Trump's Steel and Aluminum Tariff Proposal

[pmclaine]

You don't need to be pretty sure, if you go back and read the thread. The info has been posted, the real info, not "I think bull shit info." Save the "I think" for opinions.


Where did you copy and paste that from? Or are you the one who talked to the "whitehouse insider"? Didn't all those tards speculate that we would not loose American jobs due to free trade agreements? So their speculation is spotty at best correct?

Latest report is that 2% is incorrect.

The 2% only includes steel direct from China.

China also has a scheme whereby they sell steel to other countries for middleman transport to the USA so that the import number is deflated.

Shocker Chinese cheating on trade....

Whats next they steal our intellectual property?

Huh what?

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...of_steel_comes_from_china_trans-shipping.html

 

[Rthur]

Latest report is that 2% is incorrect.

The 2% only includes steel direct from China.

China also has a scheme whereby they sell steel to other countries for middleman transport to the USA so that the import number is deflated.

Shocker Chinese cheating on trade....

Whats next they steal our intellectual property?

Huh what?

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...of_steel_comes_from_china_trans-shipping.html

As far as China is concerned steel is just part of the larger problem. These trade agreements are the equivalent of tying one arm and leg behind our backs. The exodus of material and labor industry is the net effect. Where are all the jobs my/our fathers had a chance at now?...
The current version cannot be sustained. Without blue collar jobs who's going to buy all the cheap shit imported?

R

 

[kthomas]

At the end of the day, it's the consumers that are going to be hit hardest by these trade wars. The increased price of business will be passed on to the customer.

 

[supercorndogs]

At the end of the day, it's the consumers that are going to be hit hardest by these trade wars. The increased price of business will be passed on to the customer.

At the end of the day we were already hit by a loss of jobs due to an un-even playing field for the American worker. We either both need to pay the same wage to workers, or tax their imported goods until they cost what ours do, to give reasons to manufacture here.

 

[Rthur]

Interesting article:
http://www.breitbart.com/economics/...-plant-trump-announces-tariffs-foreign-steel/

R

 

[pmclaine]

At the end of the day, it's the consumers that are going to be hit hardest by these trade wars. The increased price of business will be passed on to the customer.

You pay now at the cash register or you pay more in taxes as more and more of the population is forced into welfare through having their jobs offshored.

Who is more compassionate the person in worry trying to save someones job or the guy worried he wont be able to buy cheap junk at Walmart?

 

[W54/XM-388]

Well apparently the Leftist, democrat supporting "technocrats" fully plan to try to get rid of as many jobs as possible so they can control everything and so they openly talk about upping taxes so that everybody can be given a "guaranteed income".... basically a pittance to buy food to keep the unemployed masses from starting wholesale slaughter of the technocrats.

 

[pmclaine]

Well apparently the Leftist, democrat supporting "technocrats" fully plan to try to get rid of as many jobs as possible so they can control everything and so they openly talk about upping taxes so that everybody can be given a "guaranteed income".... basically a pittance to buy food to keep the unemployed masses from starting wholesale slaughter of the technocrats.

If something is given it has no worth.

A guaranteed income increases inflation to the economy by whatever amount of guaranteed income is provided.

If someone walks into my store with $10 that was taken from me to provide him the $10, whatever price is on my product immediately adjusts up by $10.

How these fucktards dont see that is beyond me........unless they also price control everything which is..........Communism?

 

[Jeffd]

Jethro - This is exactly the point we have tried to make all along during this discussion!

Trump promised to champion forgotten Americans, but imposing a 25 percent tariff on steel and a 10 percent tariff on aluminum will hurt more of the forgotten Americans than it helps. The American steel industry employs about 140,000 people, while steel-consuming industries employ 6.5 million. This means Trump is imposing a tax -- tariffs are taxes -- that will hurt the 6.5 million in order to help the 140,000.

During the campaign, Trump promised to make the auto industry in states such as Ohio, Michigan and Pennsylvania "bigger and better and stronger than ever before." But raising taxes, and thus prices, on steel and aluminum will hurt those states' automobile workers, whose jobs depend on steel and aluminum. According to one independent study, the 2002 steel tariffs imposed by President George W. Bush cost 200,000 jobs because of higher steel prices, including 10,553 jobs lost in Ohio, 9,829 lost in Michigan and 8,400 in Pennsylvania. Total lost wages were about $5.5 billion in today's dollars.

