It's a Pro-X. Only tuner I've owned to date, just bought it for the V-22S, so I have no experience with any of the others on the market.
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Vudoo V-22S Single Shot BR/F-Class Action
- Thread starter RAVAGE88
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Another question: What barrel did you get and and what length? The reason I'm asking is that I have a Harrell's tuner that I used on my 40X and plan on using it on my V22S (same muzzle diameter-.900) I've been told that the Harrell's is for longer barrels and that the Pro-X was designed for shorter ones. zi talked with Clint Swigert regarding the Pro-X and he said it should work good......
I have a Shilen R5 that I finished at just under 25". Shilen's description of the contour shows .850" diameter from the front of the transition radius to the muzzle, but mine measures .863". The Pro-X is available with a range of front bushing lengths, and with the proper bushing, will work on barrels from 16" to 26". I ordered mine with a 1" length bushing, and it may be just long enough, but just in case, I'm turning another one for it at 1-1/8" length.
Thanks for the info! Mine is coming with an ACE 22". I'll try the Harrell's first. If it doesn't work, it'll be the Pro-X for sure...
Merry Christmas!
trying to wrap my head around 1k rounds before testing. I have always shot f/class and know the barrels burn up ben there done that many times. But wouldn't a good rim fire shoot its best shots after a little break in and cleaning ? If you have a good rim fire barrel why does it take that many rounds to break in? I am newer to 22lr bench rest so just seeking info. wouldn't some witches brew cleaner do as much break in as 1k rounds ? Just seeking knowledge.
If it’s a good barrel that has been chambered properly it will shoot as good as it is going to right out of the gate. At the very most maybe just a few hundred rounds, but none that I have owned needed any more than that. At least that has been my experience...
Not wanting to start anything but this information I was going off. Your mileage my very but your spending a lot money and I can only tell you mine shots better every outing, could be the shooter bounding with the setup or the whole system breaking in .
Still loving my V22S get out about every weekend maybe not so much getting to be below zero weather but I want to see how it act in real cold weather.
What do you think MB did you make this for cold weather or is the chambering going to be to tight .
Anyone else going shot in the cold or just going to be me ?
FYI:
This not my information this is screen shot from another site this is where I read the information.
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My 52C was made in 1960 and know I have have more than 20k round thru as I bought it used does it still shot great for me I would have to say yes, is it world class no but I’m not either, Rimfire from what I understand can go on and on compared to center fire rifle. What everyone thing ?
@mattt: Very good question.
My assertion is the number of rounds required to break-in a barrel is an open question. A lot of opinions but neither data nor theoretical justification for the number of rounds. Has either Lapua Test Center given a reason for the number they specify?
Some comments:
(1) Ammunition does not have an accuracy/precision. Only a rifle-ammunition-shooter combo have accuracy/precision.
(2) I have not seen a definition of what it means to break-in a barrel. Perhaps when the accuracy/precision no longer changes according to one or more statistical metrics. But what metrics and by how much? Say when the average precision in different 6x5 Challenges differs by less than 0.010 MOA?, 0.050 MOA? more? Choose your poison but please state it quantitatively. Otherwise like blind men describing an elephant.
(3) A hypothesis: The number of rounds needed for break-in could vary substantially. Say zero rounds to who knows how many, however anecdotally likely not none.
(4) A digression. At a Lapua Test Center they shoot 10 or 20 shots to determine the accuracy/precision of the ammunition from a lot with your barreled action plus trigger. What is the probability that the statistics from 20 shots represent the statistical accuracy/precision for any other 20 shots from the the lot? You are purchasing a case, 5000 rounds, from a sample size of 20. Yet people choose ammunition based on comparison of 20 shot shot samples from different lots. Perhaps better than nothing, perhaps not. One can only hope the relative accuracy between lots can be determined with 20 shots from each lot.
(5) Another digression. Twenty shots are probably too few for good statistics. Harold Vaughn in his book "Rifle Accuracy Facts" said he never used less than 40 shots in a group and often 60 shots to reach his conclusions. Vaughn did not present the reason(s) for using his sample sizes.
