Rifle Scopes We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

#101
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Scott,
you got set up and got screwed even though you were one of the strongest supporters of Premier Heritage when they were first coming to market. What Premier has done is inexcusable. You have been extremely good at support Sniper's Hide members and that means a lot to me. Premier just shot themselves in their foot. I'm on your side on this one.
Good luck.
 
#102
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Well this kinda sucks. I was looking at a Premier too. Guess it's Hensoldt or S&B now.
wink.gif
Sucks though, they look like they have a good product. Oh well, I'll live.
 
#103
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Norcal Phoenix</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you buy a scope (or any other item from a distributor) why do they care what you sell it for? They get their cash and you get to decide what is your appropriate markup for your business practices and ethics. Why should they care if you their scope is seen as a $3000 piece of glass or a $2500 piece of glass? </div></div>

<span style="font-style: italic">This behavior seriously undermines the value of the product in the eyes of the market and is particularly disruptive and damaging to the market distribution structure of Dealer and Stocking Dealer pricing.......</span>

For 'not a business guy' you sure do know how to call the critical question.

Not saying this is the case - just posing a thought:

If you want your new widget held in high regard by the market, and you know your going to make a widget that is going to be better than the average widget but may or may not be as good as the best widgets - it probably makes the most sense to price your widget at the top of the market and then fight to hold the line on price. Esp if within that particular market, a higher price generally indicates a higher quality widget. Target profit margins can be achieved by low volume and high margins + greater variable expense control, or low margin and high volume. It is easier to compete where there is less competition - like at the top. It is harder to claw your way up the food chain than slide down it.

Look how long a well known Oregon optics manufacturer rode a name as a reference. Use search to refresh yourself of what a struggle it has been for them to get on the right track and how everyone balks at the thought of $2k+ for one of their offerings.

Good luck
 
#104
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Kool aid is tart. I will purchase another PR if needed, as I'm very satisfied with my 5x25. This is just business, and really shouldn't be publicly mentioned. I'm just saying.

The more this thread is read, I guess the less valued the scopes currently in the hands of normal guys like me, become. So, thanks the devaluation. Nothing like a good smear or two.

I mean for fuck's sake, look how many guys are already commenting, "I never have seen a PR, now never need too"....... this thread is unprofessional.

Good luck.</div></div>

I'm sure others here will agree when I say, you can take your opinion and shove it up your ass, along with your Premier.

Scott/Liberty Optics does their best to take care of 'Hide members and when something like this happens, it also <span style="font-style: italic">hurts</span> the Hide members. </div></div>

Seriously? Regardless of my opinion, you went to the lowest level. Put your pitch fork down for a second, and quite being so emotionally attached.... ninja.
 
#105
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

The issue at hand is why Premier would IMMEDIATELY suspend Scott for 90 days, WITHOUT WARNING. That's a load of crap. Give a warning first. This could have been resolved by them sending Scott a letter advising him of what they saw, and telling him he can't do it anymore. But instead, Premier acted like the a bunch of scared soccer moms and went off the deep end with a knee-jerk reaction. God forbid they should actually have a rational response instead of black-listing one of their most dedicated dealers.

My next scope was coming down to either a Premier or S&B. I guess my mind has been made up for me. Schmidt&Bender here I come.
 
#106
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Scott, raw deal; you were punished for taking care of us, Hide members.

The real idiot here was Stumpp; if you can't beat the competition, get them eliminated as competition: it has been the loser's mantra forever.

This will definitely play a part in whether I buy a Light Hunter or not.
 
#108
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

First question:
Is PH rifle scopes still receiving the dealer dollar amount for their products from Liberty Optics?
2. MAP = Minimum Advertised Pricing?
3. Is LO making less per scope selling these scopes at a discounted rate?
4. Does PH think that the competion at this price range is nonexsistant?
The internet namely the hide in this case can deliver information to a great consumer base.
MZB brought up a interesting point about marketing in this country. ( free market isn't a reality)
I always though a product should demand a premium as a result of the quality or performance it delivered.

btw I have done business with LO and found them to be an example of solid pricing and customer service.

