Absolutely. I've worked for a Japanese company, Honda supplier, at a relatively high level. As such I got to interact with several senior Honda managers and execs enough to understand their worldview and approach to the people that work for them.
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Union upset over Keystone Pipeline cancellation
- Thread starter Dunraven
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Absolutely. I've worked for a Japanese company, Honda supplier, at a relatively high level. As such I got to interact with several senior Honda managers and execs enough to understand their worldview and approach to the people that work for them.
These union bashing threads make me laugh. The broad generalizations that are tossed around by both sides are hysterical. Everyone’s experiences with unions are different and that experience leads them to different conclusions. The above statement is an example and diametrically opposed to my personal experience.
I’ve worked in my profession as both a union and non union worker. In the late 90’s I was a Teamster and the majority of the members and leaders of that local were conservative. They got so tired of all the “vote Democrat” crap from the national that they somehow restructured where our dues went so very little went to national and almost all of it stayed local. We basically functioned like a independent union under the Teamsters name, which opened doors when needed to lobby in Washington. For the past 16 years, in the same profession, but different employer and a truly independent union, it’s been much the same. The membership and leadership are at least 90% republican voting conservatives. I’ve never been asked to vote Democrat by any union leadership. Like others, my job is significantly safer because of unions and the accidents you read about in the paper are almost exclusively made up of non union workers due to improperly maintained equipment, lack of training, lack of experience, and lack of proper rest.
The reality of the situation is that politicians are liars and far too many people are willing to drink their cool aid. From what I’ve witnessed, both sides screw over unions and their workers without remorse when it serves their purpose. The idea that many union leaders have, that they are supported by democrats, is a delusional narrative; as delusional as the belief by minorities that the only democrats support them. I strongly suspect that the leaders of the union workers on Keystone did encourage them to vote Democrat. I also suspect many of those workers chose to vote for Trump anyway.
I just want to say to their ignorant union leaders: What were you thinking? Trump gave you Keystone, Biden said he would shut it down, and you idiots told you members to cut their own throat and vote for Biden. How stupid is that! Time for a change in leadership, if they are that delusional, they are likely screwing the workers over in some other ways too.
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I wasn't talking about every union across the country . I don't know what Trump did with coal .Obama killed coal.
I was non union in the mines. Even big daddy Peabody filed bankruptcy because of his policies.
Now I work in generation, and it's dying too. Trump didn't do anything to help fossil plants, or the coal industry.
Now that'll get the trump kool aid drinkers bitching at me too..
See, I don't really follow a crowd, there are a few things I appreciate in organized labor, and many that I raise helll about. But at the end of the day, the non union management are responsible for the injuries that occured. Lack of maintenance is a bad thing when dealing with 3550 psi, 345kv and 1050 steam temps.
Same thing with Trump. He did some fantastic things, but only with EO. Unfortunately the gimp is erasing them daily. Imho, the anger should be focused on the Republican party.
Just call em like I see em.
Or didn't !
Were, we not shipping a lot of coal to the Chi-Coms .
I do know that we were not importing a bunch of oil from the middle east .
I do know that the oil companies were making lots of money in the production of oil and gas .
I also seem to remember that unemployment was pretty damn low until the Rona showed up last year .
I also was getting job offers from head hunters on a weekly basis .
A lot of those paid as good or better than my union job now.
I have worked a wide variety of job sites over the years. I’ve worked as a scaffold builder in Texas before 9/11 when illegals could still get work in refineries. I was climbing cell towers when 4g was the newest greatest. I’ve been on crews were I was the only white guy. I’ve been dropped in by helicopter. I have often been alone on remote job sites left to do my task.
Yes.. I alone.. on a job site am more often than not the only person responsible for my safety.
The last job I worked that had a safety was on day shift and I worked night.
He was a exception to the rule. He also had been to Iraq and was a doc. That is the only safety I’ve had over me that made me feel safe. This was because his status as combat medic proven in the sandbox.