(6) An open question. Say you want to shoot a 6x5 Challenge. How much sampling would you need to determine the statistical accuracy of six five shot groups from a lot? Ultimately depends on manufacturing tolerances for the ammunition and how those tolerances interact with your rifle with the usual caveat that all other factors significantly influencing precision only vary insignificantly during the testing.
(7) An ode to shooting standing, offhand shooting. Beat my favorite drum one more time. Buy premium ammunition and don't worry about the ammunition since your marksmanship is the dominate source of dispersion.
My assertion is the number of rounds required to break-in a barrel is an open question. A lot of opinions but neither data nor theoretical justification for the number of rounds. Has either Lapua Test Center given a reason for the number they specify?
Some comments:
(1) Ammunition does not have an accuracy/precision. Only a rifle-ammunition-shooter combo have accuracy/precision.
(2) I have not seen a definition of what it means to break-in a barrel. Perhaps when the accuracy/precision no longer changes according to one or more statistical metrics. But what metrics and by how much? Say when the average precision in different 6x5 Challenges differs by less than 0.010 MOA?, 0.050 MOA? more? Choose your poison but please state it quantitatively. Otherwise like blind men describing an elephant.
(3) A hypothesis: The number of rounds needed for break-in could vary substantially. Say zero rounds to who knows how many, however anecdotally likely not none.
(4) A digression. At a Lapua Test Center they shoot 10 or 20 shots to determine the accuracy/precision of the ammunition from a lot with your barreled action plus trigger. What is the probability that the statistics from 20 shots represent the statistical accuracy/precision for any other 20 shots from the the lot? You are purchasing a case, 5000 rounds, from a sample size of 20. Yet people choose ammunition based on comparison of 20 shot shot samples from different lots. Perhaps better than nothing, perhaps not. One can only hope the relative accuracy between lots can be determined with 20 shots from each lot.
(5) Another digression. Twenty shots are probably too few for good statistics. Harold Vaughn in his book "Rifle Accuracy Facts" said he never used less than 40 shots in a group and often 60 shots to reach his conclusions. Vaughn did not present the reason(s) for using his sample sizes.
(6) An open question. Say you want to shoot a 6x5 Challenge. How much sampling would you need to determine the statistical accuracy of six five shot groups from a lot? Ultimately depends on manufacturing tolerances for the ammunition and how those tolerances interact with your rifle with the usual caveat that all other factors significantly influencing precision only vary insignificantly during the testing.
(7) An ode to shooting standing, offhand shooting. Beat my favorite drum one more time. Buy premium ammunition and don't worry about the ammunition since your marksmanship is the dominate source of dispersion.
Actually, while usually, that is not true in a fair number of instances, with some barrels.
I do not know why, nor does anybody else, but it happens.
I cannot tell you, how many instances there have been, which several custom smiths can recount, where match barrels.....some brands........simply come alive after a few bricks.As you have said, and as I have personally experienced, usually a good one is recognized right out of the gate, BUT, I have seen,I have had the other, more frustrating variety.
If there’s a message here, if you have a disappointing barrel, don’t give up too soon.
Same thing with CFBR barrels, as Frank Green from Bartlein has posted several times, sometimes they need a couple hundred.
This, and your questions 5 and 6, which are essentially the same one rephrased, is an excellent question. It will depend on the variance. The other thing is that at least when I was there, if he saw a lot that looked particularly good he would often shoot another 10-20 rounds, and that makes the statistical analysis more complex since the sample size is now conditional on the variance. To be honest, I don’t know the answer but I suspect that given the high variation within a group, you may need a lot more than 20 shots to detect, say, a 20% difference in group size.
On a related note, I’ll point out again that nearly everything in centerfire load development is based on the idea that you can tell the difference between two loads with a three or five shot sample, which is simply not true, and therefore all these practices may be complete BS.
I was once told by a gunsmith that the first "X" amount of rounds thru a new barrel help polish out any machine marks left in the chamber leade. Depending on the the quality of the chamber and the machining marks, this might be why some settle down earlier than others. A quality chambering and lapping job may not need as many thru the pipe as a poor job will require. Will a smoother/polished leade with no machining marks lead to better accuracy? I have no idea. I will note, I am no expert, this is just what I was told. It seems to make a little sense. 
Lapua could just use that number to be safe, or sell more ammo. 
