Vudoo Gun Works V-22 Rimfire Bolt Action

#2,204
quickdraw said:
Lapua Ammo Test Center Review:

I made my appointment last month over the phone. I drove from Vegas to Phoenix the day before and spent the night in the area because my appointment was at 8am. The next morning I arrived at the Nammo facility around 7:40 and checked in at the guard gate and was told to wait for my escort which was Daniel the guy who does the testing. This facility is a ammunition manufacturing and testing facility. They make military caliber ammunition from smaller caliber up to artillery ammo including the LAWS rocket. It is a sprawling facility.

Dan met me at 8:10 and we drove the short distance to the testing site . This is a CONEX that has been converted into a separate office and addition room where the testing is done. Coming out of the end of the CONEX is a 5ft diameter concrete pipe that the bullet travels down. This one is 100 yards long and parallel to it was was another similar building and pipe that Nammouses for testing heavier caliber ammowhere a medium size round is 50 caliber.

We removed my barreled action from my chassis and mounted it in the testing block that Mike at Vudoo had manufactured for them to use with the V22 action. It is a very nice piece. That block with my barreled action if then mounter in a heavy duty vice that is bolted down to their base. My scopes were already zeroes to 50 yards so he just used my scope to bore site everything in the pipe. They run optical sensors at 50 and 100 yards to track the bullet flight and placement. It would be like shooting groups on paper but it displays those groups on 2 computer monitors, one for each distance and with the bullet not shooting through material at 50 yards they can get undisturbed shot information at 100 yards simultaneously.

When asked what ammunition that I was interested in testing I had decided Lapua Center X and maybe some Midas Plus as well. He selected 8 lots of Center X and we began. First 10 rounds to warm up and foul my previously cleaned barrel. After that we began by loading and shooting 10 round strings of each lot. Each shot was plotted and displayed by the computer on individual monitors shot by shot for 50 and 100 yards. There equipment being I believe German origin displayed all information in mm so I used an app on my phone to do conversions that I understood. The groups and information is also displayed as a maximum diameter from the outside of each bullet rather than center to center so I took that into account as well. Basically I was looking for 20mm at 50 yards and 30mm at 100 yards which was within 1/16" or less of 1moa at each distance.

As we proceeded testing lot after lot we found some that shot well and others not so much. When we found a lot with potential we would shoot a 2nd or possibly 3rd 10 round string. Some of them might shoot great only to have a single shot that killed the group so we might retest a 2nd string to confirm that a bad result. Other strings were bad enough where we moved on after 4 shots. At the end of testing the first 8 lots we had found 3 lots with potential but I asked to try some other lots while looking for the "magic bullet". We tested 8 more lots with similar results. At that point I asked to test some Midas Plus and after 4 lots with similar results I decided that there wasn't any reason to pay 50% more for Midas that shot the same as Center X. At that point we removed my barreled action and switched to my wife's barreled action. This time we only tested the 1st 8 lots that we used on my rifle with similar results.

After each batch of lots Dan would print out data sheets from those lots and I reviewed then as he was continuing the tests. By the time we completed the testing I had already narrowed everything down to 3 lots for our rifles. I wanted to find a single lot to use in both rifles and they both seemed to like the same lots. I reviewed the information with Dan and decided of a preferred lot number. He check the inventory at their Missouri warehouse and I placed an order for the quantity I wanted. I also selected the retailer that I wanted to use to pay for the ammo. I went with Good Shooting as I had previously purchased from them and they had good pricing.


What I learned from the process:

I had initially thought that I could find a "magic bullet" of sorts. As the process went on my thought process changed though. Overall about 25% of the lots shot better in relation to the others. 50% shot well just a little below the first group and 25% shot larger groups or vertical strings. While shooting several strings of the same lots I found those lots to be fairly consistent string to string. I learned about the capability of our rifles and of what accuracy that they were capable. I learned quite a bit about what consistency I could expect from them. Our rifles shoot this lot of Center X at .8moa at 50 yards and 1moa at 100 yards.

Was it worth the time and expense:

I drove from Vegas to Phoenix so I used the better part of 2 days. Between hotel and gas it cost $350. The testing is normally $50 per rifle, he had said that he would do both for $50. In the end he waived the testing fee because of the quantity of ammo I purchased. I personally think that is was time and money well spent based on the education, information and confidence I now have in my rifles.

