Rifle Scopes We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

#301
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Hey premier & ati you poeple have "FUCKED UP".Scott you got me my premier 5-25 for me only for what was written on the Hide and for that your word meant alot to me ,for that reason i had ordered other products from you.YOU will still have my business and yes dinner will be on me as per Phone conversation last time we spoke.
see you downunder
Guy
p.s.was going to buy another prem. not any more you don't fuck with friends
 
#302
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Without seeing their dealer agreement, everyone here is just pissing in the wind about whether MAP is defined as MAP, or MSP. The email of "expectations" is BS, it's what is in the agreement that matters - from a legal perspective.

However, the legal perspective is only one perspective, and that is what the morons at ATI et all seem to have forgotten. They have done way more harm here than good.

It is Premiere's right to have MAP, and it is our right to not purchase from them, or anyone associated with them. It's really that simple.
 
#303
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Once upon a time in the late 60's early 70's, a company thought bullet proof, made new policy to their sales force.

We will price, produce an market our product the way we see fit. Dealers will fall in line or they won't be dealers. The buying public is stupid.

Who were they, that were so all high an mighty?

Their known today as Government Motors!
 
#304
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Once upon a time in the late 60's early 70's, a company thought bullet proof, made new policy to their sales force.

We will price, produce an market our product the way we see fit. Dealers will fall in line or they won't be dealers. The buying public is stupid.

Who were they, that were so all high an mighty?

Their known today as Government Motors! </div></div>
They had MAP pricing on Saturns; how did that work out for them??
 
#305
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I can see Premiers arguement but what I can't see is their solution. They chose to punish a business for something quite trivial when a friendly phone call would have likely been just as effective. Pretty chicken-shit if you ask me. Sounds like something a freakin hormonally imbalanced teenage girl would do.

The toes you step on today may be attached to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow and this thread is proving that true.

Hell, the guy didn't squash a bag of puppies in front of a preschool...he allowed himself to get talked into a deal (by a professional freakin liar I might add) on a rifle scope in a bad economy.

This is embarrasing to the sport and you should be ashamed of yourselves! If I had an old Premier lying around I'd squash it with my dually and post it on YouTube. I might even piss on it.

 
#307
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Good decision Scott. I would likely never bought a Premier anyway, I think there are better out there at that price point and just as good for significantly less.

Premier has not lost my business with this decision, they never had it to begin with. They have however earned some ire with me over these practices. Scott is good people and every dealing I have had with him has been good.

Thanks for making the shooting community aware of this. I will continue to steer potential customers away from Premier. Hopefully other businesses will steer away from ATI as well.
 
#308
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I've been on the fence for the last month or so whether to get a Gen II XR or a Razor EBR2 for my next build. As of now the question is EBR2 or EBR2B.

And as some others have said, my issue isn't MAP, I may not like it but pretty much every major brand out their does it (Oakley, Rayban, Nightforce, ST Dupont, to name a couple that I can see from where I sit). The way they did this, to a long time supporter is BS.
 
#309
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BaileyMoto</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Almost every reputable manufacturer in this industry abides by MAP policies (Even the NF that everyone here pushes so much), as do many other industries. I had to abide by MAP when I had an automotive parts business, and I felt that it was *usually* a good practice.

For me:

1) MAP prevented Joe6Pack from undercutting everyone in the business and from spamming his name by being okay with a $15 mark up. Joe6pack working out of mommas basement has virtually no overhead. Joe6pack usually goes out of business, but not before undercutting everyone in the industry for a year. After Joe6pack folds up, Joe4pack springs up taking his place to continue the cycle.

2) MAP allowed me to make a profit to actually help pay for my business - advertisements, employees (albeit, I only had 2), website upkeep, purchasing, etc etc. (not to mention put a couple dollars in my pocket at the end of the day)

3) MAP (decent profit for reseller) gives incentive for a reseller to actually push the manufacturers product and essentially work as an extension of advertising and customer service for the manufacturer.

4) MAP allows for a primo product (Premier, Nightforce, etc) to have a higher profit margin for everyone in the business. As a reseller, don't you want more profit on a Nightforce than a Barfska? It just makes sense.

