Rifle Scopes We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Sounds like S&B better increase production for the upcoming increase in orders. Scott you have always taken care of the Hide, your support of us will payoff for you, in the future direction of your business.

Change, at times is a good thing....Move forward!
 
lame...to hell with them

I have yet to do business with Liberty, but look forward to in the future...Scott you seem to be a good guy.

I was considering a P.R. 3-15, looked to be a nice, US high end alternative to the big German's and alternative to NF. I liked the turret technology especially.

Oh well, Just pulled the trigger on a S&B 4-16 - this made made decision very easy.

Ted needs to "man up" and have a discussion before flying off the handle...his little company (ATI) will find themselves hurting for business if they operate like a bunch of emotional school-girl hotheads (no offense to schoolgirls).

I found it interesting that Botach Tactical is listed as an Premier dealer, talk about iffy dealers selling below MAP. Yes, good prices, grey market goods and some of the most unpredictable (marginally ok to horrible) service in the industry!

Give me a break ATI...<span style="text-decoration: underline">screw you and Premier</span>!
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Scott sorry to hear the news. I think and hope this will backfire on Premier.
I own two Premier scopes, courtesy of you AND primarily because of your recommendation. I was going to spend my money on another but that is not happening now.
Premier has lost me as a customer as well.

To Premier, if your listening, good luck competing with S&B, Zeiss, SWFA, etc.. without the support of dealers like Scott who helped get your product out to MANY customers.

Evan
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Scott, you will come out ahead here.

A lot more affinity for you than Premier around here.

I had a couple of their scopes before they jacked the price.

Only bought Schmidt once Premier decided they were worth as much as S&B.

Screw'em.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Absolute Bull Shit!
I was planning on a Premier in the future. Not any more!
I would also like to know of any other products ATI/Stumpp makes or distributes. Someone here should know and will hopefully share.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

The Kool aid is tart. I will purchase another PR if needed, as I'm very satisfied with my 5x25. This is just business, and really shouldn't be publicly mentioned. I'm just saying.

The more this thread is read, I guess the less valued the scopes currently in the hands of normal guys like me, become. So, thanks the devaluation. Nothing like a good smear or two.

I mean for fuck's sake, look how many guys are already commenting, "I never have seen a PR, now never need too"....... this thread is unprofessional.

Good luck.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crshep</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Absolute Bull Shit!
I was planning on a Premier in the future. Not any more!
I would also like to know of any other products ATI/Stumpp makes or distributes. Someone here should know and will hopefully share. </div></div>

Not to worry:
-Elcan
-Tenebraex
-Badger Ordnance
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

The only way to hurt them is to tell everyone you know, and ask them to tell everyone that they know.
It's obvious that the only thing Premier cares about is the bottom line so do everything you can and use every underhanded trick that you know (Just like they did) to destroy thier business along with ATI. Liberty was the first to promote Premier when others wouldn't so this is how Liberty has been repaid.
Premier,ATI, and of course you Stump never knew what the word "Honor" means. It's time you learn.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mpardun</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crshep</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Absolute Bull Shit!
I was planning on a Premier in the future. Not any more!
I would also like to know of any other products ATI/Stumpp makes or distributes. Someone here should know and will hopefully share. </div></div>

Not to worry:
-Elcan
-Tenebraex
-Badger Ordnance
</div></div>

Correction- they represent Badger Sport , not Badger Ordnance.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Stump is doing a job. He was cool enough to come clean about it afterward. Liberty is a good company to do business with. I always thought the way companies got around MAP, was to include goodies, i.e. rings, bases, etc. Premier can do business any way they want. We have tons of great choices for highest end glass. Just remember, you don't have to do business with assholes if you don't feel like it. Life is too short, and the alternate products too many.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Thanks!
Don't these Idiots realize there are other alternatives to their products that are just as good. Loyalty and support has to go both ways.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

[/quote]

Correction- they represent Badger Sport , not Badger Ordnance. [/quote]

I got it from their own www (maybe they made a mistake?):
Screenshot2011-05-07at74101AM.png
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I owned and shot premier products for a years (Leupold conversions, S&B MTC and PR Heritage) I became leery of the company when my point of contact punched out....got rid of the Heritage, and will no longer deal with PR.