Note: Some people just send their rifles in to Dan and he does the testing. After that he sends them the data sheets and reviews the information with them. This would be a more cost effective way to gather the information and I may do that next time in 4 or 5 years when I run out of ammo. Maybe I'll take a trip to Texas and test with Eley...
Click to expand...
Great review.

A couple of questions:
  • What were group size averages across lots? This is the first opportunity I have personally seen where it's possible to actually quantify group size changes across lots of the same ammunition - THANKS for posting this and following up!
  • What was the average, high, low, extreme spread, and SD within individual lots? Correlation to group size? I'm curious as to how much variation exists across different lots of mid- to top-tier Lapua ammo.
  • Was your barrel cleaned at any point during the test? If there are accuracy/ballistics variations across lots, it seems to me that the thickness/consistency of bullet lube could play a role in consistency... perhaps mid-test cleaning is overdoing it; since each round is tracked, I would assume the first 5 rounds in a 10-shot string would stabilize the amount of label-specific lube present in the barrel, holding that specific lube as a constant....
For me, it all comes down to return on cost/time investment is search of the "magic bullet." If the difference across lots is minimal, it would be nice to quit worrying about finding the perfect lot. What is acceptable, of course, is going to be different for different shooters.
 
#2,206
  • In the 16 strings of Center X fired through my rifle the smallest group at 50 yards was 16.01mm and largest was 22.36mm. 100 yards was 32.39mm to 44.54mm.
  • Velocities were not recorded.
  • My rifle is stable and consistent to 500 rounds so no need to clean during testing. All ammo shot was the same manufacturer so same lube throughout.

I'm was not trying to develop a bencherest rifle, just looking for a good performing rifle for tactical precision rifle matches. Consistency and moa accuracy will give me everything I need.
 
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#2,207
quickdraw said:
Lapua Ammo Test Center Review:

I made my appointment last month over the phone. I drove from Vegas to Phoenix the day before and spent the night in the area because my appointment was at 8am. The next morning I arrived at the Nammo facility around 7:40 and checked in at the guard gate and was told to wait for my escort which was Daniel the guy who does the testing. This facility is a ammunition manufacturing and testing facility. They make military caliber ammunition from smaller caliber up to artillery ammo including the LAWS rocket. It is a sprawling facility.

Dan met me at 8:10 and we drove the short distance to the testing site . This is a CONEX that has been converted into a separate office and addition room where the testing is done. Coming out of the end of the CONEX is a 5ft diameter concrete pipe that the bullet travels down. This one is 100 yards long and parallel to it was was another similar building and pipe that Nammouses for testing heavier caliber ammowhere a medium size round is 50 caliber.

We removed my barreled action from my chassis and mounted it in the testing block that Mike at Vudoo had manufactured for them to use with the V22 action. It is a very nice piece. That block with my barreled action if then mounter in a heavy duty vice that is bolted down to their base. My scopes were already zeroes to 50 yards so he just used my scope to bore site everything in the pipe. They run optical sensors at 50 and 100 yards to track the bullet flight and placement. It would be like shooting groups on paper but it displays those groups on 2 computer monitors, one for each distance and with the bullet not shooting through material at 50 yards they can get undisturbed shot information at 100 yards simultaneously.

When asked what ammunition that I was interested in testing I had decided Lapua Center X and maybe some Midas Plus as well. He selected 8 lots of Center X and we began. First 10 rounds to warm up and foul my previously cleaned barrel. After that we began by loading and shooting 10 round strings of each lot. Each shot was plotted and displayed by the computer on individual monitors shot by shot for 50 and 100 yards. There equipment being I believe German origin displayed all information in mm so I used an app on my phone to do conversions that I understood. The groups and information is also displayed as a maximum diameter from the outside of each bullet rather than center to center so I took that into account as well. Basically I was looking for 20mm at 50 yards and 30mm at 100 yards which was within 1/16" or less of 1moa at each distance.

