Rifle Scopes We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

#201
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CRab</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Exactly...ATI didn't act in a vacuum...

</div></div>

I disagree with that guess completely. I think ATI did.

You two didn't seem to have the time to read my full post above, so I'll say it again:

<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">The fact that Premier was CC'd on the Termination Notice email and Premier hasn't yet responded to Liberty makes it sound like they heard about this the same time Liberty did.</span></span></span> </div></div>

In the first post on the thread Scott Berish said, "The pretext for this suspension was that a customer at the Premier Reticles booth at the recent NRA show unveiled a scope with an invoice from us that “shocked and embarrassed” Premier Reticles staff and another Premier Reticles dealer at the show. The offending invoice was then sent to ATI and upon obtaining it Ted Milner said everyone got “mad as f**k” there and shortly thereafter the hammer came down. This was on the same day the suspension letter was dated, April 29."
 
#202
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... and I havent heard a word about Premier trying to apologize for ATI's behaviour..
</div></div>

Yes, but they haven't backed ATI either.

<span style="font-size: 17pt">I fully expected Premier to return LOs phone calls & hop on this thread and say,

"Hang on everyone, we just learned about this situation, stand by, working on it."

</span>
But until they say SOMETHING one way or the other, you can't blame them for this. For all we know, they're about to fire ATI and find a new distributor. </div></div>

You figured out how to write with bigger fonts, very cool and annoying..!

The letter was sent to Liberty on 29th of April, with cc to Premier CEO, so they've had more than one week to reply to Scott or this situation whatsoever.

So add "slow" to my previous comments about Premier then..
 
#203
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ut755ln</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the first post on the thread Scott Berish said, "The pretext for this suspension was that a customer at the Premier Reticles booth at the recent NRA show unveiled a scope with an invoice from us that “shocked and embarrassed” Premier Reticles staff and another Premier Reticles dealer at the show. The offending invoice was then sent to ATI and upon obtaining it Ted Milner said everyone got “mad as f**k” there and shortly thereafter the hammer came down. This was on the same day the suspension letter was dated, April 29." </div></div>

Yes, but just because someone makes their boss "mad as f**k" doesn't mean they get fired.

Privates make everyone above them "mad as f**k", but we don't chapter them out of the army on the first offense (excluding EXTREME cases of misconduct).

Just because Premier was mad doesn't mean they told ATI to fire Liberty. It means Premier went and yelled at someone. And since they didn't yell at Liberty, the only other to chew out is ATI.
 
#204
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I did in fact read your entire post.

I just don't believe that Premier was not aware of the plan before it was executed.

Professionally it's common practice to CC several folks when sending an important email. I do it every day, it's a "paper" trail. It also notifies the recipient of who else is aware...this is common sense.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CRab</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Exactly...ATI didn't act in a vacuum...

</div></div>

I disagree with that guess completely. I think ATI did.

You two didn't seem to have the time to read my full post above, so I'll say it again:

<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">The fact that Premier was CC'd on the Termination Notice email and Premier hasn't yet responded to Liberty makes it sound like they heard about this the same time Liberty did.</span></span></span> </div></div>
 
#206
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

You figured out how to write with bigger fonts, very cool and annoying..!

</div></div>

Bigger fonts made people actually read my post before quoting or replying to me.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The letter was sent to Liberty on 29th of April, with cc to Premier CEO, so they've had more than one week to reply to Scott or this situation whatsoever.

So add "slow" to my previous comments about Premier then.. </div></div>


As for one lousy week, thats nothing. I'd bet it takes quite a bit longer than that to fire your sole distributor and find someone completely new to sell your entire multimillion dollar product line. All the legalities in that firing would definitely require a lawyer to review, so ATI doesn't come back after Premier.

Premiers response to this has to be flawless, both to ATI and Liberty, so one week is not much time at all to square this away.
 
#207
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MtGoat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Correct me if I am wrong but MP is not legl in the "free market economy" hence the MAP policies.
Pat </div></div>

Pat this a great question and I think a source of confusion in this thread.

As I understand it, illegal collusion would be if 4 of the 5 top manufacturers came together and set price so as to create a scheme that injured the 5th or in some way cheated / defrauded the consumer.

That isn't what is happening here.

As I understand the situation we have manufacturer A selling to stocking dealer B under the terms of a non exclusive agreement to represent manufacturer A. That is a private agreement that is not subject to anti trust laws.

