Well this is hot!

[Holliday]

rechargeable cars is still in its experimental phase. they should work on it more. Not saying it will still be invested but i am just pointing the obvious.

A revolution in battery tech could help. That said, I don’t see lithium batteries fairing well here in Wyoming at 20 below 0°f. Nor do they like extreme heat.

It is easy to push this tech in less extreme urban environments but elsewhere it’s far from practical. Hell, I have a couple of full jerry cans mounted to the bed of my truck because a moment of inattention here in Wyoming can have you miss the last gas station for many miles. Having enough charging stations in Wyoming to get everyone, everywhere, is just never gonna happen.

There was a lady nearby who had a small EV but every time she needed to go somewhere that was more than 50 miles she had to borrow a gas car. In reality her and her EV, were an environmental net negative.

Now, if the current goals were simply to get a small portion of the population involved and move forward on environmental friendly solutions, that would be fine. But they seem to be rushing to the finish gate, way before they even have a solid horse to ride……

 

[fpgt72]

I understand the EV hate. If anyone is a “trad” car guy I guess I am. I also understand that battery tech is the current main issue.

If they weren’t so expensive, I would own a Tesla right now. It fits what I need daily extremely well even though I live in a mountainous area. I rode in a Model S once and I was smitten. Even the lowly Model 3 will wipe the floor with most any car you’ll come across.

I understand the societal issues. I understand the logistical issues. I understand the political issues. The US electric grid is in overall poor condition and mandating electric cars is a suicide pact.….this is true. But at one time when ICE cars were new and tech was burgeoning, getting fuel and oil was difficult. They got stuck. They broke. Early cars were the butt of jokes and received a lot of hate. A guy buys a car and all his buddies called him a fag and tell him that real men smell like horses. Change is hard. People are tribal.

Eventually horses became a hobby.

EVs are going to happen whether we like it or not. The hate is entertaining though so I don’t mind it, hell I join in at times…..I still wish for that Model S.

View attachment 8306700

There is another HUGE part in the entire EV scam..... The .gov and "unelected" alphabet groups pushing it so hard. The .gov giving tax money, your money to bribe you to buy one.

"back in the day" there was none of that crap. At one time there was the horse, gas cars, steam cars, electric cars. There was even a fleet of electric taxi cabs with quick change batteries in IIRC NYC in 1910. The ICE finally won in the market place. This is the only way that GOOD things come to be. Let the free market decide what it wants.

Irving sees more and more of these new gas cars running around, and he thinks, you know there is going to be money in these things, so he opens up a garage with pumps for gas, and a workshop for the cars....a few years goes by and he is now selling Chevrolet in hometown USA.

With the electric EVERYTHING has to be propped up, the vehicle can not stand on its own. This proves to me that the tech is not ready. If it really was better it would be winning. It is not, you can't argue people don't want these things, and they are sitting on dealer lots, to the point GM is buying out dealers that refuse to sell EV's.

They are just not ready.

My main issue with all the resources dumped into this dead end, and it is a dead end. Have we shorted other technology that might be the a "better" answer, hydrogen, ammonia.....who knows.

 

[wade2big]

Next time with your old phone battery, be sure you take the phone apart to make darn sure you hit the battery. Get nail, hammer, drive nail straight through battery. I have a feeling you will see some interesting results.

I hit one with a mini sledge. I can see how the phones with the bad batterie's were burning people’s houses down about 6-8 years ago.

 

[Lawless]

There is another HUGE part in the entire EV scam..... The .gov and "unelected" alphabet groups pushing it so hard. The .gov giving tax money, your money to bribe you to buy one.

"back in the day" there was none of that crap. At one time there was the horse, gas cars, steam cars, electric cars. There was even a fleet of electric taxi cabs with quick change batteries in IIRC NYC in 1910. The ICE finally won in the market place. This is the only way that GOOD things come to be. Let the free market decide what it wants.

Irving sees more and more of these new gas cars running around, and he thinks, you know there is going to be money in these things, so he opens up a garage with pumps for gas, and a workshop for the cars....a few years goes by and he is now selling Chevrolet in hometown USA.

With the electric EVERYTHING has to be propped up, the vehicle can not stand on its own. This proves to me that the tech is not ready. If it really was better it would be winning. It is not, you can't argue people don't want these things, and they are sitting on dealer lots, to the point GM is buying out dealers that refuse to sell EV's.

They are just not ready.

My main issue with all the resources dumped into this dead end, and it is a dead end. Have we shorted other technology that might be the a "better" answer, hydrogen, ammonia.....who knows.