Yes, Trump assured voters he would protect the steel and aluminum industries. But he also promised to revive our automobile industry, keep manufacturing jobs from leaving America, rebuild our crumbling infrastructure, unleash a new era of energy independence and restore our military strength. His proposed tariffs undermine all of those promises. They will hurt many of the very people Trump came to Washington to help. Fortunately, the president can still decide not to go ahead with the tariffs. For the sake of the forgotten Americans, let's hope he chooses wisely.

 

[Jeffd]

Did we learn nothing from what happened when President George W. Bush raised steel tariffs? The trade barriers protected 1,000 jobs. But they destroyed 200,000 other jobs. Bush wisely withdrew the tariffs.
Trade only happens when both sides think they are better off for making the trade. Win-win, or it doesn't happen. Trade is always good because it is voluntary.
Adam Smith figured that out more than 200 years ago.
But when Trump thinks about trade, he just sees downsides. "Before NAFTA (lowered trade barriers), there were 285,000 autoworkers in Michigan," he says. "Today, that number is only 160,000!"
Trump is right about the jobs numbers. But autoworker jobs disappeared because of automation, not trade. Robots replaced some workers.
But thanks to trade, most of those workers found other, often superior, jobs. Total American sales of cars and car parts are up.
It's shortsighted to look at costs or trade without acknowledging the even larger benefits.

 

[Jeffd]

Interesting article:
http://www.breitbart.com/economics/...-plant-trump-announces-tariffs-foreign-steel/

R

Interesting indeed. 500 workers at the expense of 5 million others in manufacturing and if you add the consumers 320 million. Brilliant idea Mr. President. Ask Bush SR. how that worked out for him!

 

[Rthur]

Interesting indeed. 500 workers at the expense of 5 million others in manufacturing and if you add the consumers 320 million. Brilliant idea Mr. President. Ask Bush SR. how that worked out for him!

I'm actually thinking of these folks and would like your industry to not suffer the same fate.
The American Coal worker:

R

 

[pmclaine]

Did we learn nothing from what happened when President George W. Bush raised steel tariffs? The trade barriers protected 1,000 jobs. But they destroyed 200,000 other jobs. Bush wisely withdrew the tariffs.
Trade only happens when both sides think they are better off for making the trade. Win-win, or it doesn't happen. Trade is always good because it is voluntary.
Adam Smith figured that out more than 200 years ago.
But when Trump thinks about trade, he just sees downsides. "Before NAFTA (lowered trade barriers), there were 285,000 autoworkers in Michigan," he says. "Today, that number is only 160,000!"
Trump is right about the jobs numbers. But autoworker jobs disappeared because of automation, not trade. Robots replaced some workers.
But thanks to trade, most of those workers found other, often superior, jobs. Total American sales of cars and car parts are up.
It's shortsighted to look at costs or trade without acknowledging the even larger benefits.

Adam Smiths invisible hand assumes equality of all factors.

If China allowed the market to conduct its influence on its operations their steel would be more expensive to produce and they would not be able to overproduce and sustain the loss with getting slapped by the invisible hand.

They have chosen a Strategic policy to subsidize and over produce.

Why they would do so is for you to decide. I have my own ideas.

 

[Jeffd]

I'm actually thinking of these folks and would like your industry to not suffer the same fate.
The American Coal worker:
View attachment 6881741

R

Apples to Oranges Sir.

 

[supercorndogs]

Did we learn nothing from what happened when President George W. Bush raised steel tariffs? The trade barriers protected 1,000 jobs. But they destroyed 200,000 other jobs. Bush wisely withdrew the tariffs.
Trade only happens when both sides think they are better off for making the trade. Win-win, or it doesn't happen. Trade is always good because it is voluntary.
Adam Smith figured that out more than 200 years ago.
But when Trump thinks about trade, he just sees downsides. "Before NAFTA (lowered trade barriers), there were 285,000 autoworkers in Michigan," he says. "Today, that number is only 160,000!"
Trump is right about the jobs numbers. But autoworker jobs disappeared because of automation, not trade. Robots replaced some workers.
But thanks to trade, most of those workers found other, often superior, jobs. Total American sales of cars and car parts are up.
It's shortsighted to look at costs or trade without acknowledging the even larger benefits.