I understand what your trying to say.. you should understand some of us cannot be shoved into a mold of normalcy.
I ALONE am responsible for my safety.[/QUOTE]
I just hope and pray that everyone involved in the theft of the election and our country lives long enough to reap the rewards of their actions. Trump in 2024 ? There won’t be an honest election in this country again. What you see is what you’ve got. Communist Democrats and Rinos. Can’t wait to see their faces when their guts go to growling.
I'm confused, you quoted me and said that is a broad generalization and your experience was different and have never been asked to vote Democrat. Yet, your last paragraph is agreeing with what I was saying. You act like I'm bashing unions then call union leaders ignorant.
My attitude is what keeps me alive. I didn’t see any safety’s or osha my entire time in the army..
when my family is cold I can’t tell them that osha says it’s unsafe to fell a tree by myself in 5’ snow on snow shoes. I just pray and do what needs to be done as safely as possible.
Managers that will form a opinion about someone without even seeing them work or seeing any of their credentials are also the ones sitting in the office making policies “for safety” that actually create safety concerns.
Managers that refuse non union are too political for me anyways.
You say similar conditions.. I seriously doubt it.
Great post, couldn't agree more. People applying absolutes in this thread employ the same tactics the left uses. The hypocrisy is laughable.
I understand your approach but safety is a group effort. There are a group of plating bath technicians currently 6ft in the ground because someone added HCl to a plating bath containing sodium cyanide.
Individual safety is vital but group safety and cross checking each other/looking out for one another produces the best results.
If "dropped in by helicopter" and a bit of tower climbing or remote location work is your standard for flexing, I'll just leave you be.
I've seen the attitude you're pushing result in some shitty outcomes for people who were unwilling to recognize they're in over their heads and seek assistance. I've seen it result in assholes who know better looking on as people fuck up and cause problems for everyone else.
FYI if you're dropping trees in deep snow/wearing snowshoes it's best to track out a pad surrounding your tree and at least 1 exit route depending on the complexity of the tree you're dropping. If you're doing this in a production oriented environment it's pretty easy to line out your cuts for tanks worth by walking the site.
I've seen the attitude you're pushing result in some shitty outcomes for people who were unwilling to recognize they're in over their heads and seek assistance. I've seen it result in assholes who know better looking on as people fuck up and cause problems for everyone else.
FYI if you're dropping trees in deep snow/wearing snowshoes it's best to track out a pad surrounding your tree and at least 1 exit route depending on the complexity of the tree you're dropping. If you're doing this in a production oriented environment it's pretty easy to line out your cuts for tanks worth by walking the site.
When I was in grad school, we had a researcher join the lab after retirement from industry. He worked at a company with unionized labor- at least in part. For example, facilities was union, though lab employees were not. One day, the light bulb burned out in his fume hood, taking it off line. Being a good employee, he filed the ticket for the light bulb to be replaced. Months later, the light bulb is still not replaced. He replaced it and immediately had a grievance filed against him for taking a union job.
Fuck the union.
My uncle was a member of the union when he was employed at Alcoa. Fuck, it seems like he was on strike more than he was working. Either the Alcoa plant was striking, or the Reynolds plant was- I think the Union flipped a coin every week to decide which plants were not running. Anyway, based on the stories he told, I’m surprised that any of us had enough foil to make a hat. But, he retired with a fat pension.
Fuck the union.
California and Connecticut both have teachers‘ unions. You don’t have to be a member, but you still have to pay the dues.
Fuck the union.
Before he retired, my dad had to visit the site we a new office building was being built.
”It’s 9 in the morning, and your months behind schedule. Why are you all sitting around having coffee?”
”Oh, they’re the dry wallers. They can’t start until the electricians pull the wires to the boxes.“
”Where are the electricians?”
”???”
<Looks at wall> “The wires are, literally, hanging at the boxes. Stuff them in there and get to work.”