Little things add up, and I don't forget. S&B Hensoldt Leupold and Nightforce have not let me down, so I will stick to them for here on out.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The more this thread is read, I guess the less valued the scopes currently in the hands of normal guys like me, become. So, thanks the devaluation. Nothing like a good smear or two.</div></div>

Hey, sounds like a case of blaming the messenger. Scott abided by the agreements in place. Premier is the one that decided that the agreement for a MAP in fact is a price-fixing agreement. You can't blame Scott for exposing shoddy business practices.

I own two Premier scopes, one I bought back when they were new and had not yet developed a reputation that in their eyes made it appropriate to charge top dollar. I've always liked it. When I needed a new scope, I contacted Scott for another Premier. Hearing this, it <span style="font-style: italic">will</span> be my last. It will <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> be the last scope I buy from Scott.

This sounds like Premier deciding that they can afford to take down a very supportive dealer, because they figure that doing so will cow the others into following what is most likely an illegal price-fixing policy.

And if this thread reduces the resale price for my Premier scopes - so what? I'd rather know about these practices so I can choose a brand and vendor knowledgeably than sweep them under the rug in the interests of keeping my resale value. We all poke fun at gun rags that only publish glowing reviews - why would we want that here?

I find it telling that in the midst of losing a very major product line Scott exhibited distress at his inability to fulfill my order more than for the loss of the line.

 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

To echo what many here have said:

Scott, you run a standup business and are a real asset to the shooting community. I bought my PH from you two years ago, and while I like the scope a lot, I won't buy from them again unless they make this right with you. It's been a great scope so far, but that doesn't make up for their shitty, underhanded business practices.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

We here on the Hide are a "Band of Brothers"... screw with one, you have screwed with many.

I have no tolerance for dirty back door politics. I leave that to the politicians. Devaluation you say?? You better believe it.

Anyone that would do such actions, should, and most definately will be made to suffer the consequences of such actions.


They drew first blood...

DK
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Kool aid is tart. I will purchase another PR if needed, as I'm very satisfied with my 5x25. This is just business, and really shouldn't be publicly mentioned. I'm just saying.

The more this thread is read, I guess the less valued the scopes currently in the hands of normal guys like me, become. So, thanks the devaluation. Nothing like a good smear or two.

I mean for fuck's sake, look how many guys are already commenting, "I never have seen a PR, now never need too"....... this thread is unprofessional.

Good luck.</div></div>

I'm sure others here will agree when I say, you can take your opinion and shove it up your ass, along with your Premier.

Scott/Liberty Optics does their best to take care of 'Hide members and when something like this happens, it also <span style="font-style: italic">hurts</span> the Hide members.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I just ordered a Premier last week and wont see it for another week or so. This thread is not helping me justify the $$$$ I just dropped on it.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Atomic Lab Rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Isn't "Secret shopping" a normal way to ensure complaince with deler agreements and MAP? </div></div>

Secret shopping is fine. However, if something is found that they don't like, immediately suspending the dealer is not a good practice. A notice of need for compliance would have been accepted by Scott, I have no doubt.

It was the manner in which they chose to throw the dirt is what is not acceptable.

DK
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hiders,

Afterward, I called Chris Thomas from Premier on his cell phone five separate times and left him five messages, asking him to explain what he knew. To date, he has never responded.

AND

Finally, there is the human element here. Business is business, but in the not too distant past we fully backed and aggressively marketed and sold the Premier Heritage as a viable premium alternative in the tactical scope market, in every effort to ensure the success of the product’s introduction in the marketplace, at a time when few others would. We thought we had a good relationship with Premier and had earned it through hard work and loyalty.

</div></div>

Scott,

You showed a lot of class and grace with your restraint in this post. Some of us know just how much you helped out this company when they were on the brink. To not even get a phone call is completely unacceptable. While I have had good interactions with a couple of the employees of Premier, I also had a two minutes conversation with Chris while attempting to get my scope updated to the improved MTC setup. He was, in a word, a dick. I cut him slack that day, as everyone has bad days, but no more.