Maybe you missed where I said I understand the logistical, political and societal implications. I argue for the free market to decide myself, not sure why I’m being preached to but I understand it is your way.

 

[Holliday]

When I lived in Vancouver, Canada in 97, they had EV busses that went all over the city that ran on actual electricity. We used them often because it was so much easier than driving and parking.

Protruding off the back of bus was a couple of poles that ran diagonally up to some wires, than exist on their routes. They were not really modern looking but they were clean and quiet. I really thought they were the example of an EV, in the proper setting.

Every once in a while but rarely, you would see one of the operators at an intersection with a special pole, getting those poles on the back of the bus linked back up to the wires as they had popped off. I only heard about this and never actually saw it, it was so rare.

Vancouver was an awesome city back before Trudeau……

 

[Sean the Nailer]

When I lived in Vancouver, Canada in 97, they had EV busses that went all over the city that ran on actual electricity. We used them often because it was so much easier than driving and parking.

Protruding off the back of bus was a couple of poles that ran diagonally up to some wires, than exist on their routes. They were not really modern looking but they were clean and quiet. I really thought they were the example of an EV, in the proper setting.

Every once in a while but rarely, you would see one of the operators at an intersection with a special pole, getting those poles on the back of the bus linked back up to the wires as they had popped off. I only heard about this and never actually saw it, it was so rare.

Vancouver was an awesome city back before Trudeau……

I know of 'juvenile delinquents' who used to bumper-ski on the backs of those busses.... then 'bounce' those poles off the wires. "Just for the fun of it", they claimed.

Mind you, this was in Vancouver back in the 80's,,,, before it's re-branding into Hongcouver.

 

[rtB]

Back about 50 years ago my grandparents lived at a place where -everyone- drove EVs. They pretty much went everywhere, shopping, movies, restaurants etc. The EVs were called golf carts. But everyone also had a Cadillac. Sun City AZ, 1970ish.

 

[Holliday]

I know of 'juvenile delinquents' who used to bumper-ski on the backs of those busses.... then 'bounce' those poles off the wires. "Just for the fun of it", they claimed.

Mind you, this was in Vancouver back in the 80's,,,, before it's re-branding into Hongcouver.

My then wife, grew up there. She was 3rd generation Japanese. I remember walking down the street in downtown at 5pm. Suddenly I was in a sea of Asians getting off work.

One thing about Vancouver was they had few left turning lanes. Those Asians would actually stop on a green, and let you turn. Some of the most polite drivers I ever shared the road with…..

 

[wade2big]

Maybe you missed where I said I understand the logistical, political and societal implications. I argue for the free market to decide myself, not sure why I’m being preached to but I understand it is your way.

The free market doesn’t exist. You may be speaking figuratively/wishfully and already know this.

 

[chevy_man]

Next time with your old phone battery, be sure you take the phone apart to make darn sure you hit the battery. Get nail, hammer, drive nail straight through battery. I have a feeling you will see some interesting results.

Yeah. This was battery out of the phone.

We also tried hitting a RC car lipo with a welder. It puffed up, vented, and then was dead with no fire.

 

[chevy_man]

There is another HUGE part in the entire EV scam..... The .gov and "unelected" alphabet groups pushing it so hard. The .gov giving tax money, your money to bribe you to buy one.

"back in the day" there was none of that crap. At one time there was the horse, gas cars, steam cars, electric cars. There was even a fleet of electric taxi cabs with quick change batteries in IIRC NYC in 1910. The ICE finally won in the market place. This is the only way that GOOD things come to be. Let the free market decide what it wants.

Irving sees more and more of these new gas cars running around, and he thinks, you know there is going to be money in these things, so he opens up a garage with pumps for gas, and a workshop for the cars....a few years goes by and he is now selling Chevrolet in hometown USA.

With the electric EVERYTHING has to be propped up, the vehicle can not stand on its own. This proves to me that the tech is not ready. If it really was better it would be winning. It is not, you can't argue people don't want these things, and they are sitting on dealer lots, to the point GM is buying out dealers that refuse to sell EV's.

They are just not ready.

My main issue with all the resources dumped into this dead end, and it is a dead end. Have we shorted other technology that might be the a "better" answer, hydrogen, ammonia.....who knows.

Hydrogen was always the answer. Some dumb blimp ruined it for everyone.

Oh, and you could have a solar or wind powered hydrogen generator in your own garage. Just need power and water.

That's why it can't happen. We could be totally independent on fuel and energy.


For hydrogen to work it is much more feasible to use electric cars with fuel cells that convert hydrogen straight to electricity. Burning hydrogen isn't nearly as efficient.