Bullshit, all my car parts say Encho en Mexico after NAFTA. They are crap also compared to the American made parts before that. The bus plant that was in my town moved to Mexico. The loss of jobs is two fold because those factories would have expanded to keep up with demand.

I would like you to explain, how know the jobs they got were, "often superior." Because the story I have been told is, most of them went on welfare and their cities descended into crime ridden, dilapidating, welfare traps, but you can buy a fake gucci bag, or atlas bipod from china for quarter. So yea that model they brought us is great, if you can't see past the end of your nose. Cheaper products are not better for us all, if we keep having to subsidize more people because more jobs go over seas.

I hate to break it to you but the trade war has been going for a long time, go look through Ebay and Amazon. They aren't making and shipping that cheap for no reason.

 

[Jethro3898]

Tariff signed.
Canada and Mexico exempt (for now).

If we are going to have a tariff on steel, I'm glad the President went this direction.....simply as a way to soften the impact. At least it limits/lessens the blow to many of the industries that are so dependent upon steel pricing. It seems to be a decent compromise from my limited understanding of economics. Like I've said before, if we're gonna do it, let's ease into it. No one will benefit from a sledgehammer tariff.

Supposedly the president is going to revisit NAFTA with Mexico and Canada in the near future.

Within 1.5 hours I received an email from Vulcraft (a joist/deck division of Nucor) stating that they were still going to hold pricing for 30 days and hold pricing for 16 weeks after award/PO. In my eyes, taking Mexico and Canada out of the tariff (again, for the time being) was a kick through the uprights for the administration, politically speaking.

 

[njohn890]

How about no tariffs at all?????

Keep this in mind, a Harley Davidson sells for 30 - 35 % more across the border in Toronto vs Buffalo, same with every American made product in Canada, and Mexico. This is not free trade. Time to hit back and hit hard, the money we save can be used for deportations and walls on both borders..

Just tarrifs controlling this? Don’t forget dealer agreements, drafted by the US parent company that bar a US dealer from selling to a Canadian should they decide to simply drive south and buy one direct. So if you think that it’s just the Canuck fed government trying to stop us from buying Harley’s, ask your self if you really think that stops anyone up here from buying one?

https://www.americanharley-davidson...s-american-harley-davidson-buffalo-ny--canada

“For Our Canadian Customers at American Harley-Davidson®
What our Canadian customers should know when buying a motorcycle from us
Because of an agreement with Harley-Davidson® Motor Company, we are not able to sell new, unregistered motorcycles outside the United States. However, we are able to sell pre-owned Harley-Davidson® motorcycles to Canadian residents. Below is the process of importing a motorcycle into Canada. For more info call......”


Years ago my neighbour price compared a new truck locally versus buying the same truck from a Washington state dealer. Even with a 77 cent dollar and all border fees, buying in the US was still cheaper so that’s what he did. Either way he was going to ultimately buy an American product he just chose a path where he got charged less.

Do you think there is an equivalent product to a new Harley Davidson that is being bought up here instead due the whatever duties are levied?

The reality is that Harely Davidson’s still sells quite well up here we just have to pay the going rate, but don’t think there is some shadowy Canadian industry in big twin motorcycles that flourishes at HD’s expense.

I honestly don’t think you could have picked a worse example of something with strong brand loyalty and niche market appeal where there is no substitute.

That’s how it is with all the US manufactured goods in my household right now. I hate paying inflated prices buy pay them I do, maybe thats why I tend to see it as captive audience vs an attempt to discourage my giving a US company my business.

Also, when USD converted to CAN is $1.29 on the currency exchange alone that’s a big chunk of your 30-35%

 

[ArmyJerry]

Trump is a pussy, Canada and Mexico are the worst offenders by far. NAFTA needs to go, the illegals and legal economic refugees from those two shitholes need to be sent packing back to their corrupt socialist paradises.

Tariff signed.
Canada and Mexico exempt (for now).