As we proceeded testing lot after lot we found some that shot well and others not so much. When we found a lot with potential we would shoot a 2nd or possibly 3rd 10 round string. Some of them might shoot great only to have a single shot that killed the group so we might retest a 2nd string to confirm that a bad result. Other strings were bad enough where we moved on after 4 shots. At the end of testing the first 8 lots we had found 3 lots with potential but I asked to try some other lots while looking for the "magic bullet". We tested 8 more lots with similar results. At that point I asked to test some Midas Plus and after 4 lots with similar results I decided that there wasn't any reason to pay 50% more for Midas that shot the same as Center X. At that point we removed my barreled action and switched to my wife's barreled action. This time we only tested the 1st 8 lots that we used on my rifle with similar results.

After each batch of lots Dan would print out data sheets from those lots and I reviewed then as he was continuing the tests. By the time we completed the testing I had already narrowed everything down to 3 lots for our rifles. I wanted to find a single lot to use in both rifles and they both seemed to like the same lots. I reviewed the information with Dan and decided of a preferred lot number. He check the inventory at their Missouri warehouse and I placed an order for the quantity I wanted. I also selected the retailer that I wanted to use to pay for the ammo. I went with Good Shooting as I had previously purchased from them and they had good pricing.


What I learned from the process:

I had initially thought that I could find a "magic bullet" of sorts. As the process went on my thought process changed though. Overall about 25% of the lots shot better in relation to the others. 50% shot well just a little below the first group and 25% shot larger groups or vertical strings. While shooting several strings of the same lots I found those lots to be fairly consistent string to string. I learned about the capability of our rifles and of what accuracy that they were capable. I learned quite a bit about what consistency I could expect from them. Our rifles shoot this lot of Center X at .8moa at 50 yards and 1moa at 100 yards.

Was it worth the time and expense:

I drove from Vegas to Phoenix so I used the better part of 2 days. Between hotel and gas it cost $350. The testing is normally $50 per rifle, he had said that he would do both for $50. In the end he waived the testing fee because of the quantity of ammo I purchased. I personally think that is was time and money well spent based on the education, information and confidence I now have in my rifles.

Note: Some people just send their rifles in to Dan and he does the testing. After that he sends them the data sheets and reviews the information with them. This would be a more cost effective way to gather the information and I may do that next time in 4 or 5 years when I run out of ammo. Maybe I'll take a trip to Texas and test with Eley...
Click to expand...
Sounds like a great experience IMO, appreciate the informative post. (y)

Did you get they torque specs they used in the fixture?

What barrels are in your rifles?

What quantity did you end up purchasing?
 
#2,209
Cmkaco said:
Is anybody using any of the Vudoo muzzle brakes?
Click to expand...
Screenshot_20181211-122739_Gallery.jpg
i am..just to protect muzzle crown :)
 
#2,214
Sieg said:
Sounds like a great experience IMO, appreciate the informative post. (y)

Did you get they torque specs they used in the fixture?

What barrels are in your rifles?

What quantity did you end up purchasing?
Click to expand...

I called Vudoo for the torque specs. 65 in/lbs.
My rifle has a 18" Kukri Ace barrel. My wife's is an 18" Kukri Bartlien barrel. They both shot near exactly the same with the same lots. Go figure.
I picked up a few cases. I took everything they had remaining of the lot I wanted.
 
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#2,219
bmicek said:
View attachment 7032302
Picked up my barreled action this weekend. With the snow we have, I’m only able to shoot 25 yards behind my house because I’m too lazy to shuffle through the snow to set up any further targets. But I will say, single hole 25 yard groups are getting boring. What a good problem to have :D
Click to expand...
Slick looking set-up you have there. What kind of stock and color pattern do you have on it ?
 
#2,223
hey guys i seem to have a consistent first/second shot low from a new loaded mag
vudoo 16" AICS shooting wolf target match ammo this weekend

first is the lowest, second shot is higher 1 moa up approx, and the third is higher still but that is at the cross hairs/zero.
i have a half ass video from a scope cell phone mount ill try to down load if needed.
but the next 4-5 hit about a .5 moa group @ 100.

if i remember vudoo says they bolt grabs the round and stuffs it in the chamber so im guessing pressure from the mag and feed ramp are out.

shooting off a bench atlas/rear bag not prone, which is not my forte but the rifle cant be jumping the same every first shot

i havent shot 22lr in 20 years and when i did i was hitting cans outside. is this just a 22lr thing?
 