So let's replace the 8000-12000 18650 cells with a hydrogen tank and fuel cell in a Tesla. No more lithium batteries, fuel we can make ourselves or fuel at stations in minutes...

Big oil doesn't want that.

 

[fpgt72]

Maybe you missed where I said I understand the logistical, political and societal implications. I argue for the free market to decide myself, not sure why I’m being preached to but I understand it is your way.

Sorry you misunderstand.

I will quote someone for a great many reasons, perhaps a point was talked about that I want to expand upon. I am thinking this is the case here.

Quoting to disagree (I think) I will usually start with something along the lines of....well about that......... Or close but not quite......some kind of little quip.

In rereading both posts, yours and mine, I was just expanding on the point you had already made.

Sorry I really suck getting my "feelings" across in the written word, writing is VERY difficult for me, ADHD and dyslexic as all hell, so my brain will out run my fingers or my fingers will keep running when my brain goes over there for something or another.

I thought I was supporting your statement, and backing it up with some of the things I read like the electric taxi cabs.

 

[fpgt72]

When I lived in Vancouver, Canada in 97, they had EV busses that went all over the city that ran on actual electricity. We used them often because it was so much easier than driving and parking.

Protruding off the back of bus was a couple of poles that ran diagonally up to some wires, than exist on their routes. They were not really modern looking but they were clean and quiet. I really thought they were the example of an EV, in the proper setting.

Every once in a while but rarely, you would see one of the operators at an intersection with a special pole, getting those poles on the back of the bus linked back up to the wires as they had popped off. I only heard about this and never actually saw it, it was so rare.

Vancouver was an awesome city back before Trudeau……

I think that was back when people had a brain. It was a little less expensive then a trolley car. The bus does not require the same kind of rail work to keep safe. They are inches from people and other cars mind you....and if a track fails, there is not a great deal to do then hope the thing stops. A bus you can at least steer....hopefully.

I maintain there are places for this technology, however that place is not EVERYWHERE and it is not for the .gov or their masters at the UN, WEF and whoever else to decide where that is.

 

[fpgt72]

Yeah. This was battery out of the phone.

We also tried hitting a RC car lipo with a welder. It puffed up, vented, and then was dead with no fire.

A quick overcharge that is just what it should do. The slow buildup when it does not stop for one reason or another is when issues happen.

Poke a hole in it, you still might not see "fire" but the smoke out of a "normal" RC car pack, say 2s at 5000 should be a bit of a show.

And for the love of Mike don't be around it, sometimes they do get cranky when they let go.

Not that I would advise doing that or anything.

 

[fpgt72]

Hydrogen was always the answer. Some dumb blimp ruined it for everyone.

Oh, and you could have a solar or wind powered hydrogen generator in your own garage. Just need power and water.

That's why it can't happen. We could be totally independent on fuel and energy.


For hydrogen to work it is much more feasible to use electric cars with fuel cells that convert hydrogen straight to electricity. Burning hydrogen isn't nearly as efficient.

So let's replace the 8000-12000 18650 cells with a hydrogen tank and fuel cell in a Tesla. No more lithium batteries, fuel we can make ourselves or fuel at stations in minutes...

Big oil doesn't want that.

I really was not going to go down that road. But.....

The thing they always say when talking hydrogen is, well the energy you put in is more then you get out. Really, and you are making the argument for a battery? That is the flat worst thing in the world for that.

I think there is still money in it, look around you. How many people are going to go to all the trouble to make it themselves. You can do it now with diesel, remember when everyone wanted old cooking oil to run their diesel projects. "Smells like french fries when it is running". You saw that all over the place years ago.

Then you look into that and crap that is a lot of work. I think hydrogen would be the same thing. If you really want to "lock it down" figure a way to "die" it like they do with on road and "off road" diesel fuel.

I think if they put 1/3 of the effort into ANYTHING else we would be much farther along then we are now. But that is not what they want.

They KNOW the electric car is a dead end, they know it will make it very easy to control movement with the car and the charging. We are seeing it now. That is the end goal.

 

[Big Phish]

Burn....Baby....Burn!

 

[fpgt72]

 

[EddieNFL]

Why owuld that matter? Regardless it was human caused and not a failure of the product itself. Not they they dont self ignite

As long as you don’t get them wet or feed them after midnight.

 

[Holliday]

On the matter of batteries, I love my iPhones, iPads. I’m not the one who has to update to the latest and greatest. What’s the weak link in these devices? The freaking lithium batteries.

If I lay my iPhone in the sun on a 75°f day, it’ll likely shut off because of the solar heat-sink here at 7200 feet. If I’m out hunting and it’s below 0°f my phone has, and will, shut off.