5) MAP violations still exist if someone can simply hop on google and type "cheapest Premier scopes" and get directed to a SH link that suggests "Just call dealer X and he will hook you up with a 30% discount!"

6) MAP is not price fixing - I suggest looking up the definition.

The 'free market' arguments are being made by people who have obviously never owned a business in the newer world market of internet sales. Without MAP, you would likely see all your favorite resellers pack up, forcing the manufacturer to handle all sales and customer service. Personally, I prefer to deal with a reputable, knowledgable, and friendly reseller, rather than the manufacturer.

On that note, I still believe the way Premier ultimately handled this was horrible...at the very least, they should have given their loyal customer (Liberty) a warning or a slap on the wrist. Cutting him out completely is going off the deep end and potentially hurts Premiers reputation in the community that has been supporting them from the beginning.
</div></div>

Perhaps you need to re-read this:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">MAP is fine when it is ADVERTISED...when it becomes AUTHORISED...screw them. Business models that have to artificially inflate their prices are doomed to fail long term. Someone can always build the same product cheaper...and will.</div></div>
 
#310
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Yes and G.M. became the second-largest industrial bankruptcy in history. Actually the Government has purchased billions in sales from G.M. Everyone one from the IRS agents to Presidents have used G.M. products. Probably 95% of our military could not even tell you what a Premier is or who uses them.

This goes back to my first post on page one. The U.S. military from Premier will not keep them above water, unless we are providing them to non U.S. Forces. Consumers are stupid and many assume a higher price assures a better product.

There are a lot of post on here, that indicate Premier are overpriced to start with and/or are not as good as some of their competitors. If this is the case, then we (the consumers) are the reason can they demand a M.A.P. Why are we buying them from anyone until the price is where it belongs? I would say it is because of association. If it leaks out that the SEALS took out bin Laden with a TASCO, Wal-Mart would sell out by lunch time.
 
#311
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Premiere ....HOO Hoo.. this spreads its on forum in Sweden now...
the globe is a lot smaller now than ten years ago....
 
#312
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

In all honesty, if I purchased my PR 5x25 in 2010, or was considering it, I probably would have looked harder at Henny and SB at the time. With the 30% increase in price and the obvious MAP policy in place, I could have spent a few hundred more for the top of the tier 1 gear. However, I didn't, and paid what I see as a fair price in 2009, not from a dealer, rather a fellow Hide member. I don't regret it, as it has every feature I want, is a freakin' tank, and performs flawlessly.
 
#313
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Interesting to say the least that nobody from Premier has spoken up, nor has our new member ATI said anything. I think their lack of responses say more than enough.

Can you say mother of all backfires?
 
#314
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I don't believe in boycotts because I really doubt they ever achieve anything good. I also personally dislike organized negativism being heaped on anyone by this site's membership.

I think we need to regain our composure here, and remember who and where we are; who's watching, and how that affects us all.
 
#315
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

The key to your words were "fair price". Apparently Premier wants to mandate minimum pricing to prevent a dealer from making just a fair profit.
 
#316
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I wonderhow much business "money" PR will actually loose because of this thread. I've sold my PR 5x25 and will NOT be purchasing another one until Scott is selling them if he ever does. In his case, I hope he tells them to get bent and goes with a different company to replace them such as Steiner etc.

God bless Scott!
Respectfully,
Sv
 
#317
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Scott,

Wanted to let you know that I support your decision to never carry Premiers again. I do not agree with the way that they went about setting you up or enforcing their MAP pricing. I understand a company's desire to use MAP pricing, but I do not believe that you in any way violated their policies; as you stated you never advertised or sent out written quotes.

Let this be a lesson to the Hide members... please remember discretion when dealing with our vendors so we don't inadvertently initiate a similar incident.

I will also never by anything from Premier or ATI again. I will also spread the word and encourage others to do the same.
 
#318
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

How many actual Premier owners exist in your county. Most shooters have never touched one, most hunters have never heard of one, most of the people on this web site never intended to buy one. The market is really pretty small.
 
#319
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

We have heard one side, but if this is as it appears, the site Moderators may want to consider implementing a permanent band on Terry Dean, and a warning to Premier. I can understand both sides positions, but I can not condone the manufactures way for dealing with a perceived problem, nor the way they would use this site and it's reputation to arrive at their solution. Unacceptable.
 