Rthur
 
#109
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

"I remembered Mr. Dean, as I initially quoted him a full MAP price and he pressed the issue asking if “there was any additional discounts available for Hide members”. So we took care of him,"

One word here, ENTRAPMENT.

It sounds like you did what you were supposed to do initially and then Mr. Dean kept hounding you to give him a lower than MAP price. Well just based on the above quote I will not support Premier, and they were going to be my next purchase. I guess I will wait a little longer for the Schmidt and Bender 3-20x50 to come out.
 
#110
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

So Mo_Zam_Beek you seem to think that price gouging your customers is a good thing, let me ask you this:

When you bought your last car, did you go to the most expensive dealership you could find and pay full retail price and full markup value for all the options without checking around for a better deal because of course if it costs more according to you it must be better?

Asking for someone to not advertise openly at a lower than specified price is one thing, trying to force everyone to only sell at a high price or else is wrong, and illegal in many states / countries.

Your argument about we must rip the customers off so they think it's a better product only works for the very uninformed. Once people get to studying and making up their minds objectively, quality and value for the money becomes very important.

A case in point, I use several different brands of scopes (and was thinking about a Premier till this came out). I used to buy IOR scopes for mid range ones as they offered excellent value for the money however recently they started subscribing to your stated ideas and started wanting stupid amounts of money and the value for the cost simply was not there, so they went off my list of scopes to buy as I might as well pay a little bit more and get a higher end scope that is better not because they charge more money for it but because the quality and features and build is really that much better.

Of course if you have money to burn and you want to be able to tell your friends I have a xxx that cost me a huge pile of money so it must be good, I'm not going to argue that with you, it's your choice.

In my case I'll look for the best quality at the best value from a dealer with good customer service who is willing to work with me a bit if possible and then I'll tell my friends that I got an excellent quality item at a great deal and they will be interested in looking at it as well because of the value for what you paid.
 
#114
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

The problem is this MAP business is legal. However, it shouldn't be. Everyone else sees MAP for what it is: PRICE FIXING! So why can't the Supreme Court?

I'm on Scott's side here. MAP is anti-freedom, anti-democracy and anti-capitalism. It smacks of FASCISM. Probably a spinoff of doing backroom deals with pocketed senators in cigar smoke filled rooms.

Plenty of other mfgs get along just fine without MAP, why can't Premier?

Scott, I'll take a set of Seekins rings and a scope base for my incoming rifle. About all I can do to help out.
 
#116
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Based on Scott's post, I will not do business with ATI or PR either. Loyalty still means something to me, and a company that will screw their most loyal distributor without warning and in a rather underhanded manner, is not going to be getting any of my money. We, as consumers, have the deciding vote in the market place because WE are the ones with the money.
 
#117
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Or maybe Frank can sure this Stump company for illegally using the Hide's name in order to destroy business for another business.

This is lawsuit worthy. If not then an injunction.
 
#118
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I bet Scott would never be a Premier dealer again, and I don't blame him. I am very glad that he will be picking up Schmidt & Bender.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniperaviator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Keep the discussion PROFESSIONAL. Maybe we can put enough pressure on Premier to change their policy (and reinstate Scott as a dealer). </div></div>
 
#120
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes



Another guy telling all his money spending scope buying friends to AVOID PH at all costs.. We are a small community and don't need a business who doesn't value their clients.. Period.
 
#121
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

ATI and Stump & Ass are nothing without products to distribute. Hit them where it hurts in the same place they seek to hurt us - the wallet!

Write to their clients and tell them you will not be buying their products so long as they are represented by ATI and Stump.

A template letter to all the clients of ATI and Stump & Ass

<span style="font-weight: bold">"Dear Sir,

It has come to my attention that ATI and their partner, Stump & Associates employ a strategy to effect an artificially high price on the products they represent to the market. Your company is on their client list unfortunately.

I view this behavior as nothing less than price gouging and contrary to the principles of free capitalism and a market economy. In these harsh economic and political times where money is tight and our rights under the 2nd Amendment are at risk any business policy that makes it even harder for the average American to bear arms is just plain wrong.