If we are going to have a tariff on steel, I'm glad the President went this direction.....simply as a way to soften the impact. At least it limits/lessens the blow to many of the industries that are so dependent upon steel pricing. It seems to be a decent compromise from my limited understanding of economics. Like I've said before, if we're gonna do it, let's ease into it. No one will benefit from a sledgehammer tariff.

Supposedly the president is going to revisit NAFTA with Mexico and Canada in the near future.

Within 1.5 hours I received an email from Vulcraft (a joist/deck division of Nucor) stating that they were still going to hold pricing for 30 days and hold pricing for 16 weeks after award/PO. In my eyes, taking Mexico and Canada out of the tariff (again, for the time being) was a kick through the uprights for the administration, politically speaking.

 

[ArmyJerry]

Seems the canadian mafia , and it is a fuking mafia, namely the Deely exclusive agreement with Harley was the biggest monopoly in the motorcycle world, wink wink by the Canadian government for sure. The Harley example is a perfect example to the bullshit the canadians throw in front of US businesses, and to be honest this isn't even approaching the half as bad as I have seen and been involved in up there. Trump is punking out, I want the Northern wall, asap, then we can talk about the southern wall, the people from the south seem to integrate better here in teh US so we have more can take our time there.

https://www.canadianmanufacturing.c...ver-canadian-distribution-from-deeley-147575/

Just tarrifs controlling this? Don’t forget dealer agreements, drafted by the US parent company that bar a US dealer from selling to a Canadian should they decide to simply drive south and buy one direct. So if you think that it’s just the Canuck fed government trying to stop us from buying Harley’s, ask your self if you really think that stops anyone up here from buying one?

https://www.americanharley-davidson...s-american-harley-davidson-buffalo-ny--canada

“For Our Canadian Customers at American Harley-Davidson®
What our Canadian customers should know when buying a motorcycle from us
Because of an agreement with Harley-Davidson® Motor Company, we are not able to sell new, unregistered motorcycles outside the United States. However, we are able to sell pre-owned Harley-Davidson® motorcycles to Canadian residents. Below is the process of importing a motorcycle into Canada. For more info call......”


Years ago my neighbour price compared a new truck locally versus buying the same truck from a Washington state dealer. Even with a 77 cent dollar and all border fees, buying in the US was still cheaper so that’s what he did. Either way he was going to ultimately buy an American product he just chose a path where he got charged less.

Do you think there is an equivalent product to a new Harley Davidson that is being bought up here instead due the whatever duties are levied?

The reality is that Harely Davidson’s still sells quite well up here we just have to pay the going rate, but don’t think there is some shadowy Canadian industry in big twin motorcycles that flourishes at HD’s expense.

I honestly don’t think you could have picked a worse example of something with strong brand loyalty and niche market appeal where there is no substitute.

That’s how it is with all the US manufactured goods in my household right now. I hate paying inflated prices buy pay them I do, maybe thats why I tend to see it as captive audience vs an attempt to discourage my giving a US company my business.

Also, when USD converted to CAN is $1.29 on the currency exchange alone that’s a big chunk of your 30-35%

 

[njohn890]

Nope, sorry not seeing your point here. A company up here is selling American made motorcycles, accessories and parts to Canucks. I fail to be convinced that a tiny market such as ours could in any way influence HD USA to do anything. We in fact would take direction from them, to many US companies we simply aren’t a significant enough sized market.

As for that dealer agreement it was the same as when I worked for Ford Motor Co at a local dealership, we were discouraged from selling to other areas, be it Alberta or Washington state. Note I said “discouraged” and presented the example of my neighbour buying direct from an American car dealer, and paying only the exchange rate and taxes-no duties.

Again the new HD costs 30% more simply by virtue of a 76 cent Canadian dollar, but don’t take my word for it check any online currency converter.

That said I am all for protecting your native industry. Being a car guy who grew up loving, working on and for American cars I feel sad when I see what happened to places like Detroit and Flint. And there were assembly plants for the big three in Ontario at the same time the industry’ was booming in the US. Our middle class citizens earned good livings working for your car companies just as US auto workers did.

I bought my Craftsman tools, made in the USA at the local Sears until the Canadian Sears stores starting carrying a line of Craftsman tools made in China. They were easy to spot. No problem I just stopped buying from Sears up here and bought tools from Sears stores in Washington state, still made in the US. They go with my US made Snap-On and Mac brand stuff.