#320
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alt6grunt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many actual Premier owners exist in your county. Most shooters have never touched one, most hunters have never heard of one, most of the people on this web site never intended to buy one. The market is really pretty small.</div></div>

And it just got smaller.
 
#322
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Eight pages,WOW. Scott You have been stand-up and a man of your word through a number of deals. I have learned to appreciate your understanding of optics, and your willingness to share your knowledge and experience with those who do business with you. I am more impressed with your ethics and the value YOU place on your word.
I hope you come back with USO,Henny, or S&B, as a top line optic. I know you will work just as hard to get them into shooters hands.
It appears your support here on the "Hide" is unwavering.
 
#323
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MB198</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The site Moderators may want to consider implementing a permanent band on Terry Dean, and a warning to Premier. I can understand both sides positions, but I can not understand the manufactures way for dealing with a perceived problem, nor the way they would use this site and it's reputation to arrive at their solution. Unacceptable. </div></div>

Wow, I'm glad you chimed in with what our moderators should or should not do. Heck, why don't we just ban anyone using a PR while we're at it?

I believe it's more complicated than this, and there are relationships with the manufacturer beyond LO.

Look up, Greg summed it pretty damn well.
 
#324
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MB198</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The site Moderators may want to consider implementing a permanent band on Terry Dean, and a warning to Premier. I can understand both sides positions, but I can not understand the manufactures way for dealing with a perceived problem, nor the way they would use this site and it's reputation to arrive at their solution. Unacceptable.</div></div>

We are watching this thread. No one will be banned unless they break site rules.

Liberty Optics is a Sniper's Hide Vendor. Premier is not. We won't issue warnings as we won't tell them how to run their business. That is up to them. The community is small enough to police it's own but we will be watching for anything on this site that goes against site rules. If it doesn't break any rules then it's up to the community to make their own mind up on who they want to do business with. Just keep this conversation civil.
 
#325
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I've read the entire thread, and in what the Moderators should or shouldn't do, am offering my suggestion as a member, is this inappropriate?
 
#327
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
We are watching this thread. No one will be banned unless they break site rules.

Liberty Optics is a Sniper's Hide Vendor. Premier is not. We won't issue warnings as we won't tell them how to run their business. That is up to them. The community is small enough to police it's own but we will be watching for anything on this site that goes against site rules. If it doesn't break any rules then it's up to the community to make their own mind up on who they want to do business with. Just keep this conversation civil.</div></div>

Well said.

I'll express my opinion with my check book. My hard earned money will not be going to Premier or their parent company.

I've done business with Scott and LO. They provide an excellent service to their customers and the members of this site.
 
#329
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

It's great to see so much support for Scott and Liberty Optics. Companies like Premier can become out of touch with their customers and audience, and that's when it behooves their customers to get in touch with them. If you currently own a Premier scope, write the company and tell them in a professional manner that we expect more out of them than how they've conducted business with LO. The email address is: [email protected].
 
#330
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

has anyone here seen a dealer contract between the two parties? do we know for a fact that there was no incident prior to this that lead to it being handled the way it did?

i've never dealt with either company and would like to know what the contract was and if there were prior incidents between the two parties. i am not ready to blindly jump on the bandwagon.
 
#331
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I don't understand why Dealers put up with this crap.. The Dealers hold the power in this type of market set up. How many Dealers are there out there who carry Premier scopes....really...?

I would love to see the Dealers get together & simply tell the Distributors.....

<span style="font-style: italic">"Sorry guys, we reserve the right to sell the product at whatever price we want, once we've purchased it from you......if you don't agree with this.....good luck selling it on your own"</span>

How many sales would Premier make if they had<span style="font-weight: bold"> NOT ONE SINGLE Dealer</span> willing to carry their product? My guess would be....not too many...
 
#332
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

As others have stated, if PH gets their money for the scope who cares. EVERYONE likes to think they are getting a "deal". The only one loosing on the deal was scott, as he had cut is profit margin. (hoping to make a customer of course).

ATI and PH believe that this will not result in lost sales, that customers will just happily pay MAP with other dealers, But again EVERYONE likes a deal. This will cause customers to price shop and maybe get a "deal" on another scope. Even if it is a more expensive scope.