Gjmen22
Lapua could just use that number to be safe, or sell more ammo. Gjmen22
If only we knew that probability distribution for the accuracy/precision of a lot was Gaussian, the average accuracy/precision for the lot and variance of accuracy/precision for the lot , we could calculate accuracy/precision probabilities, confidence intervals and test hypotheses for samples of any size. Alas we do not have that intel. All we have are small sample statistics.
Perhaps the same school of thought behind barrel makers recommending a shoot & clean break in procedure...
Gjmen22
I was once told by a gunsmith that the first "X" amount of rounds thru a new barrel help polish out any machine marks left in the chamber leade. Depending on the the quality of the chamber and the machining marks, this might be why some settle down earlier than others. A quality chambering and lapping job may not need as many thru the pipe as a poor job will require. Will a smoother/polished leade with no machining marks lead to better accuracy? I have no idea. I will note, I am no expert, this is just what I was told. It seems to make a little sense.
Gjmen22
you better find a better gunsmith......no known amount of reasonable rounds will do that. CF absolutely.....RF no.
Somebody puts a burr in a chamber or crown , for instance, it’s there virtually forever unless removed by other mechanical means.
This is why several precision RF gunsmiths will do a post chamber lapping to clean them up after reaming or boring.
Some will maintain a throat with JB or IOSSO but it is easy to go too far.
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We can get as much data as we want and answer all those questions, it’s just a matter of doing it. I will take a look at numbers soon.
I imagine Lapua and the other ammo makers have looked at their data and probably do know these answers but doubt they’d tell us.
Meanwhile, back at the thread.....
Anyone have any new targets shot from the V-22S? Must not be many rifles released yet or we would be seeing more examples of how it shoots. Please post some examples if you have any to share.
Thanks!
Anyone have any new targets shot from the V-22S? Must not be many rifles released yet or we would be seeing more examples of how it shoots. Please post some examples if you have any to share.
Thanks!
Sure:
These were at 100 yds 15 degrees weather but sunny. Lapua polar biathlon .bipod with rear bag.
This isn’t the weather to testing for score but I needed the range time and wanted to see what the V22S like the cold.
You can judge for yourself.
Did the build care about the temperature ?
I’m planning to get out with it below zero also as long as it’s sunny.. only 3 more months of Winter..
The popsicle sticks were just for fun little harder that groups only one shot per stick.
Enjoying the build.
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I was able to get in some shooting at 50yds in pretty awesome conditions late in the day about a week ago - temp was 47*F when I started, and wind was calm - unusual, but very welcome when trying to establish a solid no-wind windage zero on a new scope. Rifle was shot with Pro-X tuner attached; my scribbles on the targets were due to some confusion as to where I had the tuner set. Good thing I've got new glasses ordered with stronger scrip for the bifocal - I thought I had the tuner set for 120, but wasn't seeing the finely engraved scale correctly, as it was on 145. I can see the scale well enough indoors, but with bright sunlight outdoors, it gets tougher to see it clearly. At any rate, groups #1 & #2 on the 1st target were 'warm-up' strings with an average lot of SK Std+, then I switched to a lot of Center-X that was 2nd best during lot testing 3 or 4yrs ago - I'd found an outstanding lot, but my testing had been delayed by work & weather, and I wasn't able to find more of it, so settled for 7 bricks of the 2nd best lot, which hasn't shot all that well in my V-22 repeaters. However, it does pretty well in the Shilen with Nevius chamber & the tuner, so I'm glad I've still got several bricks of it. I'm shooting off a portable bench that's a little hard to get comfortable with, with the same homemade SS front rest & rear bag that's in the pic of the rifle. I'm seeing pulse beat in the Sightron SIII 45x45 scope unless I shoot w/o any upper body contact with the bench, which isn't easy or comfortable for me to do. Have a lot to learn about 22RF BR shooting, and am also thinking seriously about buying a single-piece rest. I used the Purdy method of calculating the initial setting for the Pro-X tuner, and wound up out at a setting of 398, so then re-calculated to find the EC of the bushing, and subtracted it to come up with the 120 setting. I think the rifle shoots very well - it just needs someone who has a clue to pull the trigger...
