European support for Ukraine aid is plummeting
Just 24 percent of EU citizens "totally agree" with providing Ukraine with money for weapons, according to a new poll.
www.newsweek.com
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The war in Ukraine and Donbas
- Thread starter Darayavaus
- Start date
www.newsweek.com
Not really but it wasn’t as bad as now.
If this was true Smedley Butler would be known to everyone not just Marines and mil geeks.
Hey, something we agree on.....who would of thunk it.....
As you call people that may or may not be assholes....."asshole". Weird how insults work, huh?
I dont think youre a Nazi, just an internet crybaby asshole. But not really, becuase I dont know you.
Every single person on this forum probably has a lot in common and would probably get along just fine in real life, but here we are, just hiding behind screen names, hurling insults!
Some of you might be calling your idols insults and wouldnt even know it.
But Doc....he's for sure a freakin' Nazi! You can tell by the "Heil Hitler" in his voice.
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or the fact that he's calling Slavs "subhuman" while defending the Ubermensch SS.
ANY aid given to Ukraine aside from helping them negotiate a ceasefire or peace treaty is tarded and goes against natural human decency prolonging a fckn nonsensical bloodbath.European support for Ukraine aid is plummeting
Just 24 percent of EU citizens "totally agree" with providing Ukraine with money for weapons, according to a new poll.
The poor bastards on the front suffer and die in agony... the elites and politicos profit with no repercussions or even any skin in the game really...
Obviously abhors R&D on human test platforms.
Do you know how flawed US ballistic testing was using pig cadavers?
Zelenskys greatest gift to weapon technology is his people.
the globalists are using Russians and Ukrainians as test subjects because they consider them to be subhuman (White Christians). Biolabs, weapons development, and organ harvesting afterwards.
It's Dr Mengele or Unit 731 all over again.
I wonder when the Ukrainians will just kill their government and end all this instead of putting up with this bullshit.
We are funding/paying/supporting the only citizenry/people capable of such an effort, so until that stops, such a movement is never going to happen.
right there with the pot calling the kettle black when the leftists refer to anyone else as 'fascists.'
Tell me you don't know the definition of fascism without telling me you don't know the definition.
If there's one party that defines fascism, it's the democrats.
M
Yikes…this map is very telling. Looks like those Azos boys aren’t faring too well with their summer offensive.
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A defense in depth with time to prepare is a deliberate process the Russian armed forces seem quite good at. US military leaders know this very well. Wars are what they do, and one that doesn’t kill Americans has no negatives from their point of view. The NWO is trying to bankrupt the west, but generals just want to play with their toys and ignore the rest.
One thing required to defeat a deliberate defense in depth is air superiority and Ukraine definitely does not have that. A combined arms breach and breakthrough/breakout is an extremely difficult and complicated mission which very few modern armies can achieve.
Yup. It requires many times more investment, organization, and capabilities to overcome than it does to defend. Random meat bags with rifles waving tribal flags are not the solution.
Zelensky Hosts Major Arms Manufacturers Conference in Hopes to Boost Domestic Weapons Production
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/20...n-hopes-to-boost-domestic-weapons-production/
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/20...n-hopes-to-boost-domestic-weapons-production/
Canadian Forces org has reached peak tokenism and is sinking into abject failure.
Well, the US has just passed a funding bill with no aid to Ukraine in it, so that is good, I guess.
His fake dick fell off again and last seen he was chasing it down the road.
Entry from the north: How the Ukrainian Armed Forces decided to take Artyomovsk and what awaits them there
What is happening in the Artyomovsky direction and on the Rabotino-Verbovoe section in the Zaporozhye region.September 29, 18:40
Why won’t the Ukrainian Armed Forces be able to take Artyomovsk and two other cities? Cover © Getty Images / Marin / Anadolu Agency
The task of taking Artyomovsk and two other cities, set by the head of the Kyiv regime, was announced after negotiations in the US Congress and the White House. Military experts believe that we are talking about Tokmak and Melitopol. “The counter-offensive of Ukrainian troops will continue in the fall and winter,” said Vladimir Zelensky. After a week of regular bloody battles, where the Ukrainian Armed Forces suffered heavy losses, the idea of new “meat” assaults became clear. The Ukrainian leadership tried to enter from the north, attacking the heights and moving in parallel from the Soledar and Artyomovsk directions. But if the assault fizzled out near Soledar, then near Artyomovsk and Zaporozhye it continues.