The Premier is a good scope, but so are S&B, Hensoldt, March, USO, etc....... What means as much to me as the scope is the dealer support after the sale and your support has been stellar. I think Chris and his distributor really fu**ed up here, and while I like the scopes, I won't purchase another. They want brand loyalty and exhibit none to their best selling dealer. You have done right by Hide members here and whatever other brands you pick up I am sure you will have good support.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Im sorry to hear this. They make nice scopes but with all this bullshit. I will never buy a product from them. Just because Scott hooked up a hide member/sting operation with a good deal and they pull out this map pricing. Screw them and now they think their gonna stay strong. Hahaha. They pretty much just pissed the whole hide off. Good luck ati. Your gonna need it
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mpardun</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>

Correction- they represent Badger Sport , not Badger Ordnance. [/quote]

I got it from their own www (maybe they made a mistake?):
Screenshot2011-05-07at74101AM.png
[/quote]

Apparently, ATI is a distributor for Badger Ordnance but, they are not marketed be GB Stumpp.

My apologies for any confusion.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lizzardking308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My prediction though is give it a month or so and all the fan boys here will be back sucking Premier dick bragging about how awesome they are. </div></div>

Well, they ARE good scopes, just not the only good ones out there.

Also it should be mentioned that a lot of other makers out there get butthurt over MAP; wasn't too long ago there was a drama-bomb over Liberty selling PST scopes below MAP, and I believe NF is very hard-nosed about their MAP pricing too.

Stuff like this happens all the time to internet businesses; this is how a buddy of mine's spa/pool filter store got screwed out of business. He was selling filters below MAP & one of the bigger retailers had a fit and "stung" him in a similar fashion. Ironically, he was selling at the same price as that bigger dealer (they got a special deal from the manufacturer that allowed them to discount below MAP). And to add insult to injury the larger retailer is now suing him for domain name rights as well as stealing content off his website (they're even using his pictures with his watermarks on their webpage).

In the old days if you had a little store and some other guy had a big store, big store guy would hire some goons to give you a back massage if he wanted you out of the way; now they either cry to the manufacturer or call their lawyer. Same **** different decade.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

And yet another "soap-opera" evolves with Premier being in the center.

There are many who felt that they got shafted, the first time around. And now it is "seeming" as though they are the 'shafters'. Either way, I'd say that this is not exactly the best way to conduct business.

Whereas, Scott definitely knows a thing or two about how to deal with customers. Look at the progress that he has made, and the steps of achievement he has taken to this point. Definitely on to something eh? Customer service, who'd-a-thunk-it?

And I also have to add, that the "false-inflating" of the price is somewhat detrimental to all you taxpayers down there in the States. Especially when the gov't has to pay the "market value" or some-such-rot. Someone else here will explain that better.

Liberty Optics.

Still the source. That's right folks, you heard it here first, on the 'Hide.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Scott,
I'm sorry to hear you are being punished be a f*ked up company for doing what you do best.
I have long known you to be a guy that has a passion for helping people (myself included) into the best optics they can possibly get in their personal situation.
The last deal I had with you was you getting me into a Premier that without your help I never would have been able to get.
The only reason that I haven't been back is that I left Premier a while back (they exhibited behavior then that I wanted nothing to do with, and I vote with my wallet and voice), and since then I have been using an dealing with USO almost exclusively and directly for my needs as a practical precision shooter. They represent wholly (to me at least) what a company in this business should be.

You as a dealer exemplify everything I believe in as well and with your values and principles you will go far, regardless of dickheads like ATI/PR.
This is not the first, nor last example of how these conglomerate distributors go against the real American business model. Other companies have gotten in bed with such folks and are the worse for it as well.

Since US Optics sells mainly "builds" I can see why they would be tough to keep on the shelf, but they are aligned with your values of CS. I think it would behoove you to look at maybe carrying a few of their models in the most popular configurations.

For "off the shelf" product, I think S&B is listening to the market and with the recent addition of US facilities I think they would be good product to carry. If the great relationship I have with USO were not there, S&B would be the scopes I'd be looking at.