#2,224
brianf said:
hey guys i seem to have a consistent first/second shot low from a new loaded mag
vudoo 16" AICS shooting wolf target match ammo this weekend

first is the lowest, second shot is higher 1 moa up approx, and the third is higher still but that is at the cross hairs/zero.
i have a half ass video from a scope cell phone mount ill try to down load if needed.
but the next 4-5 hit about a .5 moa group @ 100.

if i remember vudoo says they bolt grabs the round and stuffs it in the chamber so im guessing pressure from the mag and feed ramp are out.

shooting off a bench atlas/rear bag not prone, which is not my forte but the rifle cant be jumping the same every first shot

i havent shot 22lr in 20 years and when i did i was hitting cans outside. is this just a 22lr thing?
Click to expand...

I don’t know any technical terms to explain it but I have experienced similar with other rimfires I have owned. Kind of like you gotta foul/warm up the barrel the first shot or two then everything else falls into place after that. Someone will surely chime in as there is a lot of knowledge in this forum alone.
 
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#2,229
brianf said:
hey guys i seem to have a consistent first/second shot low from a new loaded mag
vudoo 16" AICS shooting wolf target match ammo this weekend
Click to expand...

What was the temperature outside? I've had consistency problems with Wolf Match Extra when the temps dropped below 30 degrees. I'd try a different ammo in cold weather. I just got in some Lapua Polar Biathlon to test when it gets cool here again.

Another option is to keep your ammo warm. I know people that during cold weather keep their 22 ammo in a small cooler with chemical hand warmers until they are ready to shoot.

But if your barrel is cold, you're still going to have a cold bore shift.
 
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#2,230
billmeek said:
What was the temperature outside? I've had consistency problems with Wolf Match Extra when the temps dropped below 30 degrees. I'd try a different ammo in cold weather. I just got in some Lapua Polar Biathlon to test when it gets cool here again.

Another option is to keep your ammo warm. I know people that during cold weather keep their 22 ammo in a small cooler with chemical hand warmers until they are ready to shoot.

But if your barrel is cold, you're still going to have a cold bore shift.
Click to expand...

This is very true - I am impatient and have been shooting mine in this Canadian Polar Vortex and you can see the accuracy degrade as the ammo/barrel cools off (-20 C/ -4F). Even if you keep your ammo warm (I put it in my inside coat pocket) once you jam that round into your barrel the wax on it freezes pretty much right away and causes inconsistency.

I was shooting Tenex in -25C and had a FTF - the round was so frozen in the barrel I had to knock it out with a cleaning rod.
 
#2,232
This past weekend I had to light strikes using Lapua Midas Plus. One round failed to extract. I spoke to them and shipped my rifle back yesterday. Some of the older rifles have weak firing pin springs. I'm thinking my extractor springs need to be stronger as well. I had the same issue with Eley Edge. I cleaned the chamber to make sure that wasn't an issue. I'm sure its an easy fix.
 
#2,233
Learning which ammo my Vudoo seems to like. My son shot what I felt was a real good 10 shot group at 50 yards with SK Standard Plus. The SK Match shoots well too. Really enjoying messing around with the Vudoo and anxious to stretch it out.
 
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#2,234
iirc VGW recommends lapua center x, eley tenex, rws special match for match grade and SK rifle match and standard plus for mid grade. it may not be what works the best, but itll be a great place to start the search.
 
#2,235
it was prob 45 more or less.
underground cement tube with outside air mixed in with indoor air.
long sleeve shirt no gloves, chilly but...so way above freezing.
next time ill try and wait a long time between shots so the barrel gets cold again.

good to know im not the only one.
i figured that with the huge amount of metal on a vudoo and the little 22 charge the heat build up would be irrelevant almost non existent.
 
#2,236
Got the video..looses focus but you can still see the important first shots

Still trying to figure it how to lock the focus on my iPhone but the side scope attachment is really cool.

I stopped putting up new targets years ago, I usually just find a lonely shot or staple and dial off a little so I keep a clean aiming point.

I was cheating this weekend, I put my kahkes 10-50 on top.

https://youtu.be/tKiybcUMCDw
 
#2,237
brianf said:
Got the video..looses focus but you can still see the important first shots

Still trying to figure it how to lock the focus on my iPhone but the side scope attachment is really cool.