Fierce fighting in the Soledar direction lasted five days. Now the forces of the Ukrainian Armed Forces are regrouping, experts believe. Probably, the Ukrainian command is looking for loopholes in the defense of the Russian Armed Forces in order to continue the offensive. The activity of Ukrainian formations is noticeable in the Artyomovsk direction. During the week, 31 attacks by the Ukrainian Armed Forces were repulsed in the Donetsk region, according to reports from the Russian Ministry of Defense.
What's happening in the Artyomovsky direction
The Ukrainian Armed Forces tried to storm west of the village of Kleshcheevka, but the attack was suppressed. As a result, Russian forces destroyed armored vehicles and several personnel. Over the past three weeks, the enemy has been trying to break through the defenses around this village. In the current 24 hours alone, the Russian Armed Forces have carried out strikes on concentrations of militants in the areas of the settlements of Minkovka, Grigorovka, Ivanovskoye and Dyleevka.— In Andreevka there are oncoming battles for the heights. Now 1,300 Wagner troops have been transferred there and became part of the Russian Armed Forces. They stabilized the situation. The enemy is unlikely to be able to advance further. Perhaps we will recapture a number of heights that were in the hands of the Ukrainian army, ” notes military expert Yuri Knutov. — Thus, the difficult situation near Artyomovsk has been resolved.
A Wagner PMC fighter in a house damaged as a result of shelling in Artyomovsk. Photo © TASS / Valentin Sprinchak
The expert also believes that the Ukrainian Armed Forces will try to increase reserves in the Artyomovsky, Orekhovsky and Ugledarsky directions - at the junction of the Zaporozhye and Donetsk regions.
What is happening on the Rabotino – Verbovoe section in Zaporozhye
Another difficult section is the Rabotino-Verbovoe direction in Zaporozhye, military correspondents report from the field. The goal of the Ukrainian Armed Forces is to break through directly to Tokmak, and then towards Melitopol. For more than a hundred days, attempts by Ukrainian formations to gain a foothold in the Rabotino-Verbovoe section have been frustrated due to heavy losses. Now three elite brigades are concentrated there: the 47th Mechanized Infantry Brigade "Magura", the 46th Airmobile Brigade and the reserves - units of the 82nd Separate Airborne Brigade.
For more than 100 days, attempts by Ukrainian forces to gain a foothold in the Rabotino-Verbovoe section have been thwarted due to heavy losses. Photo © Getty Images / Ignacio Marin / Anadolu Agency
Several new formations also continue to operate: the 116th, 117th and 118th mechanized brigades. Since these forces were not prepared for joint action, and the new arrivals do not have proper communications and do not know the terrain, they are likely to create problems for each other. The main issue - coordination - is missing here. Therefore, military experts no longer call this area of fighting anything other than a killing zone.
The enemy will try to expand the line between Rabotin and Verbov, and then attack the flank of the Russian Armed Forces. The efforts of the Ukrainian artillery and the clearing of minefields near Verbove are aimed at this. The left flank of Ukrainian militants is preparing for a serious attack near Novoprokopovka.
Under artillery fire and during rifle battles in the Rabotino-Verbovoe sector, the vast majority of the Ukrainian infantry died. The military correspondents' reports contain information that a significant number of captured Ukrainian military personnel are men 40–50 years old.
| 09.29.2023 Latest reports from Ukraine: “Slaughter zone” Rabotino-Verbovoye. APU FIRE BAG. Combat map (14 videos) |
| [Home] › [War in Ukraine] › 09/29/2023 Latest reports from Ukraine: “Slaughter zone” Rabotino-Verbovoye. APU FIRE BAG. Combat map (14 videos) |
What is happening in the area of Rabotin and Verbovoy at the moment? After 116 days of offensive, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have not approached the main defensive lines. All fighting, as in June, is concentrated around the forward security zone. Attempts by the Ukrainian army to gain a foothold in Pyatikhatki and in the Rabotino-Verbovoye sector are regularly frustrated due to heavy losses, as well as difficulties in managing and supporting the group. Why can’t the Ukrainian Armed Forces gain a foothold in the Rabotino-Verbovoye section? One of the main negative factors affecting the pace of the Ukrainian Armed Forces’ offensive is the crowding of six to seven brigade elements in a relatively small space, not counting individual battalions and auxiliary units. At the moment, at least three elite brigades are concentrated in the Rabotino-Verbovoye section: the 47th Mechanized Infantry Brigade "Magura", the 46th Airmobile Brigade and reserves - units of the 82nd Specialized Airborne Brigade. Three formations of the new formation operate in the same area: the 116th, 117th and 118th mechanized brigades, with the latter serving as a source of infantry for “meat assaults”. Due to high losses, armored vehicles and aircraft of the Ukrainian Armed Forces are used to a limited extent in this area. These formations have not been trained for joint action, and the reinforcements they receive usually do not know the terrain and have problems with communication and coordination. As a result of overcrowding and management problems, Ukrainian formations are more likely to interfere with each other than to advance in a coordinated manner. Why did this happen? As a result of continuous attacks over 3.5 months, the Ukrainian Armed Forces managed to make slight progress towards Rabotin and Verbovoy. Although Ukrainian propaganda presents this as a strategic achievement, in fact Ukrainian troops are in a fire pocket and fighting in a semi-encirclement in a limited area. The Rabotinsko-Verbovsky fire bag, which the military among themselves call the “kill zone,” is visible and shot through by Russian artillery from three sides, which leads to continuous high losses in people and equipment for the Ukrainian Armed Forces. (Military chronicle TG) |
Why did Ukraine Offensive fail?