Nightforce will never be an option for me personally after their zero stop BS of years back. They make quality stuff, but I want nothing to do with them or their product.

Anyway, I'm saddened to hear that they are f'king you over. Be true to yourself, it has taken you far and will continue to do so. The precision rifle market is actually a pretty small community and we recognize those that have our backs. I for one like having you out there doing what you do.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

From http://www.armament.com/:

"Armament Technology Incorporated specializes in professional-grade weapon sighting systems, including Thermal Weapon Sights, Optical Weapon Sights, and OEM Mounting solutions. Master Distributor for ELCAN Optical Technologies, Tenebraex Corporation and Badger Ordnance, Armament Technology is a major supplier to the North American Defense and Homeland Security markets."

I hope Badger Ordnance, who I have nothing but good feelings toward, will kick ATI to the curb.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I think we should refrain from bashing any particular product itself unless the product deserves it. This is about people and business practices.

Bad business decisions result in consequences usually, and my opinion this is what will happen with this decision on Premier's part.

To treat one of the first vendors who stepped out and pushed the product to a large mass such as the Hide this way speaks strongly of their philosophy. It is their right to choose any business model they want to.

It is also the consumers right to choose who and what products they want. I personally feel that this is a really bad business decision on their part. And the exposure to let 50K peeps see what your philosophy is and how a vendor who stood by your product when there were real credibility issues gets treated in return for that loyalty.

I say the chips will fall where they may, and we'll see how our Hide members will speak with their money.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

And I was so looking forward to the Light Tactical Scope. I just deleted Premier Reticles from my Internet favorites.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Let any smaller manufacturer also take heed-these rep companies may seem like the golden ticket when you are struggling but the second you sign on you lose control of your company.

I like how ATI "cc'ed" the Chris, at least they mentioned him.

Your Conclusion statement is spot on Scott. More power to you.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well Crap ... and I was going to purchase one for an expected rifle ... with that response from ATI ... I will never purchase a Premiere scope or ANYTHING from ATI--

I hope Hide members also <span style="color: #CC0000">"Boycott"</span> this behavior-- There are other optics that are as good or better out there.

I hope things work out for you guys. </div></div>
+1
In this sport we spend a LOT of money, they only way Premier will "hear" us is if we don't spend it on their product.
SScott
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I will never own a Premier scope after this, and will be telling every shooter I know what kind of manufacturer they will be dealing with if they buy one and need service of any kind. There is no room in America for this kind of asinine business model. When did we lose the understanding that once you transfer ownership of a product, whether to an individual or another business, they own it and can sell it for whatever price they desire(even at a loss, if they so desire)?
confused.gif
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

If they will screw the stocking dealer im scared of what they would do to me the consumer I guess they wont be sending one to me.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I have recommended Premier scopes to friends in the past. I will never do that again. Scott is a great guy to business with and always puts the customer first. He really helped get the Premier scopes off the ground and to treat him like this shows zero gratitude.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Scott, I echo everyone's statement here about the shitty way you and your company were treated. Sorry this has happened to you.

It's going to hurt PH tremendously. This has/will spread throughout the Community very fast and even their DOD contracts won't save them or their terrible reputation on the how they conduct business.

I was in the verge of pulling the trigger on a PH 3-15 NOT ANYMORE. I will now be looking at S&B, NF or USO for my next scope.

Good luck to you Sir, You are a stand-up guy!
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Well said Dagsta.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think we should refrain from bashing any particular product itself unless the product deserves it. This is about people and business practices.

Bad business decisions result in consequences usually, and my opinion this is what will happen with this decision on Premier's part.

To treat one of the first vendors who stepped out and pushed the product to a large mass such as the Hide this way speaks strongly of their philosophy. It is their right to choose any business model they want to.

It is also the consumers right to choose who and what products they want. I personally feel that this is a really bad business decision on their part. And the exposure to let 50K peeps see what your philosophy is and how a vendor who stood by your product when there were real credibility issues gets treated in return for that loyalty.