We'd need to read what the agreement actually states to know for sure, but the strong inference from the portion of the email in the OP to the stocking dealers effectively said - if you want to sell our goods - you need to charge MAP. It is also likely that the agreement specifically states that no notice of termination is required and that such termination can be effectuated without cause or for minimal cause. There may even be some form of default and remedy provision within the agreement favoring the manufacturer.

General thoughts:

A) Everyone that is bagging on PR - how many of you have invested in your own company and gone out and set your own nuts on the line? How many of you same folks bemoan US companies for going off shore? Or US manufactured product market erosion b/c of perceived failures in trade regs (dumping of steel or timber come to mind). Ask yourself - given the narrowness of the market at the top, and given the fledgling nature of PR's endeavor, coupled with some of the rockiness they have experienced - wouldn't expect them to enforce MAP in an effort to guarantee success? Be consistent in your thoughts about American business - PR has the right to do this and the right to enforce it. Don't like it, don't buy it.

B) Someone hit the nail on the head - in essence, strong enforcement of MAP generally favors a product that is not capable of securing the same value in the market place if relegated to pure competitive forces.

C) Personally, I think the OP should be altered to reflect the fact that it is very possible PR IS in the right on this matter.


*I am not an attorney*

Good luck
 
#208
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We'd need to read what the agreement actually states to know for sure</div></div>

yep.
 
#209
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

You're probably right about that, time will tell - I hope Premier gets some insight to the reactions from SH members on this particular case. And time is unfortunately not working in their favor right now.

I can understand "minimum advertising pricing" to keep certain levels of the product - but I cannot accept that anyone should dictate any special offerings, its for Liberty to decide what margins they can, or can not survive on in the end as I see it. Free market rules.
 
#211
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

the fact that it is very possible PR IS in the right on this matter.

</div></div>

^ Exactly.

Judgement should await Premiers response to this whole thing.

When Premier comes out and says something, then we'll know.
 
#212
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

If MAP is there, as alluded to earlier with the Ford Mustang analogy, to keep prices the same for all dealers, then MAP is simply a way around "price fixing." If a business has to advertise a minimum price then gets into hot water for selling, but not advertsing, at a lower price, how is that not price fixing?

PR is a high end company that sells to those with higher ended budgets. The average "joes" that cannot afford a PR stating "I will never buy PR" likely makes PR roll their eyes. They have enough market share and other dealers so dumping LO (temporarily it appears) likely does them no harm. I don't expect PR to come here and comment at all.

 
#213
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MtGoat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Correct me if I am wrong but MP is not legl in the "free market economy" hence the MAP policies.
Pat </div></div>

Pat this a great question and I think a source of confusion in this thread.

As I understand it, illegal collusion would be if 4 of the 5 top manufacturers came together and set price so as to create a scheme that injured the 5th or in some way cheated / defrauded the consumer.

That isn't what is happening here.

As I understand the situation we have manufacturer A selling to stocking dealer B under the terms of a non exclusive agreement to represent manufacturer A. That is a private agreement that is not subject to anti trust laws.

We'd need to read what the agreement actually states to know for sure, but the strong inference from the portion of the email in the OP to the stocking dealers effectively said - if you want to sell our goods - you need to charge MAP. It is also likely that the agreement specifically states that no notice of termination is required and that such termination can be effectuated without cause or for minimal cause. There may even be some form of default and remedy provision within the agreement favoring the manufacturer.

General thoughts:

A) Everyone that is bagging on PR - how many of you have invested in your own company and gone out and set your own nuts on the line? How many of you same folks bemoan US companies for going off shore? Or US manufactured product market erosion b/c of perceived failures in trade regs (dumping of steel or timber come to mind). Ask yourself - given the narrowness of the market at the top, and given the fledgling nature of PR's endeavor, coupled with some of the rockiness they have experienced - wouldn't expect them to enforce MAP in an effort to guarantee success? Be consistent in your thoughts about American business - PR has the right to do this and the right to enforce it. Don't like it, don't buy it.

B) Someone hit the nail on the head - in essence, strong enforcement of MAP generally favors a product that is <span style="font-weight: bold">not capable of securing the same value in the market place </span>if relegated to pure competitive forces.

C) Personally, I think the OP should be altered to reflect the fact that it is very possible PR IS in the right on this matter.


*I am not an attorney*

Good luck </div></div>

To summarize and please correct me if I am wrong. MAP is used to secure a price for a product that is not worth said price?
 
