Re: Thoughts: REPR vs POF vs other AR-10
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TriggerHappy44</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fd-defense</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I offer a similar piston platform, but with significant design, style, and quality enhancements. The FD308 is designed specifically for use with a suppressor (barrel length/contour, port position, and infinite gas adjustment) but also operates nicely without. I put a lot more hours and cost into the rifles than do other "high-end" manufacturers and it appears that the wait time is now much shorter than theirs.... 6 months.
I am using Bartlein barrels this next run with a slightly increased contour, so we will see what the statistical MOA squeezes down to. I am hoping the average printing will fall between .5-.75 MOA; my previous Lilja barrels were averaging between .7-1.0 MOA with a few outliers below and above (and without pursuing in-depth set-up and ammo/load selection). The FD308 design reduces these averages by about 15% when employing a suppressor and tuning the gas system (i.e. the barrel harmonics are settled). </div></div>
You sold me. I've never considered getting a long range rifle with a suppressor, but considering yours is specifically designed for it, I'd like to know more. I'd be interested in getting the best FD-308 you make. I'm upgrading my SR-25 with a 22" Bartlein barrel which seems to be the same you're using. Do you ever use Krieger or Broughton or is Bartlein the renowned leader in AR-10 format rifles. </div></div>
I had Kriegers on my prototypes and they shot well, they are just too long on their lead times... 6 months plus. I cant work with that. The Bartlein guys used to work at Krieger and were probably a good portion of the real manufacturing talent. After having lengthy discussions with Krieger's test barrel engineer, I am not convinced that they truly know what they are doing. He could not explain to me the difference between annealed and tempered or stressed relieved steel, and whether the barrel they made for me were heat treated properly or not; just a response of: "if you don't like it, send them back". So that was a confirmation that I would not be doing further business with them.
Personally, and from an engineering perspective, I don't think the maker of the blank has but about 30% to do with the end rifle's accuracy capability. While over 50% has to do with who is doing the finish-work and chambering, and if they are setting it up the correct way or the "quick and easy" way.
Much will have to do with sticking components in the cyclic system, i.e. inconsistent recoiling; the rest will be acquiring the correct pressure cartridge that matches what your particular barrel likes. Bartein #52 might like 42.4 grains, while Bartlein #53 might like 43.8 grains. Most intermediate and many advanced shooters don't understand why this is true even when the barrels seem to be "exactly" the same. Mostly because the bore diameter is never exactly the same, varies by .0002" or more; which can cause up to a 5% difference in pressure.
These numerous variables cannot be sorted out by a manufacturer without thousands of dollars of time being spent with each rifle. While theoretically I can build every rifle to shoot .25 MOA, it is not economically practical. And load data will change with time (as the barrel wears) and seasonally with temperature.
Hell, I assembled the last batch of rifles down here in Texas one day in December and it was 74 degrees; then shipped off to Montana the next day where is was negative 10 degrees. There is no way to know what load that rifle will like under the end user's conditions.
For these reasons, the .75-1.0 MOA guarantee is really the best anyone can do for an auto-loader.
Out-of-the-box accuracy truly is more a matter of chance and luck. You should spend quite a bit of time experimenting with loads and settings to accomplish your desired results, and that is why I have incorporated an infinitely adjustable gas system, among other features not found on other rifles.