I'll put it this way. Suppose Ford Motor company said that the dealers could not sale a Mustang for less than MSRP (car companies have tried no haggle pricing and it never works) well very very few people are "brand loyal" any more, so all the chevy dealers have to do is be able to deal on a Camero an people will be drawn to the chevy dealers.

This really is an chance for other scope makers to take some market share. If someone is smart enough to capitalize on it.
 
#333
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mgd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't understand why Dealers put up with this crap.. The Dealers hold the power in this type of market set up. How many Dealers are there out there who carry Premier scopes....really...?

I would love to see the Dealers get together & simply tell the Distributors.....

<span style="font-style: italic">"Sorry guys, we reserve the right to sell the product at whatever price we want, once we've purchased it from you......if you don't agree with this.....good luck selling it on your own"</span>

How many sales would Premier make if they had<span style="font-weight: bold"> NOT ONE SINGLE Dealer</span> willing to carry their product? My guess would be....not too many... </div></div>

how many sales would dealers make if they had no product to sell?
 
#334
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2ndamendfan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As others have stated, if PH gets their money for the scope who cares. EVERYONE likes to think they are getting a "deal". The only one loosing on the deal was scott, as he had cut is profit margin. (hoping to make a customer of course).

ATI and PH believe that this will not result in lost sales, that customers will just happily pay MAP with other dealers, But again EVERYONE likes a deal. This will cause customers to price shop and maybe get a "deal" on another scope. Even if it is a more expensive scope.

I'll put it this way. Suppose Ford Motor company said that the dealers could not sale a Mustang for less than MSRP (car companies have tried no haggle pricing and it never works) well very very few people are "brand loyal" any more, so all the chevy dealers have to do is be able to deal on a Camero an people will be drawn to the chevy dealers.

<span style="font-weight: bold">This really is an chance for other scope makers to take some market share. If someone is smart enough to capitalize on it.</span> </div></div>

i would bet most every other high end scope manufacture also has strict map policies.
 
#335
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think its inappropriate, but the mods are pretty sensitive when it comes to this. Sorry if my message was received that way. </div></div>

Seems YOU think you are the "monitor" for this thread anyway.Now you are telling us how the mods feel ? Reading your posts I get severe "Butt Hurt" coming from you stemming from the perceived loss of value on your Precious PR scope that you bought used and not from Scott or a dealer anyway.Ever bought a Top Shelf optic from a dealer in your life ? I doubt it,otherwise you would know why many of us are loyal to a guy like Scott Berish and sure as hell don't like the way he's been treated.Has nothing to do with your stupid PR/PH scope.

Pretty obvious you are just running off at the mouth simply because you own one of these optics and not because of any experience dealing with LO.Have you ever spoken to him or spent a dime with LO ? I have,and couldn't tell you if it was the cheapest price out there or not on several optics,don't really care either,lowest price doesn't always equal best deal anyway.

Why don't you really impress us and post the same want to buy PR Scopes that you indicated in your earlier posts in this thread on the PX WTB forum ? That.....would indicate you're serious and not just a case of "All Hat and No Cattle"
grin.gif
 
#337
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MtGoat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On June 28, 2007, the Supreme Court overruled Dr. Miles, discussed below, holding that such vertical price restraints as Minimum Advertised Pricing are not per se unlawful but, rather, must be judged under the "rule of reason." Leegin Creative Leather Products, Inc. v. PSKS, Inc., Slip Op. No. 06–480 (Decided June 28, 2007).[4] This marked a dramatic shift on how attorneys and enforcement agencies address the legality of contractual minimum prices, and essentially allowed the reestablishment of resale price maintenance in the United States in most (but not all) commercial situations.

In Dr. Miles Medical Co. v. John D. Park and Sons, 220 U.S. 373 (1911), the United States Supreme Court affirmed a lower court's holding that a massive minimum resale price maintenance scheme was unreasonable and thus offended Section 1 of the Sherman Antitrust Act. The decision rested on the assertion that minimum resale price maintenance is indistinguishable in economic effect from naked horizontal price fixing by a cartel. Subsequent decisions characterized Dr Miles as holding that minimum resale price maintenance is unlawful per se - that is, without regard to its impact on the marketplace or consumers

Guess Miles v Parks it was over-turned.