”Can’t. That’s a union job...”
Fuck the union.
Unions- Avioding work-place accidents by avoiding work since 1866...
Fuck the union.
My uncle was a member of the union when he was employed at Alcoa. Fuck, it seems like he was on strike more than he was working. Either the Alcoa plant was striking, or the Reynolds plant was- I think the Union flipped a coin every week to decide which plants were not running. Anyway, based on the stories he told, I’m surprised that any of us had enough foil to make a hat. But, he retired with a fat pension.
Fuck the union.
California and Connecticut both have teachers‘ unions. You don’t have to be a member, but you still have to pay the dues.
Fuck the union.
Before he retired, my dad had to visit the site we a new office building was being built.
”It’s 9 in the morning, and your months behind schedule. Why are you all sitting around having coffee?”
”Oh, they’re the dry wallers. They can’t start until the electricians pull the wires to the boxes.“
”Where are the electricians?”
”???”
<Looks at wall> “The wires are, literally, hanging at the boxes. Stuff them in there and get to work.”
”Can’t. That’s a union job...”
Fuck the union.
Unions- Avioding work-place accidents by avoiding work since 1866...
I work with unionized plant workers all the time and I have no issue with them getting stuff done in a timely manner. I also don't have an issue with doing things myself and them filing grievances. Everyone has their own experiences both good and bad.
Pretty wordy rationalization.
Information is easily available; quite a bit from unionized family members.
Don't care how much YOU donate.
Pay taxes? Sure, but the choice not too is a bit more difficult than choosing to not support unions.
Didn't qualify for a stimulus check. I'm one of the lucky few that get to "share" our wealth.
No idea how much PP or (insert third world SH here) gets of my tax dollars. Too lazy to do the math.
All politicians share in the pork.
Your point is a deflection.
Don't call me sir. There wasn't a zero before my paygrade.
Don't know what brawndo is.
Ok let's be factual.
Unions were started by straight up communists. The largest unions in the country are/were run by admitted communists. (Not the call someone a commie just because but actual ones) Richard Trumka, AFL-CIO, or Andy Stern SEIU. Or those sold out to the mob, Teamsters. (If you think that ended with Jimmy Hoffa, I have a bridge to sell.
I've noticed more than one pension fund bankrupted over the years leaving members high and dry. Think typographers union or laundry workers. That money going to the union leadership or cronies.
So unions worked for you. Yay for you. I've witnessed unions ruin lives of others from greed. See International Harvester for example.
I've seen unions ruin individuals because they don't give a shit. As long as you are singing their song, towing their line and paying dues then you can do ok. Another name for that is slave.
Do you know that in the middle ages most serfs wanted to remain serfs rather than be freemen. Why? Because the most basic of human instincts is to be cared for. (See most women) Not to be free. Not to choose their own destiny. You are a slave to what the union says you can have and are thus limited to that. If you're happy with that great for you.
May those chains rest lightly on ye.
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I know a guy that worked at a Toyota plant. He's been laid off. If that's the quality of average Toyota assembler, I would never buy another Toyota. If UAW vanished, and I wish they would, (I saw 60 minutes and those Chrysler workers getting high and drunk at lunch) then my car might actually be affordable. Did you ever imagine a $100,000 pickup truck?
I recognize the need for group safety when in a group environment.
I also recognize when it’s your time nothing will change that.
You don’t always get to pick your crew.
I have stopped a job or 2 in my time and have literally saved lives.
The premise that union is what makes jobs safe is just false pure and simple.
Yes unions can potentially make a place safer.. or they can hand a bunch of guys a piece of paper endangering everyone else by placing a union man on equipment he has no business operating.
I don’t expect everyone to share my views.
I do however demand the right to make my own decisions.
I know crane operators and pipe welders.
I’ve had platform jobs eating steak and shrimp, collecting overtime while waiting in a immersion suit for the Fog to clear enough for helicopters to fly.