As a result and for the entire duration of the time that your products are represented by ATI and Stump & Associates I will be boycotting your business.

Regards,

[Your Name]</span>

Let those clients get a few thousand emails each and watch what happens...

The Hide - no better friend, no worse enemy...
 
#122
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I understand MAP. In the Google age, MAP allows bargans to be struck only if a buyer is willing to call around and put some effort in. Otherwise, whoever turns up cheapest on Froogle will get all the business, and in the end, this can end up queezing out small dealers who can't buy or sell the same volume as Cabelas or Wal-Mart or Botac.

BUT there is a very big difference between MAP and fixing actual selling prices. Price fixing and other anti-competition measures are ultimately bad for everyone.

If a company is depending on a higher price tag to sell its goods, it needs to work on its product. I think Premier misjudges its market by doig things like this. A person who is truly interested in top-notch optics is not going to be turned off by a lower price, and I would venture that the 1/10th of 1% of the shooting public who would even consider spending $2000+ on a scope will also know enough to spot quality at a competitive price.
 
#123
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Sorry to hear this Scott. I do not own any Premier products, now will I ever after seeing how they treated you. I will continue to buy all of the optics from you as well as suggest others to you. You provide excellent customer service and very good pricing. All this did was make me a stronger customer for your company.
 
#124
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

This is absolute shit. I was looking into buying one, but when I went by their stand at SHOT 2011, the guy behind the counter was an ass. More focused on the suit type of people walking around. I put it off as if it was just that guy, but after this story maybe the whole company is just fucked. Time to dump the dough into a USO scope now!!!
 
#126
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Well, all I can say as a guy who is currently in the market for a high end scope the field just got narrowed. Take Premier off the list and thank you for sharing this story.

Dishonesty in business is always the wrong path. At the end of the day the only thing you can drop back on is your integrity. Those guys are going to lose more business over this than they want to. It's a competitive market at the top and it doesn't take much to get knocked out of a comparison between Hensholdt, S&B, NF, and USO.
 
#127
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Have done business with Scott on a few occasions and will continue to do so. He's been great help offering insight and advice when asked and outstanding customer service. I will continue to give Scott my business but will no longer consider PH for any of my needs.
 
#128
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Definitely leaves a bad taste in the mouth regarding Premier.

I've done business with Scott previously, and will again. If he doesn't offer Premier, then Premier doesn't get my $'s.
 
#130
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

That's deeply unfortunate.

Any suggestions for a comparable reticle to the gen II xr from other manufacturers? I'm not sold on Horus, and would like something finer than the MLR, with a mil Christmas tree if possible.
 
#132
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

As a small shop myself I absolutely think this is crap! It is stuff like MAP and internal stings that will hurt us as much as the anti-gunners on the left.

If we cannot provide product to our customers at good prices they cannot/will not be able to buy quality kit. It is a constant battle for us to combat the min. order amounts, mandatory comercial store fronts and policies that hinder internet/e-commerce sales. As suppliers show their true colors its key we get the word out. There are to many other strong products available to deal with folks that have no loyality to the dealers. Especially since unless this is America and I should be able to sell or give away my product if I want.
 
#133
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

well i am glad i sold mine when i did. it was a very nice scope and had solid features but this is complete bs. loyalty is a huge deal. and like many others when all the rumors were flying about premier being broke and going belly up, scott stuck up for them and continued to promote their product. glad i sold it and went with the vortex. scott is a very stand up guy and has a great business. it appears just based of this post already they have lost more than 20-30 sales and hopefully lots more.

dont forget folks scott sells vortex razor and they are a very nice scope for a very good price
 
#134
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I am not in the loop on this, and am wondering if I am properly understanding what went down.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but it a nutshell, is this what went down?

Scott never violated any agreement about MAP. Which is minimum <span style="font-style: italic">advertised</span> price. But did what he has done since I have I known him, and bent over backwards to see to it that his customer got as much as possible for his dollar, and then followed it up with his phenomenal service, as usual.

Following what appears to be his business model, he focuses on maximizing value for his customer. In doing so, he pissed off another vendor, who finds it more important to maximize his own revenue per unit, by extracting more money from his customer, per sale.