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Happy New Year Mr Flat, I am surprised that you are one piece restless. I bought an Arnold one piece 6 mo ago for testing, I had no intention of chunking my bipod but i dont think Ive shot a round off the bipod since. I really like this thing. One of the thing its done for me is to see how much a slight wing affects me. I only have a repeater, thinking about a ratchet.
Those are some very good groups!
Cuzz - I've been researching one piece rests for a couple of weeks, though I've thought about getting one since I ordered the V-22S action. Some 22RF BR matches forbid the use of one piece rests, but regardless, I feel it's the way to go. In fact, I ordered a PQP precision joystick rest with the fuzz button top from Killough yesterday, and am very much looking forward to getting it in hand and doing some shooting with it. AFAIK, there are no 22RF BR matches being shot out here in the western Kansas area; I'll probably have to drive a couple hundred miles down to the Wichita area to find any. But I feel I'll need such a rest if I'm ever going to get the tuner sorted completely out, along with a more substantial bench set in concrete...
Happy New Year to you as well!
Happy New Year to you as well!
I have that very same rest with that top. I love it and I am sure you will too.
im driving 4 hrs to Lake Providense La to an indoor match 8,9,10 jan, i hope there will be a V udoo br gun there that i can see.
I guess I'm lucky. I only drive 30 min to practice or shot a match one direction, or 30 min the other way just to practice. That's in Ohio, here in FL. I drive 1 hr just to practice. Oh, I have an Arnold, but Stiller shoots off of a joy stick with fuzz.
Tim7139 - Thanks for the feedback on the Stiller rest. Wasn't looking to spend that much on a rig, but it's not like I'll live long enough to wear it out - and I didn't want to buy the Lite version and then regret not getting the heavier model with all the bells & whistles I might want. It'll be great if the weather moderates enough out here for me to get it set up and shoot enough with it to get used to it over the winter.
you have to imbrace my #1 motto....”It’s never too late to have a happy childhood”!
I'll give it my best shot...lol
I'm known for saying that I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up. Will hit the magic 70yrs old next fall - man, where did all those years go?
I'm known for saying that I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up. Will hit the magic 70yrs old next fall - man, where did all those years go?
We have sanctioned ARA matches in McCook, NE once a month during the summer and that may be fairly close to you depending on your location in western KS. You can find contact info for the matches on the ARA website here:
American Rimfire Association
Come up and join us! One-piece rests are allowed in all ARA matches except for Factory Class.
Landy
Landy,
McCook is practically straight north of here; K23 runs north out of Dighton, jogs over to the west a few miles north of Hoxie and joins US83 to McCook. Looks to be about the same distance (170mi) that I drive to shoot HP with the guys at Central Ks. Gun Club just north of Hutchinson. Thanks for the invite; will look into coming up! Biggest issue for me is that I farm alone, and once I get the irrigation wells & sprinklers fired-up for the season, I'm more-or-less tied down - unless we get a really beneficial rain that allows me to shut them down for a few days...
ETA - Just looked up the range location on Google Maps - the airport is really close to the range. There's a nice old '64 Beech Bonanza sitting in our hanger at our airport that's practically begging to be flown more - with any kind of a tailwind, bet I could make it up there in under 50 minutes...
McCook is practically straight north of here; K23 runs north out of Dighton, jogs over to the west a few miles north of Hoxie and joins US83 to McCook. Looks to be about the same distance (170mi) that I drive to shoot HP with the guys at Central Ks. Gun Club just north of Hutchinson. Thanks for the invite; will look into coming up! Biggest issue for me is that I farm alone, and once I get the irrigation wells & sprinklers fired-up for the season, I'm more-or-less tied down - unless we get a really beneficial rain that allows me to shut them down for a few days...
ETA - Just looked up the range location on Google Maps - the airport is really close to the range. There's a nice old '64 Beech Bonanza sitting in our hanger at our airport that's practically begging to be flown more - with any kind of a tailwind, bet I could make it up there in under 50 minutes...
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We seem to have a lot in common. I'm a retired farmer, as well as an ex-commercial/aerobatic pilot, and owned a '52b Bonanza for quite a few years back in the '80's.
I reside in Cozad which is about 90 miles northeast of McCook.
Maybe we'll meet in the future,
Landy
Thank You Mike
IF I call in and order the wood stock, what is the Voodoo price for the stock?
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