginning of the Russian military aggression, the number of Ukrainians left without one or more limbs has reached 20-50,000, which is comparable to the scale of amputations during the First World War.
www.pravda.com.ua
Yes I follow that.
Just making out the point that the most effective way of battling tanks and ground vehicles is bombing them from the air. If you have the airpower, which we do to do it.
Really makes me wonder how the F-35 would do in this theater against the Russian armor and artillery. I bet it would clean house. And give the ground pounder room to breathe and advance.
Have a faint idea of what we are capable of, and seeing the way, through proxy, we are fighting this… its ridiculous.
It boils down to two paths. Peace or war. And we need to jump on one of those paths and go down it. Not this bullshit straddling both crap.
It was in this posting, number 1633 in this thread.
The war in Ukraine and Donbas
I aint saying Russia would beat us in a conventional war.. not at all. I think we'd roll them up. But speaking purely in terms of arty- can/could/does Russia outpace and outnumber us in artillery and shell production and deployment/usage? I would like to hear more details about "we'd roll them...
www.snipershide.com
The only answer is peace of course. The obvious official answer... but unfortunately I sense the MIC and DC have something else planned stirring around in whatever tiny clump of cells functions as a brain for these tards..
What does victory over Russia even look like? I'd be impressed at this point if the idiots could even have a singular set of logical achievable goals for the wars they start.
I agree peace. This entire situation should have been avoided.
But still have that part of me that looks down the other path and says, yeah it could get done.
this is true. we mobilized them, allowing them to move forces faster than the Germans after 1943. Without that, they would have been unable to carry out any of the Deep Battle doctrines which won them the war.
the ultimate goal is global hegemony. Unfortunately there is no room for patriotic Russians or even conservative Americans in that world.
One also has to remember survivor basis, undoubtedly a lot for soldiers that died in WW1 could have been saved at the expense of becoming an amputee with modern methods of wound treatment/body armour etc.Definetly
Scale of amputations in Ukraine reaches WWI level – WSJ
Since the beginning of the Russian military aggression, the number of Ukrainians left without one or more limbs has reached 20-50,000, which is comparable to the scale of amputations during the First World War.
We gave them everything, from shoes to blankets to trucks tanks and planes. Their famous Katusha, the rocket launcher on the back of a pickup truck. The trucks they used are made by Studebaker. 99% are on those trucks. But when you look for photos of them in a museum most are soviet trucks. They continue to this day to deny the aid they got. We sent them like 20 million pairs of boots. I think that simple thing tells a very large story.
There is a sea of change. How many among us who thought we were patriotic to the bone, believed a war against anyone our government said was in the name of our Constitutional Republic was a war for everyone to contribute to, now just don't want any part of "their" (no longer "our") wars? It's reflected in the support of the CIC, military recruitment, and can be greatly influenced by whomever that person is in the future, but may not ever come back.
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Stalins organs… carried by US trucks. Russia had practically zero rubber industry.
Some where around 40% of the aviation gas the Russians used was from the US.
The list goes on.
The best guess I can offer, based on past events, is that victory over Russia in THEIR eyes looks like a partitioned and divided area where Russia once was. If you know what to look for in the information domain there are presently subtle hints of this. Not to mention Putin has stated it in the past.
World War II Allies: U.S. Lend-Lease to the Soviet Union, 1941-1945
Even before the United States entered World War II in December 1941, America sent arms and equipment to the Soviet Union to help it defeat the Nazi
ru.usembassy.gov
Reports: Biden to Ask for Another $25 Billion in Ukraine Aid
President Joe Biden will ask for $25 billion in aid for Ukraine, according to multiple reports released this week.
www.breitbart.com
Ukraine project sure is complex hustle for bags of money even Pakistan got regime changed just so Pakistans arms arsenal could be drawn from and bags of cash could flow to the military junta that lost much of the revenue with US exit from Afghanistan.
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Here is an interesting take.
www.paulcraigroberts.org
Putin’s Excessive Caution Is Leading Directly to WW III |
www.paulcraigroberts.org
Ukraine’s Nazi Imagery: It’s ‘Complicated’ ROFL ,
The Times did find someone credentialed to legitimize running cover for Nazis:
Ihor Kozlovskyi, a Ukrainian historian and religious scholar, said that the symbols had meanings that were unique to Ukraine and should be interpreted by how Ukrainians viewed them, not by how they had been used elsewhere.
“The symbol can live in any community or any history independently of how it is used in other parts of Earth.”
The distinction drawn between how Nazi symbols were used in Ukraine as opposed to “other parts of Earth” suggests that Nazism in Ukraine was somehow more benign than in other places.
To the contrary, Ukraine was where the mass slaughter of Jews was pioneered, with an estimated 1.5 million people killed there, or one in every four Jewish victims of the Holocaust. These killings were largely carried out by Ukrainian nationalist militias; survivors of these units that participated in the Holocaust were granted veteran status by Ukraine in 2019, making them eligible for government benefits (Kyiv Post, 3/26/19).
Another on sliped trough,even tough Western press asks AFU to remove NAZI insignias for the interviews.
The Times did find someone credentialed to legitimize running cover for Nazis:
Ihor Kozlovskyi, a Ukrainian historian and religious scholar, said that the symbols had meanings that were unique to Ukraine and should be interpreted by how Ukrainians viewed them, not by how they had been used elsewhere.
“The symbol can live in any community or any history independently of how it is used in other parts of Earth.”
The distinction drawn between how Nazi symbols were used in Ukraine as opposed to “other parts of Earth” suggests that Nazism in Ukraine was somehow more benign than in other places.
To the contrary, Ukraine was where the mass slaughter of Jews was pioneered, with an estimated 1.5 million people killed there, or one in every four Jewish victims of the Holocaust. These killings were largely carried out by Ukrainian nationalist militias; survivors of these units that participated in the Holocaust were granted veteran status by Ukraine in 2019, making them eligible for government benefits (Kyiv Post, 3/26/19).
Another on sliped trough,even tough Western press asks AFU to remove NAZI insignias for the interviews.
Do you think Poland has the capacity at present to do what he thinks they are going to do in western Ukraine?Here is an interesting take.
Putin’s Excessive Caution Is Leading Directly to WW III |
incrementalism was a disaster in vietnam. don't know whether us in korea and russians in afganistan would qualify but results in both were not good.
If I may, they are definitely stocking up on hardware. Just increased their AH-64 purchase to around 100 units. 250 Abrams tanks.
One opinion on the Apache purchase.
It's no secret that our state department is goading Poland into doing what the Ukranians have not been able to do. Why the meetings with Blinken and Newland with Polish officials? One could surmise its sugar and the whip, on one side they will scare Poland into more intervention by convincing them that Russia unhindered will move all the way to the Polish border. But if Poland fights right now then Poland possibly shares in the wealth of agriculture and natural gas all the way to the Denepir, that's if they can keep the Russians relegated to the Donbas region. Either way Russia will never trust the West again in any sort of truce or pact. This conflict has assured that Russia unless collapsed internally will remain the world's second most powerful military, and one that is trained in modern all out warfare against a near peer adversary, something we have not done since WW2.
They are, a year or so ago I read that they were going to significantly upgrade their military. I think it was the YouTube channel Covert Cabal that stated Poland was on track to be have the largest land force in Europe.
That said, Western Ukraine is a large place and the undertaking the author talks about would be significant.
These ones stopped paying their fair share back to the clown, so clown needs new ones...
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