I say the chips will fall where they may, and we'll see how our Hide members will speak with their money. </div></div>
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hiders,

Track with me on this post, and read carefully.

It has been presented to us that your company has been offering Premier Reticles ‘Heritage’ Tactical riflescopes directly to consumers at pricing significantly below Minimum Advertised Price (MAP).

<span style="font-weight: bold">This behavior seriously undermines the value of the product in the eyes of the market and is particularly disruptive and damaging to the market distribution structure of Dealer and Stocking Dealer pricing.......</span>



First, we never violated MAP nor any other dealer agreement with ATI,

Second, the issue emerges that when it comes to pricing Premier products, MAP is really Minimum Selling Price,

<span style="font-style: italic">April 13, 2011

Dear Premier Heritage Tactical line Dealer:

You are receiving this email to inform you about a recent situation in the marketplace involving a serious breach of pricing protocol surrounding Premier Heritage Tactical riflescopes.


Specifically, a major national optics dealer engaged in a marketing endeavor they advertised as a “group buy” whereby they implied that participating individuals would be able to purchase Premier Tactical products at below Minimum Advertised Pricing. This type of practice is strictly prohibited as contravening the spirit of Minimum Advertised Pricing policy under the terms of Distributor and Dealer pricing. As such, the offending Dealer’s account with ATI has been suspended and their outstanding Purchase Orders will remain unfilled.

Please let us remind all Dealers that:

1) <span style="text-decoration: underline">Minimum Advertised Price is not a benchmark by which to offer a discounted price; it is the price the consumer should expect to pay.</span> We expect Premier Dealers to foster that concept by exhibiting a price on their advertising and marketing materials and websites, and that price should be not less than MAP. The practice of displaying statements such as “call for price” or “call for best price” is not deemed to be acceptable.

2) Any program or endeavor that offers implied discounts for those participating in a “group buy” will not be tolerated.

3) Dealers are fully responsible for updating price lists on their websites to reflect current Minimum Advertised Pricing.

The goal of this correspondence is to serve as a reminder that Premier Reticles Ltd. and Armament Technology Incorporated are very serious about the financial success of the products we distribute as well as the financial success of the Dealers we serve. <span style="text-decoration: underline">Premier products are ‘top of the market’ products that are fully capable of generating premium pricing in the market and consequently healthy profit margins for Dealers. Companies that do not see the value in this business model can expect the same consequence as that experienced by the national Dealer referenced above.</span>

Please take some time to ensure your full compliance with this policy; your continued success with Premier Heritage Tactical products is dependent upon it.

If you have any questions about the aforementioned, please contact us.

Best regards,


Andrew Webber President Armament Technology Incorporated

Chris Thomas
President
Premier Reticles Limited </span>


Finally, there is the human element here.

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Business is business[</span>, but in the not too distant past we fully backed and aggressively marketed and sold the Premier Heritage as a viable premium alternative in the tactical scope market, in every effort to ensure the success of the product’s introduction in the marketplace, at a time when few others would. We thought we had a good relationship with Premier and had earned it through hard work and loyalty. Apparently such means nothing as we were never contacted or warned directly that we were engaging in “damaging and disruptive behavior” when it came to selling Premier scopes to Hide members.
</div></div>

Correct me if I am not following -

1. You're an authorized dealer
2. The manufacturer has a MAP and has made it clear to all dealers that MAP is the minimum price to sell the product for.
3. You acknowledge that you violated this
4. You're surprised you've been cut off (and not sued - might want to check the fine print on your dealer agreement could be the discount margin x volume + legal + blue sky damage -> I know it would be if I wrote it)

Where did I go off the track?

MAP - price fixing / collusion is very common in Retail. In fact, it is the ideal pricing structure. Case in point since I was just speaking to a manufacturer yesterday - check out the price of 'Pillow Pets' some time.

All that good will you earned under the Business to Business section - that's where you go to them and say - hey MAP is dandy and all, and we'll honor it; but b/c we pulled your's out of the fire and we move a lot volume - our margin isn't like any other Joe Blow dealer - it is X.

If I am reading your post correctly I don't understand why you don't just post: We don't sell Premier b/c we violated the terms of our agreement with the manufacturer.