#214
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If MAP is there, as alluded to earlier with the Ford Mustang analogy, to keep prices the same for all dealers, then MAP is simply a way around "price fixing." If a business has to advertise a minimum price then gets into hot water for selling, but not advertsing, at a lower price, how is that not price fixing?

</div></div>


i'm no expert but i believe price fixing would be if multiple manufactures got together and decided to keep their prices at a certain point, not when a manufacture tells a reseller what they can sell their product for.
 
#215
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If MAP is there, as alluded to earlier with the Ford Mustang analogy, to keep prices the same for all dealers, then MAP is simply a way around "price fixing." If a business has to advertise a minimum price then gets into hot water for selling, <span style="color: #FF0000">but not advertsing</span>, at a lower price, how is that not price fixing?

</div></div>

That's the thing, Liberty Optics technically DID advertise a lower price, accidently and only slightly, but putting that price on the guys invoice.

And you can't say its not advertising, since its obviously made it around the internet.
laugh.gif
 
#217
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: proneshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The more this thread is read, I guess the less valued the scopes currently in the hands of normal guys like me, become. So, thanks the devaluation. Nothing like a good smear or two.

I mean for fuck's sake, look how many guys are already commenting, "I never have seen a PR, now never need too"....... this thread is unprofessional.

Good luck. </div></div>

Honestly, I, and many others, couldn't give a flying fornication if your "investment" in a brand takes a dive to zero.

That is your problem and no one elses. If the value of the product you bought is being artificially inflated, the market will eventually find out and correct itself. That you bought at the height of the bubble is no one's problem other than yours.

Whining, IMO, is unprofessional. </div></div>

Hey Ninja, I've owned one for two years, and love it. Now run along and get me a sandwich...or a tall glass of STFU.
 
#218
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If MAP is there, as alluded to earlier with the Ford Mustang analogy, to keep prices the same for all dealers, then MAP is simply a way around "price fixing." If a business has to advertise a minimum price then gets into hot water for selling, <span style="color: #FF0000">but not advertsing</span>, at a lower price, how is that not price fixing?

</div></div>

That's the thing, Liberty Optics technically DID advertise a lower price, accidently and only slightly, but putting that price on the guys invoice.

And you can't say its not advertising, since its obviously made it around the internet.
laugh.gif
</div></div>

How the hell is a price on a invoice considered a "Advertisement".
 
#219
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

There seem to be alot of members here that have great deficiencies in logical deduction or just like to hear themselves bitch. So one more time: <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 11pt">Premier, Schmidt, Vortex, Nightforce, IOR, you name it, they all have MAP policies and will all act in the same manner if they find those policies have been violated.</span></span>

So all of you that are saying "F*ck Premier my money's going to S&B" are just feeding another beast rife with MAP mentality.

SC
 
#220
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
How the hell is a price on a invoice considered a "Advertisement". </div></div>

It doesn't have to be printed on a document specifically intended as an "advertisement" to be "advertising".

If I get a great price on a scope somewhere, scan my receipt, and post it here on the forum, THAT RECEIPT IS ADVERTISING.

Yall would rush to the guy I bought it from, and everyone would want to get the great deal price.





When describing something, pick specific terms people. Advertising and an advertisement are two different things.





_
 
#221
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Two things off-topic.

1 - This thread has 200 some replies in 4 hours, gotta be a record?

2 - What was "the nunya comment" that some peole are talking about? I haven't heard that story, and I asked in the Shout Box and now the Box is a blank gray square on my screen, maybe the admin blocked me or something, so just PM if you know/have a link to the story.
 
#222
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes


I am offering low dollar bids on all PR 3x15's and 5x25's. I don't care if the box is missing, damaged, or even IF there aren't parallax markings. I SHOULD reduce my offer by 25%, but won't, as I know how hard it is to get rid of these pieces...let me know.
 
#223
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That's the thing, Liberty Optics technically DID advertise a lower price, accidently and only slightly, but putting that price on the guys invoice.

And you can't say its not advertising, since its obviously made it around the internet.
laugh.gif
</div></div>

While I understand your line of reasoning I don't agree with it; even if they had used the "coupon" method (ie, SSHIDE = 10%) on the receipt I highly doubt the powers that be would go "...oh, that's okay." Especially since the receipt would show just a scope purchase and nothing else.

It's not that he gave a discount; lots of dealers give discounts. It's that he gave too big of one for their liking.
 