The Wal Mart in my town, filled with the same Chinese made garbage I see in Washington state Wal Mart and Target stores. Build a Northern Wall, hope not if so how will I continue to buy all the US goods I like?

 

[QuickNDirty]

Nope, sorry not seeing your point here. A company up here is selling American made motorcycles, accessories and parts to Canucks. I fail to be convinced that a tiny market such as ours could in any way influence HD USA to do anything. We in fact would take direction from them, to many US companies we simply aren’t a significant enough sized market.

As for that dealer agreement it was the same as when I worked for Ford Motor Co at a local dealership, we were discouraged from selling to other areas, be it Alberta or Washington state. Note I said “discouraged” and presented the example of my neighbour buying direct from an American car dealer, and paying only the exchange rate and taxes-no duties.

Again the new HD costs 30% more simply by virtue of a 76 cent Canadian dollar, but don’t take my word for it check any online currency converter.

That said I am all for protecting your native industry. Being a car guy who grew up loving, working on and for American cars I feel sad when I see what happened to places like Detroit and Flint. And there were assembly plants for the big three in Ontario at the same time the industry’ was booming in the US. Our middle class citizens earned good livings working for your car companies just as US auto workers did.

I bought my Craftsman tools, made in the USA at the local Sears until the Canadian Sears stores starting carrying a line of Craftsman tools made in China. They were easy to spot. No problem I just stopped buying from Sears up here and bought tools from Sears stores in Washington state, still made in the US. They go with my US made Snap-On and Mac brand stuff.

The Wal Mart in my town, filled with the same Chinese made garbage I see in Washington state Wal Mart and Target stores. Build a Northern Wall, hope not if so how will I continue to buy all the US goods I like?

All I know about Canadians is - I hate their programmers, but some guys from Australia shipped a box to me worth ~25k USD and it ended up in the mailbox of some government office in some little bitty town in Northern Canada and I got a call asking if I was missing a package.

Nice lady on the phone, seemed to be completely OK with the idea of paying to ship the package to me here in H-town TX, and that was her expectation, I feel.. I got that settled and e-mailed her a shipping label, and it was here like 2 weeks later. Crazy, man... She's sitting there with my nuts in a vice and saying, 'well, I guess I could ship it to you... is the address on google right?'

NO NO NO, you can print this label and shove it in your mailbox.

 

[ArmyJerry]

you don't see my point because you are conveniently blind . You should have no problem with the tariffs if it will only hurt US manufacturers then.

Have you ever asked yourself why Canada is such a tiny market?

Nope, sorry not seeing your point here. A company up here is selling American made motorcycles, accessories and parts to Canucks. I fail to be convinced that a tiny market such as ours could in any way influence HD USA to do anything. We in fact would take direction from them, to many US companies we simply aren’t a significant enough sized market.

As for that dealer agreement it was the same as when I worked for Ford Motor Co at a local dealership, we were discouraged from selling to other areas, be it Alberta or Washington state. Note I said “discouraged” and presented the example of my neighbour buying direct from an American car dealer, and paying only the exchange rate and taxes-no duties.

Again the new HD costs 30% more simply by virtue of a 76 cent Canadian dollar, but don’t take my word for it check any online currency converter.

That said I am all for protecting your native industry. Being a car guy who grew up loving, working on and for American cars I feel sad when I see what happened to places like Detroit and Flint. And there were assembly plants for the big three in Ontario at the same time the industry’ was booming in the US. Our middle class citizens earned good livings working for your car companies just as US auto workers did.

I bought my Craftsman tools, made in the USA at the local Sears until the Canadian Sears stores starting carrying a line of Craftsman tools made in China. They were easy to spot. No problem I just stopped buying from Sears up here and bought tools from Sears stores in Washington state, still made in the US. They go with my US made Snap-On and Mac brand stuff.

The Wal Mart in my town, filled with the same Chinese made garbage I see in Washington state Wal Mart and Target stores. Build a Northern Wall, hope not if so how will I continue to buy all the US goods I like?