I stopped putting up new targets years ago, I usually just find a lonely shot or staple and dial off a little so I keep a clean aiming point.

I was cheating this weekend, I put my kahkes 10-50 on top.

https://youtu.be/tKiybcUMCDw
Click to expand...

I just watched the video. Few question:
It looked like you are shooting at a bullet hole, was that the 1st round of the string or was it already there and the 1st round was the lowest round of the group?
Was the barrel clean or fouled when you started this string?
If it was fouled was it fouled with this ammo, not another brand?
Does the groups behave like this for every time you start a new freshly loaded magazine?
Will it do it with a magazine loaded with only 5 rounds?
Have you double checked all fasteners on the rifle?
What stock / chassis, how is the bedding?
How does it behave with a different ammo (brand)?
Here is the big one: You mentioned that your shooting in a tube underground with some kind of ventilation. Do you think it could be an airflow thing in the tunnel? It kind of looks like that to me. The rifle and ammo seems to be very accurate (if this video was shooting at 100 yards). I am skeptical that it is a rifle or ammo accuracy issue, it could be a bedding issue, bullet damage during feeding from the first few rounds of a maxed out magazine, but most likely an air flow issue in the tube.

Answering these questions I think will definitely help nail down the problem. I am very interested in this one. I am not an expert but I have been down this road a few time feel free to reach out if you want and we can talk it over.
 
#2,238
jbell said:
I just watched the video. Few question:
It looked like you are shooting at a bullet hole, was that the 1st round of the string or was it already there and the 1st round was the lowest round of the group?

I answered each question individually below.

Yes that was a bullet hole that was just on the paper with a clean spot so I could record the shots. When I go to this underground range the targets are a bilco door. So if the paper is clean enough I'll find a bullet with some space and the spin the turrets. Can't shoot quarter minute groups when the aiming spot starts growing from previous shots.
Then first is the first shot of the string (lowest one).

Was the barrel clean or fouled when you started this string?

Fouled, if I remember that was a few mags or wolf ammo already, random 7-10 what ever falls out of the little ammo box.
Barrel prob has 500 rounds through it so far.

If it was fouled was it fouled with this ammo, not another brand?

See above

Does the groups behave like this for every time you start a new freshly loaded magazine?

See next question but I think with 9-10 rounds, might be more often.

Will it do it with a magazine loaded with only 5 rounds?

I forget...sorry. Didn't pay super attention until I noticed it.

Have you double checked all fasteners on the rifle?

I'll go over it again but I know the scope rings mount and bipod were tight I had just put them on the night before., but I'll check again.

What stock / chassis, how is the bedding?

AICS ax, 60- 65 lbs action screws

How does it behave with a different ammo (brand)?

The federal I shot before was so random I couldn't say, the wolf started shooting tight groups and that's when I saw the deviation. Next time out I'm going to try some rws, so but starting with wolf to limit variables.

Here is the big one: You mentioned that your shooting in a tube underground with some kind of ventilation. Do you think it could be an airflow thing in the tunnel? It kind of looks like that to me. The rifle and ammo seems to be very accurate (if this video was shooting at 100 yards). I am skeptical that it is a rifle or ammo accuracy issue, it could be a bedding issue, bullet damage during feeding from the first few rounds of a maxed out magazine, but most likely an air flow issue in the tube.

I thought it could be a air flow issue but the vest is always running, I'm guessing the a shot and shockwave through the tunnel might case a disturbance but it only seems up and down.

Answering these questions I think will definitely help nail down the problem. I am very interested in this one. I am not an expert but I have been down this road a few time feel free to reach out if you want and we can talk it over.
Click to expand...

If this doesn't help shoot me a pm etc.

Thanks
Brian

That was 100 yards and the original zero was the federal match, wolf shot 3-4 inches lower. I'm going to check the weight and drag out my magneto as well
 
#2,239
I read the answers, here is what I would do if it were me:

After confirming all the fasteners are tight load up a magazine with 10 rounds and chamber a round as you normally do, extract it and inspect the bullet for signs of damage & repeat for the next few rounds. If no bullet damage is noted go to the range with that same ammo and a few boxes of Lapua Center X (even if you have to order some and wait for it), and bring along everything you need to clean the barrel but don't clean the barrel just yet. Start off with the Wolf that is acting funny, if the results are the same try a magazine or two of 5 rounds, try a different magazine. If a different magazine or a magazine of 5 rounds doesn't help clean the barrel well, however if one of them does help double check the results by re-creating the low rounds and then go back to what fixed it to make sure it is repeatable. If you get to cleaning the barrel change to the Center X, foul the bore with 10-15 rounds and then test it with Center X.