#224
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I do not see where scott has violated any map pricing rule. He didnt advertise his pricing anywhere except on the CUSTOMERS reciept. Ati & the suckass vendor should be ashamed of how they have represented premier reticle. I was going to order a premier recticle scope in the near future. I was unsure of what vendor I was gonna use, until today. As of today, I choose to take my business down the road, first stop liberty optics web site. The only thing I blame premier optics for is surrounding themselves with a bunch of dickwads.
 
#225
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rntobey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only thing I blame premier optics for is surrounding themselves with a bunch of dickwads. </div></div>

Lots of scope manufacturer's use MAP; nightforce, S&B, Vortex leupie etc etc. So while I agree with your sentiment don't think that other scope makers are above doing similar things.
 
#226
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Scott did nothing wrong. He did not list on hist site lower than MAP, Call me for Better pricing, etc etc..

He never has posted here a price below MAP and when called for a price he gave MAP. Only after the person begged for a better deal and used the Hide as a reference did he offer a better deal.

That is not breaking MAP, PR & ATI can go to hell.

I was about to order one as I wanted the GenII XR and the US Optics Gen II XR I have read is not the same so PR it was for me. Now I am going to order a US Optics or S&B and says screw the Gen II just because of the Dick move they made.

It was not like Scott was the only dealer giving discounts. Having ordered an S&B scope over a year ago I can tell you I paid way under MAP and plenty of dealers were willing to undercut the next guy. And this is not because of the Hide many of the dealers I found outside of the hide.

Its a hard market to be a dealer in and they just made a huge mistake by going after such a respected company and person. I had not purchased from scott before but in my recent research for my next scope many have said his customer service is unmatched so soon as he adds S&B and maybe US optics to his list he will be getting my next order
 
#227
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I think there's a much safer way to handle this as a business. You explain to the customer what's required under MAP, charge them MAP, put MAP on the receipt, and place a "refund" check in the box with the product.

Problem solved.

As for Premier. I may only be one individual, but they'll never be calling me a customer.

 
#228
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Like Premier wasn't aware of Scott's pricing for the past few years??? All fine and dandy when he is needed; but now...I am afraid it's gonna take more then an apology to fix this!
 
#229
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

"I was gonna pull the trigger on a PR....", " I was getting ready to buy a PR...", "I'm going SB now..." blah blah blah. All bullshit troiling IMO. Same shit as, "man, good snag! If I was only sooner.." or " God, someone please buy this before I jizz in my pants!". Retarded.
 
#231
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Im really more interesed on how this thread is going to affect Premiers sales? With this forum being ranked #1 among tactical and long range shooting on the internet, I would say most sales start off right here on Snipers Hide for Premier.

With everthing else in the world going up in price from the grocery store to the gas tank, Premier might have shot themselves in the foot. This may sway more people to shoot Nightforce or USO which typically is just a tad cheaper in price. What im getting as is Scotts deals might have swayed people away from Nightforce to take the "Step up" to Premier. Premier might just hung themselves
 
#233
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

MAP...Better not see anymore scopes for sale in the Optics section for less! Start selling all scopes as used scopes. You bought them, now they are used, sell accordingly.
 
#234
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I currently have 2 PH's. I've been happy with their performance. I'm currently having a rifle built and already have a custom 45 moa rail to run a 3rd PH on it. I will now have to rethink what's going on the new rifle.
 
#235
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I agree .. Premier will start to feel the affects when they put thier own greed over dealer loyalty and customer service. They may have appeased some dealers for not wanting to deal, but now they will feel a drop off in sales. Of course that is my opinion. They will not see a dime of my money-- currious how Premier has been very silent.
 
#236
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I am offering low dollar bids on all PR 3x15's and 5x25's. I don't care if the box is missing, damaged, or even IF there aren't parallax markings. I SHOULD reduce my offer by 25%, but won't, as I know how hard it is to get rid of these pieces...let me know. </div></div>

I'm with Netranger. As a matter of fact<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 11pt"> I'm paying $1,000 for all those shitty new and like new Premier scopes. You can contact me by IM or email. I'm only taking the first 30 so hurry up!</span></span>

SC
 
#237
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SierraCharlie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There seem to be alot of members here that have great deficiencies in logical deduction or just like to hear themselves bitch. So one more time: <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 11pt">Premier, Schmidt, Vortex, Nightforce, IOR, you name it, they all have MAP policies and will all act in the same manner if they find those policies have been violated.</span></span>

So all of you that are saying "F*ck Premier my money's going to S&B" are just feeding another beast rife with MAP mentality.