 

[njohn890]

[QUOTEHave you ever asked yourself why Canada is such a tiny market?[/QUOTE]

If it works out to anything like being 1/10th the size of the US market I’m going to go out on a limb and say............population size? When a state like California has more people than my entire country that’s where I might start.

I’m no economist so maybe there another way to tap into a revenue stream. And again I’m tripping over American made goods in my household right now, it always has, and will continue to mean something indicative of quality to me.

 

[supercorndogs]

[QUOTEHave you ever asked yourself why Canada is such a tiny market?

If it works out to anything like being 1/10th the size of the US market I’m going to go out on a limb and say............population size? When a state like California has more people than my entire country that’s where I might start.

I’m no economist so maybe there another way to tap into a revenue stream. And again I’m tripping over American made goods in my household right now, it always has, and will continue to mean something indicative of quality to me.[/QUOTE]

"Tiny market," I.E, not a lot of competition because they use tariffs to drive up the price of foreign competition. Probably one of the reasons 28% of your GDP comes from industry where as only 18% of ours does. I.E All our stuff is produced elsewhere.

Can you order all the cheap Chinese crap you want off e bay up there?

 

[njohn890]

[/QUOTE]"Tiny market," I.E, not a lot of competition because they use tariffs to drive up the price of foreign competition. Probably one of the reasons 28% of your GDP comes from industry where as only 18% of ours does. I.E All our stuff is produced elsewhere.

Can you order all the cheap Chinese crap you want off e bay up there?[/QUOTE]

I am with you on protecting US industry, with all the US goods I own it’s something I want to see more of, and less cheap PRK made crap. I guess I am an exception perhaps on my shopping habits as I look around I don’t have a ton of stuff where a Canadian made product sits where an equivalent US made product might sit instead, leaving out food items of course. Beyond that a lot of other textile items, electronics and consumer goods origins in my household are probably the same as yours.

As for the cheap crap off eBay I avoid it, and that’s eBay.com I’m perusing and not eBay.ca. I’m buying all from American sellers and getting free shipping to boot.

I didn’t realize there was that disparity in industry between the two countries, I wonder what specific industry we have growth in that the US hasn’t? Again my past experience was with the US auto industries and we lost plants and jobs in Ontario as well. I tend the think our main competitiveness comes from a weak dollar in terms of manufacturing and less so from unfair trade practices. My brother works in the film industry up here and they were gutted back in 2010-2011 when our money was on par with the USD. Once our dollar went back down to its standard 75-80 cent range the studios started doing more filming locally.

 

[ArmyJerry]

A country the size of Canada with its natural resources that dwarf the USA should have grown at a similar rate, after all your population is made up of a similar demographic with the exception of the draft dodgers and loyalists we kicked out, you really got to look inward and ask why Canada has failed to develop.

The number one question I am asking is why cant we export all the people here who voted for Hillary and want to go to your country. this is unfair, it seems we have a shit ton of Canadian economic refugees, you should take our mentally unstable leftist refugees. Trump needs to get that great northern wall built soonest.

Canada is protectionist to the core, that is why they have not developed in a similar fashion to the USA. Should Canada even be in the G8? or even the G20

 

[Rthur]

Something to consider about this potential strategy,
the same media/people said his tax reform was going to screw America as well.

R

 

[Sean the Nailer]

A country the size of Canada with its natural resources that dwarf the USA should have grown at a similar rate, after all your population is made up of a similar demographic with the exception of the draft dodgers and loyalists we kicked out, you really got to look inward and ask why Canada has failed to develop.

Going out on a limb here, but one thing that definitely has to do with a lot of this situation,,,, is that we don't have the "lets pump out as many babies as possible so that our welfare income can get as high as we can get" type of 'farming mentality' as ya'll have down South, there.

Everybody knows we ain't perfect, but at the same time, we Canadians aren't the ones who perfected leaching. We do, however,,,, aim and strive to be realistic, humble, resourceful, SUSTAINABLE, reliable, and consistent.

What "problem" could you possibly have with that/those values? I'll repeat again,,, we ain't perfect, but we strive to be better.

 

[ArmyJerry]

So you guys don’t like Fucking as much as Americans? I know Canadian chicks like it. So that cant be the answer.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

So you guys don’t like Fucking as much as Americans? I know Canadian chicks like it. So that cant be the answer.