Parenthetically, now on X maps has decided that we need to depend on these devices for our lives while hunting, as they have stopped supporting Garmin devices in favor of phones. I have always used my Garmin as my primary GPS while hunting. Keeping the phone tucked away, for an emergency call that might be needed.

Right now I’m typing on an iPad I purchased two years ago. The battery has already lost significant amount of life. The cost to replace the battery becomes almost not worth it. Let it go and upgrade before the software makes it obsolete.

I have a 2005 Silverado sitting outside w/ 75,000 miles and has been extremely well cared for, even though it has not been garage kept. If that were an EV, I would be long past looking at a new 30+ thousand dollar battery. If it were a Tesla, most likely by now, the software would be obsolete anyway…..

 

[fpgt72]

On the matter of batteries, I love my iPhones, iPads. I’m not the one who has to update to the latest and greatest. What’s the weak link in these devices? The freaking lithium batteries.

If I lay my iPhone in the sun on a 75°f day, it’ll likely shut off because of the solar heat-sink here at 7200 feet. If I’m out hunting and it’s below 0°f my phone has, and will, shut off.

Parenthetically, now on X maps has decided that we need to depend on these devices for our lives while hunting, as they have stopped supporting Garmin devices in favor of phones. I have always used my Garmin as my primary GPS while hunting. Keeping the phone tucked away, for an emergency call that might be needed.

Right now I’m typing on an iPad I purchased two years ago. The battery has already lost significant amount of life. The cost to replace the battery becomes almost not worth it. Let it go and upgrade before the software makes it obsolete.

I have a 2005 Silverado sitting outside w/ 75,000 miles and has been extremely well cared for, even though it has not been garage kept. If that were an EV, I would be long past looking at a new 30+ thousand dollar battery. If it were a Tesla, most likely by now, the software would be obsolete anyway…..

And then you have updates to your devices that will "shorten" the life of your battery. Pushing you to consume more and buy a new device.

Like I said it is so easy to move people in the direction they want you to go.

Now if you "want" the new gizmo, I have zero issue with that. more power to ya, but the people that are happy with their old devices and find the company reducing the battery life, that is top 10 in the dirty tricks and I would never support a company that does that.

 

[candyx]

On the matter of batteries, I love my iPhones, iPads. I’m not the one who has to update to the latest and greatest. What’s the weak link in these devices? The freaking lithium batteries.

If I lay my iPhone in the sun on a 75°f day, it’ll likely shut off because of the solar heat-sink here at 7200 feet. If I’m out hunting and it’s below 0°f my phone has, and will, shut off.

Parenthetically, now on X maps has decided that we need to depend on these devices for our lives while hunting, as they have stopped supporting Garmin devices in favor of phones. I have always used my Garmin as my primary GPS while hunting. Keeping the phone tucked away, for an emergency call that might be needed.

Right now I’m typing on an iPad I purchased two years ago. The battery has already lost significant amount of life. The cost to replace the battery becomes almost not worth it. Let it go and upgrade before the software makes it obsolete.

I have a 2005 Silverado sitting outside w/ 75,000 miles and has been extremely well cared for, even though it has not been garage kept. If that were an EV, I would be long past looking at a new 30+ thousand dollar battery. If it were a Tesla, most likely by now, the software would be obsolete anyway…..

Don't get me started on battery life because for some strange reason they always die right before.....

 

[Holliday]

If you use your device and charge them constantly the batteries die. This is why Teslas at some point have to have their batteries changed.

The freaking Napoleon complex every time an iPhone is mentioned, is really something to witness. Somehow imagining that Google and Samsung are the saints here, is beyond comprehension.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

A thermal runaway is an incident where one exothermal process triggers other processes, finally resulting in an uncontrollable increase in temperature

You just described combustion...or...fire.
When I burned shit for a living, we had a term for thermal runaway too, autogenous. At that point it burns until there's nothing combustible left to burn.
All means same thing.
The shit caught on fire, and burn up.
Except when electric cars burn, they are almost impossible to extinguish.

 

[Big Phish]

Pretty soon the toxic wastes they produce when spontaneous burning will make the train wreck in East Palestine look like child play.

 

[fpgt72]

Pretty soon the toxic wastes they produce when spontaneous burning will make the train wreck in East Palestine look like child play.

I have shot a great many old RC batteries, and I can tell you it smells very bad, and there is a great deal of smoke.

Yet another thing I should film.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Depends, is Bill Gates a competitor?

Did it have dirt on the Clintons?

Sirhr