SC </div></div>

No, not true. I see the issue not as "Manufacturers <span style="font-weight: bold">Advertised</span> Price" as I see it being a low down underhanded tactic to screw with someone. So is this truely an issue of MAP or is it an issue of a fixed price for the product for sale and Premiers lack of loyalty and execution of an underhanded type tactic or should we focus this on ATI? Maybe Premier should have stated that their optics will be sold at $XXXXX cost and place that in a contract?

Honestly I think the way this was executed by T Dean GB Stumpp and ATI as well as Premier's failure to respond to contact attempts, demonstrates their unwillingness to "work" with someone who has stuck by their side. To me that says that I can not trust them. If they fail to support someone who had stuck by them in the past and then do something underhanded like this and crap on them? It shows lack of character, class, loyalty. Now how would I expect to be treated especially since I do not move a bunch of their optics? Can I expect the same amount of loyalty they showed LO?? Where there is smoke?

Just my .02 aka opinion.
 
#238
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If MAP is there, as alluded to earlier with the Ford Mustang analogy, to keep prices the same for all dealers, then MAP is simply a way around "price fixing." If a business has to advertise a minimum price then gets into hot water for selling, <span style="color: #FF0000">but not advertsing</span>, at a lower price, how is that not price fixing?

</div></div>

That's the thing, Liberty Optics technically DID advertise a lower price, accidently and only slightly, but putting that price on the guys invoice.

And you can't say its not advertising, since its obviously made it around the internet.
laugh.gif
</div></div>

It might have but not by LO direct means.
 
#239
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefan73</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SierraCharlie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There seem to be alot of members here that have great deficiencies in logical deduction or just like to hear themselves bitch. So one more time: <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 11pt">Premier, Schmidt, Vortex, Nightforce, IOR, you name it, they all have MAP policies and will all act in the same manner if they find those policies have been violated.</span></span>

So all of you that are saying "F*ck Premier my money's going to S&B" are just feeding another beast rife with MAP mentality.

SC </div></div>

No, not true. I see the issue not as "Manufacturers <span style="font-weight: bold">Advertised</span> Price" as I see it being a low down underhanded tactic to screw with someone. So is this truely an issue of MAP or is it an issue of a fixed price for the product for sale and Premiers lack of loyalty and execution of an underhanded type tactic or should we focus this on ATI? Maybe Premier should have stated that their optics will be sold at $XXXXX cost and place that in a contract?

Honestly I think the way this was executed by T Dean GB Stumpp and ATI as well as Premier's failure to respond to contact attempts, demonstrates their unwillingness to "work" with someone who has stuck by their side. To me that says that I can not trust them. If they fail to support someone who had stuck by them in the past and then do something underhanded like this and crap on them? It shows lack of character, class, loyalty. Now how would I expect to be treated especially since I do not move a bunch of their optics? Can I expect the same amount of loyalty they showed LO?? Where there is smoke?

Just my .02 aka opinion. </div></div>

I agree that this decision and Scott's treatment were both lowdown, underhanded, and extremely punitive. Actions not completely unexpected for a young company.

That said, I guarantee you everyone of these companies has "shoppers" and they will all treat a vendor the same if they feel their brand image is being damaged by the prices offered.

SC
 
#240
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefan73</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe Premier should have stated that their optics will be sold at $XXXXX cost and place that in a contract?</div></div>

again, we haven't seen if this was the case or not. what if it was in the agreement and all of you are dog piling on premier because someone didn't read premier's vendor policies? i haven't read premier's vendor policy, have any of you that say you will never buy from premier again? how many manufacturer/distributors have similar vendor policies in your every day lives that you never hear about?
 