Yet again I am remiss in "expecting more." You've already got the Predator drones patrolling your Norther Border. Do you really think we're going to unleash the Newfie Army to take ya'll prisoner, that you need a wall? Are you really that afraid?

 

[ArmyJerry]

Well if we had a wall we wouldn’t need to patrol your northern border

 

[winxp_man]

A lot of talk in here. But I will ask a simple question..... What if American hating leaders rise in China? (yea I know they probably don't like Americans even now)
So with this said what would happen to America if it depends on foreign steel?? Just curious, and its maybe a stronger thought for Trump being he does business all over the world, and knows the hate some have for America. There for if we dont have a inhouse steel industry we will be really screwed up the ass.

 

[Jethro3898]

I get what you’re saying, but we do have an “in-house” steel industry. We only import about 27% of the steel we consume. That means we produce about 73% of our own steel. Of the 27% we import, China only supplied about 2.5% of that. Heck, we get more steel from Turkey than we do China. If my math is correct, that means China is responsible supplying for less than 0.75% of the steel we consume.

I’m not disagreeing with you, nor am I saying that we shouldn’t limit the amount of steel we import. What I am saying is that the Steel tariff will have very little/if any negative impact on China. I honestly am amazed people keep talking about China when it concerns steel. The aluminum tariff will likely hurt them more. Yes, China does produce A LOT more steel than the US, but that steel is consumed by other countries, not us.

The aluminum industry is a whole different story, from what I have read. We import WAY more aluminum than we produce. I’m sure China has us by the gonads where it concerns aluminum. They are barely a blip on the radar where it concerns steel we consume here in the US.

 

[ArmyJerry]

Canada and Mexico are the biggest dumpers of steel according to the article above.

 

[The King]

So you are saying that this will only have a 17% impact on the consumption. In that case why are we having a meltdown about it?

We are the third largest steel producer in the world. We consume most of our own steel. Imports represent a small percentage of US steel consumption (17%). China isn't even on the top 10 list of countries where we import steel from; this tarrif isn't going to hurt China in the slightest.

Even if you replaced the 17% of steel that comes from outside the country with American steel, you're still going to lose jobs.

 

[pmclaine]

Coal was killed by natural gas. It turns out paying people good money to mine burnable rocks isn't as efficient as just making a well that taps already existing burnable gas.

Except now the enviros refuse to allow that gas to be piped to where its needed.

In MA they still have a big LNG ship come in with a military precision team to guard it because if it were to go up (slim chance) Boston and its suburbs would cease to exist.

The east of MA lost their last coal plant a short few years ago and is scheduled to shut down its one nuke.

Its expected we make energy how?

 

[ArmyJerry]

The trade war has been going on for a long time, when the Dems and Republic agree on something that means the scale of the criminality is quite high. In a trade war others willlose more than us, actually everyone else that has been screwing us over will lose more. Recipricol tariffs should be no issue, if that is what you call a trade war then we best get the war started soon.

It will have a much larger impact on jobs. Articles are already linked earlier in the thread. The Bush tariffs were a disaster. The Obama tariffs were crap too. Nobody wins in a trade war; that's why free trade has been probably the only thing Democrats and Republicans have agreed on for the past 40 years.

 

[ArmyJerry]

So you have one source of power controlled by your government 100%, you are now a slave. Enjoy it

Except now the enviros refuse to allow that gas to be piped to where its needed.

In MA they still have a big LNG ship come in with a military precision team to guard it because if it were to go up (slim chance) Boston and its suburbs would cease to exist.

The east of MA lost their last coal plant a short few years ago and is scheduled to shut down its one nuke.

Its expected we make energy how?

 

[pmclaine]

It will have a much larger impact on jobs. Articles are already linked earlier in the thread. The Bush tariffs were a disaster. The Obama tariffs were crap too. Nobody wins in a trade war; that's why free trade has been probably the only thing Democrats and Republicans have agreed on for the past 40 years.

What dont you understand about we dont have free trade.

If we impose a regulation on our industry for the good of the environment and the worker than those regulations must be born by any import coming into this country.

Arent we all one human family inhabiting Gaia?