So, instead of following free market/competition tradition, and trying to out compete Scott, thereby helping us the end user, this vendor goes crying to Premier, saying that instead of giving a better buying experience for my customers, I want to be able to continue taking more money per unit from my customers so I need you (Premier) to go and yank the rug out from under Scott.

Since Scott kicks my ass with his service, and sees to it that the end user gets more value when dealing with him, and I want to charge the customer more per unit, I want you to see to it that this option is removed from Scott.

Screw the customer, screw the free market, I want to be able to pocket more from my customers, and with Scott being to willing to pocket less, while still providing better service, all the customers are going to him. So, let's just kick Scott out of the loop and the end user wont have the option of going to the better vendor and will be forced to take the fucking I like to give them

Is this basically it?
 
#135
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I want to start off by saying that anyone who has ever even talked to Scott knows he's a stand-up guy. Further, what was done to Scott by ATI/Premier/Stumpp was underhanded at the least and downright shitty at best. This is no way to treat a dealer that put so much into making Premier a name in our households.

That said many of you seem to be confusing Premier's treatment of its dealers and treatment of its customers which are two completely different relationships. Further, some seem to be extrapolating Premier's treatment of Scott is reflective of the quality of product they build, a definite falsehood.

The fact of the matter here is, everyone posting is preaching to the choir and if you think your going to be doing business with S&B, or just about any other optics company because of their superior policies, think again.

MAP will continue until people stop bitching on boards and write these companies personally to tell them what you think. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt"> Premier, Schmidt, Vortex, Nightforce, IOR, you name it they all have MAP policies and will all act in the same manner if they find those policies have been violated.</span></span> SO until people start exercising their power as consumers by voicing their opinions directly to these companies and refusing to buy new scopes MAP will go on.

SC
 
#136
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

The bullshit on this thread is amazing.

I fully support MAP, and I think that if Liberty Optics printed a lower price on an invoice, then Liberty screwed up. Special discounts like for the Hide should be done only over the phone, or in company coupons. (ie, enter "ILOVESH" for a 10% discount on your order, etc etc)

MAP keeps product value up for companies, and it seems just about everyone on here is a consumer, no inventors/product developers/business managers. Yall need to see it from the other side of the coin, below MAP pricing HURTS THE COMPANY AND THE PRODUCT. Dropping the end price that comes out of your wallet, great, thats nice, but the product needs to <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">SEEM like it cost what the company wants it to cost</span></span>.



NOW, having said that, I think that it's even bigger bullshit that

a. Premier would run a sting acting as a Hide member
b. Premier would terminate your relationship, due to giving DISCRETE AND CONFIDENTIAL pricing to an individual in a conversation.

^-- Not the same as violating MAP, you guys shouldn't have printed the lower price, but thats a screwup, you didnt try to undermine the market, which printed violations of MAP actually do.

Theres a difference between Minimum Advertisted Price and Minimum Price. They can only control one, the store controls the other.



Sorry about their zero-mistakes policy, you made a TINY error, and they held you to it; but hey, there are more scopes out there to sell.
 
#138
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Scott/LO,

I don't blame you for not wanting to be associated with PH after being being treated this way.

I lost heart with PR after seeing the fiasco of them selling the second batch of scopes at a lower price and delivering them before the guys who had prepaid full price already but hadn't received their's yet.I don't remember all the facts or excuses but either way it didn't sit well with me.

I thought their huge price increase and the ridiculous $800 fee for a Horus reticle was absurd on top of "alleged" lackluster reliability for such a expensive scope.Then there's those stupid 6 mils knobs,Oh I better not get into that,LOL.

I like the way you take care of us and I'd rather give my business to dealers that strive to give the average guy at least some kind of discount.I hate paying MAP and try to avoid it as much as possible.

I'll be calling you again in the future for sure but I'm pretty sure I'll never buy A PH
 
#139
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Scott,

I am glad you shared this. Many have mentioned this and they are correct, this kind of thing goes against free markets and capitalism and wreaks of Marxist tendencies. This ought to be a wake up call for all of us. There is so much anti capitalism stuff in this country we don't even know what liberty, freedom and free markets really are anymore. We have got to start standing up to this stuff when we see it and try to make a difference.