Because even I "knew" about the "Counter Offensive"
1st rule of war: Don't tell your opponent what you are doing!
"Hey Russia, we about to go all counter offensive on you and win!!!!"
<Challenge Accepted>
Because even I "knew" about the "Counter Offensive"
1st rule of war: Don't tell your opponent what you are doing!
"Hey Russia, we about to go all counter offensive on you and win!!!!"
<Challenge Accepted>
You don’t reckon it has anything to do with the defensive lines Russia built, or the fact that the Ukes are for the most part untrained conscripts, have virtually zero air defense, have had billions of aid stolen and have been donated ineffective gear?
The Uke offensive was more of a marketing move to get more funding than anything. It was called long before it started that it would fail. Ukraine is simply not equipped to win this. Why people refuse to see this is beyond me. This isn’t a pro-Russia or pro-Ukraine statement, it’s just the facts.
Looks like the Russians mined their front lines and waited for the "offensive". Once it started the Russians started falling back and the uke's thought they were kicking ass. They ran into the mine fields and the artillery started raining down. Big fucking ooops. The fact that the ukes continue to repeat it?
Man you guys are sensitive.
There are countless examples of an inferior force defeating a superior force. However, the few examples of when you telegraph you moves to the enemy and are successful almost always are accompanied by vastly superior force attacking an isolated one.
So, in the "lets pretend for a day" I get to be supreme overlord of Ukraine. I am out resourced by my opponent and running low on supplies. I have some momentum in that I have blunted the enemies attacks. So what do I do?
I announce I am going to Counter Attack for several months. And then do exactly what I say....
Worst. Strategy. Ever.
And no doubt it was a ploy for funds or support or whatever. But to actually go through with it was beyond shockingly stupid. We all expected Ukraine to fold rather fast. Russia's military has been exposed for not being the juggernaut we thought it might be. That doesn't mean Ukraine is some super force of Israeli commandos. And even in the long haul, Russia can just out-siege them.
I was just pointing out that every armchair general in the world was not surprised at this latest development.
We have the same point, I just didn't give the Russians "credit" I guess. I mean if your enemy is going to shoot himself in the foot, go ahead and let him...so uh "good job"
<rolls eyes>
I can agree with most of this. The thing we don't agree on is the Russians being incompetent, although I will agree that the initial actions by them appear to have been way less that effective; to not regard them as a peer is what got us to where we are - the length of time that this conflict has gone on has given them real time to mobilize both their manufacturing and economic trade to address their weaknesses. It has also given them the same thing we have received - the ability to test weapons systems, acquire the assets of the opposition, reverse engineer and develop countermeasures. Where Russia is different than NATO is that they have mobilized far quicker for the next stage of this nightmare.
While the war in Ukraine has yielded nothing for Ukraine, it has created a situation where we have a new cold war and emergent trade union that will produce severe headwinds for the US and NATO for the foreseeable future and is beginning to reduce the influence of the US and the US dollar hegemony. To overlook these impacts would be myopic, foolish and prideful to the point of being potentially fatal.