China may be fine with two or three workers falling into the smelter a weak, just an occluion in the plate quality, or China may be fine with unscrubbed smokestacks but they will pay an equal cost on import that our businesses pay to meet regulations.

Shit China didnt have to meet the requirements of the Pacific trade agreements or Paris climate accords until 2030 if ever.

Thats fair?

.....and you will say we just have to compete harder.

Fine tie your hands behind your back and you and I will box.

No restraints on me by diplomatic agreement.

You will represent Capt America while Ill be Sun Tzu.

 

[pmclaine]

View attachment 6882756

Everyone that just read that meme is dumber than before they read the meme.

Nice job.

You have done the impossible in making a meme that totally sucks.

 

[pmclaine]

So you have one source of power controlled by your government 100%, you are now a slave. Enjoy it

The windmills in the Nantucket Soundwere going to save us but the Kennedys had enough pull to kill the project so their Hyanus (not a mis spelling) views were not destroyed.

The money spent on that boondoggle was absolutely pissed away. I wonder were the multi thousand dollar safety boat now resides.

 

[ArmyJerry]

Have you ever been to China BBBB?

Or are you once again just parroting the party line? Stop with your Shillyness.

 

[pmclaine]

Everyone loses. Period. You're quality of life is going to take a hit. My quality of life is going to take a hit. Europe's quality of life is going to take a hit. It's like a knife fight; the loser dies at the scene, and the winner dies in the hospital. Trade wars are not the a hallmark of good policy.

Something tells me Bang Bang is a regular at Walmart.

 

[pmclaine]

Every protectionists focuses on China for some reason. China isn't even in the top 10 of places where we import steel from.

China is also tightening up on it's environmental regulations because as it turns out...having money isn't any good if you can't breath the air outside. It's the same shit the United States went through in the 1970's. Regulations are almost always re-active and not pro-active. If a law exists it's usually because someone took advantage of it not existing before.

So when China gets up to speed we will talk. Perhaps this is the motivation they need to join us in caring for Gaia and saving polar bears.

and you are correct its not just China. A Harley in India has 100 Percent tariff.

I think there would be more "Sikh Glides" if they were not made the purview of the Indian rich to protect their Royal Enfield lines.

As far as I know only Mexico and Canada (where AJ comes from) are the only two countries excluded and than only until they come back to the table on NAFTA.

Just because Bush 1 (well and 2 knew how to lube it up) and Clinton fucked us doesnt mean we have to take the plunging for eternity.

....and regards China Eternal Leader Xi is likely due to their growing middle class, someone is going to have to have the power to skid steer the middle class under the tracks when they get these crazy notions of freedom in their heads.

 

[pmclaine]

Have you ever been to China BBBB?

Or are you once again just parroting the party line? Stop with your Shillyness.

I bet Bang Bang suffers from Shillbaines.

 

[Rthur]

Coal was killed by natural gas. It turns out paying people good money to mine burnable rocks isn't as efficient as just making a well that taps already existing burnable gas.

In my area we are sitting on an ocean of coal. Coal was killed by regulations/EPA and natural gas took it's place.
In fact it's so cheap to make electricity they ship it in from Wyoming and generate because "low sulphur".

R

 

[pmclaine]

In my area we are sitting on an ocean of coal. Coal was killed by regulations/EPA and natural gas took it's place.
In fact it's so cheap to make electricity they ship it in from Wyoming and generate because "low sulphur".

R

I understand coal amounts to 300 years of energy independence but that would be so unfair for the US to be Great that long.

Haters just want to hate.

 

[Jethro3898]

Nucor on 3-5-18: We don’t see any increases because the demand just isn’t there and hasn’t been there for a while. No reason to raise pricing regardless of tariffs.
Nucor on 3-12-18: Effective immediately, we are raising prices $45 per ton.

Hell of a demand increase in 7 days, I’d say.

I hate Nucor.

 

[MtnCreek]

Translation: US producers talked and decided they'd try a price increase. Eventually one will start quoting lower prices and the collusion will be for naught. JMHO.

 

[Jethro3898]

Translation: US producers talked and decided they'd try a price increase. Eventually one will start quoting lower prices and the collusion will be for naught. JMHO.

I sincerely hope you are correct.