#241
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SierraCharlie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I am offering low dollar bids on all PR 3x15's and 5x25's. I don't care if the box is missing, damaged, or even IF there aren't parallax markings. I SHOULD reduce my offer by 25%, but won't, as I know how hard it is to get rid of these pieces...let me know. </div></div>

I'm with Netranger. As a matter of fact<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 11pt"> I'm paying $1,000 for all those shitty new and like new Premier scopes. You can contact me by IM or email. I'm only taking the first 30 so hurry up!</span></span>

SC </div></div>

Why would I sell to a low-ball offer ... I think I should ask a <span style="font-weight: bold">premium price</span> for a used PR scope obviously ATI is laying down the law and everyone will have to pay list price on new PR scopes causing the value of used to rise as well
wink.gif
 
#242
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tch2fly</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SierraCharlie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I am offering low dollar bids on all PR 3x15's and 5x25's. I don't care if the box is missing, damaged, or even IF there aren't parallax markings. I SHOULD reduce my offer by 25%, but won't, as I know how hard it is to get rid of these pieces...let me know. </div></div>

I'm with Netranger. As a matter of fact<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 11pt"> I'm paying $1,000 for all those shitty new and like new Premier scopes. You can contact me by IM or email. I'm only taking the first 30 so hurry up!</span></span>

SC </div></div>

Why would I sell to a low-ball offer ... I think I should ask a <span style="font-weight: bold">premium price</span> for a used PR scope obviously ATI is laying down the law and everyone will have to pay list price on new PR scopes causing the value of used to rise as well
wink.gif
</div></div>

How about this; For all owners that believe Premier's are shitty scopes from a shitty company b/c of this incident, I am buying new and like new Premiers at the extremely attractive price of $1,000 per optic. For all those that believe that this MAP enforcement can only cause the value of Premier's to go up I am selling all models at a bargain price of $6,000 (just think of how much this and your Rolex will be worth in the future, you'll be rich bitch)!
 
#243
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I'm not gonna read through all this because I am kinda ticked. I may have to put my premier on the market for a very below MAP price. It has been used for about 50 rnds. This is very tempting at the moment. If I had the money to buy a S&B and replace it.
 
#244
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tch2fly</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SierraCharlie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I am offering low dollar bids on all PR 3x15's and 5x25's. I don't care if the box is missing, damaged, or even IF there aren't parallax markings. I SHOULD reduce my offer by 25%, but won't, as I know how hard it is to get rid of these pieces...let me know. </div></div>

I'm with Netranger. As a matter of fact<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 11pt"> I'm paying $1,000 for all those shitty new and like new Premier scopes. You can contact me by IM or email. I'm only taking the first 30 so hurry up!</span></span>

SC </div></div>

Why would I sell to a low-ball offer ... I think I should ask a <span style="font-weight: bold">premium price</span> for a used PR scope obviously ATI is laying down the law and everyone will have to pay list price on new PR scopes causing the value of used to rise as well
wink.gif
</div></div>

You're thinking way too logically here man, with the laws of economics and all. Mphew. I'm just trying to help those that want to throw their PR's in the trash; consider me a "recycler".
 
#246
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Amazing.
Since Jerry left it has gone downhill. While he was there he hooked me up and was bummed he left. Now I see two things: glad he left and glad I saw this post. They seem to have forgotten where they came from and the good stiff they used to do.
 
#247
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: montana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not gonna read through all this because I am kinda ticked. I may have to put my premier on the market for a very below MAP price. It has been used for about 50 rnds. This is very tempting at the moment. If I had the money to buy a S&B and replace it. </div></div>

I'm paying $1,000 cash for new to like new condition Premiers. PM me.


SC
 
#249
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I currently own a PR, and have seriously been contemplating the possiblity of purchasing a 5-25, put will now be looking in other directions. The only reason for giving PR a chance in the first place was because of Scott and his recomendation. It was very hard to justify PR when a PM II was right there as an alternative. We are very fortunate to have many great options at the high end of the scale, so not purchasing from PR is really not much of a loss at all.
 
#250
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefan73</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe Premier should have stated that their optics will be sold at $XXXXX cost and place that in a contract?</div></div>

again, we haven't seen if this was the case or not. what if it was in the agreement and all of you are dog piling on premier because someone didn't read premier's vendor policies? i haven't read premier's vendor policy, have any of you that say you will never buy from premier again? how many manufacturer/distributors have similar vendor policies in your every day lives that you <span style="font-weight: bold">never hear about</span>?
</div></div>

That is easy, non, zero. Because I obviously had not heard of it.

So what is the difference between price fixing and this form of MAP? Is it just that this is not an agreement with other optics sellers, makers to sell optics at a specific price? I'm not a lawyer so I'm asking.

To me the big deal is with the loyalty as I percieve it. Whatever they want to charge for their scopes is their business and will also have a determination on whether I buy one of their optics or not. However I will not buy from someone that I can not trust and someone who utilizes what I deem as sorry tactics. This could have been handled in a professional manner which in my opinion it was not.
 
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