And I’ve been paid to work in conditions that would give osha a orgasm. As much as I’d like to believe in the ideals your selling I know the truth and my experiences. As much as we Wish we could, we will never be able to get rid of the idiots or have a big enough safety cushion from them. It’s actually made worse by giving more people a false sense of security. Bad enough to die on the job, but up here you are more likely to get yourself in a situation we’re you die slowly.
I have watched unions back up and save the jobs of the absolute trash of the workforce. (I understand a legal responsibility to do so, but there's a limit). If that trash were made examples of the level of workforce quality would go up and maybe we wouldn't be so against unions. Public sector unions and teachers unions are the absolute worst.
Teachers unions are the worst in this regard. It doesn’t resonate with some people that total years of service does not translate 1:1 To quality years of service. The whole first in last out mentality of unions preserves a lot of dead wood. Did I mention, fuck the union?
1. extracting the maximum amount of wages and benefits for the LEAST amount of work
2. protecting the unwilling and incompetent
3. stifling productivity
4. maintaining union leaders' lavish lifestyles
5. supporting their socialist overlord democrat candidates
Thank you for giving me advice.
I do that out of need and do pad out and have a direction to dive already picked out. I do this to keep my family warm and often have to carry all of it out. My point with this was I do what needs to be done based on the situation. Obviously it would be safest to have help there, but cannot always wait for help. I know how to be safe and pray for wisdom regularly that I might make the right decisions.
It should be no surprise to you that politics and a current small oil town environment haven’t been to kind lately with the work scene. Probably won’t surprise you one of my skill sets is welder either..
I would encourage you to quit going on your first impression and actually evaluate people over a longer time period. As I am one of the types that everyone that takes the time to get to know me seem to love me and people that don’t seem to despise me based on my “strong” personality. I can work circles around any union guy I’ve met and do so as safe as possible. I’ve seen people die for stupid decisions. Decisions they made and decisions made for them. Now that I’m too old to go back into the army I can strive to ensure that any decision that potentially takes my life will be mine and not others.
I can see how a union can really work for some, if like the military, they do it early enough and put it to work for them.
Yes that is a noble target.
My reality is different. I’ve seen and known too many that didn’t make it.
As we speak I’m more worried about diying at the hands of the gov that is currently telling me I cannot have guns even in the house were my family of 5 resides even though I’ve not been convicted of or even charged with a serious enough crime to give gov legal right to remove my rights.
If I can’t even defend my family in my home and I’m debating with y’all fine folks over union and saftey.. hows that for saftey. For me saftey is also about having the right tools for the job before you. Is your union doing anything towards ensuring you have the tools necessary to defend your family?
Sorry for the confusion. If your original post had started with “some” or even “often” before saying “unions tell their members to vote Democrat”, I would have never quoted your post. I don’t think you’re bashing unions, I was just using your wording as an example of a common broad generalization often applied to all unions that I have found to not be completely true. So the short story is basically both. Not all unions tell their members to vote Democrat and some do to their own detriment and demise as the Keystone workers union did. And I think that’s very foolish of their leadership.
You're the one who decided to try and flex the experience card on some pretty low-key tasks. Not going by first impressions cuts both ways, but I can only work off what you've said here at the moment. I'm sure you're a great guy and I'm not about to bag on you for doing what you need to in order to support your family, but I don't see the initial statement you made here as at all accurate in the context of most actual workplaces where things like unions are a possibility. If you want to hold it as your personal truth or whatever, go for it.
Good ole' Lur... I mean John Kerry - Biden's newly appointed "Climate Czar" - says they'll be better jobs, too! Hell, they should be grateful!
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I should have clarified my statement. I do not believe unions make people safer. I only believe when safety is applied as a group with people checking each other then a higher level of safety is achieved. I guess you could consider it a sort of safeguard.
I do agree with you that idiots will find a way to harm themselves or other and that is inevitable until we are all replaced by robotics.