Good luck
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hiders,

Track with me on this post, and read carefully.

It has been presented to us that your company has been offering Premier Reticles ‘Heritage’ Tactical riflescopes directly to consumers at pricing significantly below Minimum Advertised Price (MAP).

<span style="font-weight: bold">This behavior seriously undermines the value of the product in the eyes of the market and is particularly disruptive and damaging to the market distribution structure of Dealer and Stocking Dealer pricing.......</span>



First, we never violated MAP nor any other dealer agreement with ATI,

Second, the issue emerges that when it comes to pricing Premier products, MAP is really Minimum Selling Price,

<span style="font-style: italic">April 13, 2011

Dear Premier Heritage Tactical line Dealer:

You are receiving this email to inform you about a recent situation in the marketplace involving a serious breach of pricing protocol surrounding Premier Heritage Tactical riflescopes.


Specifically, a major national optics dealer engaged in a marketing endeavor they advertised as a “group buy” whereby they implied that participating individuals would be able to purchase Premier Tactical products at below Minimum Advertised Pricing. This type of practice is strictly prohibited as contravening the spirit of Minimum Advertised Pricing policy under the terms of Distributor and Dealer pricing. As such, the offending Dealer’s account with ATI has been suspended and their outstanding Purchase Orders will remain unfilled.

Please let us remind all Dealers that:

1) <span style="text-decoration: underline">Minimum Advertised Price is not a benchmark by which to offer a discounted price; it is the price the consumer should expect to pay.</span> We expect Premier Dealers to foster that concept by exhibiting a price on their advertising and marketing materials and websites, and that price should be not less than MAP. The practice of displaying statements such as “call for price” or “call for best price” is not deemed to be acceptable.

2) Any program or endeavor that offers implied discounts for those participating in a “group buy” will not be tolerated.

3) Dealers are fully responsible for updating price lists on their websites to reflect current Minimum Advertised Pricing.

The goal of this correspondence is to serve as a reminder that Premier Reticles Ltd. and Armament Technology Incorporated are very serious about the financial success of the products we distribute as well as the financial success of the Dealers we serve. <span style="text-decoration: underline">Premier products are ‘top of the market’ products that are fully capable of generating premium pricing in the market and consequently healthy profit margins for Dealers. Companies that do not see the value in this business model can expect the same consequence as that experienced by the national Dealer referenced above.</span>

Please take some time to ensure your full compliance with this policy; your continued success with Premier Heritage Tactical products is dependent upon it.

If you have any questions about the aforementioned, please contact us.

Best regards,


Andrew Webber President Armament Technology Incorporated

Chris Thomas
President
Premier Reticles Limited </span>


Finally, there is the human element here.

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Business is business[</span>, but in the not too distant past we fully backed and aggressively marketed and sold the Premier Heritage as a viable premium alternative in the tactical scope market, in every effort to ensure the success of the product’s introduction in the marketplace, at a time when few others would. We thought we had a good relationship with Premier and had earned it through hard work and loyalty. Apparently such means nothing as we were never contacted or warned directly that we were engaging in “damaging and disruptive behavior” when it came to selling Premier scopes to Hide members.
</div></div>

Correct me if I am not following -

1. You're an authorized dealer
2. The manufacturer has a MAP and has made it clear to all dealers that MAP is the minimum price to sell the product for.
3. You acknowledge that you violated this
4. You're surprised you've been cut off (and not sued - might want to check the fine print on your dealer agreement could be the discount margin x volume + legal + blue sky damage -> I know it would be if I wrote it)

Where did I go off the track?

MAP - price fixing / collusion is very common in Retail. In fact, it is the ideal pricing structure. Case in point since I was just speaking to a manufacturer yesterday - check out the price of 'Pillow Pets' some time.

All that good will you earned under the Business to Business section - that's where you go to them and say - hey MAP is dandy and all, and we'll honor it; but b/c we pulled your's out of the fire and we move a lot volume - our margin isn't like any other Joe Blow dealer - it is X.

If I am reading your post correctly I don't understand why you don't just post: We don't sell Premier b/c we violated the terms of our agreement with the manufacturer.