I am recommending Center X because it is the most reliably accurate and consistent rimfire ammo I have ever tested across a wide range of barrels. It may not always be the most razors edge accurate but it is always close. I have never seen a quality custom barrel not shoot Center X well.
 
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#2,244
earthquake said:
Who has the best prices on a Vudoo BA?
Click to expand...
I bought my Vudoo 18” Ace barreled action and the MPA comp chassis from Core (now Altus). In stock and they always have many diff stocks and chassis options in stock all the time. I had previously gotten another MPA chassis for my match gun from them. Great service and experiences and will buy from them in the future. Mile High I’m sure is similar as well.
 
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#2,245
I use a VGW bore guide, 17 cal Dewey rod, VFG 22cal felts and a quality solvent (lately I have been using Bore Tech C4 Carbon remover, but Butches Bore Shine, TM Solution, Bore Tech Eliminator, Hoppes #9 all work well). I had to modify the felt jag to fit past the ejector in the V22 action but that is easy, however a regular patch and jag are fine too. I find that the Ace & Bart barrels on these rifles clean up really fast, not much is needed. I never brush them, let the solvent soak a bit and patch / felt until they come out clean, working the throat area a little at the end of it all just to make sure that any carbon buildup is removed. Then dry the bore well. **I clean the bolt and action out more often than I clean the bore.
 
Last edited:
#2,246
Placed my order with Jay on 03-January - 20" cobalt Kukri (Ace) in NRA blue MPA BA chassis, Timney Calvin Elite trigger. Delivered last Thursday 20-February. A few days' delay due to weather affecting shipping. Jill was responsive and patient with order changes twice during the process.

I shot 125 rounds of Wolf (Lapua) Match Extra and CCI SV last week to zero the scope (Vortex Viper PST 5-25x50 on too-tall 1.26" Vortex PMR rings) and to get some rounds through the new barrel.

Today was my first opportunity to try several kinds of ammo (CCI SV, SK Standard+, SK Rifle Match, Wolf (Lapua) Match Extra, Lapua Center-X). Wind was definitely a factor. Groups were mostly in the 3/8-1/2" range at 50 yards with a few 1/4" and one 3/4", with the higher-rated brands providing lower ES and slightly better group size (4 or 5 5-round groups fired/chronoed for each ammo type, clean with one wet and two dry patches, fire 10 fouling rounds, record next 4 or 5 groups, repeat).

In short, my Vudoo is performing as expected. I am eager to shoot groups one more time without the bleeping wind.

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#2,247
I have never used a bore guide, but I can see the advantages in having one. What I don't understand is, what is the small bullet shaped device they stick in the back end of the bore guide? What is that called, and what does it do?
 
#2,249
bjay said:
That has smaller hole for you rod prevent wobble and not having contact inside bore
Click to expand...

Exactly this, but to expand a little more the ID of the main part of the bore guide is much larger than bore diameter so you can push a wet patch or brush through with no resistance (it doesn't squeeze all the solvent out of the patch into your bore guide). The insert that you are referring to should have an ID of (or should be damn close) rod OD or at least slightly less than bore ID. You have to install the insert on the rod before you install your cleaning attachment (jag with patch, felt holder, or brush). After the patch or brush is in the body of the main part of the bore guide almost in the chamber you insert the small insert in to the main part of the guide, and you have to remove it from the guide before you remove the rod completely from the guide after the cleaning pass. But exactly as bjay said it is to better align the rod with the center of the bore and prevent you from hitting the bore with the rod. It also helps combat rod flex if your patch or brush is a bit too tight.
 
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#2,250
Thanks! So, is there a cutout in the side of the bore guide, where the port in the action is, so that you can change patches or tips on the rod, or do you have to remove the whole bore guide, rod and back end stabilizer (for lack of a better term), every time you change the patch or tip on the rod?
 
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