Pat </div></div>

Thank you for the point of clarity Pat.


Good luck
 
#339
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

My other issue is with G.B. Stumpp and their participation in it. Primarely Terry Dean.
http://www.gbstumpp.com/index.html

I wonder if ATI got him to do it or he took his own innitiative?
Either way if I buy something I will do my hardest to ensure that what I purchase has not gone through the hands of either venture!
 
#340
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: afd77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alt6grunt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many actual Premier owners exist in your county. Most shooters have never touched one, most hunters have never heard of one, most of the people on this web site never intended to buy one. The market is really pretty small.</div></div>

And it just got smaller. </div></div>

That would be my thought on the substance of this thread. MAP maintenance in general pisses me off.
 
#341
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MB198</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It appears that I am out of line. The underhandedness just seemed to strike a nerve with me</div></div>

Not out of line but the site is also a business we run it that way and go by the site's rules.

Personally, I think it was pretty shitty thing to do to a business like Liberty Optics and a stand up guy like Scott but like I said earlier it's a small community. People will vote with their wallets. Scott will be fine as he carries many other fine products.
 
#342
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmaHeavy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Wanna sell it? Cheap? </div></div>

How much will it be worth after PH goes out of business?</div></div>

PH go out of biz?? That's a lot to ponder..With Steiner coming out with an almost exact scope, makes me wonder
 
#343
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I just remember Scott getting me ino a 5-25 and I had it in my hands before my buddy that payed in full, full retail directly to Premier had his.
That was the begining of me wondering about Premier.

I'm not so sure what amount of the marketshare PR would have with the Heritage if it weren't for LO and SH......
 
#344
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I have never been a fan of Premier scopes anyway. This only insures I will never spend my money on one and make sure my team mates and friends stay clear of them.
 
#345
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefan73</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Someone hit the nail on the head - in essence, strong enforcement of MAP generally favors a product that is not capable of securing the same value in the market place if relegated to pure competitive forces.</div></div>
To summarize and please correct me if I am wrong. MAP is used to secure a price for a product that is not worth said price?</div></div>
Stefan, I read it the same way: "the product isn't worth the money". And if I really care for resale value I should stay away from it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is not just an attack on Liberty Optics or Scott Berish. It is another shot at the way we used to be. The value we put on relationships in business and (as others have said) a free market managed by gentlemen, not the legal fine print.</div></div>
I agree.

Which is why I'm making a personal decision to stay away from Premier Reticle products, and probably from ATI stuff as well.

I couldn't afford S&B (and didn't like their reticles too much anyway) - so I got Vortex (and now it multiplied
smile.gif
). So far both Scott who sold me the scopes and Vortex have treated me perfectly. They've been loyal to me (how many manufacturers now would say "we've redesigned/improved the ocular - so we're offering to upgrade yours for free, even though the original one works OK"?). I'll be loyal to them.


Oh, and some "Stumps" (excerpts from Stumpp website):
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stumpp site</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">
Integrity, hard work, maturity, knowledge, success… that’s what it takes to be the best.

...............

The commitment to manufacturers is genuine: When G.B. Stumpp & Associates represents a product line, the firm personifies the manufacturer at every level of sales contact, communicating product information, company policies, and general good will.</span>
</div></div>
 
#346
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: &#8207;Steelvenom</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well Crap ... and I was going to purchase one for an expected rifle ... with that response from ATI ... I will never purchase a Premiere scope or ANYTHING from ATI--

I hope Hide members also "Boycott" this behavior-- There are other optics that are as good or better out there.

I hope things work out for you guys. </div></div>

F'n roger that! After buying from dealing with Scott @ Liberty Optic's, I told myself I would only be buying from him so long as he had that product. Total professional with next day delivery.

For Scott,

Don't stress Premier brother. They are not to popular around this camp fire anyhow. Stay around here and research what's is working best for the masses and go with it. Steiner seems like a good replacement for your Premier product line. Other than that Vortex, S&B, Valdada, Hendsoldt and Nightforce seem to be doing very well.

Nightforce is comming out with their new scope before to long. I will buy one off of you as soon as you get them in.