Good luck </div></div>

Dude, MAP stands for Minimum ADVERTISED price, not minimum selling price. Big difference...
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Maybe I am the only one who thinks like this but I tend not to buy anything unless I can get somewhat of a deal. We all work hard for our money and I can't stand paying retail for anything. I talked to Scott several times when the Premiers first came out and just missed picking one up before their huge price increase. Once a distributor buys a scope from the mfg it should be up to them if they want to make $300 or $30 on the sale. As long as the price isn't advertised, I don't see a problem with it. (Yes I know all the business arguments). Sorry to hear about this Scott and I hope we can do some business in the future.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Dewd, as a guy that speaks to retailers and manufacturers on daily basis, MAP can truely be a minimum price that vendors shall not go below or they will stop receiving product.

Common widget not easily distinguishable and a highly elastic market - MAP means exactly what you say.

Unique product, relatively inelastic market MAP can easily mean - violate this and you're done as vendor.

People should pay more attention to this, it is the core reason for MAP:

<span style="font-style: italic">This behavior seriously undermines the value of the product in the eyes of the market and is particularly disruptive and damaging to the market distribution structure of Dealer and Stocking Dealer pricing.......</span>


For the record - I am not a PR fan, and I am not a fan of MAP or these business practices. However, this is how certain markets work.


Good luck
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I was really looking at a PR scope for my setup, now I'm glad I stuck with US Optics for it.

Burning the little guy because he chooses to try to move more of your product at a slightly lower price doesn't look very good. I mean, if Scott's willing to take a slight loss in profit per unit and hope the volume will make up for it, then more power to him. Seems like a win for everyone; consumer gets a good deal, dealer gets a good rep (creating more sales), distributor is able to rotate stock quicker, manufacturer gets more of their product out to the public.

Oh well, looks like I'll be sticking with USO for my future optics needs.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Im not a business man but I have never understood it. If you buy a scope (or any other item from a distributor) why do they care what you sell it for? They get their cash and you get to decide what is your appropriate markup for your business practices and ethics. Why should they care if you their scope is seen as a $3000 piece of glass or a $2500 piece of glass? Its not like its being sold out the door for a $100 and being compared to Barfka glass.

Stuff like this pisses me off, most of us our running our budgets tighter than ever and they are going to piss an moan about their image even though it does not affect their bottom line in any way. To me this just alientates a customer base that has more and more options everyday. I will never understand marketing strategy such as this. I would think that getting more of the glass in the hands of shooters at better prices would be a win for a company as it allows more people to see their product and generate interest.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

It is also the consumers right to choose who and what products they want. I personally feel that this is a really bad business decision on their part. And the exposure to let 50K peeps see what your philosophy is and how a vendor who stood by your product when there were real credibility issues gets treated in return for that loyalty.

I say the chips will fall where they may, and we'll see how our Hide members will speak with their money. </div></div>

This. Talk about shooting yourself in the ass in front of a huge chunk of the tactical market (hide members). Geez.
 
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I've known Scott for a long time and he has one of the best customer service records of almost anyone.

As far as this MAP garbage goes, it's about time we as consumers take a stand and boycott any company that blackmails and threatens dealers to make them part of the whole price gouging affair that so many manufacturers seem to be part of.

Maybe some people have too much money on their hands and don't care if they pay huge mark ups for products but for a good lot of us, saving an extra $100 or $200 on a scope means more bullets, training or other things we could spend the money on.

It would be one thing if they said please only list the MAP on your websites and catalogues and leave it at that, but nope they seem to be not happy with that and want to go full on evil.

The economy is tough right now for everyone except it seems greedy corporations, banks and people who take your taxes. I would bet most people are probably looking for a good deal

I stand firm in my rights as a consumer who is laying out my hard earned cash to try my best to negotiate and find the best deal I can when I wish to buy something.

I think we should make a list of companies that we all boycott and let them know why we boycott them and vote with our wallets. Eventually all the military contracts that have made the manufacturers all greedy and self important will be over and they will have to face the music when consumers no longer wish to buy their stuff.