That sounds quite communist of you good sir. I make the money I make because I work hard and chose to be represented. That allows me to earn the wage I am due. I, unlike you belive, you should become union and earn a wage worthy of your effort. The cost of cars has to do with the value of the american dollar. The union has fought to increase my wages accordingly with the cost of living. Seems you would rather everyone be equal. Are you sure you didn't vote blue?
If voting worked they wouldn't let us do it. Hence the dominion issues. If I would have voted it would have been wasted on Jo Jorgenson the only candidate really willing to make a difference in the way our country is going.
Your just blind bro. Voting doesnt work. All politicians (trump and biden) are is puppets for big money interest. Get your childish left wing right wing bs out of here. Nothing is as simple as left or right, red or blue. As long as you and these other followers think like that our country is doomed to repeat history. Continuing the divide of a people is just playing into the hands of the .01 percenters who own the central banks and who fund both sides of the "political race"
A protest vote is a vote for the other side, every time. And, the only thing worse than a protest vote is someone too apathetic or jaded to be bothered to vote. Congratulations, you have made my small list of people with opinions not worth reading.
Coming from the guy who cant think outside his little box. I'm so bothered you think so little of my opinion.
Okay so now I'm curious to how you think... hypothetically I voted for trump. Then the Dems "cheat" by the use of electric voting machines. Then "we" still lost. What's the difference?
Ah sorry rhetorical question. The difference is I'm not dumb enough to play their game. While your still mad you lost a game you were never going to win.
Whats the problem Sleepy Joe said your going to make solar panels and write computer code and drive Tesla cars and give your money to developing countries to fight climate change. Stock tip for everyone "commercial extension cords" there about 3500 miles long for the electric planes to fly coast to coast. Its funny watching them fucking up the system , its almost like we were attacked and they took everything away from us so we have to live like cavemen. Word is Kerry and Blumenthal were seen red veining in the mens room.
Unions have NOT made work places safer. That's called technology. once I find the article I will post it. Unions do nothing but raise money for certain people. And it ain't you.
I used to work for IBEW local 827 in NJ for 9 years. It was Verizon. Previously Bell Atlantic.
Fuck them with the most rusty cactus in the world.
Doc
I used to work for IBEW local 827 in NJ for 9 years. It was Verizon. Previously Bell Atlantic.
Fuck them with the most rusty cactus in the world.
Doc
Good ole' Lur... I mean John Kerry - Biden's newly appointed "Climate Czar" - says they'll be better jobs, too! Hell, they should be grateful!
Yep. I can just see that 50-year-old welder smoothly transitioning into the climate change field.
Not to mention the salary disparity going from the pipeline job, to an assembly line job at Solarco.
story just today on OAN. Chrysler fined for bribing the UAW brass. it never ends with unions. commies and crooks all.
unions are the antithesis of a free market. they keep wages artificially high, higher than the 'market' would normally bear. You don't take a job, and then complain the wages are too low (I actually know teachers who do just that). If you are not satisfied with the conditions of the job, you don't take it; there was no evil ogre twisting your arm to take the employment. Or, if conditions become unacceptable, or you consider the company 'unethical', you, in a free market, have the ability to pick up and go elsewhere. It is the union member, who feels justified in resorting to extortion through numbers, who is the unethical one, since he is unwilling to adhere to the contract to which he initially agreed.
If unions were only about getting fair wages for a fair days work and safety of the employees and it was easier for the membership to fire the union leadership. Then they'd have a place. But that's not the case in a majority of them.
If you think over priced cars have nothing to do with bloated, overpaid union workers, YOU are the problem.That sounds quite communist of you good sir. I make the money I make because I work hard and chose to be represented. That allows me to earn the wage I am due. I, unlike you belive, you should become union and earn a wage worthy of your effort. The cost of cars has to do with the value of the american dollar. The union has fought to increase my wages accordingly with the cost of living. Seems you would rather everyone be equal. Are you sure you didn't vote blue?
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