At some point one would think that someone in power would realize that Russia is slow walking this conflict intentionally to gear up for a far larger war they know is coming. This gearing up involves their manufacturing base, R&D, training of soldiers based on recent combat experience, economic trade and political alliances, all while just grinding Ukraine into dust and depleting the NATO weapons stores so that any battle with Russia and its allies will be hamstrung by supply issues. It doesn't take a mental heavyweight to see what is occurring, but here we are, and it appears that NATO is in a lose-lose situation - if Ukraine loses, NATO by and large will be defanged; if NATO and Ukraine go to the negotiation table and stop the conflict then influence on the world stage is permanently lost. I would argue that this loss of influence is already baked into the cake because of the extra juice BRICS has been given because of this conflict, and as an entity BRICS has a lot of the resources the world needs to either continue to grow economically or wage war. It's a dangerous thing to underestimate an enemy, but it is a completely different thing to cause multiple countries to band together economically and ultimately militarily.
What I am saying is that this conflict extends well beyond Ukraine and the follow-on impacts are substantial. It all came about through not regarding Russia as serious on multiple levels, and it appears that at this point there is no way out of the consequences. The world is about to suffer greatly for the stupidity on all sides.
Where did I say they were incompetent (aside from trolling the hell out of the pro-Russia faction)? I said they were not a juggernaut...
I'd argue Russia has lost a lot of standing with its under performance as well as pushed Sweden and Finland into NATO. However that does create more instability as Russia will not look on that development as a positive. The longer Putin maintains the war, it is good for him, but eventually I think Russian people may get fed up and he may lose his grip on power. Possibly wishful thinking, but every Russian victory encourages him.
I don't think the situation for NATO is as bad as you say, but it has exposed some glaring weaknesses, especially in supply chain, so I am not dismissing all your claims. Overall I think its lose-lose all around--no one comes out stronger at the end of this, except maybe Putin can keep his hold on power. I know his grip on the country is pretty tight and rivals always end up poisoned or shot or crashed. But the propaganda only goes so far when your sons and daughters are dying. He has to keep his losses low, while Ukraine can fall back on "defense of the homeland" and suffer disproportionately large losses. I think this has even put cracks in the Russia-China relationship (that's good), but it certainly isn't worth the cost and Joe's econ policies are just filling up Russia's bank from Oil reserves. (And we send more money to fight it!)
Interesting article regarding the territory gained and why Russia isn't moving forward.
One Map Summarizes Status Of Ukraine War & Russia's Strategy | ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zerowww.zerohedge.com
The war essentially ended once Ukraine got the West Bank of the Dneiper. That's when the West should have sued for peace.
Terrain and Manpower favored Russia from then on. Any competent student of military operations should have told the West that.
Russia has decentralized its shit, tightened up its opec, and built defense in depth, and it's now a grind. It's all logistics now. Russia won't win all Ukraine now, but it won't lose, either.
It takes intelligent commanders and the will to win.
I don't think the Taliban had anywhere near the quality of solider as the US. They just wanted it more. I don't think they had any good strategists. They just refused to quit. Being stubborn can be an asset. Going back to even the American Revolution: Our Army was laughable compared to the British, but Washington just refused to quit.
Also North Vietnamese. They had some good commanders, but their troops were no where near our troops. I think their best troops may have been equal to the average US Soliders if we are generous in terms of skill.
But it terms of will to fight? That's the key. That's why I think the longer run may (MAY) favor Ukraine because they may have more will to fight than the Russians. But if they become disillusioned, no amount of training or gear is gonna save them.
Hadji, Omir, Mohammed, and Ali Bin BobKnob had decades of digging in deep.
They started it even before the Russkies in the 70-80's timeline.
When you have huge ass caves to hide in it makes it hard for any opponent to overcome you.
Same goes for the Viet congers.
Remember the "Tunnel Rats" ?
They started it even before the Russkies in the 70-80's timeline.
When you have huge ass caves to hide in it makes it hard for any opponent to overcome you.
Same goes for the Viet congers.
Remember the "Tunnel Rats" ?
Tarawa was supposed to hold out for 100 years or something. Peilelu, Iwo Jima? Well prepared defense in depth.
That (Tarawa) took all of 3 days. And yeah we had to kill every last one of the Japanese on the Island to do it. Defenses can be overcome. But you have to commit, and if your opponent wants to fight to the death, you have to be willing to do it: cave by cave, hole by hole, pillbox by pillbox. Because they have....
And those Japanese troops were as fanatical as any Taliban or PVAN. Not sure what point you are making anyway.
That (Tarawa) took all of 3 days. And yeah we had to kill every last one of the Japanese on the Island to do it. Defenses can be overcome. But you have to commit, and if your opponent wants to fight to the death, you have to be willing to do it: cave by cave, hole by hole, pillbox by pillbox. Because they have....