There is a valid importance to MAP for internet use IMO but true MAP policies and pricing fixing are 2 completely different things and ATI and PR crossed the line.

Strike 1. He admitted you didn't specifically break the MAP rules but still suspended you.

Strike 2. No warning for a high quality dealer like LO that has had great impact in helping PR in the past?

Strike 3. Lying about the Hide membership and specifically pushing for a discount after the proper price was given, which satisfies any MAP policy I have seen, is entrapment and very poor business.

I have never bought from Scott at LO before but have heard nothing but very positive reviews about him on every forum I visit. I have a great relationship with another vendor but will be buying from Scott in the future to try and help him out of this situation.

I love PR scopes! They are truly top tier IMO. Their tracking is the best I have seen. I was especially looking forward to their LT series. If they ended up meeting the hype they were likely to replace every scope I have. A perfect blend of features, weight, and price IMO. I had intent for 2 LT's as soon as they were available. I had even started a custom reticle conversation with PR and was willing to pay the extra cost associated when the LT line came out.

I will now be looking for other options in the short term with a strong hope that this thread serves as a wake up call for PR and they get their heads screwed on straight.

Learn how to treat your customers

Understand that quality and performance should set the price not price fixing

Make this mess right with LO!

Hang in there Scott.
 
#140
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The more this thread is read, I guess the less valued the scopes currently in the hands of normal guys like me, become. So, thanks the devaluation. Nothing like a good smear or two.

I mean for fuck's sake, look how many guys are already commenting, "I never have seen a PR, now never need too"....... this thread is unprofessional.

Good luck. </div></div>

Honestly, I, and many others, couldn't give a flying fornication if your "investment" in a brand takes a dive to zero.

That is your problem and no one elses. If the value of the product you bought is being artificially inflated, the market will eventually find out and correct itself. That you bought at the height of the bubble is no one's problem other than yours.

Whining, IMO, is unprofessional.
 
#141
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The bullshit on this thread is amazing.

I fully support MAP, and I think that if Liberty Optics printed a lower price on an invoice, then Liberty screwed up. Special discounts like for the Hide should be done only over the phone, or in company coupons. (ie, enter "ILOVESH" for a 10% discount on your order, etc etc)

MAP keeps product value up for companies, and it seems just about everyone on here is a consumer, no inventors/product developers/business managers. Yall need to see it from the other side of the coin, below MAP pricing HURTS THE COMPANY AND THE PRODUCT. Dropping the end price that comes out of your wallet, great, thats nice, but the product needs to <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">SEEM like it cost what the company wants it to cost</span></span>.



NOW, having said that, I think that it's even bigger bullshit that

a. Premier would run a sting acting as a Hide member
b. Premier would terminate your relationship, due to giving DISCRETE AND CONFIDENTIAL pricing to an individual in a conversation.

^-- Not the same as violating MAP, you guys shouldn't have printed the lower price, but thats a screwup, you didnt try to undermine the market, which printed violations of MAP actually do.

Theres a difference between Minimum Advertisted Price and Minimum Price. They can only control one, the store controls the other.



Sorry about their zero-mistakes policy, you made a TINY error, and they held you to it; but hey, there are more scopes out there to sell. </div></div>

MAP is an ARTIFICIAL product valuation and market manipulation.

Products that need it are those that are unable to stand on their own against competitors.

We are consumers, and as such have the final say in a product's worth to the market. As such, we don't have to see a GD thing from the point of view of the inventor/manufacturer/marketer/product manager/bean counter.
 
#142
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydro556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not in the loop on this, and am wondering if I am properly understanding what went down.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but it a nutshell, is this what went down?

Scott never violated any agreement about MAP. Which is minimum <span style="font-style: italic">advertised</span> price. But did what he has done since I have I known him, and bent over backwards to see to it that his customer got as much as possible for his dollar, and then followed it up with his phenomenal service, as usual.

