US Military Died Today

[ranger1183]

Re: US Military Died Today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know, there's more hate shown to our Soldiers nowadays, just take a walk through Seattle with a high and tight...or ask the boys from Ft. Lewis. </div></div>
I was stationed at Ft Lewis for seven years during the Clinton administration and I NEVER had a problem in Seattle regardless of how short I cut my hair. In fact, this is the first I've ever heard of servicemen having any problems whatsoever in Seattle. Where are you getting your info from?

 

[eleaf]

Re: US Military Died Today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheSmokeRolls</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Some may say that we are moving forward with tollerance and acceptance, but we are on a downward decline from what the founding fathers intended for this country. </div></div>

The Founding Fathers intended to keep gays from serving in the military?

Go find a clue.

 

[eleaf]

Re: US Military Died Today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Texagator</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The fact that gay males that have a potential to have HIV will have promiscuous sex with any willing female and spread the HIV further into the ranks of heterosexual Soldiers.</div></div>
Huh? Does not compute. </div></div>

You have to put on your tinfoil hat. Then the GAY CONSPIRACY becomes clear.

 

[eleaf]

Re: US Military Died Today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Reading some of the homophobic posts here you have to ask what is the difference between the posters and the Taliban?
</div></div>

Probably not much in a lot of ways. Probably not much.

 

[eleaf]

Re: US Military Died Today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dust_Remover</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm with Lowlight for the most part, however I say make them sort of like the women, no combat arms jobs for gays. I was infantry, and I know the infantry type. We are all entirely too macho to be able to deal with a gay man in the house. It would only lead to really bad things. If they want to serve, that's great, serving ones country is a great honor. If you're gay, serve away, just not in the combat arms.

That's just my opinion, however this country is on the fast track to excessive tolerance. Where we draw the line is as clear as mud.

Branden </div></div>

If you think you didn't serve with gay men in combat arms, you're foolish. They are already there and have been for ages.

 

[netranger6]

Re: US Military Died Today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know, there's more hate shown to our Soldiers nowadays, just take a walk through Seattle with a high and tight...or ask the boys from Ft. Lewis. </div></div>
I was stationed at Ft Lewis for seven years during the Clinton administration and I NEVER had a problem in Seattle regardless of how short I cut my hair. In fact, this is the first I've ever heard of servicemen having any problems whatsoever in Seattle. Where are you getting your info from? </div></div>

From 2 subordinates that took pipes to their melons, both Striker Brigade. Albeit, these two are pretty rowdy, but claim they were jumped. Also tell stories of the protestors constantly outside post.

 

[eleaf]

Re: US Military Died Today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertrat1979</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downrange1x</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1 Bushmaster7, a country is doomed to repeat the mistakes of other powreful empires or countries if they don't learn from past mistakes! Everyone needs to dust off their history books and read about the downfall of the Roman empire and what lead up to it. Romans 1:26-27</div></div>

My god, the Roman Empire fell because they were gay??? And all these years I thought the fell due to the governments lack of control over their military, over extending their territories, becoming a dictator over assimilated cultures, corruption in the legislature, and failure to listen to the people. Glad you set us STRAIGHT here. I dont know what we would do without history lessons like this. </div></div>

We'd probably all be a lot smarter without said "history" lessons.

 

[eleaf]

Re: US Military Died Today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sickeness</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't see the problem except for the fact that this will end up creating a "protected class" in the military. Some homo is gonna end up getting their ass kicked for flaunting their gayness or hitting on someone, they will attempt to request mast / write their congressman and report it as a hate crime and before you know it, we will have lawsuits which will lead to an even "kinder and gentler" military. Either that or you will have an openly gay serviceman kill/hurt themselves over "hazing" and not being able to get out anymore due to DADT. The military no longer attempts to "fix" people and bring them into its culture, they are focused on lowering their own standards to meet the dropping standards in society. </div></div>

So it's okay to beat up a guy because he's gay, but not for a gay guy to retaliate via the justice system?

Yeah.

 

[sickeness]

Re: US Military Died Today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sickeness</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't see the problem except for the fact that this will end up creating a "protected class" in the military. Some homo is gonna end up getting their ass kicked for flaunting their gayness or hitting on someone, they will attempt to request mast / write their congressman and report it as a hate crime and before you know it, we will have lawsuits which will lead to an even "kinder and gentler" military. Either that or you will have an openly gay serviceman kill/hurt themselves over "hazing" and not being able to get out anymore due to DADT. The military no longer attempts to "fix" people and bring them into its culture, they are focused on lowering their own standards to meet the dropping standards in society. </div></div>

So it's okay to beat up a guy because he's gay, but not for a gay guy to retaliate via the justice system?

Yeah. </div></div>

You missed the point. Guys get beat up everyday in the military, when you are in a "protected class", it changes things. You can beat up any guy walking down the side of the street and get arrested, but if the guy you beat up happens to be a homosexual, you can also be charged with a "hate crime". I see the same shit happening here.

 

[Graham]

Re: US Military Died Today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sickeness</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You missed the point. Guys get beat up everyday in the military, when you are in a "protected class", it changes things. You can beat up any guy walking down the side of the street and get arrested, but if the guy you beat up happens to be a homosexual, you can also be charged with a "hate crime". I see the same shit happening here. </div></div>Hmmmm....So, if I understand your argument correctly, the problem is that people in the military won't be able to beat-up homosexuals.