Don't stress it Scott. Your salesmanship and professionalism is still second to none.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Take care and God Bless.
Respectfully,
Sv</span>
</div></div>

Steiner?

Premier helped Steiner design their tactical line of scopes..... I'd stay away from them. I have had a couple Premier scopes, will probably sell them after hearing of this crap. Plus I cant believe some of the stories I have heard about their performances or lack of I should say.
 
#347
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Steiner?

Premier helped Steiner design their tactical line of scopes..... I'd stay away from them. I have had a couple Premier scopes, will probably sell them after hearing of this crap. Plus I cant believe some of the stories I have heard about their performances or lack of I should say. </div></div>

Negative.

Optronika , an independent opto-mechanical engineering firm (ex S&B employees) helped Steiner design their scope. Optronika also helped Premier design their scopes. That is the only connection.

 
#348
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: &#8207;Steelvenom</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well Crap ... and I was going to purchase one for an expected rifle ... with that response from ATI ... I will never purchase a Premiere scope or ANYTHING from ATI--

I hope Hide members also "Boycott" this behavior-- There are other optics that are as good or better out there.

I hope things work out for you guys. </div></div>

F'n roger that! After buying from dealing with Scott @ Liberty Optic's, I told myself I would only be buying from him so long as he had that product. Total professional with next day delivery.

For Scott,

Don't stress Premier brother. They are not to popular around this camp fire anyhow. Stay around here and research what's is working best for the masses and go with it. Steiner seems like a good replacement for your Premier product line. Other than that Vortex, S&B, Valdada, Hendsoldt and Nightforce seem to be doing very well.

Nightforce is comming out with their new scope before to long. I will buy one off of you as soon as you get them in.

Don't stress it Scott. Your salesmanship and professionalism is still second to none.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Take care and God Bless.
Respectfully,
Sv</span>
</div></div>

Steiner?

Premier helped Steiner design their tactical line of scopes..... I'd stay away from them. I have had a couple Premier scopes, will probably sell them after hearing of this crap. Plus I cant believe some of the stories I have heard about their performances or lack of I should say. </div></div>

Don't get Steiner and Premier mixed up. As Lowlight has pointed out also, Optronika are an independent outfit from Premier although obviously closely tied to Premier.

Generally speaking, the choice of taking products to market when they may or may not have had all the 'gremlins' ironed out - in effect making the customers pay for their R&D - is not within a partnering firm's remit,or even the majority of in-house employees. It's strictly a management choice.

The Optronika guys are good people who are as passionate about building the best optics possible as we are about getting the best price and value for money on our equipment. I wouldn't be surprised if the Steiner scopes are the best version possible within the parameters given to Optronika to design and build.
 
#349
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SANDRAT</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think its inappropriate, but the mods are pretty sensitive when it comes to this. Sorry if my message was received that way. </div></div>

Seems YOU think you are the "monitor" for this thread anyway.Now you are telling us how the mods feel ? Reading your posts I get severe "Butt Hurt" coming from you stemming from the perceived loss of value on your Precious PR scope that you bought used and not from Scott or a dealer anyway.Ever bought a Top Shelf optic from a dealer in your life ? I doubt it,otherwise you would know why many of us are loyal to a guy like Scott Berish and sure as hell don't like the way he's been treated.Has nothing to do with your stupid PR/PH scope.

Pretty obvious you are just running off at the mouth simply because you own one of these optics and not because of any experience dealing with LO.Have you ever spoken to him or spent a dime with LO ? I have,and couldn't tell you if it was the cheapest price out there or not on several optics,don't really care either,lowest price doesn't always equal best deal anyway.

Why don't you really impress us and post the same want to buy PR Scopes that you indicated in your earlier posts in this thread on the PX WTB forum ? That.....would indicate you're serious and not just a case of "All Hat and No Cattle"
grin.gif
</div></div>

First off, I never said I had any dealings with LO. Second, I bought from a respected member on the hide, and it was bnib. Thirdly, you're butt hurt for no reason at all. Unless you are in love. Fourthly, if people start dumping their PR's for bottom dollar, I would definitely post it up. I'm simply taking the antagonist view to this whole thread.
 
#350
Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm simply taking the antagonist view to this whole thread. </div></div>

Is that not the very definition of trolling?

John
 
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