Following what appears to be his business model, he focuses on maximizing value for his customer. In doing so, he pissed off another vendor, who finds it more important to maximize his own revenue per unit, by extracting more money from his customer, per sale.

So, instead of following free market/competition tradition, and trying to out compete Scott, thereby helping us the end user, this vendor goes crying to Premier, saying that instead of giving a better buying experience for my customers, I want to be able to continue taking more money per unit from my customers so I need you (Premier) to go and yank the rug out from under Scott.

Since Scott kicks my ass with his service, and sees to it that the end user gets more value when dealing with him, and I want to charge the customer more per unit, I want you to see to it that this option is removed from Scott.

Screw the customer, screw the free market, I want to be able to pocket more from my customers, and with Scott being to willing to pocket less, while still providing better service, all the customers are going to him. So, let's just kick Scott out of the loop and the end user wont have the option of going to the better vendor and will be forced to take the fucking I like to give them

Is this basically it? </div></div>
Pretty much
 
#143
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

A quick glance at this thread and the out pouring of support for Scott tells me that whichever top tier scope company signs up with Scott first is going to do a TON of business very quickly. I have my money waiting...
 
#144
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Asshole compaines should go out of business. I will never own an optic from a company that does this to a dealer. I prefer S&B anyway...
 
#146
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

The problem isn't JUST Premier or their dealer/distributor network. This happens to be one of the more extreme cases, and will end up causing some speed bumps in Scott and Premier's businesses. The real problem though is corporate America. We don't live in capitalist America anymore. It is easy to complain and bitch about what these big companies are doing to us, but they keep rolling... The power still lies with the people, unfortunately it seems that not enough care anymore. For every person who thinks this is shitty business on the part of Premier, there are 10 who want to be cool and have the same scope the USMC uses... Go figure, its the same WalMart, eBay, PayPal story all over again, someone gets big enough and they call the shots, the sheeple with follow all it takes is some marketing
 
#147
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Ouch, this is going to get ugly for Premier. In a way I almost feel bad for Premier. Almost.

Good for you Scott, way to do the right thing.
 
#149
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hiders,

Track with me on this post, and read carefully.

It has been presented to us that your company has been offering Premier Reticles ‘Heritage’ Tactical riflescopes directly to consumers at pricing significantly below Minimum Advertised Price (MAP).

<span style="font-weight: bold">This behavior seriously undermines the value of the product in the eyes of the market and is particularly disruptive and damaging to the market distribution structure of Dealer and Stocking Dealer pricing.......</span>



First, we never violated MAP nor any other dealer agreement with ATI,

Second, the issue emerges that when it comes to pricing Premier products, MAP is really Minimum Selling Price,

<span style="font-style: italic">April 13, 2011

Dear Premier Heritage Tactical line Dealer:

You are receiving this email to inform you about a recent situation in the marketplace involving a serious breach of pricing protocol surrounding Premier Heritage Tactical riflescopes.


Specifically, a major national optics dealer engaged in a marketing endeavor they advertised as a “group buy” whereby they implied that participating individuals would be able to purchase Premier Tactical products at below Minimum Advertised Pricing. This type of practice is strictly prohibited as contravening the spirit of Minimum Advertised Pricing policy under the terms of Distributor and Dealer pricing. As such, the offending Dealer’s account with ATI has been suspended and their outstanding Purchase Orders will remain unfilled.

Please let us remind all Dealers that:

1) <span style="text-decoration: underline">Minimum Advertised Price is not a benchmark by which to offer a discounted price; it is the price the consumer should expect to pay.</span> We expect Premier Dealers to foster that concept by exhibiting a price on their advertising and marketing materials and websites, and that price should be not less than MAP. The practice of displaying statements such as “call for price” or “call for best price” is not deemed to be acceptable.

2) Any program or endeavor that offers implied discounts for those participating in a “group buy” will not be tolerated.

3) Dealers are fully responsible for updating price lists on their websites to reflect current Minimum Advertised Pricing.