And those Japanese troops were as fanatical as any Taliban or PVAN. Not sure what point you are making anyway.
They refused to engage after a few years and then waited us out. When Biden cut the log trails to the Afghans, it was going to be hard to fight them.
We should have blocked the passes into Pakistan early on during the initial invasion, caught OBL, then left some ODAs and held on to Bagram in 2002 and moved on. Instead we got distracted by Iraq and no one in the US military told the presidents otherwise.
Wars come down to terrain, manpower, and logistics. Most of Ukraine's future manpower is no longer in country. Ukraine is far smaller than Russia. And the terrain favors the defense. And dead men have no will power.
Here is an example of what I mean by economic and military alliances of BRICS. The supply chain exposure risk has begun to be realized. China doesn't have to get kinetically involved, they only have to control the material or show favoritism to those within the bloc.
How China Cut Off One of Ukraine's Most Important Weapons
yielded nothing for Ukraine and nothing for American citizens.
If this was being done for some valid reason - ie, the war of 1812 with our sailors getting kidnapped by a hostile foreign power - then it would be justifiable. But Russians are not a natural enemy of the US. China is more of an enemy than Russia. Yet our MIC demands the Russia narrative in order to continue feeding itself. They NEED a boogeyman in order to keep the dollars rolling in.....or else they would cease to exist.
And of course, the MIC's need to consume our money and enrich themselves goes hand in hand with the Jacobin Trotskyist Neocons and their obsession with world domination. But none of it. none of it. benefits the average American citizen who pays for it. We were more prosperous before government became an insatiable monster. We are not better off now.
the diatribe now - 'protecting democracy in Ukraine!' is as asinine as Wilson and "making the world safe for democracy!" in WW1. bullshit.
Ukraine has suspended their already corrupt, manipulated elections and make Zelensky a president for life for the foreseeable future. what F'ing democracy!
if people cared about the American Republic as much as they harp on about Ukrainian democracy, maybe we could set things right again in our own country.
Ukraine has suspended their already corrupt, manipulated elections and make Zelensky a president for life for the foreseeable future. what F'ing democracy!
if people cared about the American Republic as much as they harp on about Ukrainian democracy, maybe we could set things right again in our own country.
Leaked U.S. strategy on Ukraine sees corruption as the real threat
A report obtained by POLITICO details specific plans to reform Ukrainian institutions and warns Western support may hinge on cutting corruption.
www.politico.com
Wait a minute… I thought Joe Biden cleaned up corruption in Ukraine when he had Victor Shokin fired back in 2016?
Corruption in Ukraine means the “Big Guy” payments & DNC PAC payments must not be up to expectations.
It's a cluster fuck that we should know better than to be involved with it, but here we are.
https://www.securitywomen.org/post/...nscripted-as-the-country-faces-russian-forces
Ok, now they are affecting Ukrainian brides pool. This shit has to stop now!
Ok, now they are affecting Ukrainian brides pool. This shit has to stop now!
i think this is more for sympathy than seriously putting women into combat roles, but i can see them running out of cooks and such.
This has been known for almost two months or more. They are even conscripting the mentally challenged for cannon fodder. Videos are showing them getting orders and passing medical exams. There is almost nobody left in Ukraine to fight. They are dead, are one of the few in reserve, in training in another country or have fled to avoid the war. Everyone needs to stop scrolling CNN; the situation is vastly worse than they are showing.
Senator Hawley on Ukraine Briefing
Senator Josh Hawley (R-MO) spoke with reporters following a closed door Senate briefing on the war and situation in Ukraine.
www.c-span.org
Exactly, thank you! China steals our technology IP, military and civil. China floods our institutions with bribery cash, and they fund progressive organizations in our academia, and NGOs for the purpose of creating ideological turmoil. China provides 100% of the substrate chemicals the cartels use in creating the deadly fentanyl epidemic. In 2022 over one hundred thousand Americans died from street grade fentanyl, murder anyone? At every angle China erodes and undermines our country. Is it worth it to even bring up the Wuhan COVID lab leak which lead to the entire world shutting down?
China learned many of these fifth generation war techniques from the British, when China endured the century of humiliation under British rule, however they have aimed their animus and revenge at the very country that has made them wealthy. Chinas hatred for America is not just misplaced but disgustingly ungrateful.
And yet here we are, thirty years since the fall of the Soviet Union and we can't get it out of our tiny little brains... "Russia...Russia...Russia!" talk about misplaced animus.
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