 

[DaveV]

Re: US Military Died Today

Four pages and still rolling

 

[ranger1183]

Re: US Military Died Today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sickeness</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You missed the point. Guys get beat up everyday in the military, when you are in a "protected class", it changes things. You can beat up any guy walking down the side of the street and get arrested, but if the guy you beat up happens to be a homosexual, you can also be charged with a "hate crime". I see the same shit happening here. </div></div>Hmmmm....So, if I understand your argument correctly, the problem is that people in the military won't be able to beat-up homosexuals. </div></div>
Graham, you made the same point I was going to.

 

[Toddcal13]

Re: US Military Died Today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now you're getting into the equal opportunity debate, which can go on and on based on its own (dis)merit seperate from the whole polesmokers in foxholes gig.

ch'e's response to CB above sums up my views pretty well.

I'm not even going to start on the whole mess of abandonment issues I have from being a Goldwater Republican whose party turned into a bunch of idiotic bible thumpers who believe "morality" has something to do with the civic principles of the constitution.

+1. i find fault with anyone who wants to control harmless behavior. I saw a problem with republicans the second they wanted government so small it could fit in your bedroom. Who gives a fuck what other people do. I have many homosexual friends, never once have I felt uncomfortable around them.

DADT was bad from the get go. Either you do your job or you don't-regardless of all else. </div></div>

 

[shark0311]

Re: US Military Died Today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shark0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The simple fact that congress is taking so much time and energy to focus on a system to ensure that the ability of people to fuck each other when there are far more pressing issues is telling.



</div></div>


Congress addressing the rights of individuals are upheld is not pressing? Gee . . . here I was thinking that that was Congress' ONLY FUCKING JOB.</div></div>

They also provide funding...

Ask the Marine that just got his legs blown off if he give a rats ass about DADT. The troops on the ground could care less. This is a stupid issue that doesn't deserve the attention that it's getting.

I'm all for gay rights but it is terribly disappointing that legislation that arguably effects less than one percent of our troops is so damn important to the public.

A friend quoted a statistic (not verified) that 80% percent of our casualties come from the infantry but less than 1% of military spending goes to their training and equipment. Even if this statistic is wrong this is how the Grunts feel...bad juju if you ask me.

 

[Toddcal13]

Re: US Military Died Today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sickeness</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sickeness</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't see the problem except for the fact that this will end up creating a "protected class" in the military. Some homo is gonna end up getting their ass kicked for flaunting their gayness or hitting on someone, they will attempt to request mast / write their congressman and report it as a hate crime and before you know it, we will have lawsuits which will lead to an even "kinder and gentler" military. Either that or you will have an openly gay serviceman kill/hurt themselves over "hazing" and not being able to get out anymore due to DADT. The military no longer attempts to "fix" people and bring them into its culture, they are focused on lowering their own standards to meet the dropping standards in society. </div></div>

Really? I'm sorry, but I just can't see it.

Wake up...

So it's okay to beat up a guy because he's gay, but not for a gay guy to retaliate via the justice system?

Yeah. </div></div>

You missed the point. Guys get beat up everyday in the military, when you are in a "protected class", it changes things. You can beat up any guy walking down the side of the street and get arrested, but if the guy you beat up happens to be a homosexual, you can also be charged with a "hate crime". I see the same shit happening here. </div></div>

 

[shark0311]

Re: US Military Died Today

For those that need a reminder of why this shit isn't important right now. The fiscal year ended in Oct. and our troops still don't have a budget for next year.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: US Military Died Today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you had sex before marriage, had sex with more than one woman, become divorced, killed, been gluttonous, lusted etc then you've already broken your moral soapbox. Try reading more books.

I find those who run to the hills of morality do so fuelled by their own hypocrisy and fear. Fix your own faults before you take on the faults of others. </div></div>

Ever consider taking your own advice?

 

[Rob01]

Re: US Military Died Today

Good post Shark. That's not gay or straight blood. That's American blood. The kind all our military bleeds. Doesn't matter race, sex, or sexual orientation. Semper Fi!

 

[Switchblade]

Re: US Military Died Today

Being a young Marine in Oahu in the 80's I saw acts between gay Marines that blew my young niaeve mind away. Playing music in teh punk scene to get rid of all the angst, I saw two Marines, Robert, and Steven turn to suicide as a way out for the hazing they recieved while serving in the Marine Barracks, Pearl Harbor.
I saw the bias and ovetly open acts in upstate NY from quite a few openly gay men and women, and the parites we had during off duty times appeared to be a place where they decided anything went(we all worked together, partied together). There were a few issues, and the openness was a part of that. These are just the facts that I have seen in my 26 years.
Did I have an issue against it 26 years ago? Yes, I was a Nor-Cal Biscuit and Gravy eatin country boy. Have I seen the effects of what happens when Cornbread's intolerance meets San Francisco's behaviors, yes. It creates a very ugly scene that although many say the military is ready for, I have my doubts because there are still people who are taught from birth that this stuff is wrong and have no tolerance for it.
As to running to the hills of morality, I held my share of gluttony, lust, greed, and other sins and have no room to stop anyone from doing what they do. It's kind of what I based my service on, but I still don't have to like it.
Do I think it's a politically charged issue? Yes. But, it is a people issue, a freedom issue, and a rule of law issue that has to be addressed within the ranks of those I no longer serve with. It will cause a few problems, and I am certain that a certain amount of 'Jim Crow' type laws or behaviors will follow suit surrounding this issue.

The issue has been addressed:
SHould gays be openly allowed to serve. COngress/Senate says YES

That is about a done deal now. NOW it has to be dealt with and there are issues that will arise that need to have sound, valid premises to support them to work. If at any time, an unsound or invalid premise is used to support then the premise is nothing more than rhetoric and propaganda and invalid.

What single questions have to be answered at this point? These are the issues I would take to my local governement and let them do what they do.