The goal of this correspondence is to serve as a reminder that Premier Reticles Ltd. and Armament Technology Incorporated are very serious about the financial success of the products we distribute as well as the financial success of the Dealers we serve. <span style="text-decoration: underline">Premier products are ‘top of the market’ products that are fully capable of generating premium pricing in the market and consequently healthy profit margins for Dealers. Companies that do not see the value in this business model can expect the same consequence as that experienced by the national Dealer referenced above.</span>

Please take some time to ensure your full compliance with this policy; your continued success with Premier Heritage Tactical products is dependent upon it.

If you have any questions about the aforementioned, please contact us.

Best regards,


Andrew Webber President Armament Technology Incorporated

Chris Thomas
President
Premier Reticles Limited </span>


Finally, there is the human element here.

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Business is business[</span>, but in the not too distant past we fully backed and aggressively marketed and sold the Premier Heritage as a viable premium alternative in the tactical scope market, in every effort to ensure the success of the product’s introduction in the marketplace, at a time when few others would. We thought we had a good relationship with Premier and had earned it through hard work and loyalty. Apparently such means nothing as we were never contacted or warned directly that we were engaging in “damaging and disruptive behavior” when it came to selling Premier scopes to Hide members.
</div></div>

Correct me if I am not following -

1. You're an authorized dealer
2. The manufacturer has a MAP and has made it clear to all dealers that MAP is the minimum price to sell the product for.
3. You acknowledge that you violated this
4. You're surprised you've been cut off (and not sued - might want to check the fine print on your dealer agreement could be the discount margin x volume + legal + blue sky damage -> I know it would be if I wrote it)

Where did I go off the track?

MAP - price fixing / collusion is very common in Retail. In fact, it is the ideal pricing structure. Case in point since I was just speaking to a manufacturer yesterday - check out the price of 'Pillow Pets' some time.

All that good will you earned under the Business to Business section - that's where you go to them and say - hey MAP is dandy and all, and we'll honor it; but b/c we pulled your's out of the fire and we move a lot volume - our margin isn't like any other Joe Blow dealer - it is X.

If I am reading your post correctly I don't understand why you don't just post: We don't sell Premier b/c we violated the terms of our agreement with the manufacturer.


Good luck </div></div>

Correct me if I am wrong but MP is not legl in the "free market economy" hence the MAP policies. In a MAP dispute several years ago I believe that the manufacturers can not tell you what you sell your product for but they can choose to fill or not fill your orders in a timely manner. The minimum advertised price is exactly that. If one did a search they could not find a price lower than MAP at an authorized dealer. Once contact was made the dealer could either offer "extras" or lower the price as they saw fit. I believe NightForce has MAP pricing hence the dispute with SWFA. They could not keep SWFA from advertising for less but they could delay the shipment of product indefinately.

PR is hitting at their base support and when times got/get tough they need to remeber where that support starts and ends.

I was told that the Marines just ran a trails and the new Leupold Mark 8 may be/is the new Marine Corp goto sniper optics for the future....anyone else hear this or is it just net rumors?

If that is true PR may have tough times ahead with alienating it's base support.

Pat
 
#150
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

wow, what huge mistake on ATI's part, and that dick bag that set scott up. not a very smart thing to do, by pissing off the hide community. we all spend ALOT of hard earned money on this lifestyle that we live. my cash will in no way, go into any of there pockets ever. bad business, is bad business and karma is such a mega bitch!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

gr8fuldoug
Rifle Scopes New GPO Centuri Riflescopes
Replies
0
Views
155
gr8fuldoug
gr8fuldoug
gr8fuldoug
GPO Centuri Riflescopes
Replies
2
Views
128
gr8fuldoug
gr8fuldoug
gr8fuldoug
Optics We are Now an Authorized Arken Riflescope Dealer
Replies
0
Views
955
gr8fuldoug
gr8fuldoug
gr8fuldoug
We are Now an Authorized Arken Riflescope Dealer
Replies
0
Views
467
gr8fuldoug
gr8fuldoug
powerspc
SOLD Leupold DAGR (Dual Aperture Gunsight Riflescope) - $3,800
Replies
0
Views
192
powerspc
powerspc
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Merch
Alerts